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[dr3upmushroom]

Keep up my man!

Yeah, like I said, using that as proof to call the film racist is ridiculous. The people quoted in the article even talk about events being "opportunities" to showcase black soldiers. Just because there's an opportunity to show something doesn't mean there's an obligation to, and I don't really see how there's an issue with it unless you've already decided that Eastwood is a racist and are actively looking for proof.

Again, if you're going to say that the film intentionally omitted showing black soldiers you'd have to show evidence that black men fought in scenes that are actually depicted in the film, not ones that could have been.

You could argue that Eastwood deliberately didn't include any such scenes because it so abhorred him to credit black soldiers, but anyone who's going to obsess over the depiction of race in the film to the extent that they can't conceive of any other reason an event might not be depicted in the film obviously doesn't care looking at the reason behind directing decisions honestly.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

The link you posted before is stupid. It refers to moments being "missing." Obviously the movie isn't going to include a real-time depiction of every event that occurred. If something wasn't deemed important/entertaining/feasible enough to shoot, all it means is that it didn't make the cut. I don't see how event can be called "missing" as though there were some special obligation to include them.

Do you believe Eastwood is a racist?

So the 900 black soldiers who were fighting perhaps weren't deemed important/entertaining/feasible enough to include? Don't they therefore have a point in feeling slighted? I mean fuck, a black soldier provided part of the pole that the flag was raised on! But white filmmakers should have no special obligation to include moments like these when making a 'historically accurate' film? What!?

I don't for a second think Eastwood is racist. Not a chance in hell. I just think he fucked up with his film and that everybody in this thread who were earlier on some "lol Spike" hype should shut up because he, in voicing the concerns and opinions of soldiers who were actually there, was and is correct.

 

[Shatner's Bassoon]

I love Werner Herzog, I really do.

 

[DaMan121]

Burton set himself up for that comeback, even though the two Burtman movies are the only Batman movies I like :lol

Super hero comics, especially the ones made by Marvel, are mostly fucking atrocious anyway

The Smith-Burton battle is hilarious (when told by Smith anyway), but I find it hard to believe that Smith wouldn't have thoroughly enjoyed Batman 89 when it came out. You have to remember, before this movie comic book movies were a joke - with a few exceptions, Superman 1 & 2 had moments, and.. The Hulk t.v series? Burton brought some seriousness and respect to the genre.

 

[serotonina]

I got a lot of hate comments when saying that the film is over-rated in GAFs film thread. But I'm sorry, speaking strictly with todays standards the film isn't that special.

We would not have todays standard without Citizen Kane. For the same reason one shall not praise Lang's Metropolis, or Wiene's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
Is Hitchcock up to today standards? The list can go on and on with movies and directors. Even from the 90's.

Citizen Kane is what it is, a masterpiece of story telling and use of camera, it guides you through a story of cleverly kept secrets and unspoken truths. Everything of the movie is about the 20 century men and what they became, losing the grip of what they really need in favor of what they are supposed to have.

The only real limit of the movie is that you need a minimun knowledge of the medium to enjoy it at his fullest, and to watch it at least 3-4 times to analyze it.

Films are meant to be enjoyed, yes, but also meant to be discussed. Dismissing it just by "it's overrated" or "not up to standard" shows a lack of knowledge of the history of cinema. Which may be shorter than the history of mankind, but it's surely worth the knowing.

 

[lightless_shado]

We would not have todays standard without Citizen Kane. For the same reason one shall not praise Lang's Metropolis, or Wiene's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
Is Hitchcock up to today standards? The list can go on and on with movies and directors. Even from the 90's.

Citizen Kane is what it is, a masterpiece of story telling and use of camera, it guides you through a story of cleverly kept secrets and unspoken truths. Everything of the movie is about the 20 century men and what they became, losing the grip of what they really need in favor of what they are supposed to have.

The only real limit of the movie is that you need a minimun knowledge of the medium to enjoy it at his fullest, and to watch it at least 3-4 times to analyze it.

