Support NeoGAF

[Nex Superne]

Valve and EA have both committed to $1.6 million prize pools. The similarities end there.

VALVE - DOTA 2
- Dota has an established international competitive community, replete with skilled players and highly coordinated teams
- Dota has a high skill ceiling in the framework of team play
- Only the top Dota teams in the world were invited, promoting top level play
- Participating teams were given sufficient time to practice with Dota 2
- Participating teams were provided free transportation and lodging
- 5v5 is an appropriate format for tournament prize money distribution
- Dota 2 featured vastly improved spectator features
- Prize money was provided entirely by Valve, no conflicting interests with other sponsors

EA - BATTLEFIELD 3
- The BF2 competitive community (naturally) was on PC
- The Bad Company games failed to attract competitve FPS players
- No mouse aiming dramatically lowers skill ceiling
- 12v12 (and even 8v8) is impractical for tournament prize money distribution
- May have to adopt a small team format (e.g. 4v4) for tournaments, destroying BF's defining feature: large scale combat
- Co-sponsor has a deliberate agenda

EA, as usual, doesn't get it.

 

[Jburton]

"It's all subjective". The last refuge of the defeated.

And besides, that doesn't change the fact that it's a gimped control scheme relative to the best one available.

Defeated?

I thought we were just spit balling here.


Do you think you are fighting or something?

lol.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Defeated?

I thought we were just spit balling here.

Do you think you are fighting or something?

lol.

We were debating the merits of different control schemes, and you lost. No need to rewrite history to save face man, it's okay. GAF will forgive you.

 

[kokujin]

lol console tournament

My first thoughts.

 

[jaypah]

Console FPS tourneys are viewed as mainstream?

I think he means consoles are more mainstream. At least that what his post says. I guess the thought is that since consoles are more mainstream then a console tourney would be too. Or something. I don't know. Its a moot point anyway as gaming still isn't that cool, at least gaming enthusiasts and forum dwellers. That's why we should ALL BE FRIIIIIIENDS!

 

[Jburton]

We were debating the merits of different control schemes, and you lost. No need to rewrite history to save face man, it's okay. GAF will forgive you.

I lost, according to whom?

You?

Lol.

Calm down son, its only a gaming forum.


Who really gives a fuck!


You can have the victory, seems like you might need it more.

 

[Danne-Danger]

I lost, according to whom?

You?

Lol.

Calm down son, its only a gaming forum.


Who really gives a fuck!


You can have the victory, seems like you might need it more.

So... you're saying you lost?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Good to see you've finally seen reason. It takes a big man to admit that he's wrong about everything.

I think he means consoles are more mainstream. At least that what his post says. I guess the thought is that since consoles are more mainstream then a console tourney would be too. Or something. I don't know. Its a moot point anyway as gaming still isn't that cool, at least gaming enthusiasts and forum dwellers. That's why we should ALL BE FRIIIIIIENDS!

If friending people on GAF had any actual benefits you'd be my first GAF friend.

 

[Jburton]

So... you're saying you lost?

Nope.


Just seems to mean a lot to that other fellow that he 'wins'.


I am feeling bored and charitable.


p.s. mouse is better for FPS on PC, controller is better for FPS on console.


A mouse being better for FPS on PC means nothing to a console player.


The real argument here (being fought by proxy) is whether the PC is better than console for FPS.

That is the more accurate argument.

 

[jaypah]

So... you're saying you lost?

guess he did.

If people think that there won't be an officially sponsored BF3 tourney they're crazy.

if friending people on GAF had any actual benefits you'd be my first GAF friend.

like.jpg

 

[Danne-Danger]

It takes a big man to admit that he's wrong about everything.

A shining example of an oxymoron in full effect!

 

[Cipherr]

Valve and EA have both committed to $1.6 million prize pools. The similarities end there.

VALVE - DOTA 2
- Dota has an established international competitive community, replete with skilled players and highly coordinated teams
- Dota has a high skill ceiling in the framework of team play
- Only the top Dota teams in the world were invited, promoting top level play
- Participating teams were given sufficient time to practice with Dota 2
- Participating teams were provided free transportation and lodging
- 5v5 is an appropriate format for tournament prize money distribution
- Dota 2 featured vastly improved spectator features
- Prize money was provided entirely by Valve, no conflicting interests with other sponsors

EA - BATTLEFIELD 3
- The BF2 competitive community (naturally) was on PC
- The Bad Company games failed to attract competitve FPS players
- No mouse aiming dramatically lowers skill ceiling
- 12v12 (and even 8v8) is impractical for tournament prize money distribution
- May have to adopt a small team format (e.g. 4v4) for tournaments, destroying BF's defining feature: large scale combat
- Co-sponsor has a deliberate agenda

EA, as usual, doesn't get it.

