Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
SappYoda said:Ultimate Ghosts n Goblins is one of the best looking games on PSP
Lol, that's pretty hideous...
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2D vs 2.5D: Which one is better?
- Thread starter apana
- Start date
Lol, that's pretty hideous...
Yeah, I always thought UGnG was pretty ugly. Bad representative.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh afd aj sdnfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaldnn oad sja aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjnwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao
Please stop assuming that I'm a fucking idiot who can't differentiate nostalgia from reality. This is revolting.
~Devil Trigger~ said:
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh afd aj sdnfaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaldnn oad sja aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaajjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjnwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao
Please stop assuming that I'm a fucking idiot who can't differentiate nostalgia from reality. This is revolting.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Where the hell is Vanillaware's next game? This thread just makes me want to replay Muramasa again.
Sounds interesting to see. Do you know of a video that's comparable?
Not saying that their word is incorrect, but people said the exact same shit with countless CGI creatures and how they looked just like real life. An example of this is with the Chronicles of Narnia they showed two videos side to side to people, one of a real-life lion walking down a street and another of the render of Aslan, and people couldn't tell the difference. Yet when it went to the screen he was clearly CGI.
Looks pretty good.
Raging Spaniard said:
Sounds interesting to see. Do you know of a video that's comparable?
Not saying that their word is incorrect, but people said the exact same shit with countless CGI creatures and how they looked just like real life. An example of this is with the Chronicles of Narnia they showed two videos side to side to people, one of a real-life lion walking down a street and another of the render of Aslan, and people couldn't tell the difference. Yet when it went to the screen he was clearly CGI.
SappYoda said:Ultimate Ghosts n Goblins is one of the best looking games on PSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAxedQBTKMQ
Looks pretty good.
Chet Rippo
Member
That probably has to do with the game themselves and the franchise attached to it, rather than they use polygonal or not.apana said:
Like:
New Super Mario Bros. Wii vs. Muramasa
paranoidfortean
Member
the furthest i can support is paralax backgrounds
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
apana said:
An SNES rom just went platinum...
Why?Willy105 said:
Everyone knows what it means. It carries no baggage. It is... what it is. It's not like other words, such as, for example, "epic" or "visceral" or "casual" or "accessible". It's just a term that described a certain mix of visual and gameplay styles. 3D graphics and 2D gameplay.
So... why?
_Alkaline_
Member
Fugu said:
Did you just say DKCR looks like crap?
That's just fucking stupid.
That goes to a point. But art is by its very nature defined by the limitations of expressive medium.Raging Spaniard said:
That aside, regarding the issues of cost - overall production of 2D games tends to run a fair bit lower then modern 3D games, for too many reasons to discuss here. But that rule of thumb would likely reverse if someone tried to do AAA budgeted 2D title.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I would have bought Muramasa for my Wii a long time ago if that rumor of a PSN/XBLA port didn't get loose at that conference.
Fantasy Final
Member
I don't care as long it's not like this.
This shit needs to die.
This shit needs to die.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
InfiniteNine said:
$14.07 ON AMAZONG! EVERYBODY WITH A WII SHOULD BUY THIS DAMN GAME!
OMG peoples. We need to support the developers that still do good 2D games if we want to see more good 2D games.
From my experience, the reason you see more polygonal 2D is because the memory requirements of 2D in hi-def are a huge barrier (on consoles).
3D animation files can be fairly small, so most of your memory is spent on the model and textures, which are needed only once. But in 2D, if you have a large character at a high framerate, you have to stick all those frames into memory somewhere, and it's a very difficult balancing issue. Even Vanillaware games, as beautifully handpainted as they are, need to do some intensive memory management trickery such as polygonal characters to minimize texture usage.
Fighters lend themselves to hi-def 2D since you usually only need to load two characters at once. There's a reason why there's so little hi-def 2D with large characters out there... it's simply more difficult to balance. And of course, you're limited to what you can do with camera movement.
Back to the OP's question, I will always prefer 2D. I'm starting to hate '2.5d' games. You lose the benefits of 2D visuals, and the benefits of a truly 3d world. I'd rather go one way or the other.
3D animation files can be fairly small, so most of your memory is spent on the model and textures, which are needed only once. But in 2D, if you have a large character at a high framerate, you have to stick all those frames into memory somewhere, and it's a very difficult balancing issue. Even Vanillaware games, as beautifully handpainted as they are, need to do some intensive memory management trickery such as polygonal characters to minimize texture usage.
Fighters lend themselves to hi-def 2D since you usually only need to load two characters at once. There's a reason why there's so little hi-def 2D with large characters out there... it's simply more difficult to balance. And of course, you're limited to what you can do with camera movement.
Back to the OP's question, I will always prefer 2D. I'm starting to hate '2.5d' games. You lose the benefits of 2D visuals, and the benefits of a truly 3d world. I'd rather go one way or the other.
Dark Octave
Banned
I have a feeling that they would have been greatly supported if they had brought it over to XBLA/PSN.The Take Out Bandit said:
It never felt like a good fit for the Wii, to me.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
whitehawk said:
They have Secret of mana and Super Metroid as well! O.O
MNC said:
You should have gotten it at launch
SabinFigaro said:
A Boy and His Blob
Muramasa
Posted again for 2beauD ... I mean true beauty
For some reason I never saw epic yarn as 2.5D .... more like a 2.25D =P
Interesting to say that !
