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[Lucky Forward]

A Roshanda by Any Other Name

What kind of parent is most likely to give a child such a distinctively black name? The data offer a clear answer: an unmarried, low-income, undereducated, teenage mother from a black neighborhood who has a distinctively black name herself. Giving a child a super-black name would seem to be a black parent's signal of solidarity with her community—the flip side of the "acting white" phenomenon. White parents, meanwhile, often send as strong a signal in the opposite direction. More than 40 percent of the white babies are given names that are at least four times more common among whites.

The data show that, on average, a person with a distinctively black name—whether it is a woman named Imani or a man named DeShawn—does have a worse life outcome than a woman named Molly or a man named Jake. But it isn't the fault of his or her name. If two black boys, Jake Williams and DeShawn Williams, are born in the same neighborhood and into the same familial and economic circumstances, they would likely have similar life outcomes. But the kind of parents who name their son Jake don't tend to live in the same neighborhoods or share economic circumstances with the kind of parents who name their son DeShawn. And that's why, on average, a boy named Jake will tend to earn more money and get more education than a boy named DeShawn. DeShawn's name is an indicator—but not a cause—of his life path.

 

[AVclub]

Given the popularity of Freakonomics, I'd say that "DeShawn" might become a self-fulfilling prophecy at some point.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Given the popularity of Freakonomics, I'd say that "DeShawn" might become a self-fulfilling prophecy at some point.

You're overlooking the potential held by. . . DeJake!

FUUUUSSSSSIIIIIOOOOOOON HAH! :lol

 

[AlteredBeast]

LeJake is also a close runner up.

 

[aoi tsuki]

I do not think African names have the same negative connotations as African American names.

Depends on who you talk to. i've seen a few ads on Craigslist for traditional African American dancers or instructors when it was obvious they were looking for African dancers/instructors.

Edit: Let's not start on poorly-named children. i worked in a police station and came across names that haunt me to this day they're so horrid.

 

[bill0527]

I'm white and I don't get callbacks, either.

.

 

[SmokyDave]

Here is an interesting experiment for those of you with teachers for partners. Ask to see a couple of their registers and see if you can guess which class is the higher set. It's not that difficult and you won't need to rely on ethnicity to get it right.

In the UK, I'd bet good money that a class full of kids called 'Kallum, Konnor & Kyle' will attain lower marks than a class of kids called 'Thomas, Paul & Peter'. All kids involved would be white. Also, I once saw a register at a school for behavioural problems that I was contracting for and it was basically the same four or five names repeated ad nauseum.

What's in a name? Well, if you're in a bar in the UK in 10 years and a chick comes over and introduces herself as Jordan, you're guaranteed a lay.

 

[JGS]

I'm pretty sure we didn't.

You should see Drumline. It's good- especially the ending. Really everyone, white or black should experience a black college homecoming.

When I applied I didn't do too much. To be on the safe side I just left off any indication of being a part of African American groups on campus.

Before the interview, it's all about a preconceived notion. When you show up for the interview, it's all about personality, skill, & poise. If they are still prejudiced after I dazzle them, then I don't want to work there anyway. I would have to work twice as hard as everyone else just to be validated.

 

[Cimarron]

I have a funny story concerning this.

I am a black West Indian and a lot of our names sound British since we were once part of the old empire. When I was in my early twenties I was applying for a job at a telemarketing firm where a cousin of mine was employed and I had him give them my resume. When my resume got to the head manager my cousin ,who sat nearby the office, overheard that he was very impressed by my creditionals. The manager then said that my name was a good strong traditional British name and that they could use more Brits in the company. My cousins direct supervisor who had handed him the resume informed him who was my cousin in the office and the I was black. To which his eyes bugged out and he yelled out loud 'He's BLACK!?!' :lol :lol :lol

I got the job but I always had a secret chuckle anytime I walked by his office.

 

[Zoramon089]

Hahaha same boat here man, except i have graduated from university and i am from the UK. Mi igbo name gets butchered left, right and centre thankfully the shortened version is easier and the Star wars jokes no longer phase me. Cookie for you if you can guess the first 3 letters of my name.

Obi?

