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Xboxone Resolutiongate (Eurogamer)

thought this comment on GB was spot on
http://www.giantbomb.com/videos/bombin-the-a-m-with-scoops-and-the-wolf-11-01-2013/2300-8147/
kmT6UKX.png


This is after Patrick said it wasn't worth a news story because he doesn't care because he doesn't have a 1080p set, along with Brad saying "normal" customers don't care (well, who exactly is GB targeting?).

This is a great post and really hits the nail on the head.

The last year has been quite something.
 

VariantX

Member
Games media, if I recall, were nitpicking the hell out of the differences between ps3 and 360 and now doing it with the Wii U in comparisons with the 2005/6 hardware. Now suddenly there's a perceptable gap between these new systems which both contain similar hardware which makes it easier and fairer to judge performance between them and now it suddenly doesn't matter? The fuck just happened in the past two weeks?
 

nib95

Banned
This is a great post and really hits the nail on the head.

The last year has been quite something.

Basically, don't trust most (not all) of the gaming media, especially don't trust Microsoft PR, and do trust GAF insiders. Because it's been our insiders that have been right about nearly everything from day one of this farce. Oh and trust maths, reality and logic as well.
 
The weird part is, an overwhelming amount of people (including journalists) actually at the BF4 event in Stockholm said that the PS4 version clearly looked better in person. The Eurogamer article even points this out. (I say "overwhelming" because at least one said they were nearly indistinguishable, but we all know who that is [if you don't, just take a wild guess]).

Then all of these editorials come out from people who apparently weren't even there and they're all "well no biggy, it's not even noticeable, you'd have to be a pixel counter lol"

I noticed this as well. Jack Fraggs (YouTube commentator) said he definitely noticed the PS4 version of BF4 looked noticeably better, and he made a point of saying that was the consensus opinion among the people at the event.
 

nib95

Banned
I noticed this as well. Jack Fraggs (YouTube commentator) said he definitely noticed the PS4 version of BF4 looked noticeably better, and he made a point of saying that was the consensus opinion among the people at the event.

Digital Foundry said the same thing. Seems most journalists that think there isn't or won't be a noticeable difference are the one's that who haven't actually compared the two games running side by side. I don't mean on shitty compressed video's online, but actually in real life. Those who have seen them running seem to have formed the consensus that the PS4 version is noticeably better looking.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I think it's pretty obvious that there is a widespread xbox preference in the western media. Now I don't know why they're like that, I seriously doubt MS has the majority of the media paid off, but I don't know how you could argue there's not a strong preference when you add up all the bullshit like this from all of the major outlets over the course of the generation.

I think it's a misguided attempt to seem fair and balanced. If they showed as much excitement for the PS4 and vitriol for XBO as so many of us do they would be criticized for being biased. The noncommittal "Wait for more info" and "only matters to a certain few" comments makes it seem like they're gathering more information when really they're just trying to avoid posting facts that might get them cut off from prerelease materials. I think Microsoft is more likely to pull something like that than Sony so they're probably more afraid of backlash from them.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
I think it's a misguided attempt to seem fair and balanced. If they showed as much excitement for the PS4 and vitriol for XBO as so many of us do they would be criticized for being biased. The noncommittal "Wait for more info" and "only matters to a certain few" comments makes it seem like they're gathering more information when really they're just trying to avoid posting facts that might get them cut off from prerelease materials. I think Microsoft is more likely to pull something like that than Sony so they're probably more afraid of backlash from them.

Somebody said it's the Wolf Blitzer, "everybody wins" poll situation. I think that plays a huge role in it.
 
What the hell are they feeding MS execs with?, do they even realize how dumb and dishonest the WHOLE Xbox division is coming off as?... truly astounding stuff...
 

rjinaz

Member
Good summary of it all.

TotalBiscuit is the voice of reason in this madness? It's like I have entered an alternate universe. Crazy times.

Edit: He says he is disappointed with games not being 1080p and there is a difference between 720 and 1080.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
080zyuod.jpg


FUCK GOD NO

It's like Microsoft thinks that everyone who wants to buy XBO doesn't know about anything related to hardware and picture quality. Guess what guys, those are the ones that will gladly pay $500 for your console and you've burnt every bridge you've had with them.
 

