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Kingdom Come "Not interesting enough to pursue" - Gerstmann about GB's lack of coverage
- Thread starter KevinKeene
- Start date
AngularSaxophone
Banned
I get what you’re getting at but to be fair, Blacks and their history have been whitewashed and rewritten so much that it’s pretty easy to be deceived by “history”. King Solomon was black. There were black people in the “Americas” already before slaves were brought here.
Dizagaox
Member
This thread has actually made me aware of how vile the lead developer of Kingdom Come allegedly is. Whilst I don't think that was a core factor why Giant Bomb is not covering the game, and instead it's due to the game having some of the most boring characters, story and gameplay in the medieval RPG genre, I actually wish it was a stand against the developers. If it truly is, they ought declare it and raise awareness that the game is supporting Nazi ideologies.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
it's a conspiracy!
I've been posting since the exodus because I knew had I posted prior I'd get banned.
Which sucks because I was a member of GAF before it became neoGAF. I remember the first shift toward controlled speech when they attempted to monetize the forum. Many OG posters were banned for posting as they always had.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
What nazi ideologies is the game supporting?
This term is tossed around so loosely that it has lost all meaning.
WaterAstro
Member
I don't even know who's on what side of the argument anymore lol.
I think that it doesn't really matter if you're on the KCD boycott or if you're a KCD fan. I just don't like lies.
From what I played, the game evokes the feeling of playing a Western RPG like Witcher or Elder Scrolls. It's also a huge kickstarter success. "Not interesting enough to pursue" is total bs, especially from a media standpoint, and how everyone at Giant Bomb could think the same way is mind boggling. Does everyone there hate Witcher, Elder Scrolls, and any Western RPG?
I think that it doesn't really matter if you're on the KCD boycott or if you're a KCD fan. I just don't like lies.
From what I played, the game evokes the feeling of playing a Western RPG like Witcher or Elder Scrolls. It's also a huge kickstarter success. "Not interesting enough to pursue" is total bs, especially from a media standpoint, and how everyone at Giant Bomb could think the same way is mind boggling. Does everyone there hate Witcher, Elder Scrolls, and any Western RPG?
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
The majority of praise the game is receiving is directed at it's characters and story, but sure, whatever fits your narrative.
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Dizagaox
Member
The ones that belong to it's creator and lead developer.
Dizagaox
Member
This review nicely sums up my issues: https://www.xboxachievements.com/game/kingdom-come-deliverance/review/q
There are plenty of others that have an issue with the story being bog standard and the lead character lacking any wits or charm. Don't pretend I'm the first to mention it, because I'm not.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
He doesn't think black people were in 14th century bohemia in any meaningful numbers. Many historians back him up.
I don't think that makes him a Nazi. Did the Nazis have a stance on the ethnic breakdown of that region at that time?
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Well, the devil is certainly in the details, isn't it?
Dizagaox
Member
The dude literally wore a Neo Nazi murderer's band T-shirt to a gaming event, and posts things like this regularly:
He represents everything wrong with video gamemaking in 2018. The fact people like yourself turn a blind eye to his actions and comments because he created a game you like is also an issue. Yes, you have every right to enjoy the game, but don't get offended if others don't want to be associated with it. And yes, there are others that were creatively involved with the game that deserve their dues, but unfortunately that's not how the creative industry works.
prag16
Banned
He wore shirts for different black metal bands each day of the show, and the one you're talking about is hailed as one of the most important in the genre. And that tweet doesn't make him a neo nazi. An asshole? Possibly. But not a neo nazi. He was replying to people demanding that he put PoC in his game, which takes place in a region and a period in which having the wouldn't make sense. You're gonna have to do better than that. The burden of proof bar is higher here than in certain other outrage factories.The dude literally wore a Neo Nazi murderer's band T-shirt to a gaming event, and posts things like this regularly:
He represents everything wrong with video gamemaking in 2018. The fact people like yourself turn a blind eye to his actions and comments because he created a game you like is also an issue. Yes, you have every right to enjoy the game, but don't get offended if others don't want to be associated with it. And yes, there are others that were creatively involved with the game that deserve their dues, but unfortunately that's not how the creative industry works.
