Reizo Ryuu
Member
That NEP, I bet that very last part is going to be the very last part of the episode...and then save the full fight for ep130.
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Dragon Ball Super |OT9| Genki-Drama
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
Wouldn't make sense. They showed Toppo GOD form in a NEP and when he first transformed in the same episode he got some fighting off.
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koosa
Banned
Im seriously tired of this tournament, overall mediocore show quality plus rewatching original Dragon Ball series recently killed my excitement for new episodes. It's like 30 years of technical advancements between OG and super and yet the former surpasses it in every single aspect (choreography, plot, character development, humour, emotions, music, friggin ARTSTYLE/art direction). The only truly great thing about super is the addition of Beerus and Whis, plus giving 17 time to shine, his scenes were mostly epic. All the other stuff - average at best. I thought im just tired of franchise in general, but like i've said, original DB proved me wrong, i watched all episodes in a matter of two weeks and enjoyed every minute.
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God Enel
Member
Is that confirmed?
KevinKeene
Banned
No idea how Goku's gonna win now. It would be a lame ending if Ultra Instinct, which failed him 2 times already, was the deciding factor.
Since it'd be dumb if it came to a 'jiren forgets about Freezer, team goku wins by default', I have to assume there's still something else.
My guesses:
1) Goku awakens to real god-status, like Whiz and his father
2) potara fusion with Freezer ('Freeku')
3) Freezer somehow used the break to gain his next level beyond golden. Maybe ultra instinct, too?
Ofc, there's always the cheap way of a sudden interruption. Whiz father has been acting weird on several occasions after all. Coup d'etat-ing Zeno-sama?
Since it'd be dumb if it came to a 'jiren forgets about Freezer, team goku wins by default', I have to assume there's still something else.
My guesses:
1) Goku awakens to real god-status, like Whiz and his father
2) potara fusion with Freezer ('Freeku')
3) Freezer somehow used the break to gain his next level beyond golden. Maybe ultra instinct, too?
Ofc, there's always the cheap way of a sudden interruption. Whiz father has been acting weird on several occasions after all. Coup d'etat-ing Zeno-sama?
I totally forgot Frieza didn't get knocked out of the ring. I'm willing to bet 'mastered UI' Goku will be unable to beat Jiren and the only reason U7 wins is because it's technically 2 v1 and the time ran out.
That, or Goku goes out at the last second and because Frieza is laying low somewhere there's a tie between universes - if such a thing is possible.
Though, since it's ending/going on a long hiatus, I have no excitement in how this arc ends. It's either going to be a cliffhanger or something really dumb. Waiting a year, if not more, for the pay off will be rather frustrating.
That, or Goku goes out at the last second and because Frieza is laying low somewhere there's a tie between universes - if such a thing is possible.
Though, since it's ending/going on a long hiatus, I have no excitement in how this arc ends. It's either going to be a cliffhanger or something really dumb. Waiting a year, if not more, for the pay off will be rather frustrating.
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Codes 208
Member
no, just hinted at
OT: I gotta give props to Sean Shemmel for his redirection of Black. A slightly sinister Goku sounds so much better than deep voiced (Xenoverse) or phony British accent (DBFZ)
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notoriousKTR
Member
My guess is that Goku and Jiren will knock each other out and Frieza wins. He will make a heinous wish which leads to the next saga.
Codes 208
Member
You know it ends here right? The series finale is episode 131
longdi
Banned
I dont think DB will end with ToP, it is good money for them, and on a personal note, if it does, it is quite a limp way to go. ToP is the longest arc in Super, but it dragged on without major development or pay-off. Jiren is a boring end game antagonist. Granted such is the problem with Super. There are 4 major arcs, 2 from movies and 2 just dragged on like Buu saga.
I wished Toei Toriyama put some more thoughts in Super, they changed the programming to have shorter arcs, but did not inject fresh ideas instead filled too much nostalgia call-backs. Still DB must be the oldest running anime with the same small cast/canon, that i can think of, it is 20 years already and still so popular!
