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[AdventureRacing]

I'm finding it very hard to see a situation where vita games don't cost more than PSP games. The tech is supposed to be similar to that of a PS3 right? This means budgets are going to go up a decent amount and i am expecting prices to go the same way. Maybe $40 for 1st party and $50 for 3rd party.

Also i'm not sure they can really go much lower without having an impact on their consoles business. Why pay $60 for a console game if you can get the same experience ojn a handheld for a cheaper price?

To me if they are trying to sell games which are nearly equivalent to PS3 games for any less than $40 it may cheapen the value of console games.

 

[Frankfurt]

I have gotten invested in a lot of iOS games. I may be in the minority, who knows.

Aralon 10+ hours
Heavy Mach 2 10+ hours
Defender of Diosa 10+ hours
Quest Runner 7+ hours
Crystal War 10+ hours
Warpgate 10+ hours
ibomber 10+ hours

etc.

Easily equal to what I put into something like Chinatown wars on the DS or even a lot of full console experiences like your average modern fps or driving game.

Don't expect the average GAFfer to realize that. I also have three iOS "campaign" games that i've played longer than any non-RPG/multiplayer console game this gen. The most expensive one cost me $15 at full price release day.

Add the fact I've even played a few of my "short bursts" 99c-4.99 (Lumines, Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies) iOS games longer than the average $60 console campaign, and GAFfers' whole argument falls apart.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Add the fact I've even played a few of my "short bursts" 99c-4.99 (Lumines, Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies) iOS games longer than the average $60 console campaign, and GAFfers' whole argument falls apart.

you don't always have your console with you in your pocket, or while you're taking a shit, either.

if Vita let's me bring console games on the go then i expect to put a lot more hours into stuff than i normally would- especially if we can get some good ARPG's.

 

[Key2001]

I'm finding it very hard to see a situation where vita games don't cost more than PSP games. The tech is supposed to be similar to that of a PS3 right? This means budgets are going to go up a decent amount and i am expecting prices to go the same way. Maybe $40 for 1st party and $50 for 3rd party.

It has already been stated that the dev costs are "much, much less" than PS3 games and are close to PSP dev costs.

Developments kits are also a lot cheaper ($3k or free to some) and according to Sony the PSVita is the easiest Playstation platform that they have released so far to develop games for.

 

[Apocryphon]

I don't count the game prices for hours of fun. I jumped to Uncharted 2 (and I will for Uncharted 3) day one, because, for me, it's worthy even if I play 8-10 hours (I don't like multiplayer too much). It was a unique experience that I wanted, and I really didn't want to wait some months or even a year to get it for 20-30$.

But, yes, for some reason, I could pay more for a PS3 game that I would pay for a PC game. And I would pay more for a PC game than for an iPhone game. Is probably related of the saturation of the market. There are not too many games like Uncharted, but tons of games like Mr. Ninja.

Right now, is very difficult to justify 10 or 15€ prices in iPhone, too many saturation in the market and too many games bought. I've payed it. Twice. One for Avadon, another one for FF Tactics. But they are games that are completly different than anything else that you can find in the platform. But I wouldn't pay 2€ for Mr. Ninja (got it free), because even if Mr. Ninja can entertain me during hours, Monster Rush can also do it.

But it's not like there's much of an alternative to current home console games. They cost £40 and that's that, unless you want to wait until they drop in price. Sure there are cheaper downloadable games available on both HD platforms, but mostly the games cost what they cost, and that's fine. Uncharted 2 was incredible, and there's no doubt that Uncharted 3 will be even better and well worth the price to experience day and date.

That said, outside of significantly important titles like Monster Hunter and Metal Gear, I can't see myself being ok with paying the same price for lesser games that a) don't provide a stellar experience, or b) offer significant value for the investment.

I even kinda have an issue with the types of games that end up on platforms like PSP. If I want a cinematic experience, I'll just buy the PS3 or 360 version... same for multiplayer. Most titles are essentially scaled down console games and most aren't really either meant for or optimised for brief periods of play. Portable Ops was a great example of mobile game design though, so hopefully Vita will see more of that.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It has already been stated that the dev costs are "much, much less" than PS3 games and are close to PSP dev costs.

