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[Funky Papa]

Pretty harrowing article over GQ about the rarely acknowledged nightmare of male rape in the military. Some of the quotes are gut wrenching.

We've all read similarly horrible stories from female soldiers before, but I have to say that this being a piece about males telling their own experiences to other men speaks to me in a different, probably more relatable way. And it's a total sucker punch.

The moment a man enlists in the United States armed forces, his chances of being sexually assaulted increase by a factor of ten. Women, of course, are much more likely to be victims of military sexual trauma (MST), but far fewer of them enlist. In fact, more military men are assaulted than women—nearly 14,000 in 2012 alone. Prior to the repeal of "Don't ask, don't tell" in 2011, male-on-male-rape victims could actually be discharged for having engaged in homosexual conduct. That's no longer the case—but the numbers show that men are still afraid to report being sexually assaulted.

Military culture is built upon a tenuous balance of aggression and obedience. The potential for sexual violence exists whenever there is too much of either. New recruits, stripped of their free will, cannot question authority. A certain kind of officer demands sex from underlings in the same way he demands they pick up his laundry. A certain kind of recruit rapes his peer in a sick mimicry of the power structure: I own you totally. "One of the myths is that the perpetrators identify as gay, which is by and large not the case," says James Asbrand, a psychologist with the Salt Lake City VA's PTSD clinical team. "It's not about the sex. It's about power and control."

To understand this problem and why it persists twenty-two years after the Tailhook scandal, GQ interviewed military officials, mental-health professionals, and policy-makers, as well as twenty-three men who are survivors not only of MST but also of a bureaucracy that has failed to protect them.

Above all, MST victims keep quiet because they do not believe their attackers will be punished. And they're almost certainly right. The conviction rate in MST cases that go to trial is just 7 percent. An estimated 81 percent of male MST victims never report being attacked. Perhaps it should astonish us that any of them do.

After turning 25, Steve Stovey joined the Navy to see the world: Malaysia, Australia, Japan, Fiji, the Persian Gulf. His first year and a half as a signalman on the USS Gary was "the greatest time of my life," he says.

In late September 1999, Stovey was sailing to Hawaii, where he'd be joined by his father on a Tiger Cruise, a beloved Navy tradition in which family members accompany sailors on the final leg of a deployment. Parents and kids get to see how sailors live and work; they watch the crew test air and sea weapons. The Disney Channel even made a movie about a Tiger Cruise, with Bill Pullman and Hayden Panettiere. The West Coast itinerary is usually Pearl Harbor to San Diego.

On the morning of September 20, two weeks before the warship was due in port, three men ambushed Stovey in a remote storage area of the ship, where he'd been sent to get supplies. They threw a black hood over his head, strangled and sodomized him, then left him for dead on a stack of boxes. Stovey told no one. He was certain that his attackers, whose faces he hadn't glimpsed, would kill him if he did. He hid in a bathroom until he could contain his panic and tolerate the pain. Then he quietly returned to his post.

Stovey says he might have killed himself were it not for his father's imminent arrival. The timing of the visit was "almost a miracle," he says. "When I saw him, it was the most safe feeling I'd ever felt in my whole life."

Father and son spent the next five days on board ship, almost certainly being watched by the three attackers. "I just kept it inside," Stovey says in a low voice. "I couldn't tell him."

I feel like puking my guts out.

Edit: Man, those quotes...

Steve Stovey “As a man, I can’t perform the way I used to. I just feel damaged. All I remember, along with the pain, is the slapping sound of being raped. I try to make love to my wife, but I can’t—I’m triggered. I’m traumatized by that sound.”

Jones

I'm terrified of men. I'm gay and I'm terrified of men. I can't even get an erection, especially since I got sober. I isolate. I don't go to movies, I can't handle concerts. I have horrid nightmares. Last Christmas, I went to dinner with some friends, and at one point I started panicking so bad I had to get out of the restaurant. I was shaking. I never even told anybody about this until last July. Do you know what it's like to live with this for thirty years?

Bob Hunter Navy, 1980–84

I'm emotionally numb all the time. I'm not feeling love. I don't feel.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Terrible I have no words

Poor men. I think there needs to be more support and better dialog to improve the communication around men victims.

