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PS5 & Xbox Series X can achieve path tracing the games just have to be built with path tracing in mind
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[Digital Foundry] New PS5 Pro GPU details emerge - including a 2.35GHz max boost clock
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Hardware Platform
PS5 & Xbox Series X can achieve path tracing the games just have to be built with path tracing in mind
OverHeat
« generous god »
Nintendo 64 graphics with pathtracing incoming. I’m joking btw
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
Holiday 2024 is great will make Microsoft pressure themselves into a Xbox series Xpro Pro consoles are not made overnight, if at this point there are no rumours about a Pro console from MS then it ain't happening. And no point in releasing Pro console in 2025 either.
Response a couple of posts down from that link suggests little chance or at least not a good solution.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
It doesn't need to be.
It doesn't if you don't want 60fps yes.
That's bolted onto a game that had a rough start even without Path Tracing.PS5 Pro Specs Leak are Real, Releasing Holiday 2024(Insider Gaming)
Holiday 2024 is great will make Microsoft pressure themselves into a Xbox series Xpro Pro consoles are not made overnight, if at this point there are no rumours about a Pro console from MS then it ain't happening. And no point in releasing Pro console in 2025 either.www.neogaf.com
Response a couple of posts down from that link suggests little chance or at least not a good solution.
If the goal is to achieve Path Tracing someone can make a game about toys & limit it to one room or something.
aliadiere25
Member
I wonder how much storage they'll give you.
It should actually land well above N64 but I wouldn't mind seeing Mario Kart & Mario 64 level of complexity fully Path-traced or done with volume rendering .
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Mr.Phoenix
Member
That is a dumb generalization.
No, it's a fact if you know anything about hardware, lol. Calling it dumb just shows you are not familiar with how hardware works. Xbox One X had more powerful GPU upgrade for its time than what PS5 Pro is bringing and yet it could not propel games to do 60fps because CPU was barely an upgrade just like what you see with PS5 Pro (10% faster apparently). Sure, with less demanding games you may get 60fps mode like what you got with One X (handful of games), but games that were designed to be 30fps on base console will remain so on Pro. Maybe you'll get 40fps mode if there's some headroom with those type of games.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
PS6 quantum computing? What?
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
Doesn't mean much over what we already knew. Should be an ok machine but not as powerful as the PS4 Pro was compared to the base PS4.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Nope. Rendering is a big part of what a GPU does, but it isn’t everything, Ray-Tracing for example isn’t factored into the rendering process.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
PSSR could make our break it. Current quality modes at 60fps would be a win.
The difference this generation is that the vast majority of PS5 games already have 60 FPS modes.
That's bound to change once we actually start getting proper next gen games. This gen has mainly been about cross gen and games built on last gen tech. We already see that proper next gen games are 30fps with the likes of Alan Wake 2 and Plague Tales 2, Microsoft Flight Sim, with the announced Marvel 1943, Star Wars Outlaws and Hellblade 2, etc. Best you'll get on these games that push visual bar is 40fps like with Plague Tale 2.
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Physiognomonics
Member
Those 2 games run decently at 60fps. The others games either aren't released yet or are not on PS5.
My bad, Plague Tale 2 added 60fps option way after release (forgot about that). This was still early current gen title so they may have had some headroom for more performance, but even this came way after release. Alan Wake 2 that you highlighted does not have 60fps mode as the other games I mentioned are also unlikely to have it.
Digital Foundry has been saying from the start that eventually this gen will turn into 30fps when visuals are pushed hard, because CPUs are just not good enough. You can't bend physics and extract performance out of these CPUs that just isn't there. Cross gen and games built with updated last gen assets (eg. Spiderman 2) has made many people have unreasonable expectations from these machines.
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Alan Wake 2 has a performance mode. It's not locked to 60 FPS, but it's unlikely to be CPU limited given that Zen 3 CPUs on PC have mimimums of over 100 FPS.
Previous versions of UE5 were heavily single thread limited, but the latest UE 5.4 update has massive parallelization improvements that halve the renderer thread time. If Epic says 60 FPS is possible with Lumen + Nanite, I don't see why we should disbelieve them.
Edit: See the below from DF's AW2 coverage:
"Frame-rates are where the two systems diverge. Series X, for its part, delivers a very smooth rendition of Alan Wake. In performance mode, it offers close to a locked 60fps, with uncommon exceptions. We can drop a frame or two sometimes during traversal, and there are a few spots that cause momentary frame-rate drops, but the game feels quite smooth in general play. The consistency of the turnout here is surprising, and speaks to how scalable the game is on the GPU - and to how accommodating Alan Wake 2 can be towards lower-end CPU hardware.."
