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Truth & Trolls |OT| The Brothers Were Right

F

foobarry81

Member
JennyTablina said:
It's her game, should of meant most of the work was her, but eh, this game will never be released anyway, that last update pretty much suggests all the money is gone already...? which is weird, isn't that an awful lot of money to blow super quick? Makes me laugh how they can go and say software packages are too "pricey" for this project, when the Kickstarter money is there to cover those costs anyway!
Click to expand...

They got a free Alienware laptop from Dell, and the RPGMaker license costs $60 at most or something.

That's $60 total they actually "needed".

The only artwork that she has shown so far is that cover art. And some doodles from kids, which I sincerely hope she has not paid for that. The cover art is done by 1 artist. Let's assume that guy/woman worked 2 full days or so on it. How much would that set her back? $500? $1000 maybe? It's not world class art.

So let's assume she spent $1060 on those 2. That still leaves $10,940 unaccounted for. (And that's assuming she did need $12K to ship 372 koozies, which cost maybe $1 to 1.5 on average)

Maybe she also charges for any electricity Kenzie uses, as well as the chocolate bars she eats and sodas she drinks while "working" on the game?

Maybe she had to pay the guy whose music she used for her Prologue video some royalties too? I don't know the fees for creative commons IPs, but clearly it's not going to be 1000s of dollars.

If she actually paid more artists to make in game skins or whatever, and hired programmers for any coding work that needed to be done, then how is this still a 9 year old's first RPG? She didn't even come up with the idea to make a game about truth and trolls... that was all Susan clearly.
 
M

MBison

Member
If someone makes a real detailed budget sheet based on Susan's comments, I'll post it to the kickstarter comments.
 
G

Geniuzz

Member
Creator Susan Wilson about 19 hours ago

Sorry, we overcomplicated the whole beta process. Prefinery is AWESOME but overkill for us. So look for a dropbox link to download the game (which should take you longer than 15 minutes btw). Also, I just want to thank the backers again. Kenzie didn't keep any of the money but she NEVER would have been able to make THIS game without it.

As anyone who's done a kickstarter knows, 1/2 the proceeds went to reward fulfillment & shipping (so basically Vistaprint and USPS - not any entities or products we owned or anything like that so we did not get a kickback or anything). The other 1/2 of the money went to pay for software and equipment as well as actual pay-for-hire fees to indie artists and programmers - kids and grown ups. I'm sure eventually they'll step forward and validate what I'm saying but they're a little nervous of any backlash so we're respecting their privacy. BUT AGAIN, thank you for your support and your patience.
Click to expand...

I have no words...
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Ive just been loosely folllowing this but lets see if im up to date. So this kickstarter was for her little girl to make a game. Said girl gets a free expensive laptop and just sits back drinking wine with her mother while they hire artisis and programmers to make the game?

You know what, im not even mad.
 
C

Crash55118

Member
MBison said:
If someone makes a real detailed budget sheet based on Susan's comments, I'll post it to the kickstarter comments.
Click to expand...

Kickstarter Total: $24,535.

Fees:
Kickstarter 5% = $1226.75
Amazon 5% = $1226.75
Total Fees: $2453.50
Total – Fees = $22081.50

Reward Fulfillment: Did barely any searching, and comparison. Used her own Truth and Trolls storefront for some of them, just to show how even if she wasn't sending out items at cost how her vaunted 50% spent of backer fulfillment is just plain wrong and misleading.

Level:

$15 – Koozies
Numbers Ordered: 135
Cost of Koozie on T&T = $5.99
Cost of Shipping Koozie Domestically = $2.99
Total Cost of One Koozie = $8.98

$8.98 * 135 = $1212.30

$25 - Mouse Pad
Numbers Ordered: 59
Not Offered on T&T, but going by Susan's margins, as I was able to find Koozies for about 1.50 each, so multiply by 4, and add 2.99 for shipping gave me these numbers. I also rounded to 100 as that is a quantity I could order, just to show the economy of scale involved.