The ordeal seems to be even further exacerbated within the military's culture >__<

Edit: I just couldn't form any other response with regards to Steve Stovey's assault. Poor guy. I can't imagine.... Just... gah. I hope he will find a measure to deal with that kind of trauma.... Ugh... No words

 

[PhoenixDark]

Seeing conservatives blame this decades old problem on DADT's repeal is disgusting.

 

[kirblar]

We've all read similarly horrible stories from female soldiers before, but I have to say that this being a piece about males telling their own experiences to other men speaks to me in a different, probably more relatable way. And it's a total sucker punch.

I suspect there's a language thing here in how the feelings are expressed/processed, leading to the male ones having a stronger impact for other men - I've had the same reaction previously.

The whole system needs massive reform - we don't handle this issue well at all, no matter where we look, because much of our understanding of it has only come within the last 40-50 years, and it flies in the face of people's assumptions.

 

[Paskil]

Seeing conservatives blame this decades old problem on DADT's repeal is disgusting.

Yup, upon seeing the first bolded part in the quote, I'm sure the average social conservatives brain shuts down and immediately focuses on the problem of "the gays."

This is terribly sad and I sympathize. Although I experienced coerced prolonged (years) of abuse from a friend, it was never violent like this and I was able to recover from it over time. I can't imagine what it would be like had I been in a situation where I felt I couldn't talk about it with anyone because of my job or position (and it still took me years after it stopped to tell anyone).

 

[Tempesta di Fuoco]

I think a lot of people who say that men don't get raped seem to forget that anal sex and rape exists.

 

[Alienous]

That final Steve Stovey quote is so honest and so sickening.

It's a horrible thing, to happen to anyone. I had a look a /r/RapeCounselling and that really brings home how traumatic and damaging events like this can be.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

I suspect there's a language thing here in how the feelings are expressed/processed, leading to the male ones having a stronger impact for other men - I've had the same reaction previously.

The whole system needs massive reform - we don't handle this issue well at all, no matter where we look, because much of our understanding of it has only come within the last 40-50 years, and it flies in the face of people's assumptions.

It sets a bad precedent when the US military is not able or not willing to talk about such issues.
Makes me wonder what goes on in my own country where there is a deep cultural stigma about discussing sex as a whole

 

[SmokyDave]

Jesus, that was a difficult read. All of those accounts were grim, but some were just 'fuck that I know I'd kill myself in that position' bad.

Between prison and the military alone, the rape stats for men in the US must be horrifying.

 

[kirblar]

It sets a bad precedent when the US military is not able or not willing to talk about such issues.
Makes me wonder what goes on in my own country where there is a deep cultural stigma about discussing sex as a whole

The US is really bad about talking about sex too.

 

[Moff]

the myth that man cant be raped usually applies to "by women", which is of course just as wrong.

but that the doctor in that quote apparently meant that men cant be raped by other men, either? that doesnt make any sense.

 

[striferser]

This totally suck.
Fucking rapist deserved to be on trial, and the victim need better treatment.

 

[Funky Papa]

The US is really bad about talking about sex too.

And mine has been pretty excellent as of late, but I'm dead sure that the army still has a huge amount of issues considering that news reports regarding sexual assault among soldiers are extremely rare, and the fact that more often than not officers rarely stir the pot, lest not invite some uncomfortable attention.

Armies generally suck at addressing their own problems and need outside forces to curb things like rape and discrimination. Otherwise, everything falls under keeping order and discipline.

 

[IronRinn]

This stuff is tough to read. This one, for (non-triggering (hopefully)) example:

I can turn off my love for a person like a light switch. If my current wife made me distrust her in any way, I could walk out the door and not miss her. My kids told me my head was always in my work. Which was true. I don't feel any loss of not being part of their life.

The damage that has been done to these guys...

 

[cyclonekruse]

Disgusting stuff though unfortunately not terribly surprising. I can see where guys don't want to come forward for fear that it makes them seem unmanly. Especially in a traditionally "masculine" space like the military where being tough is valued.

As a nitpick I dislike it when people are pretty clearly talking mostly about rape and then use statistics on "sexual assault." They are not equivalent. Not all sexual assault is as harrowing as rape. Though even non rape sexual assault can be devastating of course.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

That Bob Hunter quote was too real

 

[cyclonekruse]

The damage that has been done to these guys...

