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$1.6 Million Battlefield 3 Console Tournament Announced
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
And I agree with you in that respect. I still respect the skill that people have with a controller though. I still contend that this shouldn't be a PC vs Consoles thing that this thread has devolved to. Like I've said many times in this thread, there should be a tourney exclusively for PC gamers.kokujin said:
odin toelust
Member
Jburton said:
Performance =/= speed. At this point you are simply trolling me, unless you are truly that ignorant. If that is the case I am sorry for having disturbed your simplistic view on reality.
Boombloxer
Member
Ploid 3.0 said:
Anyone who says this is wrong.
But even so, as most of the game sales are going to be on consoles anyway, it makes sense to put a tournament there to help spur on the community.
Complain to EA, maybe they'll add one.
Pseudo judo
Member
I don't post here much, it's been a couple of years at least. I usually just come to see what's new in gaming news since the most pertinent stuff gets posted here.
As a console only gamer, I came to this BF3 tournament thread and found it hijacked by a bunch of PC elitists who claimed it was a waste of time, money and resources and that they couldn't be bothered with playing it and couldn't be bothered with watching it, which begs the question; why the hell are you in this thread?
Please, go dig up a console vs PC thread and indoctrinate there to your hearts content.
As for the mods. For shame...
As a console only gamer, I came to this BF3 tournament thread and found it hijacked by a bunch of PC elitists who claimed it was a waste of time, money and resources and that they couldn't be bothered with playing it and couldn't be bothered with watching it, which begs the question; why the hell are you in this thread?
Please, go dig up a console vs PC thread and indoctrinate there to your hearts content.
As for the mods. For shame...
AkuMifune said:
No one is making that argument at all.
Right. Very much agreed.
We dismiss it because they would lose most of the time to other players, as you are explicitly stating right here.
This is also why no one suggests that there should be a "no Koreans allowed" Starcraft II tournament. It isn't that the American players have no skill at all -- just as console battlefield players also have skill -- but the Koreans are even better, and tournaments are less fun when you know there are lots of players out there who could win handily, but are not included for whatever reason.
People tend to like to watch games played at their peak capacity; that's true of sports, of games like chess, of video games like Starcraft. You are explicitly admitting that this is not the the game played at its peak capacity here.
CountAntonius
Member
Pseudo judo said:
Agreed. These topics always get derailed and stupid. There has literally been zero talk of the tournament in here.
computers putin'
Member
odin toelust said:
I think that's a pretty apt comparison
I think target acquistion happens just as fast on consoles as it does on pc if youtube video's of good players are anything to go by; at least fast enough to make this a moot point. But there are no numbers to back up either of our points so let's just agree to disagree on this.I'm not arguing the skill gap here, it seems obvious to me there is a larger skill gap with kb/m. Rather I'm trying to figure out how much aim assist closes the gap in performance between pc and consoles ( or if there is even one present that is large enough worth discussing).
CountAntonius
Member
Opiate said:
Gonna have to argue with that there. Gaming viewership is very different from pro sports viewership. many of the people who follow a game competitively are also in that community. If a lot of that community only uses a pad than that part of the community will wanna see pad play. You wont have some random person who never played the game want to sit and watch pros play videogames.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So ah... any more news about the tournament? Which/how many teams are participating, where can we watch it, etc etc.
...Or are you guys still too busy spatting over each other?
...Or are you guys still too busy spatting over each other?
jim-jam bongs
Member
Pseudo Judo's post made me feel ashamed of myself 
There are a lot of other things which you need to consider, it's not just aim assist. When you are playing a game in which the main way of changing direction is to change your view (i.e. FPS and TPS which use that same camera control technique) movement changes quite dramatically between controller and M/KB setups. I think you'd find that KB/M players would be able to exploit the slower turning and reliance on stick-strafing which you see with controllers, but obviously I'm biased.
computers putin' said:
There are a lot of other things which you need to consider, it's not just aim assist. When you are playing a game in which the main way of changing direction is to change your view (i.e. FPS and TPS which use that same camera control technique) movement changes quite dramatically between controller and M/KB setups. I think you'd find that KB/M players would be able to exploit the slower turning and reliance on stick-strafing which you see with controllers, but obviously I'm biased.
Opiate said:
The huge difference in this analogy is that you can watch a Starcraft match and clearly view higher skill in action, while if you were watching a Battlefield match on consoles or a Battlefield match on PC and you didn't know which platform it was being played on, you might not even be able to tell.
If it were a kb/m vs controller match you would, but that isn't the point. The point is that an amazing match of Battlefield is an amazing match of Battlefield regardless of the platform it's being played on. All this bunk that it's gimped or inferior is just ignorance in action.
odin toelust
Member
Jburton said:
How did you start talking of rally cars if I never mentioned it? Fucking moron. /flame
I mentioned the rally car in my second post. The one in which I explicitly said that is what I was thinking about when making the analogy. I am sorry for not completely fleshing out my argument in my original post. You are a troll because you flat out ignored my response and simply stated something about getting up to speed more quickly, which is not an adequate response to even begin to disprove either of my arguments. If you can not understand that speed is not the be all end all in performance when it comes to cars, then I understand why you are unable to comprehend the fact that a console tournament does not offer the same spectacle of skill as a PC tournament would.
In the end that is why I am disappointed in the lack of a PC tournament, we simply will not be watching the highest level of play possible, which, for me, is important if I am to watch an esport. For instance, I watch some Starcraft II events besides the GSL, but it is easy to see the difference in skill level and it is not as entertaining to me. That will most likely be the case with this tournament, I'll watch some, but become disenchanted when I start to think about how much better it could be.
