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[The Praiseworthy]

Being a huge fan of the series since 1996... and going through the Definitive Edition of right at the moment, I just can't stop thinking about the things that are missing from the game, things make the experience less "Tomb Raiding", things the developers can still keep in their new vision of the reboot and yet the game wouldn't be any less good... it will make it even closer to perfection.

Crystal Dynamic IMO made the perfect Tomb Raider game with Anniversary, that game had all the elements that made TR the series we all loved and adore... so they know how to make the experience we are looking for and give it to us.

These are the things that the next Tomb Raider SHOULD HAVE:



Water Exploration

I was very shocked to know that the new TR game won't have the water exploration we knew since the very first game in 1996... and Lara doesn't have the ability to dive and swim.

Water levels and exploration was one of the basic pillars of the series and gave the games something that define them from other franchises back in the 90s... ( Lara can swim and dive and explore and solve puzzles and collect artifacts ), such a disappointment that they throw all that away in the reboot and they need to bring back this element in the next TR game.


Health Packages

A survivor is born... but she doesn't need health packages to survive and stay alive, she have the auto recovery system :\ !?

This is ridiculous, if they are hyping the concept of making Lara a survivor then they need to stay true to it.

Don't worry the players won't mind searching for health packaging and using them, they didn't mind it in the series before and didn't mind it in The Last of Us... so they won't mind it in a game that have the concept of surviving as a basic foundation.


Deadly Traps

That makes you advance in fear and thinking about every step you take and where it will lead you to and what might happen to you... make you cautious and tensed.


REAL Puzzles

That you can't advance in the game without solving them.. puzzles that are challenging and make you feel that you actually accomplished something when you solve them and advance in your adventure.


Artifacts

Searching for artifacts not only to view them in the menu.. but to use them to solve the missing piece of the puzzle or to open a door with a lost key.


Tombs

The series called Tomb RAIDER... make the Tombs the core of the whole game and ride many of them in the main story of the game, not putting them aside in side quests and make them only 1 room only to justify the game's name!


Challenging Platforming

Make the platforming as challenging as they were in the past games, with a simple mistake Lara can fall to her death and crash every major bone in her body.. with every jump you feel that adrenalin rush and your heart skip a beat.


Levers

This one is kinda personal but I love pulling levers in Tomb Raider games to open doors or to move things... this one is kinda nostalgic.


Unexpected Excited Enemies

Tomb Raider games had such a unique enemies that we fought in the past years. like the famous T-Rex from the very first game... or a mythical dragon... or Indian goddesses... or flaying mummies, they were absolutely something different than fighting regular humans most of the time.


Classic Lara Croft

This can be always like an unlockable option for whoever want to play as the classic Lara Croft with the green top and brown shorts and the long beautiful braid and of course the dual pistols as the main weapon.




Well, I hope we can see at less some of these elements I've mentioned in the next game... but seriously it makes me sad that major franchises after another are losing their identity trying to satisfy the new kind of young gamers and fans... and neglect the old faithful ones.

Hope Tomb Raider 2 get some of it's identity back.

 

[DieH@rd]

TR2 was the best of the original games. I enjoyed it a lot on PS1.

However, I really liked this latest reboot. It was very light on the toomb raiding [and manual moving of 10-ton stone cubes ], but the rest of the game was really impressive. Eidos now has perfect launching point to crete something really special.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

but the rest of the game was really impressive. Eidos now has perfect launching point to crete something really special.

What did you find most impressive about it?

 

[Alienous]

Besides the classic Lara Croft, yes.

They've done a good job on the redesign, and I think it's too early to backpedal even for fan service.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Nice thread, but I do not miss the swimming. Also, I am probably in the minority, but I do not particularly miss ultra challenging puzzles either. The latest Tomb Raider was really action oriented, but I think it had a nice blend of platforming and simpler puzzles as well. Also, maybe this isn't fair, but Lara controls so much better and more responsive than ever. I must admit there are a few things and elements I do miss from the earlier games.

 

[Rodney McKay]

Spoilers for Tomb Raider reboot regarding that last point:

Spoiler

She does get dual pistols at the end of the game as it was a fantastic callback to OG Lara.