QaaQer

Member
It's the same reason review scores for major titles start at a 7/10 for the most part. If the media doesn't "play ball" they don't get their fancy little early release review copies of games and they're relegated to irrelevance in a matter of months.

Does anybody know the deal with movie reviewers. Are they unionized? The same thing has never happened with movie reviews, at least in my memory. They have and continue to tear major releases a new one with no fear of anti-competitive reprisal from Hollywood. If the movie industry was like the game industry every single massive budget summer blockbuster craptacular would be a 9/10 amazing new experience with shocking visual and edge of your seat thrills.

Movie reviews aren't reliant on Movie advertizing for their livelihoods. If they were, the same shit would happen.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I think it's a misguided attempt to seem fair and balanced. If they showed as much excitement for the PS4 and vitriol for XBO as so many of us do they would be criticized for being biased. The noncommittal "Wait for more info" and "only matters to a certain few" comments makes it seem like they're gathering more information when really they're just trying to avoid posting facts that might get them cut off from prerelease materials. I think Microsoft is more likely to pull something like that than Sony so they're probably more afraid of backlash from them.

Somebody said it's the Wolf Blitzer, "everybody wins" poll situation. I think that plays a huge role in it.

See I would buy this if they actually did this stuff for Sony too but they rarely do, at least not the editors that you routinely see those kinds of defense articles or videos from. I don't claim to have a great memory but I know for a fact when Sony was fucking up like this in 06 there wasn't a mass rush to defend them and there shouldn't have been, the media did the right thing then. But they're not doing the right thing now when its the other side's turn to fuck up.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
TotalBiscuit is the voice of reason in this madness? It's like I have entered an alternate universe. Crazy times.

Edit: He says he is disappointed with games not being 1080p and there is a difference between 720 and 1080.

I haven't watched, but he is a PC gamer so he can definitely appreciate resolution properly.
 
I understand you're still spinning your wheels trying desperately to find some way to excuse your company of choice's behavior, but literally every single point of yours in this post is nonsense. Every single one. Usually a single point may be wrong, or someone is just misguided here and there. For you? Every single point is absurd.

Where to even fucking begin. Christ. I'll have to number your "points" because they're each more entertaining than the last and I think they all deserve special attention.

1. As has been said, a "smart" company plays to their strengths, not their weaknesses. Sony has won the power war. It's not up for dispute. And they won it at a $100 cheaper price (no one cares about Kinect until they justify it with actual compelling games; quaint conveniences != +$100, and you can control PS4's UI with your voice using the included headset). Every developer who has gone on record has said the PS4 is easier to develop for, has significantly more power, has way more mature tools.

Microsoft's STRENGTHS when they were designing their "all-in-one-entertainment" device was a system designed around multimedia capabilities and Kinect. That they seem so woefully unprepared to even have a compelling argument to support Kinect until next year (first flagship is coming Spring 2014) is a problem that should never have happened. A company in their position would have recognized their core goals, utilized those strengths to put distance between them and the competition and settled on a path that took them away from revealing just how inferior their system tech was. Instead, they attempted to face the problem head on by posting many articles trying to diminish the PS4's power whilst trying to exaggerate the benefits of XBO's. I'll cover this more in another point, since you actually believe Microsoft misled nobody.

2. Technically, if Microsoft would have released a system exactly as powerful as the Wii U it would have been the "most powerful console they have ever made." This is the most ridiculous non-statement ever in history. It says literally less than nothing about the system you're trying to defend. Try harder so I can be better entertained.

3. "Next-gen" does not only mean power. They could market their machine as a true next-gen machine without wading into territory they're only going to lose at (as they have endlessly since they revealed the XBO, whether your desperate fanaticism allows you to admit it or not).

4. So far, if GAF was in charge of their marketing and planning we would have saved them from a.) their embarrassing original XBO vision and the 180s after b.) their attempts to try to enter a PS4 tech war, which has led to yet more embarrassing news for them c.) resolutiongate, since we would have told Microsoft to get out ahead of it ages ago. And before you say 'b-b-but GAF hardcore blah blah fucking blah', please realize that the reason Microsoft changed was because they had abysmal pre-order numbers while Sony's were skyrocketing. Please understand that it remains the case that Sony is dominating in pre-order numbers, launch allotment, consumer interest, online auctions and much more purely BECAUSE of their horrible decisions that much of GAF would have helped them avoid. And don't even get me started in Europe. XBO is getting fucking thrashed in early indications.

