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[RumblePuff]

Anyone post this?

China’s Economic Daily News reports that Microsoft is having yield issues with Xbox One components

7 million sounds like a lot of units considering Sony announced over 1 million pre orders and can't guarantee them anymore.

 

[DodgerSan]

Is he being serious when he talks about accents? In the UK, you only need travel 25 miles up the road to hear widely different accents, broad Lancastrian, Yorkshire, Souse, Mancs, then onto Geordies, Cockney's, Brummies etc.

Edit - of course that could just mean Kinect cannot understand the strong British regional accents, whereas a living, breathing human can often tell the difference from town to town, nevermind whole regions.

This is absolutely true. I only need travel about 8 miles to hit accents I have a really hard time understanding. How is kinect is going to deal with Welsh, Glaswegian, Lancashire etc if it can't handle Swiss accented French?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

I think this is as close to a proper summarized translation as we can get for right now of that yield article

Microsoft has recently lowered its Xbox One shipment forecast for 2013 from seven million units originally to 6.2 million due to poor yield rates of the device's camera module, optical disc drive (ODD) and related assembly, according to a Chinese-language Economic Daily News (EDN) report citing market watchers.

Related upstream suppliers such as Global Unichip, Nuvoton Technology and Newmax, are expected to be impacted by the lower shipments, the report added.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130827PB201.html

 

[Iacobellis]

Problems with the Blu-Ray drives? Is it actual errors or just not meeting demand? I remember the PS3 was delayed because of a similar issue.

 

[keit4]

Wow. My grip on truthfulness was that tenuous?

Perhaps, it could be taken at face value that we are telling the truth. I haven’t been up here posting spin or BS. I’ve been pushing hard to be transparent in how we talk about what’s going on with the platform. And I’m clear when I can’t comment on things.

Yet, somehow since this truth doesn’t jibe with the popular belief online, we are being dishonest. I get that we’ve had a rough few months, but at some point I’d like to think we get the benefit of the doubt, at least on things that make sense logically. You know, Occam’s Razor and such.

Here’s truth:

There never has been any sort of yield or performance issues with our GPU/ESRAM/KINECT/ETC. It’s simply not true, and I’ve heard the rumors online so often I actually went to the silicon engineers to ask them again. Our HW program (knock-on-wood) has been on schedule and again, we’ve had the opportunity to increase performance even later in the program. You don’t have yield issues then upgrade the clock speed by 6%. Again, simple logic here.

Second, if we were having yield issues – why did our country delay not include markets like the US, Canada, or UK? Those represent the vast majority of our volumes. Anyone can look at GFK Chart-Track and see the volumes in the regions that slipped. Here’s an assignment for the GAF Detectives: go look at historical sell-thru rates of consoles by region, then tell me what percentage of global consoles sales were represented by those affected markets. (hint: it’s a small percentage). Each and every region is important to us, don’t get me wrong, but anyone can look at those numbers and deduce it has nothing to do with volume.

I’m going to state it again, just like I said here and to OXM: The delay was localization related. Besides needing local language support, we also need to prop-up local Live, Apps, a Marketplace, and a variety of other services. We bundle that together as “localization” in messaging, but there is more to shipping in a region then text and voice translation. The offset to that, like we’ve said, X1 is region free and while that’s slightly more inconvenient, it will still allow people in the local countries to enjoy launch. Again, not something we’d be promoting if we were having issues with volume.

I’m certainly not going to change everyone’s mind, I get that. And I know there is tendency to believe there are many more diabolical things going on behind the scenes. In this case, we are being fully transparent. And FYI – we passed FCC certification back in early summer, before PS4.

Lastly – anything that was shown on a box, was shown on near-final retail HW. Our Dev Kits and Retail Units are the same.

Albert “spoonful of sugar” Penello

Thanks for the clarifications. Sadly, a lot of people here will choose to not believe you and will keep repeating the same bullshit because, you know, Microsoft is the devil.

 

[DrM]

Doubt it looks like something related though since it has the dual band ant.

I know, just dates go together so perfectly.

I think 6.2 million is a pretty great launch number. How big were previous launches (global initial allocation estimates)?

This could be number for whole launch period, now spanning from November till March (tier 2 and 3). Or maybe fiscal quarter of their fiscal year 2013...

