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Killzone: Shadow Fall launch trailer & tech trailer
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Dictator93
Member
Inferno313
Banned
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yep as RAD said they not going to put effects in there game just for the sake of it .
GG tech was made with KZ SF in mind while Crytek makes a engine for every type of game .
So everything has to be in there engine even if games don't really use it .
The whole package is bad, in my opinion; compared to Killzone 2. I really hope "Shadow Fall" is a return to where Killzone 2 left off, ESPECIALLY in the online department.
super-famicom
Member
The music for the tech video is so good.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Then Guerilla did a good job.
If they were volumetric particles I'm sure they would've been shown off in the tech trailer.
I eagerly await. Console exclusives seem to have a lot of "gif worthy" set pieces that make them look really good, but a comparison between actual effects, textures, etc is going to be interesting.
The better question is, which engine has the superior implementations? Pushing a large number of features is great, but I'm more interested in how each one looks and operates.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
The music in the tech video sounds a lot like what I remember hearing from the inFamous 2 soundtrack. Anyone know what I'm talkin about?
Dictator93
Member
As thread creator, I am equally excited. It will be in depth, interesting, and fair...
Also, contrary to what a lot of people have been saying, Cryengine adds most of its features for its games (if not almost all of them) in games and not as "general engine features". The tessellation, the water stuff, the PBR, the motion facial capture, etc...
They demo these effects as part of their games not through tech demos. It is their mantra and part of the engine design (along with real time all the time).
I'm sorry. If that's the only Killzone game you've played I wouldn't blame you for writing off the entire series.
SniperHunter
Banned
Cry engine is used by oil drilling companies and US military. It does water, grass, trees etc. The last two Crysis games had really bad art direction, but it is by far the best engine on the market.
GG cant compete with Crytek.
GG cant compete with Crytek.
It's a bit difficult to tell how detailed they are, but in actual gameplay, even off compressed video grabs, it's obvious they are more than detailed and expansive enough. Draw distance and distant textures look better than any other next gen game I've seen by several orders of magnitude. It's about getting the most practical balance, and having hyper detailed textures on shit in the far distance you're not going to notice except in super up close flyovers and zoom ins from press screenshots is utterly pointless.
shinobi602
Member
This pretty much looks better than any Crysis game in my opinion, honestly.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I think sometimes is better if they did not to tell the truth .
On PC it no problem since it's hardware not fix , consoles on the other hand always going to be give and take .
Then again Cryengine is use for whole bunch of other stuff so they have to be ahead of the game .
SniperHunter
Banned
It looks better because of the art. The vegetation looks like ass no water simulation, non interactive plants etc.
Shadow Fall has great modern shaders and a solid art direction. Like i said the last two Crysis games had really bad art.
Do you believe that Guerilla is incapable of making their own water simulation?
If they couldn't compete with Crytek they wouldn't be able to make such good looking games and their launch title wouldn't be 1080 30fps/60fps. Cry Engine has features in its tool kit that Guerilla probably hasn't yet implemented in their PS4 engine, but to say 'GG can't compete' is a little silly. The GG PS4 engine is obviously pretty good, and this is a first effort on the next gen hardware.
If they couldn't compete with Crytek they wouldn't be able to make such good looking games and their launch title wouldn't be 1080 30fps/60fps. Cry Engine has features in its tool kit that Guerilla probably hasn't yet implemented in their PS4 engine, but to say 'GG can't compete' is a little silly. The GG PS4 engine is obviously pretty good, and this is a first effort on the next gen hardware.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
I didn't preorder this game, am i screwed?
Also even if cryengine is used by oil drilling comapnaies or army its mostly used for simulations. The most a game can look good with cryengine 3 is shown by crysis 3 and k:sf matches it
secretanchitman
Member
Nah. There are plenty of copies to go around - you can still buy the game right now pretty much everywhere, including Amazon.
Dictator93
Member
Well, we shall see quite directly what is what and who is who when the thread comes out.
I hope it fosters a non-antagonistic discussion. Or just is interesting.
I am not exactly sure what you are implying with this. BUt just wait upon the thread.
No one's personal stakes are on the line here...
What's that got to do with anything? CryEngine is a public engine that anyone can licence. The Killzone engine is an in-house engine only used by GG.
Edit: Oh it's SniperHunter. Wasted 30 seconds of my life there.
ss_lemonade
Member
Not unless you can run Crysis at 120fps. I just did yesterday (barely) with my new monitor + lightboost and My God was it beautiful when I was hitting those framerates.
shinobi602
Member
I agree that Crysis 2 and 3 likely have better physics engines and like you said, plants and vegetation that react dynamically plus full water simulation, but just on a front face value, shiiiiiit Shadow Fall trumps it to me
SniperHunter
Banned
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The dynamic effects like what was linked earlier from Stalker still use sprites, it's just that sprite positions are well, volumetric, and in the ideal case also calculated dynamically so that you can interact with them. With KZ, they don't use huge amount of sprites to give the whole thing a very 'full' look, but they are affected by wind and I'm just not sure if they're affected by the objects they collide with like in the Stalker video.
If you're talking about the smoothed surface volumetrics, as far as I know only tech demos did that in realtime so far, as you need huge number of calculated points for that to look convincing.
gundamkyoukai
Member
GG has no reason to compete it's not like they going to sell there engine .
I sure if Sony wanted to they could make a engine just as good but they have no reason to.
They have both the talent and money to get it done but at end of the day PS4 still 1.8TF .
Some tech would bring it to it's knees so it best for them to build there engine around PS4 .
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Ahh, Crysis vs Killzone engine tech pissing contest. Poetically reminiscent of the last console launch.