But please, go on. Bubbles are cool. Live in your bubble bro.

5. You don't need to be a pixel counter to notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. You need to simply not be blind. That said, the point is not 'pixel counting.' The point is a real world illustration of the massive gulf in power. And, it must be said, the resolution was only part of the differences... in Battlefield 4, plenty of other features are different as well, all of them advantage PS4. So not only is it outputting a massive resolution gap, but it's doing it at a more consistent framerate and with more impressive effects overall. There is absolutely no way to underplay it without being obscene.

6. As has been said a million times, word-of-mouth is the #1 thing that sells people on gaming products. Word-of-mouth always starts within the hardcore gaming fans and spreads out to their family and other casuals. If Hardcore gamers begin to lament at mass that the PS4 gaming experience is simply superior on a technical level, that is going to leak out - even if those people couldn't themselves tell the difference. They will remember that their friends said it was 'worse' for one reason or another, and they will look at the sticker price, and they'll put two and two together. it doesn't take rocket science. Once again, PS4 is absolutely dominating in the word-of-mouth game. That's why it is important for Microsoft to tailor their message so as not to try to deceive or focus on their weaknesses for their primary message deliverers. We are the ones who spread out and inform.

7. I am not important to MS; millions upon millions of gamers, however, are. We spend the most average money on their products, we raise the biggest stink, we are the ones who made them even moderately successful in the first place. Without our blessing, things are simply that much harder for Microsoft. Without our approval, we go out and tell those who aren't tuned in that it's not worth it. Now it's true it's possible to do it without us, but you're increasing the odds of failure exponentially and for no reason. Since they have an alternative message that is viable and plays to their actual strengths.

8. No, they only intentionally tried to deceive hardcore gamers as to what those specs could actually do and what PS4's specs could actually do so that people who are actually ignorant about technology could be fooled into thinking the gap was tiny or insignificant. It was a lie, everyone knows it was a lie, and even Leadbetter has now had to come out and damage control for letting Microsoft's architect folks pretty much post articles filled with FUD. To deny this is simply to deny facts. Up to you.


Amir0x, are you a lawyer or something (serious question)? You always have very articulate, well-written posts that seem to shut people down right in their tracks.
 
This has to be the worst high profile pre console launch in terms of damage control, criticism, strategy and scrutiny I have ever seen. The Xbox fan in me at times has been very disappointed in Microsoft but then I think "fuck em" and just concentrate on the other things I like in gaming. Every day I expect another negative to come out and it usually does, never seen anything like it.(Even Wii U)
 

PAULINK

I microwave steaks.
Hook a Wii up to a 60" 1080p TV. Let us know how you still feel about resolution having zero effect on enjoy-ability.

This is not a fair argument. The wii is only capable of outputting 480p, so it looks like shit on my tv. I recently started playing games on my Wii U and while it does not uprez anything, it being output in a higher resolution (forget if it's 1080 or 720) makes it look much cleaner. The xbox one scaler (forgive me if i'm saying this wrong) will output at 1080p but obviously it's not native.

This is besides the point though. Probably been brought up, and I apologize if it's a retread, but honestly the comparisons I am seeing between resolutions kind of remind me of the whole DVD vs Blu ray. The content is the same, one is just notably cleaner than the other one since it is the native resolution of a 1080p television. Same thing (almost) applies to the whole 720 vs 900 or 720 vs 1080p. Noticeably the same content (and probably some performance differences here and there), just one is going to look much cleaner than the other.
 
080zyuod.jpg


FUCK GOD NO

It's like Microsoft thinks that everyone who wants to buy XBO doesn't know about anything related to hardware and picture quality. Guess what guys, those are the ones that will gladly pay $500 for your console and you've burnt every bridge you've had with them.

It's official. Microsoft thinks we're idiots. There is no other rational explanation for Aaron's tweet.
 

rjinaz

Member
This is not a fair argument. The wii is only capable of outputting 480p, so it looks like shit on my tv. I recently started playing games on my Wii U and while it does not uprez anything, it being output in a higher resolution (forget if it's 1080 or 720) makes it look much cleaner. The xbox one scaler (forgive me if i'm saying this wrong) will output at 1080p but obviously it's not native.

