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[Jburton]

well it is Battlefield. Its not like you really need precision aiming anyway.

Now you have done it!

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Besides all this PC > console drama, this can only mean good things for video games and the status of "e-sports." $1.6 million isn't something to sneeze at, since $1 million is still the grand prize for a lot of TV game shows out there, so it still carries some weight.

Personally, I find the team based shooters less interesting to watch (besides CS because of its one life per round) than something like 1v1 SC2. Unless they have knowledgeable people running the broadcast, you end up watching the wrong perspectives most of the time. I can't imagine it's very easy to commentate on a 6v6 match, either. I say this as someone who plays a bunch of Call of Duty: I watched about 20 minutes of the Black Ops tournament at the most recent MLG event and became bored very quickly.

I think it would be cool if they played a really large game like 16v16 or something. It could be BF3's niche where most e-sports are very small in scale, there could be BF3 "teams" with a 15-20 man roster. I don't see it happening, but I think it would be interesting to watch a match of that size take place, and focusing on each teams different squads, similar to the offense and defense of a football team.

I watch Star Craft 2 commentary vids too. I don't care much for the FPS stuff. Though, like you said, I liked the counter strike stuff because it was no respawn like Socom, and interesting. With people commentating Star Craft 2, and doing it well, it makes for a interesting video even though I have no clue what is what without them. I don't know any other egame cast like star craft 2, I guess that could be why it gets the hits.

Oh I liked the 1 vs 1 halo matches on the Directv Championship Gaming stuff. I'm addicted to the fighting casts also, bring on Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3. I'd rather watch all these games played (SC2, UMVC3, Counterstrike) with awesome commentary than to play it myself. There's no way I'm playing Star Craft 2 hah.

 

[Laughing Banana]

its increasingly been getting this way around here for the last few years. it is a shame, i agree.

It seems like this thread about the tournament is filled mostly by those who do not care about it, who are not interested in seeing it, who are not interested in participating in it, and who do not want anything to do with it, hahaha.

 

[Jburton]

In the interests of peace, I've come up with a perfect and uncontroversial analogy:

American Football = FPS with a controller
Rugby = FPS with a keyboard and mouse

Come on, surely nobody could be offended by that?

You can't throw to the side with keyboard and mouse?

How strange!

 

[odin toelust]

It was the one I responded to with my response to your analogy.

Also I explained that I would usually take a comparison between manual and automatic shift as something to do with moving up gears quickly to accelerate quicker in a drag race for example.

Never seen anyone talk about automatics vs manual shift in reference to rally cars.


And the last post was generally you calling me a fucking moron, troll and accusing me of flame baiting.

And once I cleared up what I was thinking of with my analogy the discussion could have continued from that point and all would have been well in the world.

I apologize for using an analogy that you don't have any familiarity with. A manual transmission gives you better control of your vehicle, thus resulting in increased performance. It has very little to do with straight line acceleration.

Perhaps a better analogy for you would have been something along the lines of a homemade vs storebought pie, although that is far more subjective.

 

[Jburton]

And once I cleared up what I was thinking of with my analogy the discussion could have continued from that point and all would have been well in the world.

I apologize for using an analogy that you don't have any familiarity with. A manual transmission gives you better control of your vehicle, thus resulting in increased performance. It has very little to do with straight line acceleration.

I know manual gives better control (hence I have never heard of an automatic rally car).

And wouldn't most quarter mile drag racers use stick shift (production cars).

Manual shift would help usually in terms of acceleration, unless I am very wrong.

 

[odin toelust]

I know manual gives better control (hence I have never heard of an automatic rally car).

And wouldn't most quarter mile drag racers use stick shift (production cars).

Manual shift would help usually in terms of acceleration, unless I am very wrong.

It gives you better control all around. Needed for deceleration as well.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Just as useful in deceleration.

And most importantly of all having the correct gear already selected when you accelerate out of a turn.

Wait, what are we talking about?

 

[-COOLIO-]

awesome

 

[odin toelust]

And most importantly of all having the correct gear already selected when you accelerate out of a turn.

Wait, what are we talking about?

Thank you I was trying to find a way to put that but was somehow unable to

edit: not sure what we were talking about but I'm pretty sure jburton proved my point when he said he had never heard of a rally race w/ automatics

 

[Jburton]

And most importantly of all having the correct gear already selected when you accelerate out of a turn.

Wait, what are we talking about?

Battlefield 3 console tournament.

