Does that make Puppeteer a high profile game too?
Also, you are joking on the bold part, right?
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Media Create Sales: Week 35, 2013 (Aug 26 - Sep 01)
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
Does that make Puppeteer a high profile game too?
Also, you are joking on the bold part, right?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Um, well... Mario is end of November? Or are we supposed to count an HD version of Wind Waker as their next big new thing?
pretty done
Member
Not enough cute moe girls.
I think the problem here is that we know who exactly who watches this shows and that´s probably 90 die hard Nintendo fans. They don´t reach gamers in general with NDs let alone a more casual oriented audience.
To me High Profile would be a release that:
1.) Had strategic importance for the publisher.
2.) Was given a window in which it was the company's primary release (like not dumped out day and date with SM3DW in a non-launch situation).
3.) Had a sizable investment for the publisher either from development and/or marketing. (Like Minecraft cost almost nothing, but Microsoft spent a lot of time advertising it.).
I would consider TW101 to be relatively high profile, especially compared to things like Rayman in Japan, but obviously not Mario or Donkey Kong profile.
It would be like what NFS is for EA versus Battlefield.
That we have seas of TW101 avatars and almost none for Puppeteer would be an example of how well each company pushed their respective games on their core fan base. The frequency of press previews near launch would be another.
1.) Had strategic importance for the publisher.
2.) Was given a window in which it was the company's primary release (like not dumped out day and date with SM3DW in a non-launch situation).
3.) Had a sizable investment for the publisher either from development and/or marketing. (Like Minecraft cost almost nothing, but Microsoft spent a lot of time advertising it.).
I would consider TW101 to be relatively high profile, especially compared to things like Rayman in Japan, but obviously not Mario or Donkey Kong profile.
It would be like what NFS is for EA versus Battlefield.
That we have seas of TW101 avatars and almost none for Puppeteer would be an example of how well each company pushed their respective games on their core fan base. The frequency of press previews near launch would be another.
It depends on the game. I can guarantee a lot more people are going to watch the ND for Pokemon, Animal Crossing, or MH4, than people watched the W101 or if they have a ND just for Chibi Robo.
If anything, Nintendo needs to do a lot more mass marketing. They get to get on Good Morning America, do a lot more late night talk show, and grant more interviews. Nintendo has an antagonistic experience with the press at times, and a lot of it is because Nintendo will just ignore the press until it serves their needs.
Maybe after doing a ND, they can give selected interviews to websites that can immediately post after the ND. But that would take more planning that they do right now where they just announce a ND and then it happens a day or two later, or they will just release a ND mini with no fore wording.
KillerTravis
Banned
So what's the excuse for Puppeteer bombing? "Lol PS3 has a shitty audience"? "SCEJ has never made a good selling game"? "Installbase is too low"?
I'd use the same reasoning as TW101 selling badly for Nintendo. The console vendor no longer cultivates that kind of audience and it would have performed better on the Wii U where games like Mario exist.
Oh boy, I remember people on this board saying 3rd parties were watching Splinter Cell's sales, if sales of Splinter Cell Blacklist keep me from getting Harvest Moon or Rune Factory U...
Splinter Cell is more likely to keep you from getting Watch Dogs 2 or Arkham 4 than Harvest Moon.
michaelius
Banned
I don't remember any succesfull platformer that sold well this generation in Japan apart from Nintendo games.
Sonic/Rayman bombed hard.
Sell better != sell great
I wouldn't expect TW101 to chart top on PS3, but I would expect it to do more than 5K.
Epic Mickey did 60K.
Hero of Legend
Member
I'm certain we'll see HM U at some point, HM has been on all Nintendo platforms since day 1. But I am curious as to why we still haven't seen a second one on 3DS... I should play more ANB...
Rune Factory U, who knows, the Wii games never did that well sadly, and Frontier was fantastic.
I'm sad to think MAQL likely won't pour support to Wii U like they did on Wii years ago. :'(
What is up with them? They've been silent since their Vita games came out, BUT they are developing High School DxD for 3DS, that's something. Now where's RF5 since RF4 sold wicked well?
Rune Factory U, who knows, the Wii games never did that well sadly, and Frontier was fantastic.
I'm sad to think MAQL likely won't pour support to Wii U like they did on Wii years ago. :'(
What is up with them? They've been silent since their Vita games came out, BUT they are developing High School DxD for 3DS, that's something. Now where's RF5 since RF4 sold wicked well?