Ordering from Vistaprint, didn't do any comparison shopping for best price = $374.99 for 100 + 32.34 for Cheap Shipping = $407.33

Potential Cost Of Mouse Pad on T&T = (407.33 * 4) = $1629.32
Cost of Shipping Mouse Pad = $2.99 * 59 = $176.41

$1629.32 + $176.41 = $1805.73

$30 – 2 Sided T Shirt
Numbers Ordered: 69
Cost of 2 Sided Unisex Shirt on T&T = $14.99
Domestic Shipping = $2.99
Total Cost of One Shirt = $17.98

$17.98 * 69 = 1240.62

$40 – 2 Sided Women's T Shirt
Numbers Ordered: 43
Cost of 2 Sided Girl Shirt on T&T = $14.99
Domestic Shipping = $2.99
Total Cost of One Shirt: $17.98

$17.98 * 43 = $773.14

$50 – Embroidered Had
Numbers Ordered: 8
Again Not Sold on T&T, so doing my own searching, using LOGO Sportswear.com
Cost of 1 Hat = $26.95
Cost of Shipping Hat = $4.99
Total Cost of Hat = $31.94

$31.94 * 8 = $255.52

$75 – Embroidered Hoodie
Numbers Ordered: 13
Not Sold on T&T, so grabbed prices from Zazzle
Cost of 1 Hoodie = $42.95
Cost of Shipping Hoodie = $9.99 (Ball Park, but bigger thing)
Total Cost of Hoodie = $52.94

$52.94 * 13 = $688.22

So, even with terrible Margins that would see money back in Susan's pocket on both the Koozies and Mousepads (And probably both the TShirts as well), we have:

After Fees, Total Money in Susan's pocket (because Kenzie didn't keep a dollar remember)

$22081.50 / 2 (As per her post) = $11040.75

$11040.75
- $1212.31 (Koozies)
- $1805.73 (Mouse Pads)
- $1240.62 (Unisex Tshirts)
- $773.14 (Girls Tshirts)
- $255.52 (Hats)
- $688.22 (Sweat Shirts)

Total Left: $5065.21

Which is Approximately Half of the $11k supposedly spent on Order fulfillment. And With things actually sold at cost, that number would have gone down. Now lets even make a worse case scenario and add $5 per order shipped out, because Who knows? The Post Office is confusing. $5 * 327 = $1635. So Once again, not even close to being half.

Maybe if didn't use all the money to create a storefront and stock a bunch of poorly designed T shirts she would have been able to get out with paying far far less then her supposed $11k investment in backer fulfillment.
 
F

foobarry81

Member
Crash55118 said:
After Fees, Total Money in Susan's pocket (because Kenzie didn't keep a dollar remember)

$22081.50 / 2 (As per her post) = $11040.75

$11040.75
- $1212.31 (Koozies)
- $1805.73 (Mouse Pads)
- $1240.62 (Unisex Tshirts)
- $773.14 (Girls Tshirts)
- $255.52 (Hats)
- $688.22 (Sweat Shirts)

Total Left: $5065.21

Which is Approximately Half of the $11k supposedly spent on Order fulfillment. And With things actually sold at cost, that number would have gone down. Now lets even make a worse case scenario and add $5 per order shipped out, because Who knows? The Post Office is confusing. $5 * 327 = $1635. So Once again, not even close to being half.

Maybe if didn't use all the money to create a storefront and stock a bunch of poorly designed T shirts she would have been able to get out with paying far far less then her supposed $11k investment in backer fulfillment.
Click to expand...

This, sir, is a true work of art! :)

Susan should hand you over the remaining $17.000 for doing her budget properly for her.
 
D

Diggeh

Unconfirmed Member
Is it worth missing the opportunity to play the "game"? Someone here needs to experience this amazing AAA
whatever scraps they're forced to throw together last minute
title!
 
C

Crash55118

Member
MBison said:
So just to verify crash are you cool with me posting that to the page?
Click to expand...

Sure, go for it.

It even uses her store front costs for a number of the items, so it is a worst case price scenario for backer fulfillment.

You'll probably get banned and or have her make up a new excuse.