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
I'm going to be honest. I don't know the political views of any of the bands I like.
God forbid I buy a shirt at a show and get labeled a nazi.
The tweet can be taken so many ways.
People are demanding he create a culture that wasn't there in 14th century bohemia.
He says he doesn't want to invent it.
The desperate attempts to label everybody a nazi are invalidating the radical progressives on the left as they draw insane lines in the sand.
Unfortunately it's also hurting moderate liberals who don't think 50% of the population need to be punched or silenced.
God forbid I buy a shirt at a show and get labeled a nazi.
The tweet can be taken so many ways.
People are demanding he create a culture that wasn't there in 14th century bohemia.
He says he doesn't want to invent it.
The desperate attempts to label everybody a nazi are invalidating the radical progressives on the left as they draw insane lines in the sand.
Unfortunately it's also hurting moderate liberals who don't think 50% of the population need to be punched or silenced.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
If you take offense to my being sad that GAF seems to have attracted a great deal of gamer gate folks, then chances are you sympathize with the movement at the very least.
No, I think I'll pass on that one.
I have no idea. I'm not really here to champion ResetERA.
If not having a vile opinion about women, different genders and sexual orientations, and non-whites, for example, is "groupthink" then that might be an accurate description.
Without any kind of examples of any of that, it sounds like a bunch of empty platitudes, to be honest. You certainly aren't taking the lead in achieving your forum paradise.
I was speaking in general terms. Again, I don't have extensive knowledge about Vavra. I've seen plenty of people argue one way or the other about the historical accuracy of non-whites being in that part of Europe during that period. If the view that there weren't any in Bohemia at the time is the only thing people are using to argue that he is a racist, then I certainly wouldn't agree.
I definitely don't agree with that. There are many things that are beyond question and not up for debate for good reason.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I am sorry, but where are you seeing the "hell of a lot of" folks who are identifying with GG? The vast majority have clearly stated that they are not part of GG, but are just viewing it from the outside and have come to the conclusion that there was good and bad within the movement. Just because they didn't subscribe to the blanket hate that you and former GAF/current ERA do, doesn't mean they are promoting/part of GG. There is a pretty large thread about this discussion in particular that I am going to assume you haven't read. If you did, then what you are posting is clearly an ignorant and purposefully disingenuous statement.
The dude literally wore a Neo Nazi murderer's band T-shirt to a gaming event, and posts things like this regularly:
He represents everything wrong with video gamemaking in 2018. The fact people like yourself turn a blind eye to his actions and comments because he created a game you like is also an issue. Yes, you have every right to enjoy the game, but don't get offended if others don't want to be associated with it. And yes, there are others that were creatively involved with the game that deserve their dues, but unfortunately that's not how the creative industry works.
Please stop with this ignorant and poorly educated babble. Do some research into the band and person, which you clearly have not done. I am just going to link a post where
strange headache
has already done the research for you:As for the tweet,
Kotzen Ducha
's suggesting is what I am thinking myself. He is clearly throwing shade at folk that are trying to argue that they should put in characters not believed to be in the area by historians for the sake of diversity. Pushing their cultural expectations in a place that had different values.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, the main character's story and rise to prominence in this game is insanely improbable if we're going to talk about "meaningful numbers" and realism...
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
There seems to be no talking with you if you're just going to jump to hyperbole at every step of the way.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
As someone who has played all of those... I don't see how you can really compare this with Elder Scrolls and The Witcher. It's very different. The Witcher is closer perhaps, but even the opinions for that game were heavily split at GB outside of a general consensus that the writing on certain quests was really good.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
Ok then.
My, you have been active today after “popping in” after a bit of a break. Fighting the good fight, yeah? Ignoring facts. Screeching. Screeching some more. Ignoring facts again. Stating you don’t care to look at the evidence when someone offers you a rebuttal. Wash, rinse and repeat.
