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[tedtropy]

I've always liked the Accord. A nice ride and it really feels like a substancial car - like you're really paying for quality. While the hybrid isn't the sexiest looking car in the world, I'm damn impressed by what Honda has pulled off with this one...

Starting MSRP: $30,140. Whoo.

 

[Tarazet]

I've always liked the Accord. A nice ride and it really feels like a substancial car - like you're really paying for quality. While the hybrid isn't the sexiest looking car in the world, I'm damn impressed by what Honda has pulled off with this one...

Starting MSRP: $30,140. Whoo.

It's expensive, but it's excellent. They made a mistake by requiring leather seats, though. There are a good number of greenies who ain't going to like that.

 

[tedtropy]

It's expensive, but it's excellent. They made a mistake by requiring leather seats, though. There are a good number of greenies who ain't going to like that.

Hah, yeah, kind of odd that that wasn't an option.

 

[impirius]

Also it has real rainforest wood paneling

 

[tedtropy]

Also it has real rainforest wood paneling

So long as the trees involved were used to beat some rare breeds of monkeys to death, I'm cool with it.

 

[DarienA]

As a huge Honda fan the biggest problem I've had with this hybrid since it's release is the price. I wouldn't be buying it for the hybrid functionality, I'd be buying it because it's performance is better than the EX Accord, but at that price I could easily look elsewhere for better performance.

Now as a hybrid vehicle you have to expect to pay the premiums... Hell the Lexus 400h is what $7-$10,000 more according to some article than the 330?

 

[Culex]

I don't understand the justification in that price. Sure you're saving a bit more gas, but by the time you break even, it'll be 8 or 9 years, and you'll probably have a new car by then.

 

[DarienA]

I don't understand the justification in that price. Sure you're saving a bit more gas, but by the time you break even, it'll be 8 or 9 years, and you'll probably have a new car by then.

Do hybrid vehicle purchases still get a tax break? I can't remember....

 

[Funky Papa]

It makes lots of sense for us europeans. Here gas costs about €1 per litre. A full tank is >$78.

 

[Tarazet]

As a huge Honda fan the biggest problem I've had with this hybrid since it's release is the price. I wouldn't be buying it for the hybrid functionality, I'd be buying it because it's performance is better than the EX Accord, but at that price I could easily look elsewhere for better performance.

Now as a hybrid vehicle you have to expect to pay the premiums... Hell the Lexus 400h is what $7-$10,000 more according to some article than the 330?

Lexus hasn't released an official figure on the 400h yet, but since it's going to be a V-8 where the RX330 has a V-6, that sounds about right. It's an interesting approach, putting this technology at the top end. In the past, the fuel-economy leaders have been strippers with no features to speak of (CR-X HF, Civic VX/HX, Tercel, Echo). No standard power steering, even, let alone amenities like a radio or A/C. But since this technology is so much more complex than the simple valve jobs or whatnot that those cars had, they're being positioned as luxury models. Even the Civic Hybrid is as well equipped as the top-rung EX model.

Eventually, I hope they go back to the old mold. I would happily buy an Accord Hybrid with a four-cylinder and a 5-speed and drive it forever.

 

[DarienA]

Lexus hasn't released an official figure on the 400h yet, but since it's going to be a V-8 where the RX330 has a V-6, that sounds about right. It's an interesting approach, putting this technology at the top end. In the past, the fuel-economy leaders have been strippers with no features to speak of (CR-X HF, Civic VX/HX, Tercel, Echo). No standard power steering, even, let alone amenities like a radio or A/C. But since this technology is so much more complex than the simple valve jobs or whatnot that those cars had, they're being positioned as luxury models. Even the Civic Hybrid is as well equipped as the top-rung EX model.

Eventually, I hope they go back to the old mold. I would happily buy an Accord Hybrid with a four-cylinder and a 5-speed and drive it forever.

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Lexus' hotly anticipated RX 400h luxury hybrid will have a suggested sticker price of $48,535 when it comes out April 15, the company said Monday.

Google news search on Lexus price

EDIT:

I really hate the body style of the new Accords. I have a 2000 model EX and love the body style and passed on upgrading to a newer model because of my hate for the new body style. That said, I love Hondas and my next car will either be an Accord, some model Acura, or (if I happen to win some Vegas jackpot) a 5 series or greater BMW.

I agree somewhat, I like the nose... hate the rear end lighting arrangement.