I was sorta joking about how not all third party support has to be gone
But I would bet the real thing that's going to prevent a Harvest Moon U is Japan's apathy towards anything that isn't handheld/mobile. And once the 3DS's successor comes out, that would further make it unnecessary for smaller devs to target a console when all the handhelds are already at "HD console" level. That's one of the reasons I am very curious to see how the future pans out, because handhelds are going to have increased graphical power due to the progress of technology, they always have, and would that affect the demand for consoles in Japan. But I want to hear surround-sound clucks and moos while milking 1080p HD cows using the gamepad by touching and pulling virtual udders dammit, and Japan should want that too!As for Puppeteer and Wonderful 101, I used to simply think "if it's quirky or unique and made in Japan, it's going to appeal to the Japanese." But then I saw the Last of Us doing over 180K, Wonderful 101 bombing, now Puppeteer, and I now conclude that I can't predict what will and won't be a success in Japan.
edit: ^The handhelds will get to HD level eventually, by virtue of technological progress, and those series have a home on handhelds. So either they adapt, ... or decide to defect and go to mobile :-(
On the other hand, Klonoa Wii sold 5800 units in its first week, so you never know how badly a game can tank anywhere.
If it was Nintendo releasing Puppeteer, yeah, I'm sure it would have done much better.
Harvest Moon U is possible but I don't really seeing us getting another console one anytime soon. I'm kinda surprised that a new 3DS title hasn't been announced yet built it could be coming soon for all I know.
I don't want another HM game on a Sony device any time soon tbqh.
I don't want another HM game on a Sony device any time soon tbqh.
BlackLagoon
Member
Wouldn't be surprised if SCEE likes the title. They probably have the biggest kid/family audience of SCE's regions, and even if it won't sell huge numbers at launch it makes a nice holiday bundle with the 12 GB unit.
Isn't High School DxD that one animu where everyone gets their clothes ripped off?
I wonder why Marvelous would target the 3DS for such a game when niche stuff like that has always sold better on the Vita
Huh, you know Senran Kagura started on the 3DS and sold pretty damn well on that too? (without the anime boosting awareness)
I know Senran started on the 3DS. I used to own it when I had a Japanese 3DS.
It's just that niche titles like those sell better on PS consoles.
Yes, SCEE is pretty much the only division that's cultivated a strong family/children's audience on PlayStation platforms. Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time still charts in some European countries.
Prince Vultan
Banned
Wait, why did anyone think Puppeteer was going to sell in Japan? Something like that was never going to do decent business in that market.
Be willing to bet it does better elsewhere though. Should easily top W101 in Europe at least, as minor an achievement though that might be.
Be willing to bet it does better elsewhere though. Should easily top W101 in Europe at least, as minor an achievement though that might be.
Hero of Legend
Member
Technically Kadokawa is publishing High School DxD 3DS, so it was likely their choice to bring in MAQL obviously for the Senran Kagura team. Wonder if Tamsoft is also involved as they worked on the Senran Kagura series.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
When are we going to stop being apologists for Japanese gamers? When will we stop trotting out the tired old 'its not what they want/doesn't appeal to them' excuse? Seemingly more and more they want nothing but mobile/handheld gaming. I guess ps4 will be real litmus test.
I suspect we will see the same thing that happened on PS3 for your average Japanese dev. The resolution will increase, and there will be a few minor upgrades, but the graphics will overwhelmingly stick to mid-low PS2 level.I was sorta joking about how not all third party support has to be gone
As for Puppeteer and Wonderful 101, I used to simply think "if it's quirky or unique and made in Japan, it's going to appeal to the Japanese." But then I saw the Last of Us doing over 180K, Wonderful 101 bombing, now Puppeteer, and I now conclude that I can't predict what will and won't be a success in Japan.
edit: ^The handhelds will get to HD level eventually, by virtue of technological progress, and those series have a home on handhelds. So either they adapt, ... or decide to defect and go to mobile :-(
Most Japanese developers seem to run into a financial wall (either money to dedicate to development budget and/or potential audience size) well before they run into a technical wall, and for most studios, that wall seems to be mid-low PS2 level since about the year 2000.
Yes, the assumption in my statement there is that Nintendo would be publishing it. If they weren't, it would likely do notable worse.
Sorry I was using Garaph.
What the hell? How is anyone being an apologist? Why are you lumping handheld and mobile together?
If something doesn't have appeal, it doesn't have appeal. It isn't an excuse, it's a fact.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Every time a game bombs we make excuses as to why it bombed. I honestly hope I'm wrong about the Japanese home console market like I said I guess we'll see where the market stands once the ps4 launches.
A game bombs because of x and y. Maybe x and y is because it's a genre that sells better on handhelds than home consoles but not every game bombs because it's on a home console and not a handheld. Home consoles have no problem selling software in Japan. Just check what's #1 on this week's chart.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Reasons are excuses?
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Maybe I just have chicken little syndrome. Maybe the sky isn't falling. Like I said I hope I'm wrong. I apologize.
Now if the ps4 launch isn't amazeballs in Japan my worst fears will be confirmed
or not who knows its all just speculation
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Puppeteer seems pretty awesome on a huge install base
Jaded Alyx
Member
What will you say if western sales are also bad?
Should have been 20 bucks because it looks like it's worth 20 bucks.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
It will probably bomb but there plenty of other games selling well. I'm not really worrired about western console gaming going the way of the dodo bird at least not yet
Home consoles won't go the way of the dodo, but there are less people interested in it compared to handheld consoles. In the same way, the west is more interested in home consoles rather than handheld consoles. Nothing wrong with either, unless you try to project your preferences as the correct preference.