You follow the playbook dutifully. Well done.
RokkanStoned
Member
I don't see the point in being up in arms about this. Whether it's true or not that they didn't find it interesting, that's their loss, nothing to raise a discussion about motives. Because it's easy to choose whatever motive suits you, it doesn't - however - give you access to the motive.
If you dislike the lack of GB coverage, I'd recommend either do it through economical boycott or by giving more press to the game by other outlets, whether interesting posts, uploading interesting videos/pictures or other means.
If you dislike the lack of GB coverage, I'd recommend either do it through economical boycott or by giving more press to the game by other outlets, whether interesting posts, uploading interesting videos/pictures or other means.
Agent_Carnage
Member
I dont find it racist if there is no people of color in the game as the game is trying to be historical.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You're a truly bizarre person if that's how you see this happening, but you have shown a strong discrepancy towards insane hyperbole, making up your own narratives, and peddling conspiracy theories, so I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise.
With that said, I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of "fighting a good fight," "ignoring facts," (what facts?) "screeching," "not looking at evidence" (what evidence are you even talking about?), "following a playbook," etc.
Just bizarre and like peak "alt-right"/MAGA mentality.
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Damageinc103
Member
This thread made me even more happy I bought the game.
Hope it gets to 2 million.
Hope it gets to 2 million.
WaterAstro
Member
An open world RPG with heavy story elements, real-time town simulation, choice and consequences, and you don't think about Elder Scrolls? lol
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The actual gameplay experience isn't very close, though, is it? Other than the save system, I like what KCD is trying to do with its more "realistic" systems, but I don't find it hard to believe that someone who loves Elder Scrolls would find KCD to be terribly boring and tedious.
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
I’m not even American mate, so your labels are pointless.
You know exactly what you are doing. You ignore all valid points and continue to respond with useless nothings. Only now, people can call out when you make baseless and factless accusations. You are not a protected species anymore.
Welcome to the normal world.
For once he addressed the shirt and there is nothing wrong with it. secondly this tweet was an answer an asshole like tariqmoosa deserves anyway. And he is right. If you want people of color in your game make one yourself. Not every game needs black people especially a historically accurate game in a region that was NEVER EVER featured in a video game.The dude literally wore a Neo Nazi murderer's band T-shirt to a gaming event, and posts things like this regularly:
He represents everything wrong with video gamemaking in 2018. The fact people like yourself turn a blind eye to his actions and comments because he created a game you like is also an issue. Yes, you have every right to enjoy the game, but don't get offended if others don't want to be associated with it. And yes, there are others that were creatively involved with the game that deserve their dues, but unfortunately that's not how the creative industry works.
WaterAstro
Member
Uh what? Yes, games shouldn't be carbon copies of each other lol. The vibe is absolutely the same in terms of RPGs.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Man this place feels much more free now that people are allowed to speak their minds without overlord moderation.
1. The gaming press is a joke and has been exposed since the advent of youtube and twitch.
2. When everything is racist, nothing is racist.
3. The press has paradoxically drawn more attention and garnered more support for the game they colluded to diminish than if they would have refrained from speaking at all. Naturally, they can't keep their pieholes latched securely due to delusional levels of self-importance(i.e. "not interesting enough to pursue" = pussy foot censorship).
1. The gaming press is a joke and has been exposed since the advent of youtube and twitch.
2. When everything is racist, nothing is racist.
3. The press has paradoxically drawn more attention and garnered more support for the game they colluded to diminish than if they would have refrained from speaking at all. Naturally, they can't keep their pieholes latched securely due to delusional levels of self-importance(i.e. "not interesting enough to pursue" = pussy foot censorship).
TheDuskwalker
Member
Dragon's Crown Part 2
This time they want history to be as real as the Sorceress' titties.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Define "gamegate" folks.
Can't have your preconceived perceptions born of a incredibly one sided echochamber challenged now can we?
On more than one occasion you have brought up resetera without provocation and only ever in the brightest of lights.
What vile opinions about women, different genders, sexual orientations or non whites have you found here?