 

[empty vessel]

A Roshanda by Any Other Name

But the kind of parents who name their son Jake don't tend to live in the same neighborhoods or share economic circumstances with the kind of parents who name their son DeShawn. And that's why, on average, a boy named Jake will tend to earn more money and get more education than a boy named DeShawn. DeShawn's name is an indicator—but not a cause—of his life path.

But recent research shows this to be false. The research shows that, if you take two people, one named Jake and one named DeShawn, and give them equivalent resumes, Jake will receive more call backs than DeShawn. Indeed, the research shows that, even if you take these equivalent resumes but give Jake a criminal conviction, Jake will still get more call backs than DeShawn. This kind of study controls for "economic circumstances." Giving Jake and DeShawn equivalent resumes gives them equivalent social histories. The research shows that the name, alone, is a source of employment discrimination. The cause of this employment discrimination is the assumption on the part of the employer about what the name conveys about the applicant.

 

[SmokyDave]

But recent research shows this to be false. The research shows that, if you take two people, one named Jake and one named DeShawn, and give them equivalent resumes, Jake will receive more call backs than DeShawn. Indeed, the research shows that, even if you take these equivalent resumes but give Jake a criminal conviction, Jake will still get more call backs than DeShawn. This kind of study controls for "economic circumstances." Giving Jake and DeShawn equivalent resumes gives them equivalent social histories. The research shows that the name, alone, is a source of employment discrimination. The cause of this employment discrimination is the assumption on the part of the employer about what the name conveys about the applicant.

You're (well, the research is) assuming that the employer would read any further than the applicants name. That isn't always the case.

Obi?

Damn. I was torn between C3P and R2D but I reckon you've got it.

 

[Bleepey]

Obi?

 

[MC Safety]

But recent research shows this to be false. The research shows that, if you take two people, one named Jake and one named DeShawn, and give them equivalent resumes, Jake will receive more call backs than DeShawn. Indeed, the research shows that, even if you take these equivalent resumes but give Jake a criminal conviction, Jake will still get more call backs than DeShawn. This kind of study controls for "economic circumstances." Giving Jake and DeShawn equivalent resumes gives them equivalent social histories. The research shows that the name, alone, is a source of employment discrimination. The cause of this employment discrimination is the assumption on the part of the employer about what the name conveys about the applicant.

People put criminal convictions on their résumés?

 

[mrkgoo]

Works for Asians, too, right? I've heard that a strong reason for adopting an English name, aside from assimilating, is to get a foot in the door?

It's crazy.


Anyway, curse my unique name. It was a fusion of two English names because my mother couldn't decide on which (or hated both), and as it turns out, it's a Bulgarian name.

 

[Zoramon089]

Cool, I've got a cousin named Obi is why

 

[empty vessel]

People put criminal convictions on their résumés?

The study looked at people filling out job applications, most of which ask about convictions.

 

[Phobophile]

People put criminal convictions on their résumés?

Most employers do background searches on top of that check box for felony convictions.

 

[Gully State]

Yeah, but then we get into stupid Cantonese/Mandarin arguments. :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong....but I don't think there is actually a surname (or word for that matter) in Cantonese literally pronounced wang...

 

[Woodsy]

Follow-on to this discussion - have any GAF members with a unique name purposely given their kids a more "traditional" name to help them avoid this ridiculousness of people tossing your resume because your name is Laquita?

 

[Bleepey]

Works for Asians, too, right? I've heard that a strong reason for adopting an English name, aside from assimilating, is to get a foot in the door?

Pssh, i suppose that's kinda justified but i swear to you, like all the Asian girls i know who have Asian names go by an English name i don't know i find that weird. Just be proud of your name. Like damn near all the African guys i know go by their African names barring a few and even then i just don't see the point.

 

[faceless007]

I love the replies that insist that white racism doesn't exist, it's just that managers don't want to hire gangbangers and they associate blacks with gangbanging.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Pssh, i suppose that's kinda justified but i swear to you, like all the Asian girls i know who have Asian names go by an English name i don't know i find that weird. Just be proud of your name. Like damn near all the African guys i know go by their African names barring a few and even then i just don't see the point.