 

[JABEE]

The Chinese reports and FCC certs seriously deserve their own thread. Alas, my babby Junior status does not allow me to create threads. Can someone make one?

Yeah. They are probably worthy of their own thread.

 

[RedAssedApe]

I think 6.2 million is a pretty great launch number. How big were previous launches (global initial allocation estimates)?

6.2 for LAUNCH? That sounds way too high. Over what period of time is that?

 

[Uno Venova]

Anyone post this?

China’s Economic Daily News reports that Microsoft is having yield issues with Xbox One components

Interesting, hard to disregard this and other insiders posts over someone high up at Microsoft who will obviously not admit any situations as serious as this.

7 million sounds like a lot of units considering Sony announced over 1 million per orders and can't guarantee them anymore.

Yeah for just 2 months of sale it does sound like too much. Still though I think Sony just stopped guaranteeing pre-orders for day 1 and still have regular PS4's for sale at every retailer.

 

[SegaShack]

Thats just speculation. If they had more units, they'd meet their original launch plans.

I think Cboat was right. I cant wait to hear about the next gen red ring if there is going to be one this year.

Why would you want to hear that consoles failed? Regardless of what system you prefer it would suck if anyone's system broke.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Thanks for the clarifications. Sadly, a lot of people here will choose to not believe you and will keep repeating the same bullshit because, you know, Microsoft is the devil.

Or because, you know:

http://udn.com/NEWS/STOCK/STO3/8122035.shtml

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130827PB201.html

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-reportedly-hit-production-woes-could-hard-164528077.html

 

[Z3M0G]

Kinect is the cause, and they refuse to sell you a console without one.

 

[Ardenyal]

Hopefully the lower yields won't result in dead units straight out of the box, again.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Or because, you know:

http://udn.com/NEWS/STOCK/STO3/8122035.shtml

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130827PB201.html

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-reportedly-hit-production-woes-could-hard-164528077.html

This. People want to cover their ears and act as if something fishy isn't going on. I'm sure Albert is a great guy, but coming in here and trying to feed us information especially after the mess with the Astroturfers isn't doing him any favors. Now we have these reports too? Yeah, I'm taking everything he says with a grain of salt until launch or more clarifications from other sources.

 

[sangreal]

Or because, you know:

http://udn.com/NEWS/STOCK/STO3/8122035.shtml

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130827PB201.html

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-reportedly-hit-production-woes-could-hard-164528077.html

Way to demonstrate the unreliability of internet news by providing 3 links that rehash 1 source. But if you're going to believe everything posted on digitimes, I guess you believe the PS4 is having shipment problems too

This. People want to cover their ears and act as if something fishy isn't going on. I'm sure Albert is a great guy, but coming in here and trying to feed us information especially after the mess with the Astroturfers isn't doing him any favors. Now we have these reports too? Yeah, I'm taking everything he says with a grain of salt until launch or more clarifications from other sources.

It's not "reports" it is one report citing anonymous "market watchers"

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Article must mean 6 million for the first 8 months or something like that because 6 million for November and December would be ridiculous. Or it might be bullshit altogether.

 

[keit4]

Or because, you know:

http://udn.com/NEWS/STOCK/STO3/8122035.shtml

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20130827PB201.html

http://news.yahoo.com/xbox-one-reportedly-hit-production-woes-could-hard-164528077.html

You provide three links with the same source. Ok. Close the thread, MS is lying.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

Ahem...

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2013/8/27/microsoft_lowers_xbox_one_shipment_forecast.htm

CBOAT strikes again.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

You provide three links with the same source. Ok. Close the thread, MS is lying.

You can acknowledge that third parties are now reporting on the yield, including sources actually physically near to the production site, or you can try to act smug. Your loss, really.

 

[keit4]

Way to demonstrate the unreliability of internet news by providing 3 links that rehash 1 source. But if you're going to believe everything posted on digitimes, I guess you believe the PS4 is having shipment problems too

B-But Cerny!

Ahem...

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2013/8/27/microsoft_lowers_xbox_one_shipment_forecast.htm

CBOAT strikes again.

And again the same source.

 

[Ricerocket]

And again the same source.

