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EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"

I

Ishan

Junior Member
mouzaihem said:
As someone proudly purchasing the xbone at launch (I see no reason to get the PS4 right now with its launch lineup, friends going with xbone, have had a profile for a long time on XBL, etc.) I will not say the X1 is more powerful than the PS4 (I understand hardware), or that there is no difference between the two. The PS4 is clearly the stronger system, however I do not believe that sub 1080p will be a generation long issue for MS, nor do I believe multiplats will be an issue (not saying they won't look better on the PS4 than the xbone).

To me, the real power struggle happens when Sony's 1P studios take advantage of the hardware given to them, then what does MS do? Sure, T10 will make beautiful racing games, and 343 will make a beautiful Halo game, but then what, then who? It's then that MS will have to deal with the power difference between the two, it's at that point in my opinion that even your average Joe will notice the difference in power between the two consoles. MS will really need to offer some great software, including 1P games, or they will hit a wall first few years during the generation.

It's funny because it is the opposite of what happened with the x360, the easier system to develop for at launch of the current generation, had the better architecture, had the great games, but then died off with exclusives and such last few years, while Sony has done the opposite. Now MS has the weaker console, and better come up with a way to offer some great software during these first few years like Sony's 1P studios almost surely will.

And I know they have Ryse, which looks fantastic (even at 900p) but Crytek isn't going to keep shelling out exclusives to MS, and Ryse has a lot to prove gameplay wise still. Same with DR3, great game at launch for MS, and nice to have it as an exclusive (like Titanfall-even if it is most likely a timed exclusive) but it's 1P studios that shine through a generation.
Click to expand...

im a playstaion person and i totally approve of this post . Nice to see a fellow junior make a good post on why he is choosing xbox. Acknowledge its flaws while being level headed about launch titles and titalfall.
 
D

Daeva

Banned
TheCloser said:
This is not next gen. The only next gen looking game on the Xbox 1 is Ryse. Unfortunately, the gameplay is shallow. Everything else just looks like a 360 game running at a higher resolution. A prime example of this is Titanfall. The gameplay looks amazing but the graphics look no better than call of duty. I will only be buying next gen looking games for my next gen consoles. Devs can take their cross gen games elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I totally agree man. I am not paying 400 to 500 for games that look like that. Those facking jaggies will burn my eyes. I mean, Warhawk had 4xMSAA on PS3 and many games on 360 had it as well or at least 2x. MSAA needs to come back or someone like Guerrilla needs to get that hybrid solution rolling. I don't care what you have to do. Reduce the graphics. IQ is ruining games for me on consoles.
 
D

Daeva

Banned
Ishan said:
im a playstaion person and i totally approve of this post . Nice to see a fellow junior make a good post on why he is choosing xbox. Acknowledge its flaws while being level headed about launch titles and titalfall.
Click to expand...

If Ryse bombs, it should not, then Crytek isn't going to be giving any more exc to the bone. They are already feeling some heat.
 
NoMoreTrolls

NoMoreTrolls

Banned
Tabular said:
This does not look like 2x MSAA. Not for a second.

MgZVRbV.png
Click to expand...

Wow. Holy shit that looks way worse than I had thought. Before today I literally hadn't seen anything of this game outside of pictures on my phone and the E3 conference. But wow. I'm so fucking close to cancelling my Forza preorder and just using DriveClub to wait until GT6. (Keeping Dead Rising 3, though. Shit looks boss).

I know cancelling based on graphics seems odd, but... GT6 is seriously right around the corner, and if I have a free racer in the meantime to tide me over, I think I could probably do without. I was originally getting Forza in part for the car porn, even though I'm sure the game will still play well. Fuck.

EDIT: Derp banned site. Just tried to post an image of my Amazon preorder page as proof that I have it preordered to preempt salty posts.
 
D

Daeva

Banned
NoMoreTrolls said:
Wow. Holy shit that looks way worse than I had thought. Before today I literally hadn't seen anything of this game outside of pictures on my phone and the E3 conference. But wow. I'm so fucking close to cancelling my Forza preorder and just using DriveClub to wait until GT6. (Keeping Dead Rising 3, though. Shit looks boss).

23u7st4.png


I know cancelling based on graphics seems odd, but... GT6 is seriously right around the corner, and if I have a free racer in the meantime to tide me over, I think I could probably do without. I was originally getting Forza in part for the car porn, even though I'm sure the game will still play well. Fuck.
Click to expand...