I imagine it's better than getting your name butchered each and every day by people who don't understand tonal inflections. I have a totally Spanish name that's unpronounceable by most native English speakers, so I make sure I introduce myself using an anglicised version of the name.

 

[j_k_redtail]

I honestly don't think it's about "black" sounding names at all, but rather an inherent bias for common English names at the expense of all others. Were you to hand in a resume with the names Gustavo Enrique Trujillo Morales, Anubha Khamanakaran, Ho Mei-Fan, Francois Michel Dubois, Ernest Nigel Barron-Hamilton or Boris Aleksei Fiodor Inanovic, you'd be just as unlikely to get a callback as JayQuan Washington.

Do you have a source for this? There are studies which show that the last guy (JayQuan) isn't really likely to get a call back; they've been linked above. Has anyone done studies for other "ethnic names," too? Don't take this as an attack -- I'm honestly curious.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Do you have a source for this? There are studies which show that the last guy (JayQuan) isn't really likely to get a call back; they've been linked above. Has anyone done studies for other "ethnic names," too? Don't take this as an attack -- I'm honestly curious.

It was mentioned in Freakonomics, as a matter of fact. Apparently the name that inspired the most petty hatred was Elmo.

 

[empty vessel]

Do you have a source for this? There are studies which show that the last guy (JayQuan) isn't really likely to get a call back; they've been linked above. Has anyone done studies for other "ethnic names," too? Don't take this as an attack -- I'm honestly curious.

While I'm not aware of any studies, my hypothesis would be that there would be an effect, but that it would not be nearly as large as for names that convey African-American ethnicity. At least in the US.

 

[parrotbeak]

I had a recent conversation with some federal people who were all mid-level managers or so. A few of them were white and had unusual first names, like Asian or Native American names, but they were regular nth generation white Americans with regular white American last names. They were saying they might have gotten a little help getting their jobs because of their first names, because feds try to hire different ethnicities, but they aren't allowed to ask what someone is. They also said they would not check "white" on the application.

This is no evidence of anything of course; these were the hirees talking, not the hiring committee members, so we don't know if their names had any influence.

 

[MrPliskin]

Honestly I think the biggest thing that's holding back African Americans isn't their names and / or their schooles, etc.

It's the perception that is 'generated' by people like 50 Cent, T.I., Al Sharpton, etc. There are people who are significantly influential, but give bad perceptions toward African Americans.

It's not right, but it's true. Unfortunately, a lot of teens buy into the hip hop image, or the "I'm black so the white man is holding me back" image. Great men have come from lower places than Queens, and have educated themselves against significantly more adversity when compared to teens in "Ghettos" who feel they need to turn to sports, rap, or drugs to be successful. The reason they believe this has more to do with the fact that none of the successful African Americans in any of those arenas set the example or put emphasis on the importance of education. It would damage their "image" (and more importantly, their pockets).

Unfortunately, that "image" carries over to most of the community, and your name is also a big indicator. If you are "Latoya Jones" you'll have a tough time. If you're Lisa Jones, or Lisa Jameson, or Linda Jaworski, you have a significantly better chance to be successful "at random" in the job market.

The best thing anyone could do at this point to fight for equality for African Americans would be to silence a lot of the idiots and expose them for who they really are.

Another thing they need is someone who will speak well on their behalf. I'm sorry, but poor english is also a prime indicator, and it's not just what words you use, but also how you say your words.

There are a lot of "reasons". Not one of them is fair, but neither is the world.

Unfortunately a lot of people who are "activists" for African Americans (NAACP) try to fix the world around african americans instead of trying to "fix" (poor choice of words here) African Americans. That's a REALLY shitty way to put it, but I honestly can't find better words right now.

What I mean by that is, start programs to increase education, get children into school, college, keep them off the streats. Get "rappers" involved, and if you have to, attack the jerk off's who set a bad example. You're not doing anyone any favors if you teach little DeShaun that it's not okay for a white man to call a girl nappy headed on the radio, but it's okay for 50 Cent to say he shot a white cop, or call him pig, etc.

These things go a long way toward progress.

[/rant]

I know some folks won't agree, and I apologize if I offended anyone, that's just my long drawn out opinion on the matter. Sorry!