Pretty much. When I read the thread title I almost double taked. EA really is trying to mimic Valve. This just reads to similar IMO. And on consoles? For BATTLEFIELD? Lord have mercy.

Welp, good luck with that.

 

[Jburton]

A shining example of an oxymoron in full effect!

A swing ..... at me?

Aren't you swell.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Another reason for me to pick the console version, but I have 0.0001% chance of winning. I suck at games compared to internet people.

 

[Zeliard]

Controllers are not a gimped control scheme for gamers who have only ever played with a controller or those comfortable playing FPS with them.

I have zero issues playing FPS on a controller and I started playing FPS on a PC.

Its a matter of taste and opinion.

But that don't make it gospel.

How comfortable or not you are with a controller is insignificant to the main point; it puts a ceiling on ultimate potential.

The idea should be to remove as many barriers between you, the player, and being able to quickly and precisely control the first-person character in the game. A gamepad adds barriers.

 

[Danne-Danger]

A swing ..... at me?

Aren't you swell.

Well you're making it easy aren't you? Look, I'll lay it out for you, you made a couple of arguments in the beginning of this thread, they were refuted, and so you backpeddled, and then you got defensive about the whole thing. Now we're just picking on you to see how far you'll go.

The only way to win is to stop!

 

[Jburton]

How comfortable or not you are with a controller is insignificant to the main point; it puts a ceiling on ultimate potential.

The idea should be to remove as many barriers between you, the player, and being able to quickly and precisely control the first-person character in the game. A gamepad adds barriers.

On a console is there any other alternative?

When it comes to playing on a console the mouse versus controller debate is mute as mouse control is not an option.

What you are arguing is PC over console.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

How comfortable or not you are with a controller is insignificant to the main point; it puts a ceiling on ultimate potential.

The idea should be to remove as many barriers between you, the player, and being able to quickly and precisely control the first-person character in the game. A gamepad adds barriers.

This is basically the point to me. Maybe it makes more sense when I explain that I've been enjoying watching competitive gaming for a really long time? I think it's great to have a tournament which uses a controller so that console gamers can take part, that's swell. But I'm also going to express the opinion that it's not something I'm interested in watching and explain why.

Like I said, I play most FPS with a controller these days ffs.

Well you're making it easy aren't you? Look, I'll lay it out for you, you made a couple of arguments in the beginning of this thread, they were refuted, and so you backpeddled, and then you got defensive about the whole thing. Now we're just picking on you to see how far you'll go.

The only way to win is to stop!

The only winning move is not to play?

 

[obonicus]

How doesn't this make sense? EA doesn't want to beat DOTA, they want to beat CoD, and they want to beat CoD on console. If they can offer a goofy tournament like this, it creates the unrealistic expectation that if you buy their game and get really good at it, you could actually make a lot of money.

Will it work? To some extent, undoubtedly, gamers are dumb. Will professional players migrate to BF3? I don't think EA cares; if they don't, and these tournaments aren't a one-off thing, a 'professional community' will form. Will this make the games less interesting to watch? Well, if you know enough to care about PC vs console, you probably aren't part of the demo being targeted to watch this in the first place.

 

[Jburton]

Well you're making it easy aren't you? Look, I'll lay it out for you, you made a couple of arguments in the beginning of this thread, they were refuted, and so you backpeddled, and then you got defensive about the whole thing. Now we're just picking on you to see how far you'll go.

The only way to win is to stop!

Thanks for the advice.

I will stop, will you please stop picking on me?



lol.

 

[Danne-Danger]

The only winning move is not to play?

That's the one!

 

[kokujin]

On a console is there any other alternative.

When it comes to playing on a console the mouse versus controller debate is mute as mouse control is not an option.

What you are arguing is PC over console.

http://xim3.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmHAFzzl3ac&feature=player_embedded

I might pick one up later this year.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Never said that. Just said that console gaming is generally more socially acceptable. You don't the WOW stereotype and what not. "


I don't think any form of gaming is more or less socially acceptable than any other. And the fact remains, even if console gaming were "more" socially acceptable, console gaming FPS *tournaments* certainly aren't, which is the subject of the thread.