The thing is it took like 15-20 minutes. It wasn't like I had to sit down and toil trying to figure it out. Her whole demeanor towards the thing, especially the line about half of just about every kickstarter going to fulfillment is something she is making up on the spot. A poorly managed kickstarter may spend half its money on the backer fulfillment, but one that is well thought out and realized shouldn't.

Honestly if she even put a little bit of truth into her arguments, or heck even apologized for how she ran the campaign, I'd gain some respect for her. Things she probably used the excess budget for: Travel Expense, Web Design, Extra Clothing to stock her online store, licensing a release platform that now is not going to be used, etc etc. This coupled with the paying people for coding and art in a program that has built in solutions for just about all scenarios one could encounter over a 15 minute game is a tad crazy.

Again, to make it clear. I harbor no ill feelings towards Kenzie, or her wanting to make an RPG. The premise of the project, although against Kickstarter rules, was not what I have a problem with. The real problem was how the campaign was/is being run by Susan, with little to no oversight whatsoever, with a focus on buzzwords to garner sympathy and cash. The appearance at Indiecade is an insult to just about every indie developer that has actually run a crowd funding campaign.

EDIT: Just because I wanted to make sure I was looking at Vistaprint as that is what she used, the numbers adjusted for Vista Print, for Hats, and Sweatshirts would be (Hats: $148.46) (Sweatshirts: $644.17), less shipping, so (Hats With Shipping = $188.38, and Sweatshirts With Shipping = $774.04, but vs my combined estimate listed earlier it is roughly $20 more (962.42 > $943.74)
 
M

malfcn

Member
How can a successful entrepreneur and business woman that hangs out with Warren Buffet be so incompetent when it comes to releasing a 15 minute long game? At this point it has turned into a bad sci-fi movie where you may have been able to suspend disbelief, but then everything is just way too wrong.

Possible counter:
It's Kenzie's game; And you will let her completely fail?
That goes against all guiding principles Susan attempts to champion.
Letting Kenzie and the game fail in essence mean Susan is a failure on many levels.

She's either terrible for scamming people, or a terrible with this venture.
 
F

foobarry81

Member
Awesome tweet by Susan.

FundHer ‏@FundHer 9h

Want to know how to take your website design from blah to GREAT? The key secrets that designers know: http://bit.ly/16l49CU via @Skillcrush
Click to expand...

Now if only she applied that philosophy to truthandtrolls.com and pinkiesquare.com.

Anyway, apparently that IndieCade panel was today.

Crowdfunding: Do you feel lucky?
"Friday, October 4, 3 pm to 4pm, Festival Sessions A"

Any impressions?
 
M

MBison

Member
Apparently the beta is available for backers. I'd download and post impressions but I'm out of town. I assume I could give you the link ... I don't want Scamsun to come after me though ;)

Want the link?
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
MBison said:
Apparently the beta is available for backers. I'd download and post impressions but I'm out of town. I assume I could give you the link ... I don't want Scamsun to come after me though ;)

Want the link?
Click to expand...

please tell me she zipped the desktop shortcut instead.
 
D

Diggeh

Unconfirmed Member
It's located under C:\Users\Suscam\My Documents\My Scams\OperationKoozieGrrlBigBuxx\Anti Haterade\truthntroll.exe.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
Bored:
E7d0mDk.jpg
 
F

foobarry81

Member
Need to read the instructions for a 15 minute game? Seriously, Joseph. :)

The Art Factory about 10 hours ago

very fun awesome game... i played it today.. it's very interesting. i need to read the instructions, didn't but still had fun.. especially i like the dog... and glad i found the kitchen too.. i got hungry because the art reminded me of home.. really nice.
Click to expand...

Anyway, he doesn't make a lot of sense, as usual, but it seems they got someone, or several people to make "Kenzie's first game" for her.
 
M

MBison

Member
So are we really coming to the conclusion that even Kenzie making this game was a scam? Cause if so wow. Lulz. So pathetic.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
What software and equipment were needed?

RPG Maker - free
Alienware laptop courtesy of Dell - free

That $11k sure vanished like a fart in the wind.
 
A

arit

Member
MBison said:
So are we really coming to the conclusion that even Kenzie making this game was a scam? Cause if so wow. Lulz. So pathetic.
Click to expand...