I've never been raped but I kinda feel that way. It's one of the reasons I don't feel like getting into a romantic relationship. But I think mine is due to moving around a lot when I was younger. I learned not to get too attached.

Sadly some of the things these men describe (isolating oneself, emotional numbness, etc.) are symptoms of depression which can occur for any number of reasons having nothing to do with rape or sexual assault. Though clearly these men are depressed due to the rapes.

 

[Funky Papa]

That Bob Hunter quote was too real

It's as blunt and to the point as it gets, but Steve Stovey's testimony is just too much for me to take. The man is unable to make love to his own wife, to share what amounts to the most delicate act of intimacy a man can have with the woman he loves. They stole that from him.

It's sickening. And the people who did that remain at large, unpunished.

I've never been raped but I kinda feel that way. It's one of the reasons I don't feel like getting into a romantic relationship. But I think mine is due to moving around a lot when I was younger. I learned not to get too attached.

Sadly some of the things these men describe (isolating oneself, emotional numbness, etc.) are symptoms of depression which can occur for any number of reasons having nothing to do with rape or sexual assault. Though clearly these men are depressed due to the rapes.

The trauma left by rape goes well beyond depression, though. That's just a part of it.

 

[Mysterious]

That final Steve Stovey quote is so honest and so sickening.

It's a horrible thing, to happen to anyone. I had a look a /r/RapeCounselling and that really brings home how traumatic and damaging events like this can be.

I couldn't find this specific subreddit, but my search yielded far scarier results:

Morally speaking if a woman goes out of her way to get a man sexually excited but isn't going to give it out she deserves whatever she gets. It's amazing that such a large portion of females recognise this, I thought all females were autistic when it came to empathy with men but it turns out it is only half of them. I am sure that rancid bitch Goodchild's will now do everything in her power to rectify this situation and will commit to action against it.
Male results are suspiciously consistent. It's fake.

What the fuck.

 

[MacNille]

I have a burning hatred for rapist and those who say men can't get raped. Of course they can get raped! Even by a women (Hard ones are a biological reaction!) and it happens.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

It's as blunt and to the point as it gets, but Steve Stovey's testimony is just too much for me to take. The man is unable to make love to his own wife, to share what amounts to the most delicate act of intimacy a man can have with the woman he loves. They stole that from him.

It's sickening. And the people who did that remain at large, unpunished.

The fact that the slapping sound is a trigger for him, just damn

 

[Platy]

One of the biggest problems with rape culture is that we call rape closer to sex, while it is actualy violence.

It is much simpler to report that you suffered violence than that you "suffered sex", because sex .... involves two people.

 

[Vagabundo]

Good Order and Discipline. :/

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

It sets a bad precedent when the US military is not able or not willing to talk about such issues.

There is a whole program for sexual assault prevention and they support all branches of the military. There are enough briefings and reminders about it to make you fed up with the subject too. I wouldn't say that the military isn't able, at least as far as the Air Force goes.

Sadly enough, the issue is still there and there are reports of people using the system as a tool for revenge against an ex which makes it worse.

 

[Volimar]

"military sexual trauma (MST)"

Why is sexual assault called something else in the military?

Also, if something happens enough that it gets abbreviated, you know it's bad.

 

[industrian]

Wait, they call this "military sexual trauma" now?

That George Carlin bit about language being sanitised/softened is always relevant.

 

[kirblar]

One of the biggest problems with rape culture is that we call rape closer to sex, while it is actualy violence.

It is much simpler to report that you suffered violence than that you "suffered sex", because sex .... involves two people.

This is probably the biggest singular issue in rewiring people's understanding of it. Every stat falls in line with other violent crimes like Murder/Robbery- Rape rates track up/down with the general level of violent crime, and the false report rate is the same.

 

[Frodo]

I'm gonna get these out of the way, and also add some perspective:

"They were asking for it"

"Those ugly bastards should be glad someone wants to have sex with them"

"If he hadn't drank that much it wouldn't have happened"

"I bet he enjoyed it"

"It is no surprise, considering the clothes he was wearing"

"I wonder how many of these men are lying trying to get a lawsuit"




Now on topic: That was exhausting to read. I can't fathom the amount of pain these people went through. It is time our society starts to act in favour of rape victims, whether they are male of female. Feminism has come a long in regards of addressing how society sees rape victims and how it always tends to blame the victims instead of prosecuting the perpetrators. Humanizing the victims instead of making excuses to justify the crime committed against them. And this is what we should be focused at. However the position the rapist is, it should be looked at and measures should be taken to guarantee that it will not happen again.