Developments kits are also a lot cheaper ($3k or free to some) and according to Sony the PSVita is the easiest Playstation platform that they have released so far to develop games for.

Let us hope this translates into cheaper games.

 

[Eusis]

Let us hope this translates into cheaper games.

I think more likely we'll see more bang for our buck, or at least the same kind of variety/sized games as before.

 

[Ellis Kim]

I don't know where the thread conversation has diverted to, as I haven't been following it, but I just have to say that I get a little annoyed every time I see this the thread title because of how wrong that statement is.

Sony has every opportunity to make the VITA completely validated at its base $250 price point through features and digital offerings. Its hard to judge whether or not that pressure is going to be legitimate until they launch or reveal what their multimedia DD offering is going to be, and whether or not its going to stem beyond Qriocity, PSP BC, and the Video and Comics store section.

I still stand on the position that Sony needs to market is as a hardcore gaming device first, and tablet second, but to make those tablet features what PSVITA users fall back on using with the device when they're not in the mood to play a game.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

In that case I'm pretty sure just bringing the laptop would be better from an efficiency standpoint.

How many laptops do you know of with a 10 hour battery life?

 

[charlequin]

It has already been stated that the dev costs are "much, much less" than PS3 games and are close to PSP dev costs.

People have said some other things that aren't actually true about the Vita, too, but that doesn't mean we should actually believe them.

 

[ofx360]

I have gotten invested in a lot of iOS games. I may be in the minority, who knows.

Aralon 10+ hours
Heavy Mach 2 10+ hours
Defender of Diosa 10+ hours
Quest Runner 7+ hours
Crystal War 10+ hours
Warpgate 10+ hours
ibomber 10+ hours

etc.

Easily equal to what I put into something like Chinatown wars on the DS or even a lot of full console experiences like your average modern fps or driving game.

I'm pretty sure i've put in more than 20+ hours in a puzzler game called Shibuya(if you haven't played this game, try it, its good) and probably more in FieldRunners . But again, only in bit sized chunks over a span of however long. Its cool that these mobile games can do that now, but does that replace the PSV for me? Nope, not even close.

They're two completely different experiences for me. One is a great quick side experience, the other is the deeper core experience. An example would be flash games i guess. When i was younger, i put so much time into a lot of flash games. Then when i discovered Kongregate, a website that supported achievements for Flash games, that became a place i would put down hours upon hours on small, completely free play sessions. But did that stop me from buying tons of games for the consoles? Nope. It was just a nice aside for me.

I'm not trying to say that iOS games are useless or anything, but, at least for me, they're not enough to just up an replace the types of games I'll probably be getting on the PSV.

 

[Key2001]

People have said some other things that aren't actually true about the Vita, too, but that doesn't mean we should actually believe them.

This is not just stuff that some random person on a forum said. This is actually from Sony and those that have worked with the PSVita.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstation-vita-dev-costs-closer-to-psp/

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sony-ps-vita-is-most-developer-friendly-console-says-sony/

It also doesn't take a genius to know this just by looking at the specs. There is no custom cpu or gpu that is drastically different than anything else on the market this time.

 

[AdventureRacing]

This is not just stuff that some random person on a forum said. This is actually from Sony and those that have worked with the PSVita.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstation-vita-dev-costs-closer-to-psp/

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sony-ps-vita-is-most-developer-friendly-console-says-sony/

It also doesn't take a genius to know this just by looking at the specs. There is no custom cpu or gpu that is drastically different than anything else on the market this time.

I just find it hard to believe that the vita can put out graphics similar to the PS3 without having a reasonable increase in the size of budgets coming from the PSP.

Those articles don't really seem to indicate that there won't be a jump in the budget of games from the PSP to the vita. The price of vita games may be closer to the PSP than the PS3 but considering the huge gap between the 2 i'm not sure that really says much.

 

[Raonak]

hahahaha. no.

It's awfully cheap for what youre getting.

 

[charlequin]

This is not just stuff that some random person on a forum said. This is actually from Sony and those that have worked with the PSVita.

Right. I don't dispute that: the idea that the PSVita magically has PSP-level development costs is something that Sony said which is also bullshit.