Dragon Ball isn't ending, but Super is going on "indefinite hiatus" after this arc. Now is this only until the movie is done and out, or are they ending Super for a new 'Dragon Ball' series? Who knows.
hikarutilmitt
Member
Dragon Ball Universe
Starts with End of Z, redoes a lot of GT and fixed a lot of the terrible in it. Also makes Trunks and Goten relevant again, Gohan has some other ability or something and Piccolo has merged with every other Namekian alive other than Dende. We find out Mastered UI is actually just Super Saiyan Silver, Vegeta finally gets it and Goku is busy playing fights with Beerus and Whis.
Starts with End of Z, redoes a lot of GT and fixed a lot of the terrible in it. Also makes Trunks and Goten relevant again, Gohan has some other ability or something and Piccolo has merged with every other Namekian alive other than Dende. We find out Mastered UI is actually just Super Saiyan Silver, Vegeta finally gets it and Goku is busy playing fights with Beerus and Whis.
KevinKeene
Banned
Something I don't understand: is Jiren inherently stronger than Goku? Goku can keep up with him thanks to UI ... so what if Jiren gained UI, too, duh?
generaldane
Member
I've been thinking about this for a while as well given how strong Jiren is and is quest for strength wouldn't be surprising to be if he also get UI
To me when jiren powers up properly ( red eyes/aura) it seems like he has his own form of UI.
I mean he stopped golden pissed off frieza punch with his eyes!!
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hikarutilmitt
Member
Going by the NEP, we're probably about to find out. Then even made it particularly clear that
Goku gets smacked even during UI at some point, leading to the massive explosion of light and Goku coming out to wreck something.
LordOfChaos
Member
I think you're right. In Dragon Ball, gains in strength come with gains in speed, apart from outdated pumped up forms. Jiren is just so strong he can go toe to toe with imperfect UI, without it. Mastered UI will be seen how it goes.
If Jiren did gain it, he'd still be wrecking easily. As I understand it it makes all your movements hyperefficient, so if his base strength was much higher to start with it would make him even better than Goku.
I hope they don't end all this Jiren thing easily. MUI stomping him would be so predictable and boring. A mutual KO leaving Freiza in the ring would be cheesy, but less cheesy than Goku overcoming a one:septillions gulf in two minutes.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
I'm concurrently watching DB and DBZ alongside Super.
I really miss the human touch of hand-drawn animation.
It reminds me of this:
Super has more off-model characters and style changes than the Android or Buu Saga.A
And it has by far the most displeasing models of the entire series as well. This looks like something kids do in Jr. High.
Then you have the best of Z with both style and animation
Let's compare Vegeta vs Goku Black and the Majin Vegeta fight
DBZ does everything better here. More pleasing style. Better choreography. Better direction. Better animation.
It's a remarkable difference that's making Super hard to digest. It just lacks that creator's touch.
It feels like a cheap parody.
I really miss the human touch of hand-drawn animation.
It reminds me of this:
Super has more off-model characters and style changes than the Android or Buu Saga.A
And it has by far the most displeasing models of the entire series as well. This looks like something kids do in Jr. High.
Then you have the best of Z with both style and animation
Let's compare Vegeta vs Goku Black and the Majin Vegeta fight
DBZ does everything better here. More pleasing style. Better choreography. Better direction. Better animation.
It's a remarkable difference that's making Super hard to digest. It just lacks that creator's touch.
It feels like a cheap parody.
hikarutilmitt
Member
So we're back this part of the cycle? At least Episode 5 wasn't brought up?
That fight from Buu had quite some budget put into it and you could tell. If you look at a lot of other surrounding episodes there are a lot of parts with static skies, very little animation (more than normal anyway) and plenty of times it goes off model. That being said, it's also much, much further into the series with more experienced animators, more animators (probably, would need to look it up) and in general is further into hand animation for its time. If anything it would be more fair to put that against, say, Hit vs Goku or something.
One small part of the Saiyan Saga is kind of a cherry pick, too, because there are so many times it goes off model, has poor animation or just generally looks like crap. The Namek episodes very frequently look dreadful, to the point of it being pointed out and discussed enough times that I won't even bother to post the infamous super skinny Vegeta finger gun scene. Hell, Vegeta's Final Flash against Cell looks terrible and suffers from the series usual shots of the environment to waste time. How much did Vegeta just flip between two given animation frames looking bulbous? It's still one of the worst looking things I've ever seen animated in DB, ever.
TL;DR We get it. Super frequently looks like crap. Don't compare it to Z, however, especially some of Z's better animated parts, just to make a point.