 

[Opiate]

The games that get that massive viewership are PC exclusives that have had communities growing for over a decade. Which goes back to my point that it's the communities that view these games. If it so happened that a game where console players had larger numbers than most likely pad play would be what most people wanna see. For example go to twitch tv and look up the CoD streams. most of them are on console even though it's also a PC game. My point is these people want to watch great players in their community. So having a console only tournament is perfectly fine for a game that will have millions of players on consoles.

Then how do you explain why Halo doesn't do particularly well? It is not only a decade old, it has massive funding from Microsoft.

I understand that there are lots of CoD streams. And Halo tournaments. The point is that they are not very popular, relatively speaking.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Then how do you explain why Halo doesn't do particularly well? It is not only a decade old, it has massive funding from Microsoft.

I understand that there are lots of CoD streams. And Halo tournaments. The point is that they are not very popular, relatively speaking.

FPS doesn't make for very good watching, even on the PC.

 

[J-Rzez]

We're not talking about which is better to play with anyway, we're talking about which is better to watch.

Then what's the problem if all things are equal again?

 

[CountAntonius]

Then how do you explain why Halo doesn't do particularly well? It is not only a decade old, it has massive funding from Microsoft.

I understand that there are lots of CoD streams. And Halo tournaments. The point is that they are not very popular, relatively speaking.

They do quiet well actually you just can't compare them to SC and Dota games cause the communities for those games are absolutely massive and they are basically national sports in many parts of Asia.

Outside of those comparisons they do as good as any other shooter and outperform many FPS games on PC too spite the smaller skill gap.

If what you said is true than QuakeLive tournaments should get a ton more viewers because the skill ceiling in that game is sky high, yet the scene is pretty stale in NA and is only somewhat active in Europe.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

PC Tournaments = The world Cup
Console = 5 a side football....on astroturf.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

FPS doesn't make for very good watching, even on the PC.

Really? I dunno, I enjoy them but it does depend heavily on the game. One of the things I'm really looking forward to is seeing ValveTV implemented widely so I can watch more stuff of all genres.

 

[TheExodu5]

PC Tournaments = The world Cup
Console = 5 a side football....on astroturf.

More like football on ice.

FPS doesn't make for very good watching, even on the PC.

I agree.

 

[DireStr8s]

i thought we coverered all this in the crysis port thread.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

More like football on ice.

Subbuteo even. lol

 

[Booshka]

Wait, what are we talking about?

.

 

[eek5]

FPS doesn't make for very good watching, even on the PC.

I agree. I just don't find them exciting to watch at all regardless of what platform or control scheme people are using.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

More like football on ice.

How about football in water, with sharks, and electric eels haha.

I agree. I just don't find them exciting to watch at all regardless of what platform or control scheme people are using.

Too many point of views, confrontation don't last long, and things are usually too hectic to keep up with having that limited viewing. You're bound to miss a lot. SC2's over head view and open maps (no battle going on in covered buildings) is better. I also prefer SC2 games where it's 1v1.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

You guys are taunting the beast... it waits with links to every frag vid on YouTube for moments just like these.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Then what's the problem if all things are equal again?

Well a controller game looks like this

And a M/KB game looks like this

Troll

 

[charsace]

This thread is hilarious. There are only certain types of shooters that console gamers can't do well in with a controller. And those are the fast games like quake 3 and UT. And even in those games on the dreamcast there are people that did well.

I've personally played Halo pc with a controller and played a lot of shadowrun and did well against pc players. I've played CSS and TF2 on decent servers and I've done ok against them too. The only problem I've had is at times turning completely around can be difficult. The truth is that most PC players don't have aiming skills "leet" enough to dominate console players like they think they would.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

You guys are taunting the beast... it waits with links to every frag vid on YouTube for moments just like these.

Oh I like frag vids. That I can sit and watch. There's a TF2 demo frag vid that's wonderfully done, and show mainly the highlights.

This thread is hilarious. There are only certain types of shooters that console gamers can't do well in with a controller. And those are the fast games like quake 3 and UT. And even in those games on the dreamcast there are people that did well.

I've personally played Halo pc with a controller and played a lot of shadowrun and did well against pc players. I've played CSS and TF2 on decent servers and I've done ok against them too. The only problem I've had is at times turning completely around can be difficult. The truth is that most PC players don't have aiming skills "leet" enough to dominate console players like they think they would.

Raises hand. I kinda avoid PC FPS games because I still suck with mouse and keyboard. I played TF2 on console more than PC. I enjoyed it more on console. I'm just too used to analogs. Maybe I should look into one of those hand keyboards with the analog on the side, and continue wrestling with the mouse.