What's wrong with the source? It's fake?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Way to demonstrate the unreliability of internet news by providing 3 links that rehash 1 source. But if you're going to believe everything posted on digitimes, I guess you believe the PS4 is having shipment problems too



It's not "reports" it is one report citing anonymous "market watchers"

Digitimes PS4 article is written by the same guy that wrote the Xbox One article

Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES

 

[bigmf]

You provide three links with the same source. Ok. Close the thread, MS is lying.

We know Microsoft never lies. Well, rarely lies.

 

[sangreal]

You can acknowledge that third parties are now reporting on the yield, including sources actually physically near to the production site, or you can try to act smug. Your loss, really.

Who is their source "physically near to the production site"? Oh that's right, they don't name any sources. Meanwhile, there is someone in this thread, with a name, who is close to the production and has responded to the rumors.

 

[Uno Venova]

And again the same source.

That doesn't say the source is Digitimes.

 

[Wynnebeck]

It's not "reports" it is one report citing anonymous "market watchers"

Still doesn't affect my sentiment. I'd feel the same way if someone from Nintendo or Sony constantly came on GAF to "set the record straight" every time something negative popped up about Wii U or PS4.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Way to demonstrate the unreliability of internet news by providing 3 links that rehash 1 source. But if you're going to believe everything posted on digitimes, I guess you believe the PS4 is having shipment problems too

...

Sony's PlayStation (PS) 4 may have trouble achieving shipments of 12-16 million units in 2013 as expected, as the related upstream supply chain has not yet received any shipment instructions from the Japan-based vendor, implying a possible delay in the game console's mass shipment schedule, according to sources from the upstream supply chain.

Wait, so you actually believe Sony will have 16 million consoles in 2013? Or did you just not read what the article actually said?

Don't see anything remotely outlandish about the article. It's a rather tame report.

Edit: Wow, I didn't realize I was being roped into a BS console wars argument. The 16 million PS4 sales is ridiculous, and I never once thought it was possible. Maybe in the first year of the console's life, but by the end of the year? Are you kidding me?

 

[sangreal]

That doesn't say the source is Digitimes.

No, the EDN is the source for all of those articles. Their source in turn is listed as "market watchers"

...

Wait, so you actually believe Sony will have 16 million consoles in 2013? Or did you just not read what the article actually said?

No, I don't believe it. My point is that you don't believe that article, but you choose to believe the EDN article even though they both cite anonymous sources

 

[Guevara]

So is the real problem localizing Kinect?

 

[jond76]

Cancel next Gen, guys!

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

That doesn't say the source is Digitimes.

That article is word for word the same thing written in the Digitimes article. They just didn't source Digitimes.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

No, the EDN is the source for all of those articles. Their source in turn is listed as "market watchers"



No, I don't believe it. My point is that you don't believe that article, but you choose to believe the EDN article even though they both cite anonymous sources

You're doing a very poor job at proving why Digitimes is not trustworthy. So their anonymous source on the Sony story is A-ok, but this anonymous source is BS? What are you even getting at?

 

[Uno Venova]

That article is word for word the same thing written in the Digitimes article. They just didn't source Digitimes.

Yeah I see now, all EDN, I don't see the problem keit does though.

 

[disastermouse]

Hey guys - I know this is crazy, but won't we KNOW if there are supply constraints in about 2.5 months?

What we really need to know about are design weaknesses that may affect failure rates. Other than that, all will be known relatively shortly.

 

[3rdamention]

Welp, I think we may have run Albert off. I thought for sure he would have at least commented on those news stories.


I agree, all those links are from the same source, but the news is starting to spread, now to at least 4 sites that have been linked in this thread. I think Microsoft would like to get out in front of this story.



Actually, (this is the a ha moment) maybe that is exactly what Microsoft was doing by releasing this little "interview" with Albert Penello in the first place. It is a strange coincidence that OXM releases the information about the "REAL" reason for the delay, then this story breaks the same afternoon claiming it is something different.



Hmmmmm, dat twist.

 

[Mugatu]

Hey guys - I know this is crazy, but won't we KNOW if there are supply constraints in about 2.5 months?

What we really need to know about are design weaknesses that may affect failure rates. Other than that, all will be known relatively shortly.

We need something to argue about now though.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Welp, I think we may have run Albert off. I thought for sure he would have at least commented on those news stories.


I agree, all those links are from the same source, but the news is starting to spread, now to at least 4 sites that have been linked in this thread. I think Microsoft would like to get out in front of this story.