 

[tmdorsey]

I really hate the body style of the new Accords. I have a 2000 model EX and love the body style and passed on upgrading to a newer model because of my hate for the new body style. That said, I love Hondas and my next car will either be an Accord, some model Acura, or (if I happen to win some Vegas jackpot) a 5 series or greater BMW.

 

[Culex]

Do hybrid vehicle purchases still get a tax break? I can't remember....

Only in California, unless the tax laws changed.

Also, the new Civic looks like the old Accord. My 2004 Civic looks nearly identical to a '99 or 2000 Accord.

 

[Tarazet]

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Lexus' hotly anticipated RX 400h luxury hybrid will have a suggested sticker price of $48,535 when it comes out April 15, the company said Monday.

Ouch. (Seems like I was wrong about the V-8 part, too.) I'm thinking of how that price stacks up in comparison with the competition... 268 horsepower isn't really a whole lot in today's market. The Honda Pilot has 260, runs on regular gas and retails under $30K.

 

[AntoneM]

Do hybrid vehicle purchases still get a tax break? I can't remember....

I believe they do in AZ, as long as they qualify as an alternative fuel vehicle

 

[DarienA]

Went and checked myself:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

Vehicles in the table to the right may be eligible for a "clean fuel" deduction of $2,000 for those placed in service by the end of 2005 or $500 for those put in use during 2006.

Vehicles purchased after 2006 will not be eligible for a deduction under current legislation. If you purchased the vehicle before 2005, you can claim the deduction by filing an amended tax return for the tax year in which the vehicle was purchased.

Ford Escape Hybrid 2005
Honda Accord Hybrid 2005
Honda Civic Hybrid 2003-2005
Honda Insight 2000-2005
Toyota Prius 2001-2005
-Vehicles approved by IRS as of February 10, 2005. Other hybrids may be approved at a later date.

The current clean-fuel vehicle tax deduction will be reduced to $500 in 2006 and will end in 2007.

 

[tedtropy]

Ouch. (Seems like I was wrong about the V-8 part, too.) I'm thinking of how that price stacks up in comparison with the competition... 268 horsepower isn't really a whole lot in today's market. The Honda Pilot has 260, runs on regular gas and retails under $30K.

Heh, what do people do with all this power? Have weekend soccer mom race-offs? I have a little 2.0L 130HP Protege and it does everything a car should just fine. I don't fear for my life when I merge onto a highway or pass anybody. Do people need that horsepower for those chance encounters when somebody gives them 'the look' at a redlight?

 

[DarienA]

Heh, what do people do with all this power? Have weekend soccer mom race-offs? I have a little 2.0L 130HP Protege and it does everything a car should just fine. I don't fear for my life when I merge onto a highway or pass anybody. Do people need that horsepower for those chance encounters when somebody gives them 'the look' at a redlight?

Please stop... your situation is not mine, mine is not someone elses, etc... everyone has different needs for their transportation, just like people have different needs for their homes, # of bedrooms, # of bathrooms, size of Tv's etc..... simply accept that you are happy with your vehicle, and other people are happy with theirs.

 

[tedtropy]

Please stop... your situation is not mine, mine is not someone elses, etc... everyone has different needs for their transportation, just like people have different needs for their homes, # of bedrooms, # of bathrooms, size of Tv's etc..... simply accept that you are happy with your vehicle, and other people are happy with theirs.

I wasn't singling you or anyone else out for criticism. I was just asking a general question in a, albeit, sarcastic fashion.

 

[DarienA]

I wasn't singling you or anyone else out for criticism. I was just asking a general question in a, albeit, sarcastic fashion.

Oh I know you were not singling me out, I'm just saying it's always weird when people ask those types of questions because that could really be extended to anything.... why do people need different types of phones, food, haircuts, clothes, etc.... cause we all be different man!

 

[tedtropy]

Oh I know you were not singling me out, I'm just saying it's always weird when people ask those types of questions because that could really be extended to anything.... why do people need different types of phones, food, haircuts, clothes, etc.... cause we all be different man!

I appreciate that, I'm just honestly curious how people take advantage of it. I won't pretend it isn't fun to be behind the wheel of a power car, but is that the sole motivator?

 

[Cooper]

I appreciate that, I'm just honestly curious how people take advantage of it.

My dad likes fast cars. He currently has a 350Z, and his previous car was a Lexus GS400. It's true that he rarely (never?) uses all their power, but he gets a rush out of merging quickly onto the freeways and knowing that he can pass pretty much anyone. My parents bought a BMW 330i last year, and they're somewhat disappointed with the performance. They think it's a bit slow to accelerate.

