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Sony's Shuhei Yoshida: newly announced product at CES 2014 (VR headset?)
- Thread starter S¡mon
- Start date
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
VR is going to be the future, but in a lot of ways it will be like 2D - 3D transition, games will have to be completely re-thought and built for the ground up.
I hope Sony has Media Molecule working on the standout, built for the ground up, AAA, VR launch title. Their work on the Vita, taking advantage of all of its features, with only an 8 person team was spectacular. Imagine a much bigger team working on VR?
Plus, their engines have a simplistic beauty about them. Gorgeous, but they aren't technically demanding. This would fit well with the power restrictions that VR will impose on them. I can only imagine how good a papercraft world in VR would be.
Basically, what I'm saying is that VR will need its "Mario 64" or "Wii Sports" to lead the way and increase adoption. I don't think tacked on experiences will be all that great
I hope Sony has Media Molecule working on the standout, built for the ground up, AAA, VR launch title. Their work on the Vita, taking advantage of all of its features, with only an 8 person team was spectacular. Imagine a much bigger team working on VR?
Plus, their engines have a simplistic beauty about them. Gorgeous, but they aren't technically demanding. This would fit well with the power restrictions that VR will impose on them. I can only imagine how good a papercraft world in VR would be.
Basically, what I'm saying is that VR will need its "Mario 64" or "Wii Sports" to lead the way and increase adoption. I don't think tacked on experiences will be all that great
googleplex
Member
I can actually believe PC support, but the rest of that sounds like bullshit.
Yeah. I think if a VR headset is really in the works, it's meant to be competitive.
TheRealTalker
Banned
But guys it's realgamernewz it goota be real for shillz
Edit: Also nice MJ head expresses it nicely
Edit: Also nice MJ head expresses it nicely
serversurfer
Member
No, it's made to seem like you're watching a 60" screen from 10' away in a dark room.
No, it's made to seem like you're watching a 60" screen from 10' away in a dark room.
While wearing a face vice.
This is what I think and hope.
This is what I'm thinking - if so, I think I'll be holding off on my Vita purchase.
aspiegamer
Member
We know the VR is coming eventually (or within a year, even), so I too would love an official announce of the Vita TV for the West. We're going to get Sony fatigue in a hurry if they keep revealing their huge stuff within just a year of the PS4's release.
SPACECADET
Member
VR for PS4 would be excellent.
It was a ruse the whole time.
VindicatorZ
Member
Curious to see if Sony can match the strides Oculus has made in recent months. I hope they just partner together.
Graphics Horse
Member
There's only one screen in occulus, you get a ~1000 pixel square in each eye for a 1080p ver.
boredandlazy
Member
I thought it worked on a single 1080p screen with special lenses to give the appearance of stereoscopic 3D? It didn't actually have to render it twice...
Edit: Beaten...
The lenses don't "give the appearance of stereoscopic 3D". The game is rendered stereoscopically, 2 times with separate viewports. Each of those views is designed to fill e.g. 960x1080 of the screen, but to get 1:1 pixel mapping in the center you need to render around 1200x1200 pixels per eye.
The lenses together with the screen space distortion of the image serve to increase the field of view.
Rizsparky
Member
As long as it's cheap and it bundles with consoles I see this being successful.
crazygambit
Member
You know what? That's a very good point.
Why would Sony go to the trouble of designing a huge led light that takes a big portion of the controller (and that can't be turned off), just so the camera can select the right position for split screen games. Seems very wasteful.
I think it's pretty much a given that it's meant to be used in conjunction with the VR stuff.
I really hope they can pull off a res like that at 60fps. The VR rumors are the only thing that makes me think that the old rumor of Sony emphasizing 60fps was true.
I'd also love to see SF get a patch to up the framerate to make it work with VR.
That's not how the Oculus Rift works. It has only one screen, SBS 3D rendering with pre-calculated anti-fisheye warping that is eliminated when light goes through very cheap wide angle lenses. Very efficient and cheap design that gives great results. Whatever Sony is preparing next, it will have same setup.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Also a version of Nasne for the US. CES 2014 is going to be about the connected home CEA-2014.