Actually, (this is the a ha moment) maybe that is exactly what Microsoft was doing by releasing this little "interview" with Albert Penello in the first place. It is a strange coincidence that OXM releases the information about the "REAL" reason for the delay, then this story breaks the same afternoon claiming it is something different.



Hmmmmm, dat twist.

Hmmm indeed.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Welp, I think we may have run Albert off. I thought for sure he would have at least commented on those news stories.

Or maybe posting on GAF isn't really what he does all day at his job.

 

[Bundy]

Thanks for the clarifications. Sadly, a lot of people here will choose to not believe you and will keep repeating the same bullshit because, you know, Microsoft is the devil.

Dude, please.....
I see how all Xbox Supporters here on gaf are saluting/quoting him etc.
But are you really wondering why a lot of people don't believe anything what he/MS says?
Have you listened to all the MS statements in the last couple of months, since the XBone unveil?
Have you heard that "Powah of the Cloud = 40x Xbox360" crap?
Have you seen the "Angry Joe/Major Nelson" incident?
Have you seen the "...Mattrick/buy a Xbox 360" video?
Have you seen that tweet of Aaron Greenberg regarding the XBone delay in europe, minutes prior the Xbone delay announcement?
Have you seen the "deal with it / why would I live there" tweet of the (now ex) MS exployee Adam Orth.
Have you seen the fake Kinect presentation during the XBone/E3 conference, with the clicker/switch inside the pocket/hands of the MS employee, showing us how "fast" Kinect reacts?
Have you seen their "204 GB/s ESRAM bandwith nonsense?
Remember all the DRM stuff a couple of months ago?
Remember the NSA stuff from their main department?
Should I go on with my list?

I would also add MS denying the RROD fiasco for quite some time to that list
That was bad

And now I have to believe what "MS PR guy" Albert Penello says, just because Microsoft has sent him and all the other PR guys to Neogaf, Reddit, Beyond3D, etc. to repair what they have damaged in the last couple of months?
Sorry, NO!
I have to believe all the other news sites in china, USA, europe, etc. which are telling us what we already suggested (after the europe delay, lesser launch units compared to the PS4, no released date 3 months before launch, etc.) -> they have some issues with their hardware.
As a main Xbox360 gamer this gen -> No I don't believe them and there are a lot of reasons why!

 

[SwiftDeath]

Hey guys - I know this is crazy, but won't we KNOW if there are supply constraints in about 2.5 months?

What we really need to know about are design weaknesses that may affect failure rates. Other than that, all will be known relatively shortly.

I'm curious about this

How much of a sales difference will there have to be for us to know there was a yield problem?

If it's 800,000 less because of yield issues like the article suggests how would we know it's from production problems and not sales problems?

Will we see total number shipped to retail (available for retail) etc.?

.

I would also add MS denying the RROD fiasco for quite some time to that list

That was bad

 

[avaya]

Penello, you do not get the benefit of the doubt. Ever. In business remember one thing, 'always assume they are lying to you. They ALWAYS lie to you'.

Trust is earned. You need to earn it. You have provided no evidence for your claims.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Dude, please.....
I see how all Xbox Supporters here on gaf are saluting/quoting him etc.
But are you really wondering why a lot of people don't believe anything what he/MS says?
Have you listened to all the MS statements in the last couple of months, since the XBone unveil?
Have you heard that "Powah of the Cloud = 40x Xbox360" crap?
Have you seen the "Angry Joe/Major Nelson" incident?
Have you seen the "...Mattrick/buy a Xbox 360" video?
Have you seen that tweet of Aaron Greenberg regarding the XBone delay in europe, minutes prior the Xbone delay announcement?
Have you seen the "deal with it / why would I live there" tweet of the (now ex) MS exployee Adam Orth.
Have you seen the fake Kinect presentation during the XBone/E3 conference, with the clicker/switch inside the pocket/hands of the MS employee, showing us how "fast" Kinect reacts?
Remember all the DRM stuff a couple of months ago?
Remember the NSA stuff from their main department?
Should I go on with my list?

And now I have to believe what "MS PR guy" Albert Penello says, just because Microsoft has sent him and all the other PR guys to Neogaf, Reddit, Beyond3D, etc. to repair what they have damaged in the last couple of months?
Sorry, NO!
I have to believe all the other news sites in china, USA, europe, etc. which are telling us what we already suggested (after the europe delay, lesser launch units compared to the PS4, no released date 3 months before launch, etc.) -> they have some issues with their hardware.
As a main Xbox360 gamer this gen -> No I don't believe them and there are a lot of reasons why!