 

[tedtropy]

My dad likes fast cars. He currently has a 350Z, and his previous car was a Lexus GS400. It's true that he rarely (never?) uses all their power, but he gets a rush out of merging quickly onto the freeways and knowing that he can pass pretty much anyone. My parents bought a BMW 330i last year, and they're somewhat disappointed with the performance. They think it's a bit slow to accelerate.

The 350Z is one incredibly sleek car. I got the privlage of seeing one in a performance shop that was modded to the point of pushing 500HP.

I think all guys have an innate fascination with fast cars, but I can't say I'd like to own one as my primary means of transportation. I gripe enough at the 20 bucks a week I plop down for gas as is. Ah well, I'm sure that'll change as my income does.

 

[Tarazet]

Heh, what do people do with all this power? Have weekend soccer mom race-offs? I have a little 2.0L 130HP Protege and it does everything a car should just fine. I don't fear for my life when I merge onto a highway or pass anybody. Do people need that horsepower for those chance encounters when somebody gives them 'the look' at a redlight?

Yeah, I was happy with 105 horsepower when I was driving my '95 Celica. That was more than enough power to get me two speeding tickets and feed a seriously negative driving style for a couple of years. When I got my Element in September, I was also thinking, Insight? No, those are frightening to drive at speed and too small, anyway. Civic Hybrid? Good in theory, but the current-gen Civic is utter trash. The suspension crashes over bumps, the interior vibrates and rattles a lot, paint quality is lamentable, and I've even heard of trunk-lids rusting in harsher climates.

I'll get a hybrid, but not yet.

 

[fart]

My dad likes fast cars. He currently has a 350Z, and his previous car was a Lexus GS400. It's true that he rarely (never?) uses all their power, but he gets a rush out of merging quickly onto the freeways and knowing that he can pass pretty much anyone. My parents bought a BMW 330i last year, and they're somewhat disappointed with the performance. They think it's a bit slow to accelerate.

maybe they shouldn't have bought the auto.

as cool as i think this car is, i agree that it doesn't make any. sense. at all. it's all marketing, really.

 

[IntestineBoy]

> Any Hybrid

 

[Cooper]

as cool as i think this car is, i agree that it doesn't make any. sense. at all. it's all marketing, really.

I assume by "it doesn't make any sense" you mean the 3 series has no merit? My parents mostly got it because my mom has a weak back, and the 3 series had the most comfortable seats they could find. Everything else was a secondary concern.

maybe they shouldn't have bought the auto.

Auto = automatic transmission, or the car itself? If you mean they should have bought a stick, you're right. I let my dad drive the Cooper when I first got it in late 2003. The first comment he made to my mom when we returned was "Maybe I should get a stick for my next car." And when we got our Cooper S in December, we let my dad drive it also. When I last talked to him, he said he's trying to convince my mom to trade in their cars for an M3 and a Cooper S.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Motor Trend said it best in their last issue when talking about the Lexus RX400H: You're spending $5000 more on a Hybrid model, just to save $300 every year on gas. Same situation with almost every other hybrid model being released.

 

[Draff]

Motor Trend said it best in their last issue when talking about the Lexus RX400H: You're spending $5000 more on a Hybrid model, just to save $300 every year on gas. Same situation with almost every other hybrid model being released.

In Canada at least, the government gives a rebate on the hybrids. I *think* it's a few thousand dollars.

 

[ChumsGum]

Yeah, California gives you tax breaks that will eventually exceed $5000. Plus, you can ride in the carpool lane by yourself and park in the electric car parking spaces.

 

[demon]

This has got to be the first hybrid car I've seen that isn't ass ugly.

 

[Phoenix]

Lexus hasn't released an official figure on the 400h yet, but since it's going to be a V-8 where the RX330 has a V-6, that sounds about right.

Nope, she sports a V6. Test drove one at a Lexus event a couple of months ago and I'll be picking up one to replace my RX300.

edit: Ah you caught that already...

Ouch. (Seems like I was wrong about the V-8 part, too.) I'm thinking of how that price stacks up in comparison with the competition... 268 horsepower isn't really a whole lot in today's market. The Honda Pilot has 260, runs on regular gas and retails under $30K.

The pilot also maintains an average 18 MPG fuel economy. That's just terrible these days.