Alan Wake 2 on Xbox Series X improves on PS5 performance
Digital Foundry has the full lowdown on the quality of the Xbox Series X and Series S ports of Alan Wake 2.
www.eurogamer.net
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The
The CPU in consoles is actually Zen2 that has some Zen3 features. Digital Foundry actually did some comparison tests and they have console CPUs matching 3700X. I highly doubt 3700X can do 100fps on Alan Wake 2 with console equivalent GPU and settings.
Marvel 1943 is a UE5.4 title and that's obviously a 30fps game. Not saying 60fps is impossible, but I think only top tier studios will be able to pull that off. Most studios don't have the resources or time to be be concerned about optimising their game for 60fps.
Yes, I stand corrected with Alan Wake 2 (I'm obviously not keeping up with this stuff as a PC gamer and that's my bad).
The CPU in consoles is actually Zen2 that has some Zen3 features. Digital Foundry actually did some comparison tests and they have console CPUs matching 3700X. I highly doubt 3700X can do 100fps on Alan Wake 2 with console equivalent GPU and settings.
Marvel 1943 is a UE5.4 title and that's obviously a 30fps game. Not saying 60fps is impossible, but I think only top tier studios will be able to pull that off. Most studios don't have the resources or time to be be concerned about optimising their game for 60fps.
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Well in the below we see a 3600 getting framerates in the mid to high 80s with less than 50% utilization. There is what looks like a traversal stutter, but the CPU utilization actually falls during the stutter.
So Alan Wake 2 does not appear to be a CPU demanding game at all. I don't believe the frame rate for Marvel 1943 has been announced. However you should note that Robocop already has a 60 FPS mode using Lumen + Nanite on an older UE5 version (albeit with some drops in combat). And that's made by a tiny developer.
winjer
Member
The CPU in these consoles are just Zen2. No additional Zen3 features.
In fact they are cutdown versions of Zen2. They have less L3 cache, lower clockspeed and the memory controller is set for GDDR6, meaning much higher latency.
And the Zen2 CPU on the PS5 also has a cutdown FP unit. Not that it makes any difference in games.
On the other hand, it has the advantage of having lower level APIs on consoles and much less bloat than Windows.
Though this CPU is not top of the line, it is still more than enough for 60 fps.
And that comparison you made about the Jaguar not being enough for the pro consoles, thus the Zen2 is not good enough for todays Pro consoles, is not correct.
The Jaguar CPU was very underpower, much more than the Zen2 CPU on the PS5 or Series consoles.
Jaguar was clocked much lower than any CPU of that time. And it was a 2-wide pipeline CPU. While Zen 2 is the full 4-Wide CPU.
The Jaguar had no L3 cache. This Zen2 CPU only has 4+4MB of L3, but it's still better than nothing.
Zen2 might not the the best of the best CPU in the market, but for it's respective timeline, it is much better than what Jaguar was.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't know anything about hardware you say? Well... thanks for setting me straight.
This is complete and utter lazy sensationalist bullshit. We are in the 4th year of this gen, and whether you like to admit it or not, we have got solid next-gen games already. And as has been pointed out, even some of the games you use to make this lazy point have 60fps modes. And I am almost certain that continues to be the trend with games, even with those yet to be released.
I would also (if I were you) avoid using any MS first-party game as a yardstick for what we should technically expect from these consoles this gen. I mean, they are just about releasing a 60fps Starfield mode for a game that people, like you claimed, would have been nigh impossible to run at 60fps on the series consoles.
Honestly, the more you talk the more you actually show how limited your hardware knowledge is. It sounds like you are just regurgitation common critique tropes with very little understanding of what is really happening.
Things to consider, these are consoles. There will ALWAYS be compromises. And in such cases, Sony is choosing to invest in the area of the hardware that will have the most benefit for the widest spread of games on their platform possible. And this is the GPU. Until proven otherwise, and its dumb to be making an argument on something that is yet to happen 4 years into the gen, its clear to see that majority of the games thus released, come with or eventually support a 60fps mode.
Its also clear to see that most of the games that fail at running at 60fps are not necessarily bringing CPUs to their knees with regards to CPU utilization. There will always be exceptions, but you design hardware for the majority, not for the exception.
For 60fps targets... the Zen 2 CPUs in these consoles are good enough to cover 90%+ of every game made on them. And those that can't hit 60fps, should be able to hit 40fps. Comparing, in any shape or form, the Zen 2 in these consoles to the Jaguar in the last gen consoles... is dumb.
