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[2014] Xbox One Indie Parity Clause impacting number of announcements for system

GobFather

Member
Jun 7, 2013
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I buy indies for pennies on Steam sales. I could not care less if they ever show up, likely overpriced, on my Xbox.
Not everyone uses steam. These are your "personal" tastes, which is fine but you are missing the point. This thread isn't about whether YOU want theses games on your consoles or YOU want to play them on your consoles. its about the state of indie games present on two consoles.
 

Noogy

Member
Jan 5, 2009
3,095
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I do hope that things improve. I've released on XBLA and PSN and have met great people at both companies. But yeah, as a solo developer it's hard enough to release one version of a game, let alone multiple ports simultaneously.
 

Steverulez

Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Is the indie clause the real reason that the libraries are so different though? I don't care how MS gets games on the platform, they just need to do it quicker. Dude running ID@XBOX is failing hard and his friends in the press sector need to call him out on it.

Harsh on Chris Charla, he seems like a good guy and he's done a good job of getting titles on the platform. The parity clause doesn't come from him, its above him which Phil Spencer confirmed when he did that podcast.

I agree the parity clause needs to go, I don't blame Chris for having one hand tied behind his back
 

Jomjom

Banned
Nov 26, 2009
11,734
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Hey guys! Steam eventually has all games, indies and AAA, cheaper than on console. Who cares about AAA games releasing on console amirite?!?
 

shiftplusone

Member
Sep 14, 2009
7,217
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That's a nice post right there. Happy to have all of the current consoles so I don't have to worry about it, but it really is interesting to think what MSFT will do going forward.



I don't think they'd even mention an Xbox port at PSX.

i just think like he said in OP that they would announce it on their own if it was still going to xbox. I would think, anyway

The second one wasn't on Xbox, actually. Shame because I loved the first

Ah, I had gotten the steam version when it came out and didnt notice that it didnt actually make it to xbox. That's weird, then




on topic, The more i think about it the dumber this is. I already thought it was pretty damn dumb, too
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Jan 18, 2007
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The Confederate United States of America
This is exactly why I keep saying that PlayStation 4 has just created this huge games advantage which people are somehow creating arbitrary arguments to negate. If your console is primarily for games than the ps4 is by far the superior platform. Unless somebody here wants to argue against amazing games then by all means go for it.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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I can see MS side on this issue. With everything else they stacked against themselves, they don't want to be seen as getting 'leftovers'. Sucks for small devs, but as a matter of principal I rarely buy games previously released on other systems. 1) the hype energy is 0. 2) they're usually bad ports handed to outsourced devs for a cash grab. From sales history people rarely buy them anyway.

Yeah no one on PlayStation wanted Minecraft since it was late..
 

watership

Member
Sep 6, 2006
10,910
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The partiy clause confuses me. Mostly because I try not to get too deep in Game dev politics. But if the Parity clause didn't exist, what would change? Would some indie games come to Xbox first? At the same time? Much later? I suppose that would be better than never. Is the purpose of the clause to get games on Xbox first or at the same time as other platforms?

The way I see it, the PS4 is selling better, so Devs will always probably make a PS4 game first and port to Xbox later. The situation would always be bad for Xbox, either way.
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Feb 24, 2009
45,595
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Portland, OR
Indies aren't games silly.

The partiy clause confuses me. Mostly because I try not to get too deep in Game dev politics. But if the Parity clause didn't exist, what would change? Would some indie games come to Xbox first? At the same time? Much later? I suppose that would be better than never. Is the purpose of the clause to get games on Xbox first or at the same time as other platforms?

The way I see it, the PS4 is selling better, so Devs will always probably make a PS4 game first and port to Xbox later. The situation would always be bad for Xbox, either way.

All of the above?

The parity clause is bullshit.

edit: and please with the always bad for MS stuff. Would people rather get the games sometime or not at all?
 