 

[fart]

I assume by "it doesn't make any sense" you mean the 3 series has no merit? My parents mostly got it because my mom has a weak back, and the 3 series had the most comfortable seats they could find. Everything else was a secondary concern.

no the accord v6 hybrid. i highly approve of e46 3 series

these semi-luxo hybrids exist solely to fund development of the hybrid drivetrains imo. gas electric hybrid hybrids make the most sense imo with small, light, cheap commuter type cars. yes, i know people commute in these boats, but they shouldn't.

Auto = automatic transmission, or the car itself? If you mean they should have bought a stick, you're right. I let my dad drive the Cooper when I first got it in late 2003. The first comment he made to my mom when we returned was "Maybe I should get a stick for my next car." And when we got our Cooper S in December, we let my dad drive it also. When I last talked to him, he said he's trying to convince my mom to trade in their cars for an M3 and a Cooper S.

yes! is he thinking the 6spd mt or the smg on the m3? for purity's sake the cooper s should keep the getrag piece.

Yeah, California gives you tax breaks that will eventually exceed $5000. Plus, you can ride in the carpool lane by yourself and park in the electric car parking spaces.

i don't think the accord mileage is good enough for HUV lane access, but i'm not 100% on that. the lexus 400h will almost 100% for sure not make it over the cutoff.

 

[Phoenix]

no the accord v6 hybrid. i highly approve of e46 3 series

these semi-luxo hybrids exist solely to fund development of the hybrid drivetrains imo. gas electric hybrid hybrids make the most sense imo with small, light, cheap commuter type cars. yes, i know people commute in these boats, but they shouldn't.

Curious, why so?

yes! is he thinking the 6spd mt or the smg on the m3? for purity's sake the cooper s should keep the getrag piece.i don't think the accord mileage is good enough for HUV lane access, but i'm not 100% on that. the lexus 400h will almost 100% for sure not make it over the cutoff.

The California law, which sunsets after three years, also applies only to hybrids that get at least 45 miles per gallon, a standard that’s now met only by the Toyota and Honda versions and excludes models made by Ford and others.

True. Only the smallest and mostly useless cars meet the standard

 

[DarienA]

The pilot also maintains an average 18 MPG fuel economy. That's just terrible these days.

Terrible Compared to?

 

[fart]

you can fit a lot of crap/people in a prius/civic 4dr. you'd be surprised.

it isn't just the size/weight issue. the only reason there's an accord v6 is a) marketing differentiation, b) the smooth torque delivery makes the drive feel more luxurious/meaty.

when you get right down to it, consumer cars are just packaged products. as far as getting from point a to point b is concerned, most people (barring mechanical trouble, at speed accidents) would do fine with an original beetle.

i realize how hypocritical this is considering what i drive. shut up

 

[ManaByte]

I have a 2004 Civic coup, LOVE IT.

 

[Pochacco]

It's cool how hybrids are making their way into existing models (e.g. Civic, Accord, Escape, RX).
Sure, the Prius and Insight are the hybrids, but they scream "look at me! I drive a hybrid!". A lot of people don't care for that.

In a few years, Toyota and Honda will have hybrid options on most of their lineup. Good stuff.

As for whether or not a hybrid is "worth" it...if people pay for it, then it obviously is.
Do you help the environment? Yes. Do you save money in the long run? Maybe. Do people already pay A LOT of cash for the status of owning something that other people don't? You bet.

I'm sure there are a lot of hybrid buyers out there that buy the vehicle simply for the satisfaction of owning something that's above the competition. Just as a lot of people buy Mercs, BMWs, Lexus', etc. just for the badge.

 

[fart]

As for whether or not a hybrid is "worth" it...if people pay for it, then it obviously is.
Do you help the environment? Yes. Do you save money in the long run? Maybe. Do people already pay A LOT of cash for the status of owning something that other people don't? You bet.

I'm sure there are a lot of hybrid buyers out there that buy the vehicle simply for the satisfaction of owning something that's above the competition. Just as a lot of people buy Mercs, BMWs, Lexus', etc. just for the badge.

right now there's a lot of novelty factor. it's clear that it doesn't make much sense financially, but there's an altruistic thing going on (investing in hybrid drivetrains now is a sacrifice that will hopefully open up the market later on), and there are also a few perks of the hybrid drivetrain (more, smoother torque from small diaplacement autos). my mom has an '04 prius with the navi package that is actually quite nice (if painfully boring) to drive.

 

[Phoenix]

Terrible Compared to?

400h or the new hybrid Highlander

 

[ChrisReid]

I have a non-hybrid 2002 Civic and it gets at least 29/37 mpg. Guess it's no v6/255hp though..