I'm fine if they pass on underwater traversal or health packs, but I'd love to see most of that other stuff. I LOVED how much puzzle solving (they don't need to be extremely difficult, but I like the ones that were basically built into the entire level so you solve it over the course of a level), environmental traversal, and traps there were in Anniversary and I'd love to see a LOT more of that in Tomb Raider 2.

 

[AstroNut325]

I never played any of the original TR games so I have no frame of reference. But I do agree with you OP. More puzzles and platforming would be great.

 

[Corpsepyre]

Agree with OP. I want more mind boggling puzzles, exploration and less, and I really mean less, shooting.

 

[UnrealEck]

I'd like to see proper tomb raiding again. Fair enough with the reboot it's sort of meant to ease you in and tell the story as it begins and how she gets into being the sort of character she becomes. But for the next game I'd like to see the old trap laden tombs along with all the methods of traversing terrain seen in the reboot.
I hope they don't go back to the old character too though. The overly sexualised, overly badass female sort of deal. We get it, she's a bad ass. Just make her like the reboot only more determined and confident.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Nah, TR1 is the best of the original series, followed by 3 and then 2.

- 2 had very little original music compared to 3.
- Felt like DLC of TR1 with nothing really new except for a ponytail animation.
- 1 had better characters.
- if 2 was so great why did they base Anniversary off 1?

 

[Skilletor]

While I agree, you're basically asking to make something fundamentally different than what they did with TR1.

I will now go cry in a corner.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Artifacts

 

[vladdamad]

I agree 100%, as well as on the fact that Tomb Raider Anniversary is amazing. I would love to see a similar remake for Tomb Rader 2, or just a general new Tomb Raider based on the Anniversary engine.

 

[DieH@rd]

What did you find most impressive about it?

Good hub-based traversal that perfectly showcased just one interesting location (previous TR games were globe-trotting affairs), awesome combat engine (combat in old TR games was laughable, here Lara was very agile, weapons felt satisfying, enemies were just challenging enough), good utilization of gadgets (upgrade system allowed nice progression of the weapons), really awesome visuals, storyline that always pushed me to play a little more, and origin story of Lara was more or less handled very well (at the end of the game in the final cinematic, we got fully developed explorer/survivor/badass).

However, I really want more puzzles and tombs in the sequel. Uncharted 1-2-3 had much more puzzles, and I enjoyed them all.

 

[Terbinator]

TR3 was definitely the game of the series. Revelations wasn't bad, but TR3 felt like a good step up from 2 and 1 before it.

Although I agree, i'd prefer it if TR2015(?) was more like the 90s games rather than Uncharted with boobs.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I agree with the OP.

I want some tomb raiding on my Tomb Raider.
Not just those "a tomb is nearby" that we got.

 

[Tucah]

+more tombs
-less shooting

 

[El-Suave]

They need a decent supporting cast, not the usual Tomb Raider douchebags.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I've never played the older games so personally it doesn't matter to me if the sequel is much like them. I enjoyed the gameplay of the reboot, but 95% of the time you weren't allowed to play. If they can cut way the fuck back on scripted shit and QTEs and replace it with actual content that utilizes the gameplay mechanics, I could be pretty happy with the sequel.

 

[Yoshichan]

The best post/thread you've ever made Praiseworthy. So fucking good! Tomb Raider is godlike and you just pointed out every single reason why todays Tomb Raider is shit compared to the old ones.

 

[luka]

Challenging Platforming

Man I hated that room.

You're absolutely right on all points, but of course there is no chance of any of that happening. All these things would provide genuine tension and challenge and that is anathema to Eidos' new audience.

Nah, TR1 is the best of the original series, followed by 3 and then 2.

- 2 had very little original music compared to 3.
- Felt like DLC of TR1 with nothing really new except for a ponytail animation.
- 1 had better characters.
- if 2 was so great why did they base Anniversary off 1?

I think you misunderstood the point of the thread.

 

[toastyToast]

That seems less like a few additions and more like an entirely different game. Face it brah, TR is an action series now

 

[Interrobang]

I definitely see all this coming into play in the next installment. I was fully captured by the reboot because I fully embraced the "origin" part of "origin story." How is this smart, female archaeologist a skilled marksman? How is she unfazed by such unbelievable encounters? Why can she get through any and every impossible situation?