Code: 
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T

Tertullian

Member
I just want to say that I appreciate all you GAFers who made this thread possible. It's a goldmine.

Now I want IndieCade stories!
 
I

inm8num2

Member
Tertullian said:
I just want to say that I appreciate all you GAFers who made this thread possible. It's a goldmine.

Now I want IndieCade stories!
Click to expand...

Don't thank GAF - thank Susan, the brave entrepreneur who used her daughter as a shield against criticism multiple times really put herself out there.
 
N

Nokterian

Member
Computers are STUPID machines that ONLY do what YOU tell them.
It’s Easier to Train a Computer than a Dog!
Quick & easy commands to program your computer so it does what you want today.
Click to expand...

incredulous.gif
 
F

foobarry81

Member
NervousXtian said:
That's hilarious.. she didn't want to use custom sprite work because she was too attached to the built in sprites... yeah.. sure I believe that.
Click to expand...

I can understand that a 9yo old got attached to "her own creations", even though they are just built in sprites. But part of the process of making a game (and basically creating anything), which Kenzie refuses to learn here, is to work with input from other people. Unless you make the game on your own, which clearly Kenzie couldn't.

Anyway, the "artwork" delivered by the 14yo (probably the daughter of troll-turned-believer LC from KS forum) is rather poor compared to what was readily available in RPGMaker.
But obviously Susan couldn't just say that to LC, which is why she probably chose to create this... well... this booklet.

Again just very poor handling of this situation by Susan.

And so now this woman is going to write a manual/guide for (I assume) kids to "train" their computer? Did she just lay out the seeds for her next Kickstarter?

"Hello, I'm Kenzie and I'm 10. I just SUCCESFULLY created my first EPIC RPG, but now I need $829 to teach other GIRLS how to work with their computers... because my BROTHERS say I can't and I need to prove them WRONG."

This is such a train wreck.
 
S

SenshiManny

Banned
I've been following this story on and off since the summer and I must say it has been pretty entertaining(or sad) thus far. Surprisingly, I too got a link to the 'beta'. Currently downloading it now.
 
M

MBison

Member
Yeah the update commented how bloated it was. Probably inflated to actually look important. Imagine it can be compressed to like 12 mb.

Yes we need a play by play!
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
just a teaser

i6KLu1go4hnwN.png

jbdjgsmBrmDIjC.png

House shakes. sees HUGE hole in parents room. goes to forbidden basement. finds secret switches on statement. finds room where parents are. they are turned to stone.
runs back upstairs to tell nana what happened. Something is off with the Nana. she's too cool. she's obviously not herself and probably keeping a secret from the kids. alex tells them she will go get help. because she's a girl and she wants to show them she can do it.


I'm literally shaking as i play this game.
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
got done talking to nana and told her i would go find help at clover city. everyone seems to be oblivious to her scream and shout.

jbxGjekEmzAbYA.png

jjqvwCNfymAj8.png

jbtkrj7dMlbj0L.png


this about sums up some people in this thread. ;P JK

i came to Clover City. for help. I was suppose to meet up with Elder Wilson who could shed light on this.
 
V

Vibranium

Banned
DMPrince, if you had the equipment you could post a chapter walkthrough on Youtube! Maybe Susan should give Tobuscus a copy of T&T and then she'd really make bank off of his mindless followers.
 
D

Dead Prince

Banned
now that alex have joined up with Trinity, Fallon, Sage, and Dell, they will start their journey at the break of *Dawn* ahem ahem. i mean 6 am.

Kenzie have graced us with some french. i am blessed.

jboFsk9tc08AsF.png


Vibranium said:
DMPrince, if you had the equipment you could post a chapter walkthrough on Youtube! Maybe Susan should give Tobuscus a copy of T&T and then she'd really make bank off of his mindless followers.
Click to expand...
I could. but it's all about first hand experience. watching a video of someone playing is different from actually playing it yourself. one must understand how fulfilling it is to actually be playing the game. you will understand what i''m saying when you guys get your hands on the game.

overworld

jZVerbKuzBuL6.png
 
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