That fight from Buu had quite some budget put into it and you could tell. If you look at a lot of other surrounding episodes there are a lot of parts with static skies, very little animation (more than normal anyway) and plenty of times it goes off model. That being said, it's also much, much further into the series with more experienced animators, more animators (probably, would need to look it up) and in general is further into hand animation for its time. If anything it would be more fair to put that against, say, Hit vs Goku or something.
One small part of the Saiyan Saga is kind of a cherry pick, too, because there are so many times it goes off model, has poor animation or just generally looks like crap. The Namek episodes very frequently look dreadful, to the point of it being pointed out and discussed enough times that I won't even bother to post the infamous super skinny Vegeta finger gun scene. Hell, Vegeta's Final Flash against Cell looks terrible and suffers from the series usual shots of the environment to waste time. How much did Vegeta just flip between two given animation frames looking bulbous? It's still one of the worst looking things I've ever seen animated in DB, ever.
TL;DR We get it. Super frequently looks like crap. Don't compare it to Z, however, especially some of Z's better animated parts, just to make a point.
WaterAstro
Member
Just watched up to the latest after DBFZ came out and I didn't know Hit and Goku Black.
I won't say the obvious. I'll just say that the the show is missing the tension and desperation. It feels like nothing is really on the line because the plot forces the end of the world scenario down our throats and doesn't take it seriously.
You can feel the desperation as each fighter tried to beat Cell and lost, and the tension of the Z-Fighters training as hard as possible built up to the Cell games. Everyone was trying like they were the last defense. This is the same for Buu and Frieza saga.
For Super, the idea of destroying Earth or the universe is literally hammered at us, and the characters don't exactly react like it really matters. In the Goku Black saga, they kept going back and forth through time after losing a bunch, and it really kills the tension. It could have been a good saga if they let it run longer, like if Goku Black actually stayed in the normal timeline.
At this point, I think even DBGT is better than Super.
I won't say the obvious. I'll just say that the the show is missing the tension and desperation. It feels like nothing is really on the line because the plot forces the end of the world scenario down our throats and doesn't take it seriously.
You can feel the desperation as each fighter tried to beat Cell and lost, and the tension of the Z-Fighters training as hard as possible built up to the Cell games. Everyone was trying like they were the last defense. This is the same for Buu and Frieza saga.
For Super, the idea of destroying Earth or the universe is literally hammered at us, and the characters don't exactly react like it really matters. In the Goku Black saga, they kept going back and forth through time after losing a bunch, and it really kills the tension. It could have been a good saga if they let it run longer, like if Goku Black actually stayed in the normal timeline.
At this point, I think even DBGT is better than Super.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
I acknowledged Z going off-model and style switching, but at it's best the hand-drawn animation looked like actual care was put into it.
The touch of a creator and a real artist goes a long way. Those stylized black and white moments with sketch lines and interspersed flashes of color were incredibly evocative.
This lacks a soul (and many frames of animation.
I also think Dragon Ball fares better than both and shows a real and constant quality decline over the years.
These show signs of life and human touch. They have great choreography, direction, and impact.
Looks, I love Super and I think it's ending strong with Jiren, but this is what happens when you let something run for too long.
The shiny hair was a bad omen.
KevinKeene
Banned
Agree in principle,BUT: he got to pwn Toppo, the 2nd strongest guy, all by himself.
unknownhero
Member
technically, goku has never beaten vegeta 1v1.
LordOfChaos
Member
Frankly Goku being the main character of this ark almost feels out of place after the vast emotional journey Vegeta went on. His beatdown by Jiren and thinking of his family would feel like the more natural situation for an asspull powerup from 0 than Gokus did.
We should well know by now it's always going to be the Goku show though.
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manfestival
Member
the writers of super are pretty awful. i am only watching this because i was interested in getting caught up in the hype. Especially when i saw people losing their mind over the broly chick. which ultimately lead me to watch super. the whole thing in general is a disappointment. then of course there is the addition of like 4 different transformations... 5 if you include super saiyan rose from goku black. its just all so silly to me now. Especially with the possibility of throwing down a white haired goku next
I acknowledged Z going off-model and style switching, but at it's best the hand-drawn animation looked like actual care was put into it.
The touch of a creator and a real artist goes a long way. Those stylized black and white moments with sketch lines and interspersed flashes of color were incredibly evocative.