There are two ways of going about making a stereoscopic 3D image.
1.) Render two separate images. This is the primary route that Sony has taken with the PS3.
Ideally, you could render to images at the same resolution at the same frame rate. But this is almost never the case. A 60fps game can be made a 30fps, or you can make a 1080p game a 960x1080 per eye and scale horizontally. Also, AA is absolutely crucial for S3D, as differences in jaggies from L and R eyes can cause some serious artifacts. Its better to have a lower resolution S3D image with AA than a high resolution S3D without.
2.) Second method is through the use of reprojection. As mentioned by others, you only need a single 2D (monoscopic) image and a depth map. From this you can produce a S3D image. And there are already off-the-shelf solutions for this: Trioviz (UE3), Darkworks, Crytek, etc.
However, there are downsides to using this method. As this is a post-processing technique, its not really developing independent images, so there can be 'cardboarding' artifacts to this method, and a it can add a few ms of latency. But by using this method you can run a game at much higher resolution and framerate with a fairly convincing S3D look. Furthermore, Sony has already done development for reprojection with the PS3, where it is offloaded to the SPUs, which shouldn't be hard to carry over to the PS4.
http://www.4gamer.net/games/032/G003263/20110810012/
While I think this is a good idea, as it could add TV/DVR capabilities to rival the XB1 to the PS4, they've done this before with LocationFree TV, and it was pretty half-baked.
A HDD-less one for sub-$100 I think could have a market.
B_Spooky13
Member
They can keep the VR headset...
I want my Vita TV
I want my Vita TV
Can't fucking wait. I'm litteraly foaming at the mouth.
Sidewinder
Member
Don't get too hyped, that little Tweet is all we got...but at least we'll know soon!
Nah, there were rumours backed up by multiple sources some time ago. I think it was a given that it was a matter of time for the unveil.
That, and I *LOVE* to hype
jeff_rigby
Banned
jeff_rigby said:
With firmware update 2.0 for Nasne and just released APPs for Android and Vita, the Hard disk in the Nasne is now a network drive for Android and Vita as well as a DVR. This update is following Open source Standards that other Media Gateways are supporting and those DVR DLNA-RVU servers also have hard disks and will support Samba local network and Remote network access. This has been in the works for years but waiting on "Standards". The FCC is mandating that all Cable DVRs have to support DLNA-RVU CVP-2 by June 2 2014 and Comcast is releasing to the public their Open Source Standard for this by Feb 2014. That, I think, is the earliest that it will be in the PS4 and PS3.
It could be a VR headset or Nasne and Sony's vision for the Connected home which dates back to 1995 and in 2003 when they started the DLNA Org.
Depends on the quality of graphics.On PS2/PS3 levels, probably.
Sidewinder
Member
Nah, there were rumours backed up by multiple sources some time ago. I think it was a given that it was a matter of time for the unveil.
That, and I *LOVE* to hype
Yes I do believe it exists, but I just don't know if they already want to show it. I love the hype too, but last year I was in a permanent state of overhype due to nextgen, I need a brake
Edit: Thuway allegedly heard, that Sony Santa Monica is working on a VR game, he's posting a ton of stuff on Twitter, but it's a PITA to read, Twitter wasn't made for that.
https://mobile.twitter.com/thuway/status/418667366981984256?screen_name=thuway
Another little patent filed last year, by SCEJ researchers. Around a 'optical see-through HMD' - i.e. one that can also do AR stuff, illustrated in combination with Move.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140002329.pdf
I think this is probably work that followed on from the TGS 2012 AR HMD prototype.
It'll be interesting to see if their commercial model encompasses AR. I'm a little unsure, depending on how 'tethered' one will be with one of these.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140002329.pdf
I think this is probably work that followed on from the TGS 2012 AR HMD prototype.