 

[Jburton]

http://xim3.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmHAFzzl3ac&feature=player_embedded

I might pick one up later this year.

Seen that before.

Does that not make the playing field uneven?

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Nope.


Just seems to mean a lot to that other fellow that he 'wins'.


I am feeling bored and charitable.


p.s. mouse is better for FPS on PC, controller is better for FPS on console.


A mouse being better for FPS on PC means nothing to a console player.


The real argument here (being fought by proxy) is whether the PC is better than console for FPS.

That is the more accurate argument.

If you had the choice a mouse would be better than a controller on console for FPS in the same way that a wheel is better in racing sims and a stick is better in fighting games.

A controller is a jack of all trades and a master of none.

 

[nomis]

Can't wait to see whose auto-aim works better!

This is the only correct response.

You guys realize how preposterous this statement is, right?

The whole point of autoaim is that no one's works better, meaning that everyone has an identical crutch, and therefore the playing field is still level. Saying that you can't have an accurate test of skill in this environment is just more "master race" BS.

edit: I mean shit, even the term "autoaim" is obtuse in every game except Call of Duty where there is massive reticule drift. In Halo and console Battlefield, it's more accurately termed "aim assist". Autoaim sounds analogous to Aim-Bot, which is unfair (except in CoD).

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Lots of people think they're making actual arguments in this thread, when in actual fact they're really just responding to the fact that they feel insulted by the implication that a controller is a less competent aiming device than a mouse.

 

[kokujin]

Seen that before.

Does that not make the playing field uneven?

Probably, but it's an alternative, a better one at that.

 

[Danne-Danger]

You guys realize how preposterous this statement is, right?

The whole point of autoaim is that no one's works better, meaning that everyone has an identical crutch, and therefore the playing field is still level. Saying that you can't have an accurate test of skill in this environment is just more "master race" BS.

Most people are just saying that they'd rather watch a FPS being played with a M/KB, as it makes it more exciting and interesting.

And then there's the whole competitive scene thing and there being one on PC.

 

[RiccochetJ]

*snip*
The real argument here (being fought by proxy) is whether the PC is better than console for FPS.

That is the more accurate argument.

That's not the argument. Consoles are perfectly fine for FPS'. So are PCs. The argument is about the competitive scene. An argument I don't know why is taking place. They are completely different animals and should be looked at separately.

The biggest reason is because of the two input devices. They are vastly different while accomplishing the same goal. Comparing someone who is amazing with the keyboard and mouse should never be compared with someone who is amazing with a controller. It's like comparing soccer to hockey. The goal is to get it into the net, but how you get it in there is vastly different.

So can there be a competitive scene for consoles? Absolutely. The insulting thing is that they didn't make a tournament for the PC crowd who made DICE what it is today.

 

[Jburton]

You guys realize how preposterous this statement is, right?

The whole point of autoaim is that no one's works better, meaning that everyone has an identical crutch, and therefore the playing field is still level. Saying that you can't have an accurate test of skill in this environment is just more "master race" BS.

Watch out fella, they will pick on you until you stop posting in a thread about a console tournament which ironically has been hijacked by PC gamers bemoaning the fact it is on console.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Most people are just saying that they'd rather watch a FPS being played with a M/KB, as it makes it more exciting and interesting.

And then there's the whole competitive scene thing and there being one on PC.

Indeed. I can't imagine anyone cares about a tournament where the actions are not 100% based off of the input of the players.

 

[markot]

Pro PC fps gaming gave us

Nuff said.

 

[nomis]

Most people are just saying that they'd rather watch a FPS being played with a M/KB, as it makes it more exciting and interesting.

I'm not arguing that, as it's personal taste. I find both competitive PC fps like Counter Strike, and console MLG tournaments for Halo 3/Reach exciting to watch, because dual thumbstick control doesn't decrease the factor that great teamwork plays.

 

[Jburton]

Most people are just saying that they'd rather watch a FPS being played with a M/KB, as it makes it more exciting and interesting.

And then there's the whole competitive scene thing and there being one on PC.

And some said they would watch a console tournament played with controllers.


Then came the auto aim videos from PC gamers along with how stupid it was to have this tournament on consoles.


Also what does the competitive PC scene got to do with a console tournament?