 

[mujun]

I'm not going to argue whether a game gets repetitive or not, but how much of those 10+ hours are unique experiences?

I spent 5 hours on this stupid drag racing game, but it really only had 1 minute of unique game experience.

Does it matter? A lot of games are repetitive, not just iOS ones as you seem to be suggesting.

I found, for example, Uncharted repetitive, Split Second repetitive, WKC repetitive, even my favorite game ever, New Vegas can be repetitive.

Personally I value fun over variety. Shadows of the Damned is a good example, lots of variety, not a very fun game.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

So, I have to thank Nintendo for screwing myself by reducing the price of 3DS after I bought it for 250€?

 

[mujun]

I'm pretty sure i've put in more than 20+ hours in a puzzler game called Shibuya(if you haven't played this game, try it, its good) and probably more in FieldRunners . But again, only in bit sized chunks over a span of however long. Its cool that these mobile games can do that now, but does that replace the PSV for me? Nope, not even close.

They're two completely different experiences for me. One is a great quick side experience, the other is the deeper core experience. An example would be flash games i guess. When i was younger, i put so much time into a lot of flash games. Then when i discovered Kongregate, a website that supported achievements for Flash games, that became a place i would put down hours upon hours on small, completely free play sessions. But did that stop me from buying tons of games for the consoles? Nope. It was just a nice aside for me.

I'm not trying to say that iOS games are useless or anything, but, at least for me, they're not enough to just up an replace the types of games I'll probably be getting on the PSV.

Pretty much every one of the games I mentioned I played for 20 minutes (on the train to work) at a time or one or twice a month for an hour at work when I had some downtime.

Wouldn't be any different if I was playing Ruin or Uncharted on my Vita, except that I'd probably spend half the time thinking that I'd rather be playing it on a console.

That is the type of gamer I am, you can't dispute it. Research might show that I only make up 10% of the market, though, in which case Sony will be fine if they ignore the type of gamer that I am.

 

[Key2001]

Right. I don't dispute that: the idea that the PSVita magically has PSP-level development costs is something that Sony said which is also bullshit.

No one ever stated PSP-level, but close enough that publishers are able to price games within $10 of PSP games.

If PSVita development costs are closer to PSP development costs than PS3 development costs, it is not hard to believe that PSVita game prices will be close to PSP game prices than PS3 game prices.

There is much more backing this up than there is to suggest games will $50 because they look somewhat like PS3 games.

 

[JWong]

Does it matter? A lot of games are repetitive, not just iOS ones as you seem to be suggesting.

I found, for example, Uncharted repetitive, Split Second repetitive, WKC repetitive, even my favorite game ever, New Vegas can be repetitive.

Personally I value fun over variety. Shadows of the Damned is a good example, lots of variety, not a very fun game.

Uncharted provides environment changes, story progression, pacing, set pieces.

Your phone games are equivalent to this with maybe a wallpaper change:

 

[mujun]

Uncharted provides environment changes, story progression, pacing, set pieces.

Your phone games are equivalent to this with maybe a wallpaper change:

The games I mentioned pretty much all have environment changes. Most of them are games that focus on their RPG elements, levelling up, speccing, etc. Does Uncharted do that, no. Doesn't mean they are repetitive to the point of being boring or only playable in short spurts as you seem to suggest. Same way that having a story or set pieces make a repetitive game much less so.

I also think you are arguing against Uncharted being a good portable game, I find it hard to follow a story if I'm playing a game during my commute. I also get irritated at cutscenes if I'm playing a commute, I want to get straight to the meat.

 

[Jinfash]

This is not just stuff that some random person on a forum said. This is actually from Sony and those that have worked with the PSVita.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/playstation-vita-dev-costs-closer-to-psp/

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/sony-ps-vita-is-most-developer-friendly-console-says-sony/

It also doesn't take a genius to know this just by looking at the specs. There is no custom cpu or gpu that is drastically different than anything else on the market this time.

If I'm not mistaken, in thread dedicated to this interview, it was uncovered that the actual statement wasn't universal, and referring to a certain first party game instead. So think more Little Deviants, and less Uncharted. It's basically PR talk, you should always take it with a pinch of salt, especially this early.