Who cares what platform it's on? At least there's stuff like this going on, the more and more focus on these large cash tournaments the better for e-sports, and of course, gaming.
As far as inputs go, gimped aiming vs gimped movement. They both do something better than the other, deal with it PC-only and console-only GAF.
As far as inputs go, gimped aiming vs gimped movement. They both do something better than the other, deal with it PC-only and console-only GAF.
jim-jam bongs
Member
AkuMifune said:
I'm pretty sure I'd be able to tell. Unless the PC players were deliberately using controllers to make it harder, in which case I'm not really sure your argument works.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So... the tournament?
you mean, it's a fair fight all in all?J-Rzez said:
time for another round of "let's take it to quake live".
your answer is either "sure, i'll fire up xpadder" or "sorry, i'm running my mouth because untested false equivalencies are all i've got left. i'll shut my hole now."
odin toelust
Member
AkuMifune said:
I agree to the extent that you will be watching a different type of battlefield game PC vs Console. Just as you are watching a different type of game when it is a Korean pro vs most foreign pro SCII players. If a competitive scene develops on both the PC and consoles i think that you will see a different type of game played on PC vs on console.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
J-Rzez said:
There's nothing gimped about movement on PC thanks to the huge range of movement allowed by the mouse, and having three fingers resting on the movement keys. I can switch between strafing to moving backwards or forwards way faster on a keyboard than a controller (FPS only, that's why I have a 360 controller for everything else).
odin toelust
Member
Jburton said:
Why is my first post the only one that is relevant?
Anyway nice job once again not responding to any of my arguments.
ARXIN said:
This doesn't seem to be empirically true, does it? Because competitive PC gaming is far more popular than console competitive gaming -- except for fighters.
This suggests that most people do, in fact, care quite a bit. When consoles have a superior control scheme, people are excited to watch. When they don't, people don't seem to watch.
odin toelust
Member
Jburton said:
lol
edit: in a good way. (just to be sure)
Besides all this PC > console drama, this can only mean good things for video games and the status of "e-sports." $1.6 million isn't something to sneeze at, since $1 million is still the grand prize for a lot of TV game shows out there, so it still carries some weight.
Personally, I find the team based shooters less interesting to watch (besides CS because of its one life per round) than something like 1v1 SC2. Unless they have knowledgeable people running the broadcast, you end up watching the wrong perspectives most of the time. I can't imagine it's very easy to commentate on a 6v6 match, either. I say this as someone who plays a bunch of Call of Duty: I watched about 20 minutes of the Black Ops tournament at the most recent MLG event and became bored very quickly.
I think it would be cool if they played a really large game like 16v16 or something. It could be BF3's niche where most e-sports are very small in scale, there could be BF3 "teams" with a 15-20 man roster. I don't see it happening, but I think it would be interesting to watch a match of that size take place, and focusing on each teams different squads, similar to the offense and defense of a football team.
Personally, I find the team based shooters less interesting to watch (besides CS because of its one life per round) than something like 1v1 SC2. Unless they have knowledgeable people running the broadcast, you end up watching the wrong perspectives most of the time. I can't imagine it's very easy to commentate on a 6v6 match, either. I say this as someone who plays a bunch of Call of Duty: I watched about 20 minutes of the Black Ops tournament at the most recent MLG event and became bored very quickly.
I think it would be cool if they played a really large game like 16v16 or something. It could be BF3's niche where most e-sports are very small in scale, there could be BF3 "teams" with a 15-20 man roster. I don't see it happening, but I think it would be interesting to watch a match of that size take place, and focusing on each teams different squads, similar to the offense and defense of a football team.
jim-jam bongs
Member
jim-jam bongs said:
Sorry to quote myself but I wanted to add some stuff.
One thing I wanted to say is that controllers can do 3rd person games far better than a keyboard and mouse, in my opinion, with the caveat that they need to put their best foot forward and not use the camera direction = movement direction paradigm. In that situation the keyboard is genuinely limited, short of using the numpad to improve the directional control inputs possible, or simply controlling it like an FPS where you can't strafe.
ghst said:
Naw, I mean I do fine on both, and I enjoy playing on both consoles and PCs. I find the controller movement more enjoyable, and mouse aiming is better. Deal with it, and play both better. You didn't lose because of the controller, or the mouse, you lost because someone's better. Can't we all just get along?!
odin toelust said:
It was the one I responded to with my response to your analogy.
Also I explained that I would usually take a comparison between manual and automatic shift as something to do with moving up gears quickly to accelerate quicker in a drag race for example.
Never seen anyone talk about automatics vs manual shift in reference to rally cars.
And the last post was generally you calling me a fucking moron, troll and accusing me of flame baiting.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
J-Rzez said:
We're not talking about which is better to play with anyway, we're talking about which is better to watch.
CountAntonius
Member
Opiate said:
The games that get that massive viewership are PC exclusives that have had communities growing for over a decade. Which goes back to my point that it's the communities that view these games. If it so happened that a game where console players had larger numbers than most likely pad play would be what most people wanna see. For example go to twitch tv and look up the CoD streams. most of them are on console even though it's also a PC game. My point is these people want to watch great players in their community. So having a console only tournament is perfectly fine for a game that will have millions of players on consoles.
jim-jam bongs
Member
In the interests of peace, I've come up with a perfect and uncontroversial analogy:
American Football = FPS with a controller
Rugby = FPS with a keyboard and mouse
Come on, surely nobody could be offended by that?
American Football = FPS with a controller
Rugby = FPS with a keyboard and mouse
Come on, surely nobody could be offended by that?