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
27,115
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1,290
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Harsh on Chris Charla, he seems like a good guy and he's done a good job of getting titles on the platform. The parity clause doesn't come from him, its above him which Phil Spencer confirmed when he did that podcast.

I agree the parity clause needs to go, I don't blame Chris for having one hand tied behind his back

Definitely, Chris Charla and the team at ID@Xbox are great people. There's only one guy that can fix this, and who's directly responsible for the policy being kept, and that's Phil Spencer.
 

FordGTGuy

Banned
Oct 1, 2012
7,004
0
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Portsmouth, VA
www.xboxuncut.com
It's always been ridiculous when people say the PS4 has no games.

The Xbox One having "better" games is opinion.

The PS4 having more games is fact.

Only problem being that all those games are already on PC or coming to PC at the same time.

If the parity changed exactly what would be different here?

If they couldn't afford to release on both at the same time they still wouldn't be releasing on Xbox One at the same time and they probably wouldn't announce a Xbox One version until they could confirm they would be making one.

Microsoft needs to get rid of the parity clause and instead use a incentives system that will offer smaller indies more from each sale.
 

Steverulez

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Dec 13, 2006
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360 had a great library of middleware back in the day which is why this stance is confusing to me. They've pretty much squandered the goodwill that they built up.

I don't think they had that much goodwill even back then, they just had the biggest selling platform in the US and developers wanted in on that.

There were various issues with certification fees, XBLA release slots which MS controlled, not letting games on the platform if they had something similar already on there et etc
 

bananafactory

Banned
Nov 6, 2013
26,335
3
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Does this mean PC wins? I mean you guys have heard about steam sales and humble bundle right?

Nah, who am I kidding. This is fanboy list wars bullshit. Xbox Done amirite??

Did you even read the OP? That's not at all what this is about.

And FYI not everyone plays on PC. I have a powerful gaming rig but I often prefer to play on my Playstation 4. That's my preferred platform. More games on a system is always a good thing regardless of where else they may be available.
 

Cess007

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Nov 22, 2012
6,495
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Wait a min... so you're telling me developers are not allowed to release their games for XBL if it's not day and date with PS4 version? They are only hurting their playerbase and nothing else, what kind of logic is this.

I remember some people in other threads saying that there's no proof of that even when some devs have come and say there's no XBO version due this clause :/
 

Jomjom

Banned
Nov 26, 2009
11,734
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The partiy clause confuses me. Mostly because I try not to get too deep in Game dev politics. But if the Parity clause didn't exist, what would change? Would some indie games come to Xbox first? At the same time? Much later? I suppose that would be better than never. Is the purpose of the clause to get games on Xbox first or at the same time as other platforms?

The way I see it, the PS4 is selling better, so Devs will always probably make a PS4 game first and port to Xbox later. The situation would always be bad for Xbox, either way.

No because in the current state, games aren't allowed to release on Xbox at all if they came out on PS4, unless you get a dumb exception. It's an exception, so by definition not EVERY developer gets this benefit.

Without the clause, at least those games would release a bit later, i.e. Super Time Force Ultra on PS4.
 
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I know it's a big deal for most, but it means little for me. I am burned out on indies. The Witness is the only indie game I plan to play during the next year (although I'm sure I'll budge on others).

Indies aren't a big deal for EVERYONE.
 

Endo Punk

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Sep 4, 2011
8,780
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it's from Phil Spencer's GUIDE ON HOW TO TREAT GAMERS LIKE FIRST CLASS CITIZENS™ book.

Not much fun being a first class citizen in a ghost town. Not saying XB doesn't have games but as the OP has it, there are a lot of games that could be on XBL but wont until this clause goes away. Fans should really make some noise to get it changed by good guy Phil.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
3
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36
Nowhere, PA
The partiy clause confuses me. Mostly because I try not to get too deep in Game dev politics. But if the Parity clause didn't exist, what would change? Would some indie games come to Xbox first? At the same time? Much later? I suppose that would be better than never. Is the purpose of the clause to get games on Xbox first or at the same time as other platforms?