Lists. Awesome.

 

[disastermouse]

Or maybe posting on GAF isn't really what he does all day at his job.

Maybe if it was his job (or someone's job), MS wouldn't have made the ass-tacular mistakes in the early launch.

 

[Guevara]

Microsoft, in particular, never deserves the benefit of the doubt.

If Kinect localization is really the problem then that's two strikes against it: price and timing.

 

[Iacobellis]

Lists. Awesome.

Lists are very awesome. It shows how much wrong a company can do in one year.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Well, before another Xbox fan tries to uselessly paint me as a Sony fanboy, I'm glad that the Xbox One has seemingly already cleared the FCC on the low, and at least has a projection of 6.2 million. Yield issues aside, that's a very respectable number of consoles, assuming this number even extends past the holiday rush. Gonna be a very crazy shopping season.

 

[EvB]

Penello, you do not get the benefit of the doubt. Ever. In business remember one thing, 'always assume they are lying to you. They ALWAYS lie to you'.

Trust is earned. You need to earn it. You have provided no evidence for your claims.

How come whenever I read a comment like that, I look at the profile and there is nothing there except a single PSN name?

There is no evidence in the contrary, it's all baseless speculation.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

So if Albert is telling the truth then Kinect is XBone's biggest problem and could mean it's holding back the platform, rather than the opposite they'll be hoping for.. Bumping up the price and causing some horrible delays are two distinct disadvantages. I hope Kinect turns out to be great in the end for them. I've yet to see any evidence that it's worth it so far however.

 

[BloodMoney]

Dude, please.....
I see how all Xbox Supporters here on gaf are saluting/quoting him etc.
But are you really wondering why a lot of people don't believe anything what he/MS says?
Have you listened to all the MS statements in the last couple of months, since the XBone unveil?
Have you heard that "Powah of the Cloud = 40x Xbox360" crap?
Have you seen the "Angry Joe/Major Nelson" incident?
Have you seen the "...Mattrick/buy a Xbox 360" video?
Have you seen that tweet of Aaron Greenberg regarding the XBone delay in europe, minutes prior the Xbone delay announcement?
Have you seen the "deal with it / why would I live there" tweet of the (now ex) MS exployee Adam Orth.
Have you seen the fake Kinect presentation during the XBone/E3 conference, with the clicker/switch inside the pocket/hands of the MS employee, showing us how "fast" Kinect reacts?
Have you seen their "204 GB/s ESRAM bandwith nonsense?
Remember all the DRM stuff a couple of months ago?
Remember the NSA stuff from their main department?
Should I go on with my list?



And now I have to believe what "MS PR guy" Albert Penello says, just because Microsoft has sent him and all the other PR guys to Neogaf, Reddit, Beyond3D, etc. to repair what they have damaged in the last couple of months?
Sorry, NO!
I have to believe all the other news sites in china, USA, europe, etc. which are telling us what we already suggested (after the europe delay, lesser launch units compared to the PS4, no released date 3 months before launch, etc.) -> they have some issues with their hardware.
As a main Xbox360 gamer this gen -> No I don't believe them and there are a lot of reasons why!

salty, but tasty

 

[SwiftDeath]

Well, before another Xbox fan tries to uselessly paint me as a Sony fanboy, I'm glad that the Xbox One has seemingly already cleared the FCC on the low, and at least has a projection of 6.2 million. Yield issues aside, that's a very respectable number of consoles, assuming this number even extends past the holiday rush. Gonna be a very crazy shopping season.

Honestly if it's only a 10% reduction due to yield issues that's not that bad imo

Thought it would've been far more severe than that considering cboats comments

Perhaps MS has significantly improved yields as of late?

How come whenever I read a comment like that, I look at the profile and there is nothing there except a single PSN name?

There is no evidence in the contrary, it's all baseless speculation.

Problem is there's no evidence in either direction

It's Albert vs Cboat (and random articles)

So we argue without any real evidence

Personally I believe yield problems are probably true

I do hope Dean Takahashi writes another book about this reveal though

I'd totally buy a copy of that