This lacks a soul (and many frames of animation.
I also think Dragon Ball fares better than both and shows a real and constant quality decline over the years.
These show signs of life and human touch. They have great choreography, direction, and impact.
Looks, I love Super and I think it's ending strong with Jiren, but this is what happens when you let something run for too long.
The shiny hair was a bad omen.
Those gifs are fucking awesome. I think some of those old animator masters are retired now, and nobody is taking the mantle.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
99% of the really good looking stuff in DB/Z are because they are lifted straight from toriyama's awesome panels.
However, there's plenty of awful shit in the previous shows as well. Super just doesn't have toriyama's dope ass panels as a base for a lot of the choreography and storyboarding.
However, there's plenty of awful shit in the previous shows as well. Super just doesn't have toriyama's dope ass panels as a base for a lot of the choreography and storyboarding.
laserlaser
Member
Vegeta the real MVP
Super has been overall shitty imo. I re-read DBZ and Saiyan saga to Namek saga was so good
Super has been overall shitty imo. I re-read DBZ and Saiyan saga to Namek saga was so good
LordOfChaos
Member
Well you got through the awful and ended right where it gets good
dudeforce93
Neo Member
No DBS episode today because of a marathon... That's what I read 
Amey
Member
No ep again on 11th.No DBS episode today because of a marathon... That's what I read
I acknowledged Z going off-model and style switching, but at it's best the hand-drawn animation looked like actual care was put into it.
The touch of a creator and a real artist goes a long way. Those stylized black and white moments with sketch lines and interspersed flashes of color were incredibly evocative.
This lacks a soul (and many frames of animation.
I also think Dragon Ball fares better than both and shows a real and constant quality decline over the years.
These show signs of life and human touch. They have great choreography, direction, and impact.
Looks, I love Super and I think it's ending strong with Jiren, but this is what happens when you let something run for too long.
The shiny hair was a bad omen.
dudeforce93
Neo Member
NeonZ
Member
New Dragonball Heroes opening animation, finally mixing Super characters with its original story. The actual animation is very... static though.
To be fair, Super has changed directors several times since then, and the current arc looks much better than Revival F or U6, so that's not really true.
To be fair, Super has changed directors several times since then, and the current arc looks much better than Revival F or U6, so that's not really true.
Lupin III is getting a new season soon and still stars the same characters from the 1971 anime. It also never rebooted, although the continuity is rather loose (references to past stories are very rare, though there are some) and some tv specials had big contradictions regarding pre-show backstory stuff.
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Jigolo
Member
I'm currently doing an entire run back on the entire show and going all the way through to Super. Currently on episode 102 of Dragonball, a show I've not seen since being a child. I've always loved hand drawn animation more but jeez those GIFs make me not even want to start Super. I've only seen snippets of GIFs of "good Super animation" and it still lacks something the old series had. It's something I can't quite explain but even Tien vs Yamcha looks better than anything I've seen from Super that's considered "great animation". I've seen BotG and the Frieza film and I feel that going to the show will only make those arcs worse. I'm aware there are changes in the TV show compared to the movie. But with the big animation the movies looked really good.
Tien vs Yamcha from Dragonball
Amazing fight. One of my favorites from that arc
Tien vs Yamcha from Dragonball
Amazing fight. One of my favorites from that arc
God Enel
Member
Nice comic telling how shit is, everyone is on #teamvegeta but super creators dont give a fuck. #fuckgoku
Codes 208
Member
I'd say GT did it worse. GT did stand for Goku Time afterall lol.
God Enel
Member
I never watched GT, so I cant say anything about it but I thought SSJ4 was quite cool.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
WaterAstro
Member
Ugh, so boring. This series already had like 3 different power up stages. Next, it's going to be ultra instinct in God mode, then it'll be ultra instinct in God mode with kaioken, and then he'll have SSJ3 hair with ultra instinct in God mode with kaioken. At the end of the show, Vegeta will also have SSJ3 hair with ultra insinct in God mode with kaioken, and they'll fuse.
The power up game is so boring, and Jiren isn't even built up to be anything special like how the DBZ villains were.
The power up game is so boring, and Jiren isn't even built up to be anything special like how the DBZ villains were.
generaldane
Member
I still wonder whats stopping Jiren from gaining Ultra Instinct as well