Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The SeriesS has the same SSD and io benefits as the XSXI think I see the issue here. You're using an Xbox S which is a glorified Xbox One pro
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The SeriesS has the same SSD and io benefits as the XSXI think I see the issue here. You're using an Xbox S which is a glorified Xbox One pro
Whoa, lots of games designed for last gen systems as lead platforms manage to run on last gen systems too… shocked really .So, before this gen launched, I, among others, was sceptical that new gen was much more powerful than the previous one, but all everyone told me about was the new shinny tech we were getting: SSDs!
Those were supposed to be the revolution in the use of memory, basically allowing developers to imagine worlds and systems so complex we couldn't really understand. I thought it was just fast loads, but my take was mentioned as ignorant, at best.
Cue 2 years laters and... Yeah, I'm still waiting on this tech doing anything substantial. In fact, this entire new gen has been pushing so little boundaries that almost every game is cross gen. I have my series s as game pass machine and it's great, but I sure as hell don't buy on the power of these new consoles, and specially on those special SSD.
All games made so far can run on last gen still, with some simple downgrades, it seems.
Am I wrong? There was any game making use of this technology that i didn't got to see how big is the difference? Is the new gen disappointing for you?
We discover that if you accept a long initial load and have a lot more ram you can avoid needing an SSD and a fast decompression pipeline to make up for the costly RAM you were not able to add to your design… .None of that requires an ssd. Just adequate ram.
What he doesn't know is it has to be GDDR, not RAM. RAM is still to slow and only used to store compressed files before decompressing and sending it to the GDDR.We discover that if you accept a long initial load and have a lot more ram you can avoid needing an SSD and a fast decompression pipeline to make up for the costly RAM you were not able to add to your design… .
What he doesn't know is it has to be GDDR, not RAM. RAM is still to slow and only used to store compressed files before decompressing and sending it to the GDDR.
Some games are roughly 80 GB in size.
So 80GB of GDDR minimum, to load the entire game in VRAM.
Maybe more with RTX IO.
I can't imagine the cost of that GPU.
You need to read all the replies then.Why would anyone try to fit a full game in vram?
And yes, DDR5 is slower than GDDR6. But DRR4 and DDR5 are many times faster than any SSD in the market.
So devs usually use it to stream data to the GPU.
You need to read all the replies then.
I read them.
But what you said makes no sense. There is no need to have all in vram.
The CPU can decompress data, store it in ram, and send it to the GPU as requested.
This is how it works today. Ram is fast enough to do this.
Yes, but an HDD isn't. Isn't that the entire point you're trying to make, that if you have enough RAM you don't need fast storage? That only works up to a certain point.
Fast storage + a balanced amount of RAM (that you can keep fed at all times without having to waste a ton of it for just-in-case scenarios) is the far more efficient solution. I.e. what the consoles (PS5 in particular) went with. Tons of RAM with CPU decompression from slow storage is the inefficient brute force method.
It’s just a factual statement. I’m not saying it is ideal.We discover that if you accept a long initial load and have a lot more ram you can avoid needing an SSD and a fast decompression pipeline to make up for the costly RAM you were not able to add to your design… .
An HDD would require a larger pool of cached ram, as not to stutter.
And yes, you are correct, the best way is to have a balanced system with fast SSD, fast I/O system, fast file system, and a good amount of vram and ram.
But because MS has spent the last decade slacking off, now the PC is well behind in the I/O and file system.
Like I said in previous threads, the biggest bottleneck in PC gaming is not the hardware, it's Microsoft.
So SSD’s make sense and their power is being felt .It’s just a factual statement. I’m not saying it is ideal.
The best scenario would probably be around 20-24 GBs of ram along with an average ssd. Neither console maker went that route because of cost.
Not just HW, look at software support for DirectStorage on PC… we are still miles away from what console games can and are using today.Yeah. But even if MS had done better on the software side, PCs still don't have the fully integrated I/O hardware pipeline from storage to VRAM like the PS5 was designed with. RTX I/O + DirectStorage kinda bridges that gap, but not quite fully I believe?