I also hope that the fact that men also get raped can create some sympathy towards female rape victims, and that it can shed a light that the so called "rape culture" is a real thing. Not considering the military or prisons, women are still by far and large the majority of victims, and a lot of them face the same problems those men from the editorial faced: not being in a position to report, feeling pressured not to tell anyone, feeling ashamed, fear of not being taken seriously, fear of stigmatization. As terrible as it is, it happens and we can not and should not sweep it under the carpet.

 

[cubicle47b]

That was really tough to read.

 

[ampere]

Hearing rape victims talk is so sad... can't even imagine that mental trauma.

 

[Spider-Man]

More men here in the USA get raped more on a daily basis than women do, the prison system and the government tends to shut those numbers out because they just don't care. Now with this news out about male rape in the military it's even more disturbing.

 

[Barzul]

This is depressing.

 

[Omegasquash]

Trying to fix something in the military is incredibly difficult for ridiculous reasons.

That story, hearing the victim speak up...that's nerve wrecking.

 

[GungHo]

some were just 'fuck that I know I'd kill myself in that position' bad.

Why do you think suicide rates are so high in the military? It's not just battlefield trauma.

"military sexual trauma (MST)"

Why is sexual assault called something else in the military?

Also, if something happens enough that it gets abbreviated, you know it's bad.

The military abbreviates everything and comes up with colorful metaphors for everything. Nothing is called what it is in civilian life. It's part of the militarization everyone goes through. It takes you away from normal society and integrates you into military society.

Note: This part of why people get so upset about the militarization of police. They do the same thing to establish a social order apart from society. It works for the military because it's expected that they exist apart from society to be able to be part of a standing army. The police, however, are integrated into society.

 

[Retrocide]

When I was in the Air Force it was pretty clear that the military cannot police itself when it comes t things like this. They've had decades to fix this and the haven't so take it out of their hands....the numbers alone are staggering

The conviction rate in MST cases that go to trial is just 7 percent. An estimated 81 percent of male MST victims never report being attacked.

Just insane.

 

[Meteorain]

Read the GQ article.

That last story about the broomstick was just disturbing. When I read how he imagined his revenge would go, I didn't feel any sympathy for his potential victims.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Damn...The article is a difficult read

 

[Hermii]

That's horrible. Fuck rapists no matter the gender. It also makes me wonder how much horrible stuff us soldiers can get away with in warzones without it being reported when appaerently the system protects rapists even in their own ranks.

 

[Mononoke]

Had a friend raped by a woman and he was ostracized for reporting it. Women didn't believe that a man who is stronger than women could ever get raped by force so he must have went along with it. Men didn't take it seriously because what guy doesn't vwant sex. Police didn't take his report seriously either, and my friend was made an outcast since we lived in a small town where everyone knows one another.

The amount of emotional trauma it inflicted on him was immense. He has trust issues and problems with intimacy. Even worse because no one even acknowledges his trauma to begin with, and he actually received backlash for his victimization. His rapist doesn't think she did anything wrong because he had an erection and men always want sex. In fact she thinks shes the victim because he complained about getting laid. I guess no doesn't mean no.

Support for male rape victims is really poor.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

I'm gonna get these out of the way, and also add some perspective:

"They were asking for it"

"Those ugly bastards should be glad someone wants to have sex with them"

"If he hadn't drank that much it wouldn't have happened"

"I bet he enjoyed it"

"It is no surprise, considering the clothes he was wearing"

"I wonder how many of these men are lying trying to get a lawsuit"

Ummmm wut?
Why the hell would you possibly need to "get these out of the way"?
Nobody said or implied your quotes, even remotely. What an odd and strange thing to post.

 

[wildfire]

This was deeply disturbing. It's amazing how many of them start out in the fucking group bunk rooms before they are dragged off to somewhere else more private.

They need security cameras all over their facilities and doctors with an ethical backbone.

 

[Valhelm]

More men here in the USA get raped more on a daily basis than women do, the prison system and the government tends to shut those numbers out because they just don't care. Now with this news out about male rape in the military it's even more disturbing.