It'll be interesting to see if their commercial model encompasses AR. I'm a little unsure, depending on how 'tethered' one will be with one of these.
jeff_rigby
Banned
In the PDF they are transparent lenses with head mounted second camera. So not like previous head mounted displays, more like Google Glasses.Another little patent filed last year, by SCEJ researchers. Around a 'optical see-through HMD' - i.e. one that can also do AR stuff, illustrated in combination with Move.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140002329.pdf
I think this is probably work that followed on from the TGS 2012 AR HMD prototype.
It'll be interesting to see if their commercial model encompasses AR. I'm a little unsure, depending on how 'tethered' one will be with one of these.
With PS4 games running @1280x720p frame packing should be no problem.
Opus Angelorum
Member
That's what I thought, assuming the translation is correct.
Another little patent filed last year, by SCEJ researchers. Around a 'optical see-through HMD' - i.e. one that can also do AR stuff, illustrated in combination with Move.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140002329.pdf
I think this is probably work that followed on from the TGS 2012 AR HMD prototype.
It'll be interesting to see if their commercial model encompasses AR. I'm a little unsure, depending on how 'tethered' one will be with one of these.
When are some people gonna admit they're some motion games that are better to use with a PS Move than to go hands-free? Star Wars Kinect is a prefect example of a game that would be better with a PS move than to go hands-free.
This looks like it deserves its own thread.
Gemüsepizza
Member
And how did you come to this absurd conclusion? A few, quick calculations clearly show that the PS4 will probably have no big problems powering a VR device (especially now that devs are more experienced and can write code which is better optimised):
Killzone: Shadowfall MP:
1920 x 1080 x 60 = 124.416.000
Oculus Rift (Consumer version):
2 x 960 x 1080 x 60 = 124.416.000
Alternative VR headset display:
2 x 1280 x 720 x 60 = 110.592.000
Gemüsepizza;95614225 said:
It's not as simple as that. Yes you are displaying the same amount of pixels, but you have to draw the scene and calculate a lot of stuff twice that you'd only have to calculate once per frame in a normal display. It's more akin to running Killzone Shadowfall in split screen multiplayer @ 1080/60 instead of single player.
Another little patent filed last year, by SCEJ researchers. Around a 'optical see-through HMD' - i.e. one that can also do AR stuff, illustrated in combination with Move.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20140002329.pdf
I think this is probably work that followed on from the TGS 2012 AR HMD prototype.
It'll be interesting to see if their commercial model encompasses AR. I'm a little unsure, depending on how 'tethered' one will be with one of these.
I'm hoping that Sony HMD is more like the old Sony Video Glasses concept from 2009 than Oculus Rift.
Sony's Concept Video Glasses with Tom Hanks
I'm sorry but Oculus Rift isn't going to make it in the mainstream market until they cut down on the size & also give people a way to see out in the real world when needed because it seems a little bit too overwhelming with the design that they have now.
I would rather have Mixed Reality than Virtual Reality.
Not really, there are a load of shortcuts you can take as you are just rendering the SAME view from a slightly different viewpoint. Most of the calculations are done already, just another render pass. A split screen view is a totally different perspective which may involve more textures, different characters, different animations and so on...
I have Oculus Rift and you do require a bit of a beast of a machine to render it properly I imagine for 2 main reasons:
- many OR games run with a "hacked" graphics driver, which is hardly the most efficient way of doing things
- the rest tend to be put together on Unity, which is very powerful, but hardly hitting the metal, as it many many layers of abstraction
On the PS4 you will have dedicated tools (based on the extensive experience Sony has with stereo gaming) and will be much closer to the hardware.
At most you would need no more than 50% extra rendering to serve your VR headset. In fact I imagine those "spare" CU's and GFX cores [the ones that "unbalance the system"
] are ideally suited to the task. You don't really need to hit the CPU for this.What I am saying is it is probably possible to knock out XB1 level graphics on the PS4 through a VR headset.
EDIT: BTW - I think at CES they will just be announcing the Vita TV in worldwide markets... I think they will have a Playstation event in Feb like last year for announcing the VR headset with a "Holiday Period" release date in mind again. Ideal timing to disrupt MS momentum as it starts to build for Titanfall, also lines up with Driveclub release (as a title rumoured to use it).