This is besides the point though. Probably been brought up, and I apologize if it's a retread, but honestly the comparisons I am seeing between resolutions kind of remind me of the whole DVD vs Blu ray. The content is the same, one is just notably cleaner than the other one since it is the native resolution of a 1080p television. Same thing (almost) applies to the whole 720 vs 900 or 720 vs 1080p. Noticeably the same content (and probably some performance differences here and there), just one is going to look much cleaner than the other.

Maybe it's just me because I have been watching 1080p blu-rays for years now, but I absolutely refuse to watch DVDs there is that much of a difference to me. For me it's not just about a cleaner picture, it's about my ability to even enjoy the movie in the same way. I want to see the sweat on their faces dang it. I expect it.
 
080zyuod.jpg


FUCK GOD NO

It's like Microsoft thinks that everyone who wants to buy XBO doesn't know about anything related to hardware and picture quality. Guess what guys, those are the ones that will gladly pay $500 for your console and you've burnt every bridge you've had with them.

Frankly, since the summer when Pennello tried to imply the Xbox One would actually be faster than the PS4 it has been clear that there is no line Microsoft will not cross to deceive the public and manipulate them into buying their system. Frankly, that kind of institutional dishonesty is despicable and for that reason I will never own an Xbox One.

More disturbing is the number of otherwise bright people in the press who, despite the fact that MS has consistently misled and lied to consumers all year about the Xbox One, are still willing to casually repeat MS talking points, even those as grossly wrong as "casuals don't care" or "you have to pixel count a zoomed in screenshot to even see the difference".
 

dolabla

Member
Digital Foundry said the same thing. Seems most journalists that think there isn't or won't be a noticeable difference are the one's that who haven't actually compared the two games running side by side. I don't mean on shitty compressed video's online, but actually in real life. Those who have seen them running seem to have formed the consensus that the PS4 version is noticeably better looking.

Yep, just look at the comment in the OP. Digital Foundry said the PS4 version looks more crisp and cleaner. It sounds like it's one those things you just have to see in person, and no screenshot/video is gonna do it justice.
 

QaaQer

Member
Maybe it's just me because I have been watching 1080p blu-rays for years now, but I absolutely refuse to watch DVDs there is that much of a difference to me. For me it's not just about a cleaner picture, it's about my ability to even enjoy the movie in the same way. I want to see the sweat on their faces dang it. I expect it.

.

I just watched The Shining last night and noticed a bloody hand print on one of the flapper's asses last night in the Gold Room I hadn't seen before. 1080p is great. Still looking forward to a 4k OLED someday tho.
 

viveks86

Member
080zyuod.jpg


FUCK GOD NO

It's like Microsoft thinks that everyone who wants to buy XBO doesn't know about anything related to hardware and picture quality. Guess what guys, those are the ones that will gladly pay $500 for your console and you've burnt every bridge you've had with them.

Unbelievable. This is textbook misdirection. Never thought they would be so blatantly disingenuous. Sigh...
 
There seem to be two mindsets here:

1) That the devkits were given later to Xbox One and that the gap will achieve parity soon enough as developers get used to Xbox One.

2) That the gap will continue to widen given that these launch games aren't exercising the potential of next gen hardware, and that if this is the state it is in now, it will only get worse given that developers will get more out of the PS4's potential.

I don't know which to believe.

1) is unlikely because the xbone hardware is not only more complicated, but significantly less powerful at the same time, even if you take away the development difficulty, the hardware is still inferior at multiple fronts and there's no getting around that.
 
FUCK GOD NO

It's like Microsoft thinks that everyone who wants to buy XBO doesn't know about anything related to hardware and picture quality. Guess what guys, those are the ones that will gladly pay $500 for your console and you've burnt every bridge you've had with them.
But they have datapoints! And those datapoints say that customers don't know jack about details, so it doesn't matter.

I guess those datapoints also advise them to drink their own Kool-aid.

I thought we were in batshitlandia before, but these guys are crossing the streams now.
 
I thought there was a point this gen where we stopped counting native res pixels because it stopped mattering. Didn't we finally say "what's the point? Gears (or whatever other games got ridiculed for native res) is a great game?"

The same will happen with XB1 and PS4... We'll get some great games and we'll start judging the systems on those.
The point is when those great games run noticeably better on one system than the other. The most popular and best selling games tend to be multiplats in recent years. Those will almost certainly be better on PS4 this gen. People ARE judging the systems on the games.
 
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