Do you have a source for that statistic?

 

[ishibear]

This is so hard to read. My God. These poor men. The damage to their lives is extraordinary because of this.

 

[halfbeast]

well, that certainly ruined my evening.

 

[Delta Assault]

Jesus. So many men probably enter the military hoping it'll be like "Band of Brothers." And then something like that happens...

 

[timetokill]

There's pretty much no support for male rape victims in general, and then you add the military's fucked up culture along with it, and yep...

 

[Ikael]

I'm gonna get these out of the way, and also add some perspective:

"They were asking for it"

"Those ugly bastards should be glad someone wants to have sex with them"

"If he hadn't drank that much it wouldn't have happened"

"I bet he enjoyed it"

"It is no surprise, considering the clothes he was wearing"

"I wonder how many of these men are lying trying to get a lawsuit"

Nah, it's more like:

"but that's impossible"

"be a man"

"get over it"

"come on, you are dramatizing"


Different expressions, same underlying attitude: disbelief, suspiction, downplaying of the atack.

And to be frank, I think that the whole "rape culture" theory is misguided. Reading these testimonies, this doesn't seem to be about "sex" or "sexualization" or "gender roles". It's about violence and domination of the fithiest kind, plain and simply.

Poblem is, hierarchical institutions with a great code of silence such as the army or the prisión system facilitates impunity. It's not as if joining the army would turn you into a rapist, but if I am a sick fuck I know which institution I can join so I can hurt people and perpetrate my crimes with impunity.

So if I would have to find a solution for this problem I would recommend extensive, strict psychological filters, transparency, safety protocols for protecting the ones who dares to speak out about rapes... and massive, exemplary punishment for the motherfuckers who perpetrates them.

 

[Cybit]

I'm gonna get these out of the way, and also add some perspective:

"They were asking for it"

"Those ugly bastards should be glad someone wants to have sex with them"

"If he hadn't drank that much it wouldn't have happened"

"I bet he enjoyed it"

"It is no surprise, considering the clothes he was wearing"

"I wonder how many of these men are lying trying to get a lawsuit"




Now on topic: That was exhausting to read. I can't fathom the amount of pain these people went through. It is time our society starts to act in favour of rape victims, whether they are male of female. Feminism has come a long in regards of addressing how society sees rape victims and how it always tends to blame the victims instead of prosecuting the perpetrators. Humanizing the victims instead of making excuses to justify the crime committed against them. And this is what we should be focused at. However the position the rapist is, it should be looked at and measures should be taken to guarantee that it will not happen again.


I also hope that the fact that men also get raped can create some sympathy towards female rape victims, and that it can shed a light that the so called "rape culture" is a real thing. Not considering the military or prisons, women are still by far and large the majority of victims, and a lot of them face the same problems those men from the editorial faced: not being in a position to report, feeling pressured not to tell anyone, feeling ashamed, fear of not being taken seriously, fear of stigmatization. As terrible as it is, it happens and we can not and should not sweep it under the carpet.

Holy cow, we just saw our first "But what about the womenz!!!" post. Seen many "what about the men!" posts, but we have our first "What about the womenz!!!" post.

 

[shadyspace]

I really regret reading that and I only made it halfway through.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Nah, it's more like:

"but that's impossible"

"be a man"

"get over it"

"come on, you are dramatizing"


Different expressions, same underlying attitude: disbelief, suspiction, downplaying of the atack.

And to be frank, I think that the whole "rape culture" theory is misguided. Reading these testimonies, this doesn't seem to be about "sex" or "sexualization" or "gender roles". It's about violence and domination of the fithiest kind, plain and simply.

Poblem is, hierarchical institutions with a great code of silence such as the army or the prisión system facilitates impunity. It's not as if joining the army would turn you into a rapist, but if I am a sick fuck I know which institution I can join so I can hurt people and perpetrate my crimes with impunity.

So if I would have to find a solution for this problem I would recommend extensive, strict psychological filters, transparency, safety protocols for protecting the ones who dares to speak out about rapes... and massive, exemplary punishment for the motherfuckers who perpetrates them.

I wouldn't say it's the same kind of rape culture that is typically discussed in society, but it is a type of rape culture. Lots of instances of "you liked it, though, right?" and even saying "men can't be raped" is a twisted sort of normalization.