Films are meant to be enjoyed, yes, but also meant to be discussed. Dismissing it just by "it's overrated" or "not up to standard" shows a lack of knowledge of the history of cinema. Which may be shorter than the history of mankind, but it's surely worth the knowing.

Basically those films were great back then and that's why they get on the best films lists, because they set the standards for future products. I think what he's complaining about is the fact that these innovative films get put in the same lists as films from later years that didn't innovate and were just very good. It doesn't make sense to put something like Citizen Kane in a list that contains something like The Cider House Rules for example. The Cider House Rules was a great film, but it wasn't anywhere near as influential as something like citizen kane. The average person will watch citizen kane and think "that's it?" not "this is a masterpiece that I must add to my top 10 list"

 

[ZoddGutts]

Spike really should shut he's face. But seriously, Clint is so racist that he married a woman who's half black and half asian and had a daughter with her!

 

[serotonina]

Basically those films were great back then and that's why they get on the best films lists, because they set the standards for future products. I think what he's complaining about is the fact that these innovative films get put in the same lists as films from later years that didn't innovate and were just very good. It doesn't make sense to put something like Citizen Kane in a list that contains something like The Cider House Rules for example. The Cider House Rules was a great film, but it wasn't anywhere near as influential as something like citizen kane. The average person will watch citizen kane and think "that's it?" not "this is a masterpiece that I must add to my top 10 list"

I completely agree with you, but what Flying_Phoenix stated is that he "got a lot of hate comments when saying that the film is over-rated in GAFs film thread" backing it up with "But I'm sorry, speaking strictly with todays standards the film isn't that special" falling completely in the definition of the Tvtrope link you provided.

Every form of art is derivative of something else that was in place long before. Dismissing what it was because it doesn't have, for example, eye-candy special effects up to today standards is really obnoxious.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Educate yourself on some of the moments that were missing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/oct/20/usa.film

black marines were shown in the film.

Nearly 900 African-Americans fought on the Japanese island

900 men out of tens of thousands is not, I repeat, is not going to get a lot of screen time. I'm sorry but that is the reality of 1945 and it is the reality of a 2-3 hour film.

 

[Xater]

18. Tim Burton on Kevin Smith (after Smith jokingly accused Burton of stealing the ending of Planet of the Apes from a Smith comic book):
“Anyone who knows me knows I would never read a comic book. And I would especially never read anything created by Kevin Smith.”

19. Kevin Smith on Tim Burton (in response to “I would never read a comic book”):
“Which, to me, explains fucking Batman.”

Absolutely perfect.

Also Bergman is awesome.

 

[dude]

Always fun to see trash-talks.

Sofia Coppola is one of my favorite directors though.

 

[lightless_shado]

Spike really should shut he's face. But seriously, Clint is so racist that he married a woman who's half black and half asian and had a daughter with her!

well to be fair her father was half-black half asian but her mother was white.

Anyway I don't think anyone here actually thinks he's a racist just because he snubbed black veterans in one of his movies. Morgan Freeman had a prominent role in Million Dollar Baby, Mystic River featured Lawrence Fishburne, and Gran Torino was pretty much all asian with the exception of eastwood himself and his family. Guy isn't a racist, but he probably should've given a more eloquent response to criticism other than "that guy should shut up" he could've said "If he watched the movie he'd see that I put black soldiers in there somewhere" or "I'm sure that he wouldn't be implying that I'm a racist if he watched all the other films I did"

 

[MrHicks]

well to be fair her father was half-black half asian but her mother was white.