Yeah. But even if MS had done better on the software side, PCs still don't have the fully integrated I/O hardware pipeline the PS5 was designed with. RTX I/O + DirectStorage kinda bridges that gap, but not quite fully I believe?
Even if nothing came of the SSD's from a game design angle, the fact that console load times have gone from sometimes minutes, to seconds, well that alone would be worth it.
Nice, thanks for the link .Much is being spoken about the PS5 compression hardware. But sadly little about it's advanced file system.
I recommend reding about it on anandtech, as they did an amazing job at it.
The thing that is missing in the PC is the hardware decompression. But had MS done it's job a decade ago, SSD manufacturers would probably have created more advanced decompression hardware.
Mind you that SSDs on PC also use controllers that can compress and decompress data, since Sata SSDs.
Much is being spoken about the PS5 compression hardware. But sadly little about it's advanced file system.
I recommend reding about it on anandtech, as they did an amazing job at it.
The thing that is missing in the PC is the hardware decompression. But had MS done it's job a decade ago, SSD manufacturers would probably have created more advanced decompression hardware.
Mind you that SSDs on PC also use controllers that can compress and decompress data, since Sata SSDs.
Nice, thanks for the link .
On top of advancemente on their file system and software I/O stack, there is plenty of custom HW beside the Kraken or BCPACK decompressor units (and the OS and games take advantage of it which is the problem in the PC space, getting it agreed, available pervasively enough and used by devs). The OS and tools devs can rely on the HW support being there in every single unit and can design powerful and efficient ways for games to tap into that too.
This is what I like about both console designs, the ability to review and design an end to end solution. It is no surprise that the company with less PC legacy was able to go even further in designing custom software and HW (it is not about being smarter or not, sometimes legacy holds you back a lot).
The Kraken unit is a HW decoder so yeah they can side step it but the other ARM cores (they have a custom SSD controller + the custom I/O SoC) handling memory mapping, coherency, fine grained cache invalidation, etc… would then need to pick up the slack.Mind you that the PS5 controller is not some ultra customized, fixed function unit. It's a regular 3 core ARM controller.
This means it can do all compression algorithms that Sony needs to. So if a few years from now someone develops a new compression algorithm, Sony can probably just use it on their SSD with a mere firmware update.
I read it, again another ecosystem which less of a forever BC legacy as Windows, but good plot .A PC could also use a similar controller. The issue is still the software side, mostly MS and Windows.
Legacy compatibility is nice, but MS has done away with it several times. For example, just recently, MS enforced the use of TPM with W11. So lots of hardware was left behind because of that.
MS could have already introduced a more advanced file system and I/O subsystem, many years ago. But they are too busy filling up Windows with bloatware and spyware.
If you read that anandtech article, you will see mentions to a Linux file system, reminiscent of what Sony has done in the PS5. They had done it several years before MS.
MS is slacking off so much, that even on their flagship console, there is still no games with support for Direct Storage. Two years after release.
On the PC we have RTX/IO hardware since 2018, with Turing GPUs. But 4 years later and there is still no game that uses it, because devs were all waiting for MS.
And now it's going to take a while for devs to get a handle with it. So adoption will be slow.
I think Xbox delivered more than I expected. I didn't realize the SSD was a function of QR and I didn't think QR would be a big deal, now I wonder how we ever lived without it.Difference being Microsoft fans didnt expect anything that they have not delivered regarding there SSD.
Indeed, quick resume is an amazing feature.I think Xbox delivered more than I expected. I didn't realize the SSD was a function of QR and I didn't think QR would be a big deal, now I wonder how we ever lived without it.
I never expected the SSD to virtually eliminate the load times on 360 era Bethesda RPGs and since those are some of my all-time favorite games with the most obnoxious loading times and frequency that's a giant benefit for me.
Also, as others have said the Series X/S SSD were never hyped to perform miracles, so thinking about it some more I would say it has over-delivered for Xbox. No the SSDs are not BS.