 

[watershed]

To get a rough, very rough idea of Vita development costs we can look at this article: http://www.1up.com/news/3ds-games-cost-millions-develop
which puts development costs on a retail psp game between $36,000 - $710,000 USD. At the same time Marvelous estimates 3ds development costs at around $600,000 - $1.8 million USD. Numerous stories have run saying that development costs for the Vita and 3ds are triple that of their predecessors so we can easily guess that vita costs will be in the multi-millions and maybe into the $10 million area for bigger titles? Not sure but I remember seeing a story saying that RE:Revelations for the 3ds had a console like dev budget. HD console games from what I could find online routinely run in the $10-40 million area (does anyone know if that's accurate?). So at very least it will be pricey.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Right. I don't dispute that: the idea that the PSVita magically has PSP-level development costs is something that Sony said which is also bullshit.

I actually think it opens up possibilities of porting XBLA/PSN games or at least working on that "tier" of game if you know what I mean. Not to say that some downloadable games aren't high budget, but certainly the average budget is probably less than retail and significantly more than most PC indies.

It's certainly possible that Sony will just turn down games that are made with very low budgets or require them to have complicated enough features to act as something like a quality filter or lever for their agenda...

 

[Fou-Lu]

Does anyone know if PS2 emulation on Vita is a possibility? If Vita has access to PS2's JRPG library then it is the handheld of forever.

 

[mujun]

I actually think it opens up possibilities of porting XBLA/PSN games or at least working on that "tier" of game if you know what I mean. Not to say that some downloadable games aren't high budget, but certainly the average budget is probably less than retail and significantly more than most PC indies.

It's certainly possible that Sony will just turn down games that are made with very low budgets or require them to have complicated enough features to act as something like a quality filter or lever for their agenda...

Get the whole PSN library on Vita and I'd be all over it. Would love to have stuff like Joe Danger, Hoard, Crash Commando and the like on it. I honestly don't think I'd pick up many games for what PSP/3DS stuff goes for in Japan. Really feels like they are too expensive.

 

[charlequin]

No one ever stated PSP-level, but close enough that publishers are able to price games within $10 of PSP games.

PS3 games are only $10 more than PS2 games, but they still have average budgets 10 times higher.

If PSVita development costs are closer to PSP development costs than PS3 development costs

They won't be.

 

[Key2001]

If I'm not mistaken, in thread dedicated to this interview, it was uncovered that the actual statement wasn't universal, and referring to a certain first party game instead. So think more Little Deviants, and less Uncharted. It's basically PR talk, you should always take it with a pinch of salt, especially this early.

Despite the fact Yoshida states some of the main reasons why the development costs is so much lower than PS3 development costs? Reasons that make perfect sense.

"I wouldn't say it's the same costs as a PS3 game but when you compare to what our teams spent on Blu-ray based PS3 games it's much, much less. Part of that is that because the screen is smaller and the media is much smaller in terms of a card, so developers have to be smarter to create the asset. So that helps to reduce the development costs of Vita games."

I don't know how anyone can get that he is only talking about one specific game. It is pretty clear in the above quote that he is not just talking about 1 specific game.

This has also been one of the major talking points for Sony on the PSVita.

PS3 games are only $10 more than PS2 games, but they still have average budgets 10 times higher.

And? How exactly does that apply to the PSP and PSVita? All you did was show that PS3 development costs were greatly higher than the PS2 games and still only costed $10 more.

What does that say for the PSP and PSVita will nowhere near as large of an increase for development costs.

The PS2 was also a pain to develop for and likely cost more to develop for than the PSP.

They won't be.

So it's alright to state something that has absolutely nothing to back it up as fact and to completely dismiss something that suggests otherwise and has plenty of evidence to back it up.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Add the fact I've even played a few of my "short bursts" 99c-4.99 (Lumines, Angry Birds, Plants vs Zombies) iOS games longer than the average $60 console campaign, and GAFfers' whole argument falls apart.