When you see a lot of these games get 60fps modes patched in, after the fact. That should tell you all you need to know about the hardware and the devs working on it. Unless of course, according to you, that is them "bending physics".
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Yeah exactly and always worth referring back to this.
Analysis - the PS4 Jaguar CPU to the PS5 Zen CPU benchmark comparison
Source redgamingtech
Physiognomonics
Member
Yep. There is currently only one truely CPU limited game and recently released on PS5, it's Dragon's dogma 2. Supposedly the game CPU logic managing the NPCs is incredibly badly optimized and could be improved a lot with simple optimizations according to some dev who looked at the code.Alan Wake 2 has a performance mode. It's not locked to 60 FPS, but it's unlikely to be CPU limited given that Zen 3 CPUs on PC have mimimums of over 100 FPS.
Previous versions of UE5 were heavily single thread limited, but the latest UE 5.4 update has massive parallelization improvements that halve the renderer thread time. If Epic says 60 FPS is possible with Lumen + Nanite, I don't see why we should disbelieve them.
Edit: See the below from DF's AW2 coverage:
"Frame-rates are where the two systems diverge. Series X, for its part, delivers a very smooth rendition of Alan Wake. In performance mode, it offers close to a locked 60fps, with uncommon exceptions. We can drop a frame or two sometimes during traversal, and there are a few spots that cause momentary frame-rate drops, but the game feels quite smooth in general play. The consistency of the turnout here is surprising, and speaks to how scalable the game is on the GPU - and to how accommodating Alan Wake 2 can be towards lower-end CPU hardware.."
Alan Wake 2 on Xbox Series X improves on PS5 performance
Digital Foundry has the full lowdown on the quality of the Xbox Series X and Series S ports of Alan Wake 2.
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aliadiere25
Member
Seems low, considering how much storage games take these days.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Why should Sony set the entry price higher? If you need more storage space, you can upgrade the hard drive yourself.
nosoynadie22
Gold Member
Haven't you thought about becoming friends with Hermen Hulst and Eric Lempel?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Haven't you thought about becoming friends with Hermen Hulst and Eric Lempel?
Lagspike_exe
Member
People who move from PS5 will likely swap their upgraded SSDs. They are becoming cheaper by the day as well.
playsaves3
Member
Is there something wrong with a next gen gaming console using the next generation of computing?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Zathalus
Member
Because quantum computing isn't the next generation of computing. It's also completely useless for gaming or anything your regular computer might be used for.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
What exactly would you accomplish with quantum computing?
playsaves3
Member
I was gonna say rift apart running fidelity mode at 60-120 but since that uses rt where the pro is good I won’t count it how about ff7 rebirth running quality mode at 60, sonic superstars running at 120fps like it does on pc, forbidden west quality at 60-120, fallout 4 quality mode at 60, all the persona games running 120fps like they do on pc or dare I say even 8k 60
playsaves3
Member
It does when this won’t be a cheap system
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
As I said, dropped the ball.
This department is really where they could show of the system.
Should have been done at system level.
sendit
Member
PS6 will use an Arm processor. Quantum computing applications in consumer grade products are several decades away.
Chris_Rivera
Member
I really doubt they change arch again for next gen. The gpu power isn’t there
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I don't think PSSR can be done at a system level. It requires certain data from a game engine that only exists if the game was using TAA as its anti-aliasing solution.
Then again, it probably can be done on a system level by just forcing a system-wide TAA pass on every rendered image and then use that to do PSSR, but even if that is being done, you won't actually get the benefits of an actual PSSR reconstruction.
So yeah, it can't be done on a system level.
What they can do though, is make it a requirement for future PS5 app certification. Sony has that kinda power, but that's one they ever seldom seem willing to wield.
playsaves3
Member
Not when ai is accelerating it
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
PS5 Pro Might Be Announced This Month: Jeff Grubb
PS5 Pro might be revealed this month (May), speculates Jeff Grubb, a prominent game journalist.
www.spieltimes.com
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Pretty sure he remembers wrong, wasn't the PS4 Pro just a blog post in Sept right before launch?
PS5 Pro Might Be Announced This Month: Jeff Grubb
PS5 Pro might be revealed this month (May), speculates Jeff Grubb, a prominent game journalist.
I don't see Sony talking PS5 Pro in this show
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Yeah, it's just his speculation. That's also why I didn't make a thread on this and instead shared it here as regular reply.
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Kaiserstark
Member
No for the reveal of the PS4 Pro, Sony did a Keynote in September 2016 at New York.
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