I always found the Yoshi Island to have the exact same feel as some of the pre-abstract moments of Kandinsk... there is even a painting (wich i could not find in google) wich almost only lacks the eyes on the hills xD
here are some examples of his paintings of that time so you have guys have some idea of what i'm talking
Church in Murnau. 1910
Improvisation 7. 1910
Specialy the right part of this one
Composition IV, 1911 (higher res here)
Mama Robotnik said:
Interesting to say that !
I always found the Yoshi Island to have the exact same feel as some of the pre-abstract moments of Kandinsk... there is even a painting (wich i could not find in google) wich almost only lacks the eyes on the hills xD
here are some examples of his paintings of that time so you have guys have some idea of what i'm talking
Church in Murnau. 1910
Improvisation 7. 1910
Specialy the right part of this one
Composition IV, 1911 (higher res here)
Yoshi's Island is pretty and is one of my favorite games, graphically but it does... not look like a painting.
Especially when you're looking at a level in its entirety. It's way easier to pick up on the repeated assets.
And unlike cel-shading (another term with a very specific meaning), it is rarely misused, so there should be no room for disagreement or controversy, outside of the realm of "do you like it?" What is it with you people?
Especially when you're looking at a level in its entirety. It's way easier to pick up on the repeated assets.
2.5D is not "a lie". It is a term with a very specific meaning, invented - I assume - and adopted - I know - by the gaming industry, to describe a very specific subset of video games.JEKKI said:
if a game plays like 2D, then it's 2D. if it plays like 3D, then it's 3D.
that's why 2.5D is a lie. Who cares how it looks, it's how it plays.
And unlike cel-shading (another term with a very specific meaning), it is rarely misused, so there should be no room for disagreement or controversy, outside of the realm of "do you like it?" What is it with you people?
The Take Out Bandit
Member
FlashbladeGAF said:
TrueD?
Nose Master
Member
Fuckin hate 2.5D. Always looks like shit. (NSMBW is one of the only exceptions)
well this is what I dont understand,
let's say Shadow Complex is a 2.5D game becoz you can shoot enemies in the background,
then does that make Quackshot a 2.5D game as well since when you walk past a building, people can throw things at you out of the windows that are part of the background?
or is Bart vs. Space Mutants 2.5D since a lot of the game's interaction (in the 1st stage at least) is background manipulation?
let's say Shadow Complex is a 2.5D game becoz you can shoot enemies in the background,
then does that make Quackshot a 2.5D game as well since when you walk past a building, people can throw things at you out of the windows that are part of the background?
or is Bart vs. Space Mutants 2.5D since a lot of the game's interaction (in the 1st stage at least) is background manipulation?
Augemitbutter
Member
a good developer can make both 2D and 2,5D shine, i can find quality in both ways.
yea, because only grey/brown 3D games should sell in retail markets, 2D isn't good enough for that.
it would have sold copies to the target audience on the other platforms as well.
Dark Octave said:
yea, because only grey/brown 3D games should sell in retail markets, 2D isn't good enough for that.
it would have sold copies to the target audience on the other platforms as well.
A 2.5D game is a game with primarily - and I suppose I must admit that the "primarily" is a bit subjective! - 2D gameplay and 3D graphics.JEKKI said:
Tomba!, New Super Mario Bros., Shadow Complex, even LittleBigPlanet.
You may be able to interact with the background, but that doesn't necessarily make it a "3D" game. It still is a "2D" - and once again, I must admit that this part is a bit subjective - game.
Well... I admit I haven't actually played it! But it looks atrocious through emulation. Largely because of the mix of sprites and polygons. The sprites were not made for the large resolutions at which people tend to play. They become blown up and straight-up ugly. The crispness and AA of the actual polygons is nice, but everything else still looks... wrong. Playing at the game's proper native resolution, though, with that AA, might be best. O:apana said:
Game still looks like a lot of fun, though, and... SOME DAY I'll play it. D:
so it's an issue of graphical presentation?!?!
it's like asking which do you prefer, ugly games or good looking games??
if u prefer 2.5D, will you like an ugly 2.5D over a gorgeous 2D?
or vicey versa??
this is why I hate the term 2.5D... it's just a lie to make gamers think games are something that theyre not.
I play side scroller game, press A button, jump on heads, press B button, throw fists or bullets, press right, move right, the amount of D's or half D's dont make a difference.
it's like asking which do you prefer, ugly games or good looking games??
if u prefer 2.5D, will you like an ugly 2.5D over a gorgeous 2D?
or vicey versa??
this is why I hate the term 2.5D... it's just a lie to make gamers think games are something that theyre not.
I play side scroller game, press A button, jump on heads, press B button, throw fists or bullets, press right, move right, the amount of D's or half D's dont make a difference.
_Alkaline_
Member
BowieZ said:
Just another GAFer then.
BowieZ said:
What._Alkaline_ said:
Seriously. Such a ridiculous thing to say.Tain said:
...It's not a lie. It's a term with a definition, used to describe games. When the topic asks "which do you prefer", it is not asking about gameplay, it is asking about graphical style.JEKKI said:
You are ridiculous.
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