 

[Phoenix]

you can fit a lot of crap/people in a prius/civic 4dr. you'd be surprised.

Kids and their stuff takes up a LOT of space. Heaven forbid you have more than one to cart around and actually needed space before.

it isn't just the size/weight issue. the only reason there's an accord v6 is a) marketing differentiation, b) the smooth torque delivery makes the drive feel more luxurious/meaty.

Dude, try merging onto the interstate in a 4 cylinder Geo metro on the DC Beltway. If you live through the night, come back and talk to me

 

[Phoenix]

As for whether or not a hybrid is "worth" it...if people pay for it, then it obviously is.
Do you help the environment? Yes. Do you save money in the long run? Maybe.

For me its not so much about saving money. In my RX300 I currently have to fuel up often for long trips... very often. The RX300s have a relatively small fuel tank. I'll also get better MPG which is always a good thing. Adding 50% MPG to my current ride (actual tested improvement) is a big deal. In the long run I'll save some money as I can write off portion of hybrid vehicles on federal taxes for certain (and portions of it for many states as well) and in some 'unmeasured' way I'll spend a lot less in gas.

I'm sure there are a lot of hybrid buyers out there that buy the vehicle simply for the satisfaction of owning something that's above the competition. Just as a lot of people buy Mercs, BMWs, Lexus', etc. just for the badge.

Never understood these poeple much.

 

[Fatghost]

I wish Honda went away from front wheel drive. My Accord V6 is nice but I hate the way FWD handles. I miss RWD.

 

[Cooper]

yes! is he thinking the 6spd mt or the smg on the m3?

heh, I doubt it will actually happen in the near future, given their current cars are barely 2 years old. He seemed to enjoy driving the Minis with the stick shift, so maybe he'll consider a manual again. He's had hand surgery though, so he might have trouble with stick shifts long-term.

hrm, must try to stay on topic. Hybrids are neat, but I hope they're just a stop gap. Am I ever going to actually be able to buy a fuel cell car? I keep hearing about them, but no matter when I read about fuel cells, they're always five years away from production. GM's "worship our fuel cells that you can't buy" ads piss me off, by the way.

 

[fart]

Dude, try merging onto the interstate in a 4 cylinder Geo metro on the DC Beltway. If you live through the night, come back and talk to me

but the 4cyl metro (aka the aptly named suzuki swift) was the meaty one! now the 3cyl, that's the purist motor

 

[DarienA]

400h or the new hybrid Highlander

But its' mileage is about average for that class of vehicles... wait.. why are you comparing the gas mileage of a regular vehicle to that of two Hybrids... did I miss something?

EDIT: There's a hybrid Pilot? Holy shit had no idea... time to go check some specs... ok is there or isn't there a hybrid Pilot? I'm having trouble finding any info on one from what I see there isn't... so that leads me back to my first question in this post...

 

[Phoenix]

but the 4cyl metro (aka the aptly named suzuki swift) was the meaty one! now the 3cyl, that's the purist motor

Heh. I just remember being stuck with one the last time I had to go to the DC area and then trying to merge onto the beltway. The traffic on the beltway was going at normal 55+ speed and I had one of those 'traffic management' lights so I was going from a 0MPH start. I was sure I was going to die. That vehicle has NO power.

 

[Phoenix]

But its' mileage is about average for that class of vehicles... wait.. why are you comparing the gas mileage of a regular vehicle to that of two Hybrids... did I miss something?

Because MPG suckage isn't relative to class of vehicle. I have a RX300 and I'm doing between 19-21. Much better than the average of the pilot, but STILL sucks. Just because the RX300 one of the top 3 of the worst doesn't mean it doesn't suck - it just gets moved in to an average fuel consumption rating.

EDIT: There's a hybrid Pilot? Holy shit had no idea... time to go check some specs... ok is there or isn't there a hybrid Pilot? I'm having trouble finding any info on one from what I see there isn't... so that leads me back to my first question in this post...

Its not available yet, and is still in development. When released it will use Toyota's synergy drive generation 1 just like the hybrid fords.

 

[tedtropy]

Heh. I just remember being stuck with one the last time I had to go to the DC area and then trying to merge onto the beltway. The traffic on the beltway was going at normal 55+ speed and I had one of those 'traffic management' lights so I was going from a 0MPH start. I was sure I was going to die. That vehicle has NO power.

Heh, people actually pay attention to those things? Half the time I see them on the feeder they're covered up or not working. The other half of the time people just zoom through them when they're red anyways.