You said you're playing through definitive version now, so I won't include spoilers, but basically, we learn the answers to all these questions. She learned how to shoot by being thrown into a situation where she had to survive (the island). She is unfazed by unbelievable magic and supernatural encounters because

Spoiler

she finds out magic and the unexplainable truly exist by the end of the game

, and she can get through any situation because despite her calm and cool exterior, her experiences on the island have made her strong and resilient (ie:

Spoiler

at the end of the game, after all she's been through, she decides not to go home, because she absolutely craves more adventure and explanation.

)

She'll probably have the classic look (shorts + tank top) in the next one, unless she goes to some snowy landscape. She also

Spoiler

gets her dual pistols at the end of the reboot, and uses them

.

 

[Alienous]

Tomb Raider is a better Uncharted game than Uncharted 3.
Uncharted is a better Tomb Raider game than Tomb Raider.

One lacks the exploration, and the other lacks the puzzles. Funny how that works.

 

[F0rneus]

I loved the reboot because it felt like RE4-2 to me. So IMO, my perfect TR2 would be even darker, and more violent than the first. Just give me more survival-horror like puzzles. I want this new Lara to stick with exploring horror-themed stuff. The reboot was basically Japan Chainsaw Massacre: The Grudge Edition. I could go for Raiders of the Lost Hockey Mask: The Crystal Machete next time.

 

[Cjdamon042]

http://i.imgur.com/4WZh1d8.jpg

Nah, TR1 is the best of the original series, followed by 3 and then 2.

- 2 had very little original music compared to 3.
- Felt like DLC of TR1 with nothing really new except for a ponytail animation.
- 1 had better characters.
- if 2 was so great why did they base Anniversary off 1?

http://i.imgur.com/iK6FaGy.jpg

I think OP is saying what they want Tomb Raider 2 to be like, as in the next game, not THE Tomb Raider 2.

And I agree. I loved Tomb Raider, but it needed more puzzles and actual tomb raiding. Hopefully the sequel (ie, Tomb Raider 2) will address that.

 

[Tex117]

I will be playing the defintiive edition very soon, but I think I can say this having not played the current one due to impressions.

I hope that the next Tomb Raider feels a bit lonely at times. The original ones 1, 2, and 3...There were long periods of time that you were just in the tomb checking stuff out. I like that part. I know that "modern" game design wont allow for too much of this in an AAA title, but I always that it was THIS distinguishing fact that seperated Tomb Raider from Uncharted.

 

[Creaking]

Nah, TR1 is the best of the original series, followed by 3 and then 2.

- 2 had very little original music compared to 3.
- Felt like DLC of TR1 with nothing really new except for a ponytail animation.
- 1 had better characters.
- if 2 was so great why did they base Anniversary off 1?

You're misreading the thread. OP is talking about a proposed sequel to the reboot, and what it should have. The OP is not talking about the original Tomb Raider 2.

 

[GregSequential]

I hear this argument all the time that there are no tombs in the reboot, but doesn't the entire plot of the game revolve around an inhabitant of the key tomb on the island?

 

[oconnomiyaki]

This thread makes me so nostalgic for the first Tomb Raider. I played it on the Sega Saturn and it was such a magical game. I absolutely loved how those environments felt like they had to be explored. Every single part of that game was a joy. The series started going downhill slowly after that... although putting Lara in a fucking speed boat in an Italian canal was probably the first warning sign.

I think the reboot had a lot going for it, though. It was linear but sort of had a Metroid vibe going for it. I'd still prefer something like the first game, but maybe a happy middle? They said they wanted an open world approach, after all.

 

[Khaz]

You're misreading the thread. OP is talking about a proposed sequel to the reboot, and what it should have.

No he's not, people are talking about the next tomb raider game. Tomb Raider 2 came out in 1997.

 

[flatearthpandas]

More swan dives.

But yes, most of that sounds pretty gravy. Not sure if I really miss the dinosaurs and giant spiders but I wouldn't mind shooting those any more than wave after endless wave of murderous castaways.

 

[luka]

I definitely see all this coming into play in the next installment. I was fully captured by the reboot because I fully embraced the "origin" part of "origin story." How is this smart, female archaeologist a skilled marksman? How is she unfazed by such unbelievable encounters? Why can she get through any and every impossible situation?