Why is canceling based on graphics odd? I won't even attempt to play a game without proper anti-aliasing anymore. I mostly supersample. But I don't need that for games on consoles. What I also don't need is a facking jaggy mess of a game on my 42 inch.
 
C

CLEEK

Member
Dynze said:
IMO, I think people are expecting too much from launch titles.
Click to expand...

No, they're just expecting an obvious generational leap.

I think in motion, Forza 5 and Drive Club will look the business. In stills and YouTube videos, they both look pretty shonky and just like shiny PS3/360 games.
 
D

Dynze

Banned
SPE said:
No, they're just expecting an obvious generational leap.

I think in motion, Forza 5 and Drive Club will look the business. In stills and YouTube videos, they both look pretty shonky and just like shiny PS3/360 games.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you there. We need to have the final version of the games in front of our own eyes to see how big the leap is.
 
Asherdude

Asherdude

Member
Wow. The tread is still going on. Why don't people just say that a Radeon 7790 (XB1) cannot keep pace with a Radeon 7870 (PS4). It won't work, no matter how you spin it.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
mouzaihem said:
As someone proudly purchasing the xbone at launch (I see no reason to get the PS4 right now with its launch lineup, friends going with xbone, have had a profile for a long time on XBL, etc.) I will not say the X1 is more powerful than the PS4 (I understand hardware), or that there is no difference between the two. The PS4 is clearly the stronger system, however I do not believe that sub 1080p will be a generation long issue for MS, nor do I believe multiplats will be an issue (not saying they won't look better on the PS4 than the xbone).

To me, the real power struggle happens when Sony's 1P studios take advantage of the hardware given to them, then what does MS do? Sure, T10 will make beautiful racing games, and 343 will make a beautiful Halo game, but then what, then who? It's then that MS will have to deal with the power difference between the two, it's at that point in my opinion that even your average Joe will notice the difference in power between the two consoles. MS will really need to offer some great software, including 1P games, or they will hit a wall first few years during the generation.

It's funny because it is the opposite of what happened with the x360, the easier system to develop for at launch of the current generation, had the better architecture, had the great games, but then died off with exclusives and such last few years, while Sony has done the opposite. Now MS has the weaker console, and better come up with a way to offer some great software during these first few years like Sony's 1P studios almost surely will.

And I know they have Ryse, which looks fantastic (even at 900p) but Crytek isn't going to keep shelling out exclusives to MS, and Ryse has a lot to prove gameplay wise still. Same with DR3, great game at launch for MS, and nice to have it as an exclusive (like Titanfall-even if it is most likely a timed exclusive) but it's 1P studios that shine through a generation.
Click to expand...

Great post, and yes it's gonna be a long generation


SPE said:
No, they're just expecting an obvious generational leap.

I think in motion, Forza 5 and Drive Club will look the business. In stills and YouTube videos, they both look pretty shonky and just like shiny PS3/360 games.
Click to expand...

That day/night transition in Drive Club looks stunning even on YouTube
 
M

miDnIghtEr20C

Banned
TheCloser said:
This is not next gen. The only next gen looking game on the Xbox 1 is Ryse. Unfortunately, the gameplay is shallow. Everything else just looks like a 360 game running at a higher resolution. A prime example of this is Titanfall. The gameplay looks amazing but the graphics look no better than call of duty. I will only be buying next gen looking games for my next gen consoles. Devs can take their cross gen games elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I'll take amazing gameplay over amazing graphics all day long.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
That picture looks like it was taken from a compressed video..

Here's the picture with the contrast up.

forzapeg.jpg


I circled some massive macroblocking.
 
T

Tabular

Banned
dIEHARD said:
That picture looks like it was taken from a compressed video..

Here's the picture with the contrast up.

forzapeg.jpg


I circled some massive macroblocking.
Click to expand...

I took it from the highest quality direct feed footage available. Compression does not create aliasing btw.
 
D

djkeem

Unconfirmed Member
I'm sure forza will look better over time. I think they are rushing to meet deadlines. i mean don't you have to basically download like half the game when you buy it.
 
S

Sword Of Doom

Member
viveks86 said:
It doesn't. This video had me really underwhelmed. The Prague footage was better in every single way.
Click to expand...

Then I think it's the 60fps. Cause I haven't seen any really good quality footage from Forza but every video I've seen has me thinking "this game looks good". I think it's the fact that it's running so damn smooth that makes it seem that way.
 