Anyway I don't think anyone here actually thinks he's a racist just because he snubbed black veterans in one of his movies. Morgan Freeman had a prominent role in Million Dollar Baby, Mystic River featured Lawrence Fishburne, and Gran Torino was pretty much all asian with the exception of eastwood himself and his family. Guy isn't a racist, but he probably should've given a more eloquent response to criticism other than "that guy should shut up" he could've said "If he watched the movie he'd see that I put black soldiers in there somewhere" or "I'm sure that he wouldn't be implying that I'm a racist if he watched all the other films I did"

isn't spike lee known for his "black this black that etc"
kinda like al sharpton

maybe clint knew that and thought "not this black stuff again from this guy....ANYONE but that guy" and there he gave such a response

 

[Stabby McSter]

I remember when that whole Spike Lee vs. Clint Eastwood debacle went down. One of the better discussions among my friends.

Also, Vincent Gallo goes too hard. Spike Jonze is like the nicest guy ever.

 

[symphonask]

Don't get the Eastwood hate as a director, guy's made some great films. Changeling was the best film of 2008.

 

[Tobor]

Actions speak louder than words.

I've always been a fan of Chris Carter including a scene in the first X-Files movie where Duchovny pisses on an ID4 poster. It was beautiful. Lol.

 

[Solo]

If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, then public bashing must be the second-most.

 

[andymcc]

If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, then public bashing must be the second-most.

going by this list and your logic, jean-luc godard must be the greatest director of all time.

 

[bud]

.”

3. Ingmar Berman on Orson Welles:
“For me he’s just a hoax. It’s empty. It’s not interesting. It’s dead. Citizen Kane, which I have a copy of — is all the critics’ darling, always at the top of every poll taken, but I think it’s a total bore. Above all, the performances are worthless. The amount of respect that movie’s got is absolutely unbelievable.”

ingmar keepin' it real.

gallo's insults are the harshest. damn.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

I'm so glad to read these Bergman quotes. I love his work and share his opinions. Now it all makes sense.

 

[Mr. Sam]

That Uwe Boll meltdown over Tree of Life earlier in the thread was delicious. He makes some points which are valid from a certain perspective, but then this:

"I have this film about the credit crisis, and this guy goes round killing investment bankers. Can you believe Matt Damon doesn't want to be in it!?"

 

[bunbun777]

Tim Burton has admitted to reading comics. He says a few things that can be taken more than one way.

"I was never a giant comic book fan, but I've always loved the image of Batman and The Joker. The reason I've never been a comic book fan—and I think it started when I was a child—is because I could never tell which box I was supposed to read. I don't know if it was dyslexia or whatever, but that's why I loved The Killing Joke, because for the first time I could tell which one to read. It's my favorite. It's the first comic I've ever loved. And the success of those graphic novels made our ideas more acceptable. I write therefore I am"

 

[Your Excellency]

Uwe Boll was actually really cool on his Q+A podcast thing with Creative Screenwriting Magazine. I think that's where his quote comes from, actually. Check it out, if you hate him it'll really show you another side to his work.

 

[Angry Fork]

4. Ingmar Bergman on Jean-Luc Godard:
“I’ve never gotten anything out of his movies. They have felt constructed, faux intellectual, and completely dead. Cinematographically uninteresting and infinitely boring. Godard is a fucking bore. He’s made his films for the critics. One of the movies, Masculin, Féminin, was shot here in Sweden. It was mind-numbingly boring.”

This is exactly how I feel about Bergman.

15. Jacques Rivette on James Cameron (and Steven Spielberg):
“Cameron isn’t evil, he’s not an asshole like Spielberg. He wants to be the new De Mille. Unfortunately, he can’t direct his way out of a paper bag. “

This guy is out of his mind.

20. Kevin Smith on Paul Thomas Anderson (specifically, Magnolia):
“I’ll never watch it again, but I will keep it. I’ll keep it right on my desk, as a constant reminder that a bloated sense of self-importance is the most unattractive quality in a person or their work.”

I agree with this. PTA is incredible, but Magnolia was pretentious and bloated. I LOVED Cruise's performance, and There Will be Blood is one of my favorite films I always can't wait for what PTA does next but Magnolia = wtfwasthat shit. The frogs falling everywhere etc. maybe I just didn't get it.

 

[Rafa=FedKilla]

You forgot what Oliver Stone said about Tarantino.