The way I see it, the PS4 is selling better, so Devs will always probably make a PS4 game first and port to Xbox later. The situation would always be bad for Xbox, either way.

No, it wouldn't.

In one case XBO gamers get the game.
In the other case they don't.

Which is better? HMMM. Really hard choice.

The purpose of the clause is to try to prevent games from being first on PS4 at the very least, due to Sony being so massively ahead of Microsoft courting indies this gen. It was their attempt to put the brakes on that lead.

They failed. Horrifically. And now the only people getting hurt are XBO gamers and indie devs.
 

JazzmanZ

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Aug 18, 2010
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It's always been ridiculous when people say the PS4 has no games.

The Xbox One having "better" games is opinion.

The PS4 having more games is fact.
Every console has games, it's just that some people are subjective to what they think is a game, and the notion is quite frankly dumb.
 

KnockOneOff

Banned
Oct 4, 2012
2,030
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One less indie title means 1 more chance of retail games for gold

I'm happy about this, I can't be the only the one who doesn't give indie games my time of day, even the games for gold titles I don't download
 

Impeccable

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Feb 18, 2010
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Wish people would stop acting like PC isn't a separate entity for most gamers.

Great post, Chubigans.
 

Toki767

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May 8, 2009
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Only problem being that all those games are already on PC or coming to PC at the same time.

And everyone who has a PS4/Xbox One has a PC right? That's a really stupid argument as the majority of people with these consoles have probably never played a PC game.
 

Marcel

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Feb 16, 2012
11,276
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One less indie title means 1 more chance of retail games for gold

I'm happy about this, I can't be the only the one who doesn't give indie games my time of day, even the games for gold titles I don't download

No, it doesn't. No indie = free AAA game is bullshit. Your bedtime video game fantasy doesn't exist.
 

Jomjom

Banned
Nov 26, 2009
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Only problem being that all those games are already on PC or coming to PC at the same time.

How does this change the statement you responded to? Does being out on PC or coming out simultaneously on PC somehow subtract the game from the PS4's list of games?

Oh shit a bunch of Xbox's most famous games have suddenly disappeared, Halo, Gears, Fable all gone!
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Apr 7, 2008
12,712
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Does this mean PC wins? I mean you guys have heard about steam sales and humble bundle right?

Nah, who am I kidding. This is fanboy list wars bullshit. Xbox Done amirite??

Is this a list wars thread? That's funny, I thought it was a inside look at the indie scene on both systems and the detrimental effect of the parity clause.
 

bananafactory

Banned
Nov 6, 2013
26,335
3
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No, it wouldn't.

In one case XBO gamers get the game.
In the other case they don't.

Which is better? HMMM. Really hard choice.

The purpose of the clause is to try to prevent games from being first on PS4 at the very least, due to Sony being so massively ahead of Microsoft courting indies this gen. It was their attempt to put the brakes on that lead.

They failed. Horrifically. And now the only people getting hurt are XBO gamers and indie devs.

Pretty much.

I don't feel like "second class" because I am getting Shovel Knight on my PS4 after Nintendo owners have already been playing it. I'm just happy that it's coming.

The parity clause makes no sense.
 
Jan 1, 2009
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I'll buy your game again on PS4, Chubs.

It was apparent that indies are choosing not to be on Xbone. We still haven't heard of a Transistor Xbone version when those guys started on Xbox. Microsoft seriously messed up.
 

RowdyReverb

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Mar 27, 2014
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Would the retail dev kits that were originally promised alleviate this problem? Then devs would only be roped into the date parity agreement if they accepted the perks of ID@Xbox without it being a total necessity.

Also, I'm curious how the case-by-case basis works for indie devs wanting to publish later on XB1. Did all 47 of those studios ask for an exception? Or do they need to wait and see if their game sells well enough on other platforms to merit and exception?