Shadow Fall looks a lot better to me simply because of the art. I suspect Crysis 3 maxed out is pushing more advanced technology in most areas, though. CryEngine 3 is a monster and Crysis 3 does all kinds of crazy things, particularly in grass rendering, physic simulations, interior lighting/shadow, and the insane amount of POM/tessellation/DM.
Shadow Fall looks a lot better to me simply because of the art. I suspect Crysis 3 maxed out is pushing more advanced technology in most areas, though. CryEngine 3 is a monster and Crysis 3 does all kinds of crazy things, particularly in grass rendering, physic simulations, interior lighting/shadow, and the insane amount of POM/tessellation/DM.
Dictator93
Member
Nice comment and very true. Also, all these things will be tested thoroughly in the thread.
SniperHunter
Banned
Yea its a great looking game for sure. I am very impressed. Great work by GG, i am sure their new ip will look even betterI agree that Crysis 2 and 3 likely have better physics engines and like you said, plants and vegetation that react dynamically plus full water simulation, but just on a front face value, shiiiiiit Shadow Fall trumps it to me
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
You're setting yourself for disappointment LOL
No, the volumetric smoke in STALKER is a 3D fluid simulation, it's not using sprites.
Many games have sprites being affected by wind and other forces, like all Crytek games and I think also the GRAW games as well. Using high-resolution sprites certainly helps sell the particles.
What do you mean "smoothed surface volumetrics"?
The vast majority of the tech trailer made me very happy, but I have to say I do wish devs would pay more attention to Z-fighting. I noticed it almost immediately in a few of the city flyover shots. It's incredibly distracting and it really cheapens the look of the overall package. I guess the good thing is it was only noticeable to me in those sweeping pans of the city so it probably won't crop up much during actual gameplay. I was just surprised to see it in a tech trailer.
I think it is an entertaining debate. Several months back the PC hardcore enthusiasts claimed the launch games wouldn't even come close to looking as good as the best PC visuals at the time, even the prospect of 1080p, much less 60fps was mocked and laughed at. What Guerrilla Games has done here is served up copious amounts of crow, so it's no wonder certain people will come out and nit pick every little flaw at whatever opportunity they get, whilst completely ignoring to do the same on other platforms or with other games and engines. I have no doubt that many people will prefer KZ SF's visuals to Crysis 3's, which is a humongous feat in itself.
We have to remind ourselves that this is a launch game at the end of the day. Things can only get better, and better they will get.
We have to remind ourselves that this is a launch game at the end of the day. Things can only get better, and better they will get.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Sony shares tech with in the company , GG does not have to catch up alone it would be Sony WWS .
At the end of the first year Sony will have more DX 11 games out than Crytek in many different genres
Still like i said before it make no sense for them , they only making games for PS4 .
They have to build there engines around there games with PS4 hardware in mind.
and still Crytek cant catch up to the water simulation of naughty dog, running on a 8 year old hardware....hmmm, ohh, i also played crysis 3, this past week, on a 770 4GB sli, nothing mind blowing tbh
So the answer is no?
Dictator93
Member
are you comparing a global mega corporations output to that of a devloper who makes engines?
Come on man, that comparison is pretty faulty.
velociraptor
Junior Member
In all fairness Crytek have a lot of experience with engine creation. They have a really deep feature set in their engines that are only utilised by a fraction of people.
However, GG have a good track record of producing visual show stoppers.
Just take a look at Killzone 3. It looks mind boggling good. No other console shooter comes close visually.
Killzone 2 'maxed out' the PS3 but doesn't really look anywhere near as good as KZ3 from a tech perspective, even though the former might have a favourable aeasthetic (grittier, softer look). Keep in mind this is a PS3 game... lol. It shits all over what Crytek have shown on the PS3 and 360.
SniperHunter
Banned
Well said.In all fairness Crytek have a lot of experience with engine creation. They have a really deep feature set in their engines that are only utilised by a fraction of people.
However, GG have a good track record of producing visual show stoppers.
Just take a look at Killzone 3. It looks mind boggling good. No other console shooter comes close visually.
Killzone 2 'maxed out' the PS3 but doesn't really look anywhere near as good as KZ3 from a tech perspective, even though the former might have a favourable aeasthetic (grittier, softer look). Keep in mind this is a PS3 game... lol. It shits all over what Crytek have shown on the PS3 and 360.
SCEWWS do share tech though they have a LOT of inter communication and sharing of resources, so while it's not as simple as copy-paste, the point wasn't 'Sony will release more than 5 games'.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
As far as I'm aware the real time physics based tessellated water of CryEngine 3 is certainly far more advanced than Naughty Dog's water simulations in stuff like Uncharted 3.
Which has nothing to do with anything because, like most people, your gauge of "mind blowing" will be based on the overall art and visual identity of a project and not the underlying tech. A lot of people think Crysis 3 looks like arse. Tech isn't a magical paintbrush that makes crud art look amazing. But that doesn't take away from the tech that is there and how advanced it is.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Although this may sound strange, but I find the textures in KZ3 more impressive than what is shown in Shadowfall. I've noticed some pretty bad textures in SF; would have thought 8GB GDDR5 would be the death of low resolution and muddy textures.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Yes, Stalker has a 3D fluid simulation, where the points locations are calculated as if it was a flowing fluid, but there's not that many points, and each point is presented with a alpha transparent sprite (well at least they very much look like sprites to me).
Smoothed surface volumetrics are when you have a surface interpolated around all those calculated points, like in this demo:
http://youtu.be/LTOC_ajkRkU?t=2m55s
Here you can actually see the scene morph between the point-sprite based and smoothed surface approach. It is up to a million of calculated points per frame to achieve this, I'd say semi-convincing look, where it still looks a bit too blobby.