And I played 120+ hours of Peace Walker which costed me about 20€, 200+ hours in Patapon and Patapon 2 (same price), I'm 30 hours into P3P, also played a shitload of time of Lumines, like 50+ hours... I guess that, by that logic, it makes 5 PSP games more valuable than at least 40 iOS games (and what, 60 console games?), huh? Handhelds must be a pretty good value then! You can play demos for tenths of hours, that barely means anything. And comparing exceptions with averages means nothing at all. You can get Bayonetta for less than 20$ and I played that 70 fucking hours, same for Valkyria Chronicles, Demon's Souls, etc. Worst case escenario, you buy the next CoD on day 1 and spend 60 bucks for a 5 hours campaign, but don't forget that most people also play online for hundreds of hours

It says a lot that playing a game for more than 10 hours is something worthy of mention on iOS, I guess.

 

[JWong]

The games I mentioned pretty much all have environment changes. Most of them are games that focus on their RPG elements, levelling up, speccing, etc. Does Uncharted do that, no. Doesn't mean they are repetitive to the point of being boring or only playable in short spurts as you seem to suggest. Same way that having a story or set pieces make a repetitive game much less so.

I also think you are arguing against Uncharted being a good portable game, I find it hard to follow a story if I'm playing a game during my commute. I also get irritated at cutscenes if I'm playing a commute, I want to get straight to the meat.

First, wow, I just youtubed some of your games. They are terribad.

Games that try to mimic dpad + face button controls automatically get delete from my phone.
That Aralon game has graphics comparable to the first Everquest.
To top it off, the video authors all have shown struggles with the controls.

Games with a bad interface are automatically not fun, and doesn't help that they have terrible visuals.

Second, Vita will not only have the Uncharted type of games. If you are completely oblivious to PSN, then I suggest checking it out before saying that the Vita will not have the casual experience in their games.

 

[Takao]

They won't be.

Maybe if you're going to retail and aren't NIS, but PSN Vita games will not exactly have ballooning budgets any time soon.

 

[OccamsBlender]

They're flocking to the iPad and iPhone instead? Those are both more expensive than Vita will be...

People see a phone as a need not a want, unlike a handheld video game console.

Hopefully Sony will keep the PSP minis program going so indie devs can enjoy access to the marketplace on the Vita like they do the iPhone. Sony really ought to promote their minis more...

 

[Fafalada]

Paperless schools have been tried and tested with very positive results

Which I'm not arguing against at all - but other people have concisely explained why a current-gen tablet is a poor choice of paper replacement in schools, and in spirit of not completely derailing this thread with politics I'm not going to discuss 'why' this is most likely being pushed right now in Korea.

especially when the current government has a hard-on for Microsoft but you've got to take every situation individually and this situation seems very positive.

MS obsession has been going for a decade now - and it had some really bad results too. The irony is that certain entities like banks are still remarkably efficient despite goverment's best effort to cripple them with idiotic software policies.

Right. I don't dispute that: the idea that the PSVita magically has PSP-level development costs is something that Sony said which is also bullshit.

This is a chicken and egg thing.
Budgets are driven by market expectations which in turn are driven by marketing/dev promises which in turn... But ultimately costs will only go as high as devs/pubs believe can be sustained, and if that turns out to be PSP levels, it'll be PSP levels.

 

[Audioboxer]

a "major failure"? Bit dramatic.

 

[MightyKAC]

a "major failure"? Bit dramatic.

That pretty much describes this whole thread. Long on drama and light on fact.

 

[staticneuron]

And? How exactly does that apply to the PSP and PSVita? All you did was show that PS3 development costs were greatly higher than the PS2 games and still only costed $10 more.

What does that say for the PSP and PSVita will nowhere near as large of an increase for development costs.

The PS2 was also a pain to develop for and likely cost more to develop for than the PSP.

The bulk of the cost of game development normally falls under asset creation (size of team as well) the PSP and the PS2 have more in common spec wise and the Vita and the PS3 have more in common (and was demonstrated).

Do you really think programmers get paid more if they simply find something difficult?

 

[mujun]

First, wow, I just youtubed some of your games. They are terribad.

Way to win the argument.

Imagine what sort of pitchfork wielding mob I'd have on my ass if I criticized Uncharted after having only watched a youtube video.

Plants vs Zombies controls perfectly, as do Crystal War, Heavy Mach 2, Defender of Diosa, etc.