Since we're on the topic of the PS4 and 9/9 is almost here, I did have one topic I wanted to bring up.
So the core sales issues with our two new platforms so far are:
Wii U: Has a few big games and nothing else.
Vita: Has a constant stream of small games, but no big titles.
Now, let's say the PS4 had a "great" showing and showed new stuff about FFXV, KH3, MGS5, and Deep Down, confirmed Yakuza Ishin for PS4, and also announced Demon's Souls 2, showed Musou game for launch, and noted that they convinced Namco to make Tales of Zestiria cross-gen.
If that's all they had, I would actually consider that a bad showing, because they end up with the exact same situation as the Wii U where they only have a few big games and nothing else.
To me what they really need to do is announce 1-2 new big titles, but also be able to sit there and go "And here's 10+ other Japanese games and/or Japanese devs with PS4 games releasing in 2014!" so Japanese consumers can be confident that 1.) the PS4 has widespread Japanese support and 2.) they will have something to play on the system until the big games come out.
If they can't do that, then I think the system is going to have a hard time and we might be nearing the end of consoles being an especially notable part of the Japanese market. Reviving the PS4 two years into its lifecycle when multiple big games are out and the smaller devs all finish up with PS3 would be a great way to tank confidence and just drive even more consumers over to handhelds and mobile.
So the core sales issues with our two new platforms so far are:
Wii U: Has a few big games and nothing else.
Vita: Has a constant stream of small games, but no big titles.
Now, let's say the PS4 had a "great" showing and showed new stuff about FFXV, KH3, MGS5, and Deep Down, confirmed Yakuza Ishin for PS4, and also announced Demon's Souls 2, showed Musou game for launch, and noted that they convinced Namco to make Tales of Zestiria cross-gen.
If that's all they had, I would actually consider that a bad showing, because they end up with the exact same situation as the Wii U where they only have a few big games and nothing else.
To me what they really need to do is announce 1-2 new big titles, but also be able to sit there and go "And here's 10+ other Japanese games and/or Japanese devs with PS4 games releasing in 2014!" so Japanese consumers can be confident that 1.) the PS4 has widespread Japanese support and 2.) they will have something to play on the system until the big games come out.
If they can't do that, then I think the system is going to have a hard time and we might be nearing the end of consoles being an especially notable part of the Japanese market. Reviving the PS4 two years into its lifecycle when multiple big games are out and the smaller devs all finish up with PS3 would be a great way to tank confidence and just drive even more consumers over to handhelds and mobile.
Well, yeah, people buy games systems to use them, not so that they look pretty pretty underneath the TV. Look at the Wii U and Vita problems you had mentioned from the perspective of the consumer. It's a bad situation when you're done with or passed on the big, attractive game and you see nothing else to keep you interested. It's a bad situation when you look at the shelf and see nothing you know or care about.
True, the PS3 is still supported and will continue to be supported (Nintendo really dropped the ball on continuing Wii support; come to think of it, have they ever provided significant support after a console's final year?). In fact, the top games this week were PS3 games.
Ah, so like the "uprezzed" PS2 game moniker (or maybe even like a "Dolphinized" game, I've played Dolphinized games and they look nice). Or I seem to remember a comment about Yakuza for PS4 being an example of what can be expected from a more "niche" game that doesn't have a AAA budget. They'll look "nice enough."
But for a handheld, things such as "sprites", fixed-camera views, icons, chibi styles, etc. are acceptable, that's what I'm curious about: will the increase in hardware power and resolution affect the "handheld" style/nature of games, or will it pressure developers to present more games in a "console" style. (Crap, I've gone way off topic. Back on topic.)
How much clout does the Final Fantasy series, and JRPGs in general, have in Japan, are they the kinds of games analogous to COD/FPS's where people may buy a console to keep up with those series/types of games? Are there certain types of games analogous to how FPS's/sports games are in America where casual gamers would buy a console and keep up with those kinds of games? They're guaranteed Square's big JRPGs on the PS4 (unlike with the WiiU). But even then, I may be stereotyping Japanese tastes again. Also, there's the case of the PS3 being supported into the future, I wonder how that would affect PS4 sales.
edit:\/ yep, that's the thing, are gamers over there satisfied with those other devices (on the console front, 3DS and PS3) to the extent that some of them don't feel the need for a new console, or more specifically, won't feel the need for the PS4 at launch.
The biggest struggle the PS4 is going to have is taking away smaller games from the 3DS, Vita, mobile, and PS3 and that's probably not going to happen any time soon.
Where did you say next big new thing in your original post? All you said was new titles which means Zelda HD and Wii Fit U both count. And that's not counting Wii Party U which is still listed for holiday 2013. No idea how big those titles will be but they are new titles from Nintendo before the end of this year.