I can understand Phil's rationale for the parity clause. Indie games often rely entirely on buzz for their marketing and if the Internet has already moved on to the next big thing, a later release is gimped. However, the clause should never be allowed to become an obstacle preventing devs from releasing on XB1 at all. I'm really not sure how they should handle it. Without the numbers, For all we know, the parity clause has been more helpful than harmful to their bottom line.


Side note: I think that the thread title is needlessly inflammatory, especially since we already have a "Microsoft needs to step it up" thread. I would have had no idea we were discussing the parity clause had I not read the OP.
 

Percy

Banned
Apr 29, 2014
5,273
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Just out of curiousity because I keep seeing the phrase "This will release on Xbox One later" I looked up the indie games currently on both systems it really looks(Though I could be missing something admittedly) like most of the indie titles that have launched on PS4 haven't shown any signs of coming to XB1... so is it really such a foregone conclusion?

Just wondering.

Does this mean PC wins? I mean you guys have heard about steam sales and humble bundle right?

Nah, who am I kidding. This is fanboy list wars bullshit. Xbox Done amirite??

You should be embarassed.
 

BouncyFrag

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Feb 10, 2014
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I have this image of MS addressing all of the indie devs in a conference room telling them of this parity clause, the devs collectively looking at each other, shrugging, and then signing with Sony via their smartphones on their way out the door.
 

Kar

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Nov 3, 2014
290
116
620
Quick question, if its impossible to release a game on PS4 and then release it on the Xbox One at a later date because of the parity shit, why not release it on Xbox One first and then bring it to the PS4 at a later date?
 

Merkunt

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Nov 25, 2014
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Does this mean PC wins? I mean you guys have heard about steam sales and humble bundle right?

Nah, who am I kidding. This is fanboy list wars bullshit. Xbox Done amirite??

This isn't about list wars, it's about how much this clause is prejudicing Microsoft and at the same time small team indie developers who can't afford to either delay their games or lack manpower to work on multiple versions of said games.
 

PseudoKirby

Banned
Nov 19, 2006
5,713
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So is this a clause from the beginning when MS had a stronghold on the downloadable games market and XBLA?
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
43,343
2
1,645
The partiy clause confuses me. Mostly because I try not to get too deep in Game dev politics. But if the Parity clause didn't exist, what would change? Would some indie games come to Xbox first? At the same time? Much later? I suppose that would be better than never. Is the purpose of the clause to get games on Xbox first or at the same time as other platforms?

The way I see it, the PS4 is selling better, so Devs will always probably make a PS4 game first and port to Xbox later. The situation would always be bad for Xbox, either way.

Yeah, it is tricky for MS. But if they'd moved on this sooner - like before E3 last year - there was a window where they could have established day-and-dates as the norm.

Trying to force it afterward probably wasn't the right way anyway.The community hasn't engaged, they're typically just basically ignoring the policy and xb1 with it.
 

Banjo-Kazooie

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Sep 6, 2013
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Brilliant write-up. I'll try and find games you missed, since I know a few off the top of my head already. Something tells me the gap will only increase once I finished my research.

By the way, Commander Cherry is also coming out for the PS4 to work with the PS4 camera, so that's -1 from the Xbox's amazing 3 strong list, lol
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
3
0
36
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One less indie title means 1 more chance of retail games for gold

I'm happy about this, I can't be the only the one who doesn't give indie games my time of day, even the games for gold titles I don't download

First your argument is complete garbage, they are not related at all and the Games for Gold offerings already show that.

Second, "indie" is not a game genre. They cover all genres, all visual types, all scopes, every single game type you love in AAAs is also covered in indies and often more effectively.

So, to say you hate indies is to essentially say you hate games. You hate individual indie games, perhaps, but no thinking individual can cast a blanket over all indies. Stop being stubborn and research.
 

Shredderi

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Feb 24, 2013
9,302
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Best thread and OP in a while. Very interesting actually and shows that microsoft should propably re-examine their policy. Can't see this benefitting them at all.