You said you're playing through definitive version now, so I won't include spoilers, but basically, we learn the answers to all these questions. She learned how to shoot by being thrown into a situation where she had to survive (the island). She is unfazed by unbelievable magic and supernatural encounters because

Spoiler

she finds out magic and the unexplainable truly exist by the end of the game

, and she can get through any situation because despite her calm and cool exterior, her experiences on the island have made her strong and resilient (ie:

Spoiler

at the end of the game, after all she's been through, she decides not to go home, because she absolutely craves more adventure and explanation.

)

She'll probably have the classic look (shorts + tank top) in the next one, unless she goes to some snowy landscape. She also

Spoiler

gets her dual pistols at the end of the reboot, and uses them

.

I don't know how any of that excuses the reboot of being shallow and abandoning everything that made TR what it was. Both the original Core design games and the Crystal Dynamics trilogy established their own backstories for Lara and how her personality was changed by those experiences. The reboot is something that should have been relegated to the story page of the real game's instruction manual.

Basically those were answers to questions no one asked.

 

[Certinty]

Great thread. Just shows how good the first Tomb Raider really is though. I mean even without all these features it turned out to be an amazing game. I have very high expectations for the sequel.

 

[Jazzkokehead]

The original Tomb Raider games were great. I did a playthrough of the entire series (including Angel of Darkness... but the less said about that one, the better) last year, after they were made available on Steam. The second might just be by favorite. The more shooting-orientated levels, such as on the oil rig, wear thin pretty quickly, but the Temple of Xian more than makes up for that - it might be one of the best levels I've ever played in a game. The new Tomb Raider wasn't awful, but it put far to great an emphasis on action for my liking. Yeah, defeating enemies has always been a part of Tomb Raider, but there were also lots of puzzles along with environmental exploration and navigation, a fact which the reboot seems to have unfortunately forgotten.

 

[CoG]

Tomb Raider was a reboot. I am glad they didn't just carry over the baggage from the older games like platforming, traps, swimming, and sexy Lara.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Less murder and rape simulator, more platforming, tomb raiding and puzzle solving.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Tomb Raider was a reboot. I am glad they didn't just carry over the baggage from the older games like platforming, traps, swimming, and sexy Lara.

Platforming, traps and swimming are considered baggage? Fucking hell. Wanna know what the real baggage of the series that needs to be dropped is? The combat/shooting. You know, the shit that got turned up to eleven in the reboot.

 

[luka]

The original Tomb Raider games were great. I did a playthrough of the entire series (including Angel of Darkness... but the less said about that one, the better) last year, after they were made available on Steam. The second might just be by favorite. The more shooting-orientated levels, such as on the oil rig, wear thin pretty quickly, but the Temple of Xian more than makes up for that - it might be one of the best levels I've ever played in a game. The new Tomb Raider wasn't awful, but it put far to great an emphasis on action for my liking. Yeah, defeating enemies has always been a part of Tomb Raider, but there were also lots of puzzles along with environmental exploration and navigation, a fact which the reboot seems to have unfortunately forgotten.

TR2's manshoots did wear thin, but I think the maria doria stages alone were some of the absolute best in the series.

 

[HardRojo]

In order to be a better game TR2 needs to get rid of:

• Overuse of explosions
• Shitty AI which makes a full headshot playthrough possible
• Useless skills, they should take the "less is more" approach here and put more thought into skills that actually matter
• Work a bit more on the story, they already ruined the Origin story so they can't fix that but they can make it better in the next installment
• Get rid of the handholding, completely
• More platforming and traps
• Refine bow and arrow gameplay, this could go hand in hand with better AI because let's face it, who didn't go through a good chunk of the game by doing nothing more than headshots with the bow and arrow?

I think those elements have to be addressed if they want to make the new TR something interesting.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Agree with everything, except the puzzles part. Fuck puzzles, one of the worst aspect of video games.

Also, the new Lara looks better than the old one, but an alternate skin for the old Lara appreciators wouldn't hurt.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Close to perfection? Well they need to scrap the foundations they laid with the reboot then -_-

 

[kyser73]

Less murder and rape simulator, more platforming, tomb raiding and puzzle solving.

whynothaveboth.gif

If the puzzles get too hard, or there's no way to balance them out against story - you'll get the Dara O'Briain thing about paying £50 for a game you can't finish.

 

[Next]

I just finished TR2 and already played TR1 right before that. TR2 also suffers from too much shooting in sections, but I'd still like to see another game like it with mouse aiming. Haven't played the new one because it looked like the "press A to AWESOME" cinematic kind of game which isn't my type. BTW how good is 3? should I play it?