 

[eek5]

Oh I like frag vids. That I can sit and watch. There's a TF2 demo frag vid that's wonderfully done, and show mainly the highlights.

I think this is partially why FPS isn't fun to watch live as well. At high level everyone is just dying so they're switching point of views and half the time the guy just dies. Streaks seem incredibly rare when everyone is good. I rather just watch a montage or play myself

 

[CountAntonius]

Not saying I don't see your point but comparing a random pub game on xbl to a classic match between two Quake gods isn't a very fair comparison.

 

[nomis]

Well a controller game looks like this

And a M/KB game looks like this

Troll

Ahhh, yes. Comparing amateurs on console to professionals on PC.

Your self stated troll aside, maybe if there was ever a competitive Quake Arena scene on a console we would have a proper "excitement of play" comparison.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Not saying I don't see your point but comparing a random pub game on xbl to a classic match between two Quake gods isn't a very fair comparison.

Hence my self satisfied troll comment. Someone post some high level Halo or something, I wanna see how these ultra tactical console bros play.

 

[Pranay]

FPS doesn't make for very good watching, even on the PC.

This ^
Agreed

 

[TheExodu5]

Hence my self satisfied troll comment. Someone post some high level Halo or something, I wanna see how these ultra tactical console bros play.

nade spam

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I think this is partially why FPS isn't fun to watch live as well. At high level everyone is just dying so they're switching point of views and half the time the guy just dies. Streaks seem incredibly rare when everyone is good. I rather just watch a montage or play myself

This does happen a lot with team-based games for sure, the best competitive FPS to watch is duelling. A big part of the problem though is that the games usually have fairly basic spectating options. If you designed your game with features specifically meant to make it easier to watch I think that would change.

The only examples I have are DOTA2 and SC2, which obviously aren't FPS. Still I do think they demonstrate how much better spectator mode can be, considering their original incarnations.

 

[CountAntonius]

Hence my self satisfied troll comment. Someone post some high level Halo or something, I wanna see how these ultra tactical console bros play.

Posting halo vs Quake 3 is about as dull as posting any other PC game vs Quake 3. Nothing compares Console or PC. Better comparison would be posting CoD frags vids from both console and PC. Though I don't care to cause I accept there is a difference there, but think both communities are worthy of tournaments.

 

[Grayman]

Hence my self satisfied troll comment. Someone post some high level Halo or something, I wanna see how these ultra tactical console bros play.

I watched a video here once and did not have much fun.

 

[subversus]

auto aim/skill ceiling.

still elitist circle jerk

 

[Opiate]

Hence my self satisfied troll comment. Someone post some high level Halo or something, I wanna see how these ultra tactical console bros play.

Don't do this, please. This thread already has more than enough hostilities as it is.

As I see it, the hostilities stem from two issues, one on each side:

1) PC gamers often deliberately condescend, with the intention of riling console gamers up. This is not productive and I presume is done just to feel good about your platform of choice.

2) At the same time, the PC is unquestionably the superior platform for the display of skill for FPS. Many people twist and turn and refuse to simply say this. Some say it's not true; some say it is true, but it's tiny and nobody cares; some say it may be true, but nobody cares because FPS are more popular on consoles.

I think the entire argument could be ended if PC gamers didn't deliberately condescend. At the same time, they are correct that the PC offers a higher skill ceiling for FPS, and the argument could be similarly ended if people would stop fighting that truth like their life depended on it.

I would compare this argument -- crudely -- to a jerk who gets in an argument, but happens to be right. The argument wouldn't even get started if the jerk wasn't such a jerk, but it could be ended if people would admit he's got a point. It's quite hard to admit that, however, simply because human nature doesn't enjoy it.

As a last point, I think consoles have a great place in gaming and should not be ridiculed so. There are many great games on all three home console systems, offer ease of use that is beneficial for many consumers, and in many cases offer highly competitive input methods, like with Fighting games.

 

[Khal_B]

When it comes to FPS tourneys, the only ones I take seriously are on PC. But since this is more of a marketing move than anything else, I can see why they went with consoles.

 

[Woo-Fu]

If miniature golf can have tournaments so can console FPS.

 

[Grayman]

If miniature golf can have tournaments so can console FPS.

what about miniature golf with magnets pulling the balls along the correct path?