M

mintylurb

Member
Kagari said:
Wow, that Forza image looks bad man...
Click to expand...

Considering it's 60fps at 1080P, I think it looks pretty good. They have to balance things out and x1 is good at that.
1080P at rock solid 60fps or Less than 1080P and/or 60 fps with more detail. It's a driving game so I'll take rock solid 60fps at 1080P any day.
 
V

viveks86

Member
mintylurb said:
Considering it's 60fps at 1080P, I think it looks pretty good. They have to balance things out and x1 is good at that.
1080P at rock solid 60fps or Less than 1080P and/or 60 fps with more detail. It's a driving game so I'll take rock solid 60fps at 1080P any day.
Click to expand...

5vpuwas9f2t32tb0_580.jpg
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
If that Forza 5 pic is indicative of what the game actually looks like... goddamn Microsoft is in trouble.


It can't look that bad. Turn 10 is really talented, large and well funded. It can't look like that.
 
C

CLEEK

Member
famousmortimer said:
If that Forza 5 pic is indicative of what the game actually looks like... goddamn Microsoft is in trouble.

It can't look that bad. Turn 10 is really talented, large and well funded. It can't look like that.
Click to expand...

There's a reason why it can look like that. Well, 1080 reasons, anyway.
 
Asherdude

Asherdude

Member
famousmortimer said:
If that Forza 5 pic is indicative of what the game actually looks like... goddamn Microsoft is in trouble.


It can't look that bad. Turn 10 is really talented, large and well funded. It can't look like that.
Click to expand...
Don't forget that Microsoft's original goal was to make a voice activated DVR that would play games.
 
V

viveks86

Member
Sword Of Doom said:
Was the first picture just super compressed? Or was it an older build of the game?



It does but that first picture was just awful
Click to expand...

Probably a combination of both. To be fair, the macro-blocking is definitely there. But so is the aliasing. This is a launch title, so last minute jumps in quality are expected. But then, it's an established franchise with an established engine. In any case, the aliasing isn't what bothered me (I'm sure they'll figure a way to correct that at the very least). But I found everything else in the video so... flat! I'm sounding like I'm bipolar aren't I? Sigh... Such mixed feelings!
 
Square2015

Square2015

Member
Maybe a ridiculous question from someone stuck in the 90s but can we get a "bittage" comparison of each consoles CPU?? I guess we're in MEGA-bits now right? Or giga-bits...?
 
S

Snubbers

Member
Skeff said:
X360bandwidthdiagram.jpg

For instance on XB1 it would drop a potential bandwidth from 140gb/s down to 68gb/s for a drop of over 50% (and around 60% slower than PS4), compared to the drop in the 360 which would only be from 32 to 22, which is around a 30% drop (and around the same as PS3)
Click to expand...

I don't get that relative ESRAM to DDR3 bandwidth is a key factor, that doesn't make sense as to why the XB1 is worse as a system then the 360 and couldn't use tiled deferred rendering. That sounds like the wrong metric to me.

For example, lets say you split your 1080p frame into 4, and went for 1080p30 and you somehow filled all 32MB with each of the 4 tiles, that would be 32*4*30 (*2 as you have to save the current tile from ESRAM to DDR3 and load the next tile into ESRAM from DDR3). That is 7.6GB/s (around 11%).. of your frame time spent copying.. But once in ESRAM, you then have a theoretical 272GB/s (204 + 68) of bandwidth to the system, so the CPU can be doing other stuff while the ESRAM is being used by the GPU.. for the other 89% of the rendering time..


Also further in that thread it is clarified by Kagari that a Japaese developer was having similar Esram issues.
Click to expand...
I quoted his post in my posts, and I agree that ESRAM is cited as a problem, but he also uses the statement "If MS makes this transparent in the API" which sounded like it was an API issue rather then hardware, but I also support it could be either.
 
T

Tabular

Banned
viveks86 said:
Probably a combination of both. To be fair, the macro-blocking is definitely there. But so is the aliasing. This is a launch title, so last minute jumps in quality are expected. But then, it's an established franchise with an established engine. In any case, the aliasing isn't what bothered me (I'm sure they'll figure a way to correct that at the very least). But I found everything else in the video so... flat! I'm sounding like I'm bipolar aren't I? Sigh... Such mixed feelings!
Click to expand...

Ya, this could very easily be ironed out before launch. It just looks a lot worse than the e3 footage so I was quite shocked.
 
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