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Lol. Those are nice. They're jealous for sure so they slut shame her. "Real-life sorceresses would not alter their bust size, everyone knows that, duh."
Looking around at society, are we so sure of our moral superiority that we decide who gets what boobs and what color the textures on a npc's skin should be? Puritancial much?
Scopa
The Tribe Has Spoken
You’ll just get avoidance and evasive responses that don’t actually answer your questions. Wash, rinse, repeat. We’ve all seen it before.
Typical go to move of that personality type. Couldn’t have a debate to save their life, so they try to trap you in this pointless, circular argument, where they respond to your questions with questions, which would require you to find their quotes and quote them again. Ad nauseum.
A very unintelligent method of discussion.
EDIT: Exhibit A
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I really have no idea what you're talking about.
Seriously, though, you're not making a lick of sense.
I wasn't suggesting that they should?
I get a dramatically different vibe from this than Elder Scrolls. Like I said, it's closer to The Witcher 3 in terms of "feeling," but still a very different game. Other than them being narrative driven open world games, they are very different, indeed. The save mechanic alone is probably enough to drive away the more casual Elder Scrolls fan, especially when you throw in the bugs that can cause you to lose a good deal of progress.
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xStoyax
Banned
The dude literally wore a Neo Nazi murderer's band T-shirt to a gaming event, and posts things like this regularly:
He represents everything wrong with video gamemaking in 2018. The fact people like yourself turn a blind eye to his actions and comments because he created a game you like is also an issue. Yes, you have every right to enjoy the game, but don't get offended if others don't want to be associated with it. And yes, there are others that were creatively involved with the game that deserve their dues, but unfortunately that's not how the creative industry works.
What is the problem with his comment other than your offended? Being offended isn't an argument.
Do you send out surveys to entire dev teams to decide which games you morally align with before you purchase a game?
Seeing this game taking off & being a runaway success with the media doing everything it can to demonize it or ignore it is pretty funny. It's like they've never heard of the Streisand effect.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Holy shit... This is too much. Assumptions abound.
Did you, uh, read the post I was responding to that directly asked me about ResetERA despite that what he was replying to had nothing to do with said forum?
Context isn't your strong suit, is it? That was a discussion about what GAF was around the time that GamerGate came up.
Mod Edit - Zefah is going to be stepping away from this thread for a few days to cool off and will not be able to respond.
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PedroPanache
Member
There's nothing disingenuous about them mentioning why they're not covering the game. Particularly in the context of it being a big break-out hit and their audience wanting an answer as to why there's been no coverage. Unless you're in this paranoid space where everything means something and that underneath every statement is some politcial intent, however relatively benign, and furthermore that it's somehow toxic to the discussion. Well, that's the point where you begin to peel the layers of what is essentially a two sentence reply and build a case that they want some kind of kudos for their stance. You can't expect a serious discussion when your starting point is warped to the point of paranoia. Their audience asked. They answered. A two sentence reply.
TheDuskwalker
Member
Looking at what happened to Jennifer, real women are no longer allowed to dress how they want, when they want, and show off the goods either if it's not deemed appropriate by these people.
http://www.eonline.com/news/915242/jennifer-lawrence-offended-by-dress-controversy-this-is-sexist
I like how she reversed it and called them sexist for telling her how to dress.
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I see it like this:
I have an issue with this when the site choosing not to review is unbiased and front facing purpose is to assist the larger community to inform purchases and engagement.
I do not have an issue when it's a site that hasn't really ever cared about Community of Video Games as much as they care about their enjoyment of Video Games. They haven't really cared that YOU might like a game and try to get you the information to make an informed purchase. They instead run entertainment and talk with EACH OTHER on whether they do or do not like a game. Sometimes that wrapper might seem like a review, but it's usually more of an opinion piece (Yes, they are different. They're just much less common in the modern era.)