 

[Jburton]

Pro PC fps gaming gave us

Nuff said.

Keep it!

 

[kokujin]

That's not the argument. Consoles are perfectly fine for FPS'. So are PCs. The argument is about the competitive scene. An argument I don't know why is taking place. They are completely different animals and should be looked at separately.

The biggest reason is because of the two input devices. They are vastly different while accomplishing the same goal. Comparing someone who is amazing with the keyboard and mouse should never be compared with someone who is amazing with a controller. It's like comparing soccer to hockey. The goal is to get it into the net, but how you get it in there is vastly different.

So can there be a competitive scene for consoles? Absolutely. The insulting thing is that they didn't make a tournament for the PC crowd who made DICE what it is today.

It's closer to seeing two games of soccer, one with children(console) and one with professionals(PC).

 

[obonicus]

I don't think any form of gaming is more or less socially acceptable than any other. And the fact remains, even if console gaming were "more" socially acceptable, console gaming FPS *tournaments* certainly aren't, which is the subject of the thread.

Honestly, the acceptability comes from the money. If people can support themselves as 'pro gamers', acceptability will follow. For most games that doesn't happen, so you just have a bunch of people who are just way intense about their hobby.

 

[Fjordson]

It's closer to seeing two games of soccer, one with children(console) and one with professionals(PC).

Wow.

Amazing topic here. Truly.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

1.6 million dollar tournament featuring the best in the world at the game vs a 1.6 million dollar tournament featuring people gimped by input methods.


I know which one I'm going to enjoy more.

They're all going to be on a level playing field using the same control method so there's no gimping.

Edit, wait...looks like this has been discussed to death over the last couple pages lol

 

[Jburton]

Indeed. I can't imagine anyone cares about a tournament where the actions are not 100% based off of the input of the players.

As a opposed to the team work and strategy.


Tournaments are solely about how good the player is on a mouse?

Twitch shooter I would agree.

Not on Battlefield.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Honestly, the acceptability comes from the money. If people can support themselves as 'pro gamers', acceptability will follow. For most games that doesn't happen, so you just have a bunch of people who are just way intense about their hobby.

Nah, it's a cultural thing. Someone like Fatality makes truckloads of cash but he doesn't get anywhere near the respect of Korean SC pros.

Wow.

Amazing topic here. Truly.

It might bother you, sure. But how much pro-gaming have you actually watched?

 

[Jburton]

It's closer to seeing two games of soccer, one with children(console) and one with professionals(PC).

Truly intelligent contribution to the debate.

Stunning!

 

[nephilimdj]

Pro PC fps gaming gave us

Nuff said.

He was lucky to be into games developers and sponsors still cared about and threw money at, sucks to be into games like counter strike.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

As a opposed to the team work and strategy.


Tournaments are solely about how good the player is on a mouse?

Twitch shooter I would agree.

Not on Battlefield.

Battlefield is a shooter. Like it or not, the shooting factors in heavily. When you're not completely in control of your shooting, then my interest in terms of it being competitive fade away pretty quickly.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not just shitting on console/gamepad FPS for the sake of it, because I play them often and enjoy them. It's just that I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend a console FPS tournament is going to be exciting.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

They're all going to be on a level playing field using the same control method so there's no gimping.

Edit, wait...looks like this has been discussed to death over the last couple pages lol

people mean that the overall quality of game will be gimped.

 

[markot]

He was lucky to be into games developers and sponsors still cared about and threw money at, sucks to be into games like counter strike.

Im guessing, hoping, Valve pushes the next CS harder. They kinda sit on it and dont do much. GO doesnt count >.<

 

[RiccochetJ]

It's closer to seeing two games of soccer, one with children(console) and one with professionals(PC).

I disagree. Are you assuming that console gamers can't figure out strategy and cooperation at a high level? The tools and skill to accomplish the goal are different. This shouldn't be an argument.

 

[computers putin']

this thread is like a bizarre parody of sorts

 

[Jburton]

Battlefield is a shooter. Like it or not, the shooting factors in heavily. When you're not completely in control of your shooting, then my interest in terms of it being competitive fade away pretty quickly.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not just shitting on console/gamepad FPS for the sake of it, because I play them often and enjoy them. It's just that I'm not going to lie to myself and pretend a console FPS tournament is going to be exciting.

Fair enough buddy.

Thats your opinion and a fair one at that.


And some might find it exciting, and thats their opinion.