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

whynothaveboth.gif

The actual Tomb Raider 2 had both....

Spoiler

The murder simulation part wasn't so great. The game would probably have been better with less combat.

 

[Creaking]

No he's not, people are talking about the next tomb raider game. Tomb Raider 2 came out in 1997.

Now you're confusing me. The original post is talking about the things that the sequel to the Tomb Raider reboot, which he/she is referring to as Tomb Raider 2 in lieu of an official title. The writer of the post I quoted above seemed to think that the topic was declaring the classic Tomb Raider 2 to be the best Tomb Raider game, which isn't what the topic is at all.

 

[Jazzkokehead]

I just finished TR2 and already played TR1 right before that. TR2 also suffers from too much shooting in sections, but I'd still like to see another game like it with mouse aiming. Haven't played the new one because it looked like the "press A to AWESOME" cinematic kind of game which isn't my type. BTW how good is 3? should I play it?

I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but I think the third is easily one of weaker of the original Tomb Raider games. It's not awful, but it's not as good as the first two, nor the forth.

 

[DedValve]

- An open world (this is something that they said they would be doing)

Don't go for size over content. I would much rather have a smaller, more tightly packed world filled to the brim with wondrous tombs, lush jungles, deadly traps, etc.

- Underwater - Agreed and it needs to be done.

- More animals - A survivor is born....more like a sociopath. Lara is a cold blooded killer in all the games but in the reboot they try a more serious approach and she comes off as a complete psychopath! The reboot would have been much better with plenty of animals, deadly traps and otherworldy creatures to attack her, with few humans getting in her way to show that they are the biggest threat.

- less focus on setpieces more on mystery and adventure. My biggest fear is that there will be a massive open world with not a lot to do outside the main story missions and shitty "kill x amount of things" sidequests ala FarCry 3. FarCry 3 had an amazing island but there wasn't much to explore, the awesome tombs lacked any danger and didn't give you anything except skill points...

there should be rewards. Not in the form of weapons or arbitrary skill points but a large treasure. Maybe a piece to a side puzzle. The biggest difficulty would be why should players get treasure? What would that do for them?

I think something like have one big main tomb, the last door (which will lead to the last level) will only open once you have acquired a certain amount of treasure. There could be multiple endings based on how much treasure you get. Meet the minimum requirements for the "bad" ending and go completely overboard for a "good" ending.

- Don't use lazy waypoints or handhold the player - give them a clear goal of what to do at all times. This is absolutely important. Rather than make a waypoint a giant glowing arrow like most games instead it should be the environment.

Lara sees a large tomb in the distance and must work her way over there. As she explores more of the land she unlocks more of the map, making it easier for her. If she's lost in a jungle lets say she has the ability to climb the tree and get an aerial view of her surroundings. Give her a compass that she can always refer to (and let players know what direction she should be going through HER dialogue).

- remove the xp skill system - seriously what is the point? Other than to try and hook gamers who love watching a bar go up rather than enjoy progressing and exploring the game itself.

- bring back HUGE massive tombs. By keeping the world small you can invest more resources on making each tomb count. The dungeons in skyrim where pathetic, linear and always had a shortcut back to the way you came. Make a smaller world, make bigger more intricate tombs.

- keep the michael bay to a minimum. No need to go balls blazing especially when lara lacks them in the literal sense. No need for her to kill hundreds of men. It is after all called Tomb Raider...she should be raiding them tombs, not the skulls of her dead enemies.

All of this would be a dream but it would also cease to be the new Tomb Raider so it might not happen ;_;

If anything just please remove the EXP bar. It really kills immersion.

 

[Blackage]

I don't want any of that! Darn you people wanting to go back to it's sucky roots.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I just finished TR2 and already played TR1 right before that. TR2 also suffers from too much shooting in sections, but I'd still like to see another game like it with mouse aiming. Haven't played the new one because it looked like the "press A to AWESOME" cinematic kind of game which isn't my type. BTW how good is 3? should I play it?

I actually didn't like 3 much. It's my least favourite PS1 Tomb Raider. Yeah I even liked Chronicles more weirdly enough. The save system annoyed me and I just didn't like the level designs as much as the first 2. It had the best mansion though. But some people really like the game so you should probably try it anyway and see how you feel.