 

[bangai-o]

i am actually starting to consider that precision mouse control is not even the main attribute of Quake and Unreal. The way you really master those two games is by memorizing the map, time the weapon spawns, time the opponent spawns, predict the best routes that your opponent will take, and fire your weapon in predictive aim. You have to master everything before you even fire your gun.

ill take this moment to also call out the elitists that want to antagonize the console gamers, and say most of you probably never even touched Quake or Unreal. You're "first person shooters" of today are slow paced crud when compared to the real deal in 1999.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

what about miniature golf with magnets pulling the balls along the correct path?

Felt good didn't it?

Some posts makes me think of Wheatley from Portal 2 getting high on testing, and now it's starting to wear out so new things are thrown in to see if it scratch the itch.

 

[spootime]

Ughhh.. This is really disappointing. I can see why they would put it on console but seriously the PC version is gonna look a lot better.

I just hope companies don't try to put CS:GO tournaments on console.

 

[Momo]

Hey, fuck it I'm going to enter if possible. Score some cash and go all NEET

 

[AkuMifune]

2) At the same time, the PC is unquestionably the superior platform for the display of skill for FPS.

It's an argument PC gamers have tried to deflect in this thread over and over again, but to insinuate that Battlefield plays like Quake is to just be a troll.

For any other run of the mill FPS, yes, PC provides a higher ceiling for skill. But there are games of Battlefield where I've single-handedly led teams to victory and was only in a few skirmishes; because I was sneaking, running, capturing points and sniping from afar. When I did get in a skirmish I came out on top with quick headshots. The improved responsiveness a mouse would have given me would have been milliseconds, maybe. In these matches a kb/m enemy would have been fucking useless. To argue otherwise is to not even know what game we're talking about here.

Even if you want to make the claim that watching a console match of Battlefield is inferior, I would hope you can at least admit the degree of difference between control inputs is much less than most other FPS where the point is just to kill faster than the other guy.

 

[Danne-Danger]

It's an argument PC gamers have tried to deflect in this thread over and over again, but to insinuate that Battlefield plays like Quake is to just be a troll.

For any other run of the mill FPS, yes, PC provides a higher ceiling for skill. But there are games of Battlefield where I've single-handedly led teams to victory and was only in a few skirmishes; because I was sneaking, running, capturing points and sniping from afar. When I did get in a skirmish I came out on top with quick headshots. The improved responsiveness a mouse would have given me would have been milliseconds, maybe. In these matches a kb/m enemy would have been fucking useless. To argue otherwise is to not even know what game we're talking about here.

Even if you want to make the claim that watching a console match of Battlefield is inferior, I would hope you can at least admit the degree of difference between control inputs is much less than most other FPS where the point is just to kill faster than the other guy.

Well generally you could argue that a player with M/KB would look around more and maybe check odd angles more often (since it's faster/easier with a mouse), making it harder to sneak around!

 

[bangai-o]

2) At the same time, the PC is unquestionably the superior platform for the display of skill for FPS.

disagree. Just because you can take a stance that sounds more mature than the others posting arguments doesnt make it true.

 

[Opiate]

It's an argument PC gamers have tried to deflect in this thread over and over again, but to insinuate that Battlefield plays like Quake is to just be a troll.

For any other run of the mill FPS, yes, PC provides a higher ceiling for skill. But there are games of Battlefield where I've single-handedly led teams to victory and was only in a few skirmishes; because I was sneaking, running, capturing points and sniping from afar. When I did get in a skirmish I came out on top with quick headshots. The improved responsiveness a mouse would have given me would have been milliseconds, maybe. In these matches a kb/m enemy would have been fucking useless. To argue otherwise is to not even know what game we're talking about here.

Even if you want to make the claim that watching a console match of Battlefield is inferior, I would hope you can at least admit the degree of difference between control inputs is much less than most other FPS where the point is just to kill faster than the other guy.

This is exactly the sort of response I'd like to avoid.

All you have to do is say, "Yes, the PC has a higher skill ceiling for FPS games." You actually said that in this rather long post, but then had to couch that statement in three paragraphs of "yes but it's less important in this particular game" and "Is this difference really a big deal to people?"

A lot of this discussion would end if you'd just say "Yes the PC has a higher skill ceiling for FPS games, including Battlefield" and left it at that.

Here, I'll start: game pads have a higher skill ceiling for fighting games. Steering wheel attachments have a higher skill ceiling for auto racers.

This is not about console vs. PC, this is about seeing the highest skills possible put on display.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

PC has a higher ceiling for skill in a fps.

Gaming on pads is not going to prevent you from being skillful in FPS games.

GL on the tournament for the people entering.
HF and stuff.

Jets!