It's an over simplification but... honestly... not a big deal. I've personally never liked Giant Bomb, never felt their opinion mattered to me, and most certainly don't steer anyone there who needs INFORMATION to make an informed decision. People who enjoy Giant Bomb I'm pretty sure would agree... they just love to hear them talk about how they engage with games.
Someone else will review the game. I see no reason to give Giant Bomb crap for this personally.
I have an issue with this when the site choosing not to review is unbiased and front facing purpose is to assist the larger community to inform purchases and engagement.
I do not have an issue when it's a site that hasn't really ever cared about Community of Video Games as much as they care about their enjoyment of Video Games. They haven't really cared that YOU might like a game and try to get you the information to make an informed purchase. They instead run entertainment and talk with EACH OTHER on whether they do or do not like a game. Sometimes that wrapper might seem like a review, but it's usually more of an opinion piece (Yes, they are different. They're just much less common in the modern era.)
It's an over simplification but... honestly... not a big deal. I've personally never liked Giant Bomb, never felt their opinion mattered to me, and most certainly don't steer anyone there who needs INFORMATION to make an informed decision. People who enjoy Giant Bomb I'm pretty sure would agree... they just love to hear them talk about how they engage with games.
Someone else will review the game. I see no reason to give Giant Bomb crap for this personally.
PedroPanache
Member
True. I think if mainstream review sites decided to opt-out, then you've a larger story and a discussion can be had if they're serving their audience or sacrificing their interests over politics. This only gains traction and becomes controversial if you put all your stock in the last sentence of Jeff's reply and insist that they're somehow obligated to cover the game. They're not. They've made a point of not being that kind of site. I don't see anything that controversial about their choice to not cover the game.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
You straight up said you had no intention of reading the thread on gamergate.
Your posts on the subject are entirely pointless until you do.
I wasn't even referring to the quoted post, I'm referring to your posts.
You could have just scrolled down 2 posts, it was my misunderstanding and have already stated as such.
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PedroPanache
Member
These things are easily missed when you're browsing through a sizeable thread. Anyway, I apologise for trying to relight an already stamped out fire.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
That's exactly right. In fact, I would argue that if Giant Bomb was a site of unbiased reviews catering to a public, that second sentence might have been uncalled for... but they are neither a review site or "professional" (in the sense of requiring to keep opinion out of their workspace) so I don't think it's an issue.
Additionally, I don't care if people aren't interested in the game... I care less about their opinion of why than they do of the game itself.
Kadayi
Banned
Do I need to quote you again where you said it's now 'Gamergate Central' and 'All posters'?
So you come here extolling the virtues of Resetera and how free their KCD thread is with its 4k posts (much posting, so progressive, no wrong-think allowed, WOW), and yet apparently you haven't even bothered to read ours? Though that hasn't stopped you from shitting on everyone on high about what a hive of scum and villainy this place has become? Such tower, much Ivory, so tall, WOW.
And who decides what constitutes a vile opinion at Resetera? The council of elders? Let me guess it's all about ...
So you come here after a long absence, wringing your hands in deep concern about how GAF has become 'gamergate central' (your words) and then you expect those of us who take exception to your broad brushing to refute your allegations? That's not how the world works friendo, the emphasis is on you as the accuser to make the case for, not for us to disprove ir.
Yet apparently you're A-OK with the administration at resetera deciding for you?
Sure, if it's factually based and peer-reviewed, but I'm less convinced that personal opinions or many widely held beliefs are sacred cows that shouldn't be challenged. I mean jeez, hundreds of millions of people read their horoscopes every day, should we, therefore, put astrology beyond criticism? How much less so whether a game developer is, in fact, a vile racist, and whether game sites who apparently subscribe to that warped narrative are in fact not only doing their fans a disservice but also wantonly perpetuating notions that just don't hold up to critical scrutiny.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Guess we know why Vinny didn't play it. GB is becoming Waypoint 2.0.
I think that makes it pretty clear that the reason they aren't covering the game is because of the controversy.
Cato
Banned
None. He is just repeating the usual accusations from within his echo chamber. They shout xyz long enough that it becomes a truth in their minds regardless of actual facts.