I'll give you Aralon but again you are arguing against your own point. I highly doubt that the experience on the Vita will be equal to that of the PS3 when it comes to something like Uncharted. Double analogs make a big difference but a dedicated controller is much better than a handheld's controls.

 

[border]

A lot of people seem to blame the 3DS's problems on software not pricing, and say that a $250 handheld can work. If so, where are all the amazing games that are going to make mainstream gamers pay such a high price for a portable gaming system?

 

[ffspark]

I want a PSVita but $250 is very expensive.

 

[Chinner]

i think id like everything for free.

 

[Vorg]

i think id like everything for free.

Buy an android phone.

 

[Takuya]

Buy an android phone.

They said free.

 

[Cruzader]

A lot of people seem to blame the 3DS's problems on software not pricing, and say that a $250 handheld can work. If so, where are all the amazing games that are going to make mainstream gamers pay such a high price for a portable gaming system?

Nintendo got cocky like Sony(was) and overpriced their lacking hardware. Software was an extra issue. Market is always unpredictable, remember that.

Sony could do decent but they depend alot more on software. Remember, gamers are used to steep prices for Sony hardware but this time although its technically not expenisve, the media is making it out to be so it puts doubt into peoples minds.

I think it would be smart for Sony to make psn integrated so well like iTunes is on iOS device because that will make it easy for people to purchase content rather quickly and be able to keep up to date onl what's new. I look at my iPod and am amazed how quickly I can download the daily free apps.

Also I do alot of online browsing on my touch. If Sony puts a browser that ain't shit like netfront, I think ill use the vital for that. I wish they'd allow 3rd party apps that way you could choose some of the software to use.

Also as a iPod/Android user, I'm gonna be buying a Vita. I can only play the same casual-lite stuff on my iPod for some time before it gets boring. Even "core" games don't play like they would on a handheld.

 

[elcapitan]

Every time I play an iOS game, I think "This would be better on the PSP or DS." I think PSVita's biggest draw is connectivity and online gaming interface for core games.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

It has already been stated that the dev costs are "much, much less" than PS3 games and are close to PSP dev costs.

Developments kits are also a lot cheaper ($3k or free to some) and according to Sony the PSVita is the easiest Playstation platform that they have released so far to develop games for.

Depends on the kind of game you're making. A game like Little Deviants probably costs around the same as a typical PSP game, while Uncharted Golden Abyss probably costs something similar to it's console counterparts.

Most of the development costs in making a game come from art asset production. Making a console easier to program for doesn't usually make it that much cheaper to make a game for it.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

No one ever stated PSP-level, but close enough that publishers are able to price games within $10 of PSP games.

If PSVita development costs are closer to PSP development costs than PS3 development costs, it is not hard to believe that PSVita game prices will be close to PSP game prices than PS3 game prices.

There is much more backing this up than there is to suggest games will $50 because they look somewhat like PS3 games.

Third party PSP launch games retailed for $50.

 

[theBishop]

I'm finding it very hard to see a situation where vita games don't cost more than PSP games. The tech is supposed to be similar to that of a PS3 right? This means budgets are going to go up a decent amount and i am expecting prices to go the same way. Maybe $40 for 1st party and $50 for 3rd party.

Also i'm not sure they can really go much lower without having an impact on their consoles business. Why pay $60 for a console game if you can get the same experience ojn a handheld for a cheaper price?

To me if they are trying to sell games which are nearly equivalent to PS3 games for any less than $40 it may cheapen the value of console games.

PS2->PS3 went up $10. Most PSP games cost $40. So maybe Vita games will be $50.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Vita is already plenty cheap for what it appears to be offering.
A price cut at this stage will just mean they will cut corners elsewhere, so god please no....

3DS is still 230 euros in stores here, I checked this weekend.
Price cut my ass.

As others said, I hope the games will be affordable.
If they try to ask 40 euros for a game then my interest will be instantly killed.

once again :lol at all the pseudo marketing analysts on gaf, always funny.

 

[Chakan]

I will buy it for either 250 or 199.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Vita is already plenty cheap for what it appears to be offering.
A price cut at this stage will just mean they will cut corners elsewhere, so god please no....

When they lowered the price of the PS3 in Japan right before launch they didn't cut corners, they actually added a feature.