"Tarantino makes movies, I make films."

 

[Callo Merlose]

The only thing good about Vincent Gallo is that Vincent Volaju (from Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door) is based off of him.

 

[Always-honest]

# 30 is the best

 

[andymcc]

This is exactly how I feel about Bergman.



This guy is out of his mind.



I agree with this. PTA is incredible, but Magnolia was pretentious and bloated. I LOVED Cruise's performance, and There Will be Blood is one of my favorite films I always can't wait for what PTA does next but Magnolia = wtfwasthat shit. The frogs falling everywhere etc. maybe I just didn't get it.

The problem with Smith's criticism of PTA is that he's even more guilty of self-indulgence and pretense.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Ha, Roger Ebert called The Brown Bunny the worst film to ever screen at Cannes, Gallo called him a “fat pig."Ebert responded “although I am fat, one day I will be thin, but Mr. Gallo will still have been the director of The Brown Bunny.” Also: ” I had a colonoscopy once, and they let me watch it on TV. It was more entertaining than The Brown Bunny.”

Ebert also liked the recut of The Brown Bunny and saw it as a great example of the power of editing. They get along now, I think. Clint and Spike also made up.

 

[twinturbo2]

Vincent Gallo? He's the guy who made The Brown Bunny, right?

What the hell gives him the right to insult other people?

 

[bengraven]

Fuck, Vincent Gallo would fucking HATE me.

“He’s the biggest fraud out there. If you bring him to a party he’s the least interesting person at the party, he’s the person who doesn’t know anything. He’s the person who doesn’t say anything funny, interesting, intelligent… He’s a pig piece of shit.”

That's me! Hey Vince, does that mean the party is off for Saturday night!?

 

[Puddles]

Does Gallo even have talent?

 

[bengraven]

Does Gallo even have talent?

Gallo is one of those men whose intelligence surpasses most, so that you speak to him and he talks above your head, possibly not even relevant to the conversation and so you assume that he's a genius. His backers and producers watch his shitty fucking movies and think to themselves: "he's so intelligent, I'm assuming there's something I missed...okay, now we're filming the part where he cums in Cloe's mouth..."

 

[iNvid02]

knew kevin smith would be in there

 

[StuBurns]

I've met Gallo, and he was very nice. He's just trolling.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Don't get the Eastwood hate as a director, guy's made some great films. Changeling was the best film of 2008.

Me either, I love his films.

I do think Cameron sucks ass though. His best work is 80s action movies with awesome special effects*. He is no great director.

*which I am an extreme fan of

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Can anyone tell me why Vincent Gallo is famous except that he got his dick sucked in "The Brown Bunny" by that stupid woman that calls herself an actress?

 

[MarkMclovin]

So ITT, we are made aware of unknown directors who are Jelly.

And of the directors we do know of, are bellends.

 

[Marleyman]

Uwe Boll made some excellent points about Tree of Life.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

You know, I honestly DO think Uwe is right about the Creation fugue and the ending in Tree of Life being detriments to the overall film. But fuck me is that comment hilarious.

Edit: icarus dispensing more of that patented insight. Godard is possibly the most overrated director in history, and I've seen probably a half-dozen of his most famous films; it's not as though I just watched one and walked away. I fucking tried.

 

[HiResDes]

Watch Alphaville.

Oh I have it's quite boring, although the dialogue isn't half bad...But can you guys honestly tell me that Bergman never bored you at any instance? How about Tarkovsky?

Edit: Snowy have you seen Pierrot Le Fou?

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Oh I have it's quite boring, although the dialogue isn't half bad...But can you guys honestly tell me that Bergman never bored you at any instance? How about Tarkovsky?

Edit: Snowy have you seen Pierrot Le Fou?

No. But after, I think, six of the man's movies, I'm not exactly rushing out at any recommendations. My problem with the man's work is not boredom; my problem with the man's work is actually Welles' problem: he clearly had an eye and SOME sense for artistry, but his level of thinking and ideas are always just so shallow, especially compared to, well, several on that list (Antonioni and Bergman come to mind)

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

So? Import and influence do not make something good, they make it...important and influential. There is a huge difference.

Fritz Lang was more of both of those things AND a good director, if you want an example.

Well doesn't it sort of go without saying? You can hardly change cinema history and influence the most significant directors anywhere in the world over the previous 50 years by being not good now, can you?
Lang loved Godard for what it's worth. By what definition is Lang good where Godard isn't? Technically, Godard was more skilled than Lang and you can hardly judge great artists by entertainment value as that's purely subjective so I'm curious.....?

Edit: icarus dispensing more of that patented insight. Godard is possibly the most overrated director in history, and I've seen probably a half-dozen of his most famous films; it's not as though I just watched one and walked away. I fucking tried.

So he's overrated by your say so now?
Let's say I find all Fellini films bores and therefore think he's a terrible director. Am I right in calling him a terrible filmmaker and his work overrated? Or should I simply say Fellini isn't for me and leave it at that?

 

[HiResDes]

Most directors seems shallow in comparison to those two, I don't even think that's fair.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Jo: the difference is that I think that Fellini's art is objectively defensible according to metrics such as depth and complexity, deep and compelling characterization, quality of acting, use of a soundtrack to achieve a specific effect rather than just cutting it randomly in and out to point out the artifice of it (as if Godard didn't do enough of that), cinematography that is not only pretty but deeply communicative of the story and ideas happening on the screen, etc.

I've read many, many defenses of why Godard's filmmaking is good or deep, and I haven't found a single one that I thought was intellectually compelling or accurate. So, based on that, I say that he's overrated, in the same way that I think Spielberg is overrated. Now, Godard was certainly important and influential, as was the whole New Wave, but those aren't the same thing at all. And in what world is Godard more technically skilled than Lang? What movie has he ever made that shows more technical facility than Metropolis or M?

I think Welles' take on Godard is the most fair: he has a good eye and there ARE moments where his attempts to undermine and/or satirize the conventions and artifice of art do work, such as the fact that the gun in Contempt never gets used (undermining of Chekhov's gun). But, at the same time, his level of thinking and the level of depth with which to really engage in his movies is simply not up to snuff with the great filmmakers of history.

 

[dmshaposv]

Godard is possibly the most overrated director in history, and I've seen probably a half-dozen of his most famous films; it's not as though I just watched one and walked away. I fucking tried.

I feel the same about about Felini, granted I need to see more films by him.

But yeah, Godard, the only film I like by him is breathless. Most of his other films are exercises in pretentiousness - I absolutely hate his characters in just about all the films I've seen. They act like children in a playground, acting completely immature yet babble on about exsistentialism and other pseudo-intellectual stuff.

I appreciate his craft and film-making techniques but dislike the actual content of his films.

 

[HiResDes]

Godard's characters are young, immature, and inexperienced yet highly inquisitive in their views of the world/life. Their adolescence captures man at his most vulnerable....The breaking point in which he finds that the world is an effervescent dream or an indomitable nightmare.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Godard's characters are young, immature, and inexperienced yet highly inquisitive in their views of the world/life. Their adolescence captures man at his most vulnerable....The breaking point in which he finds that the world is an effervescent dream or an indomitable nightmare.

Godard's characters are rather shallowly-limned, that's my problem; if they were what you were saying, I'd probably dig him. This would be the greatest slightly pretentious plot description of Stand By Me ever, also.

 

[Zoramon089]

I think the first one is moderately good, but mainly it's his dumb implication that not reading comics means you can't make a good superhero movie.

Well I think it's pretty reasonable to expect a director to at least read the source material before directing a movie about it...I mean, Batman only has TWO main rules, no firearms and no killing, and Burton Batman was blowing people up left and right

 

[Hasan]

Also they missed Godard on Kieslowski.

Something like, " I prefer the rugged humanism of Kiarostami over designer mysticism of kieslowski."