holygeesus
Banned
They won't drop it, they will just evolve it.
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3DM claim to have cracked Denuvo
- Thread starter StalkerUKCG
- Start date
They won't drop it, they will just evolve it.
Have you ever looked at the PC game sales?
Years will pass until someone comes up with a new "uncrackable" DRM solution, just take a look at the past.
Lanrutcon
Member
There are far more important issues in play when it comes to developer preservation than any form of DRM.
While selfish, it's true.
These are products for consumption. The consumers interests are the ideal, because if they go, this whole optional medium can fuck off into a hole. As such, the consumer should be forced to go through as few loops as possible to enjoy said products, and if it involves DRM and authentication, especially of old games with a dead server, circumvention is not only ideal, but necessary.
If we're talking about present day products and piracy, that's different. I sit on the fence of "try to make a game that can get a userbase to sustain it, regardless of circumventions." If a person wants to pirate a game, I doubt them having to wait X months or weeks will really sway them on buying it; they'll have something else to do with their time instead. As such, these measures really only stop the niche of niches in a sense, unless you play the "download = sale" card, and for that you should be laughed at. That's almost as bad as a "playing a song on the radio for your friends = stolen song for all of those who didn't buy it" kind of shit the RIAA was doing a decade ago.
CecilRousso
Member
The recent years we've had more PC versions of console titles, and more dedicated PC titles, then in a very long time, without Denuvo.
In a world where GTA V manages to sell over 4 million copies alone on Steam, and probably another 4 or more millions in non-steam copies despite being cracked since day one, I don't buy the whole "skipping PC because of piracy". Couple it with the fact that more and more games get PC versions every year without the need for intrusive DRM, and success stories like Dragon's Dogma, that sold almost 300 000 in less than a month despite being pirated 1 week in advance... and it's a excuse that does not holp up in the slightest.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Consoles sooner or later end up emulated.., so it's still posible to preserve console exclusives as well.
Nowadays develop for consoles is very similar to pc, so I don't think company cares too much if the cost is almost the same, they will not lose money for a bunch of pirates.
petran79
Banned
They'll drop one cryptography service in favour of another
holygeesus
Banned
I don't think they will though. They 'cracked' a previous iteration didn't they? I'm sure Dragon Age: Inquisition had a crack come out a while after release, but like all other methods, it was unreliable at best. It's just a game of cat and mouse that will never end. As long as big releases aren't cracked immediately after release (or before in some cases) company will still splash out the cash on it, as the first few weeks are crucial for game sales.
CadetMahoney
Member
Developers are more at risk from legitimate gamers passing up on their titles than they are from pirates.
Gurgelhals
Member
/not obscure
You could be wrong or you could be right though.
They didn't, they found a exploit that allowed bypassing the DRM but Denuvo was still there. And that exploit was fixed later.
XCOM 2 just sold 600.000 units in its first week and was on every torrent site since first day, and it is a purely single player game, food for pirates.
Companies someday will realize stopping piracy is less effective to increasing sales(if it does increase sales at all) than releasing a good product.
Im one of those that dont care about Denuvo. If a game is good enough for me I will buy it and if it isnt I'll just ignore it. Denuvo doesn't hurt performance at all and the ones complaining about it are just uninformed or mad they can't pirate. In any case, I admit that hearing the cries from the people that think they deserve to play free games while the majority use their own money to support the developers and publishers, is very satisfying.
People that say this are just dumb or uninformed. (this is pretty easy)
You have examples in this very thread about why people legitimately dislike this type of DRM.
Lanrutcon
Member
So here we have a shitty post.
You're either pro Denuvo, stupid or a stinky pirate, eh?
holygeesus
Banned
So you are saying, had XCOM 2 Denuvo protection, it would have sold less? I don't buy that (ba-doom tish)
Maybe it would have sold more, maybe it would have sold less(no study has shown a correlation between piracy and sales).
But the argument of DRM as a need for PC games to sell well at launch is more than debunked.
I guess? I know people (including me) that won't buy a game if it has Denuvo.
holygeesus
Banned
It's all about the financials though isn't it. If it is going to cost them x amount to license Denuvo, they must weigh up whether the loss of sales, due to people pirating the game, is going to be worth paying for it. I just don't believe that more people actively avoid Denuvo-ed games, than steal them, so they will always be losing sales.
Given the established fan-base of a game like XCom 2 - couldn't you argue those sales aren't that great?
CecilRousso
Member
Aren't great, compared to what? It's a turnbased strategy title, so what other similiar titles sells more then that, and faster?
Given the fact that XCOM 2 is so successful because of the outstanding modsupport that would be severly hampered by denuvo, i can tell you for a fact it would have sold less on its launch and it would sell a lot less over the coming years because mods are what keeps this kind of game and its stable sales alive for multiple years.
Not everything is financials, a game with Denuvo has less value than a DRM-Free one, and it is a less quality software. It is also about consumer loyalty.
And no, 600.000 units in its first week is great, game will probably sell millions with the years.
Again, the source post is 95% gibberish mixed with a few facts.ChryZ said:
Pointing a finger at virtualization and complaining how it affects performance in protected software is analogue to those health-food blogs complaining about food "chemicals" just because they have scary names.
Lanrutcon
Member
Lord no. XCom is a turn based strategy/management game, and those are niche. For it to being doing as well as it is speaks volumes, but it'll never be huge. It's doing amazingly well for what it is.
Plus the established fan-base of Xcom is firmly split between the original games and the modern ones. While there is obviously overlap, there's also a chunky divide.
At that point I just show them my library of hundreds of games, and the Kickstarter projects I've backed for hundreds of dollars.
I don't care about intentions in this case. I care about results. And whether it's through publisher neglect or conviction (e.g. CDPR), if the result is a DRM-free game I'm enthused about it.Gemüsepizza;194985665 said:
What about the legitimate concerns of people who buy hundreds of games and care deeply about the medium?
Well, it's all we got so far and until there's more information I'll trust neither the publisher nor the hacker. Better safe than sorry. Cheers for the heads up.
No surprises, such things are inevitable. If a single DRM becomes too popular and everyone starts to use it, more and more people will have a try at it, and sooner or later a solution will be found. Denuvo wasn't the first "uncrackable" DRM, and it sure won't be the last.
As for the arguments how piracy is hurting the PC support in general, I just can't see it. In fact, I don't think there ever was a time when the PC was getting this much developer support. For example, I never would've thought I'd see the day when I can play practically the entire FF series on the PC. As such, I'm more in favor with the anti-DRM arguments... as a consumer, I like having the piece of mind knowing my game purchase doesn't contain something which could cause immediate performance issues or compatibility issues down the line due to OS changes, etc, while the same thing doesn't provide any proven or noticeable benefit to me. I find DRM clients like Steam and similar perfectly agreeable, but I can't say the same for additional "exotic" layers of DRM.
As for the arguments how piracy is hurting the PC support in general, I just can't see it. In fact, I don't think there ever was a time when the PC was getting this much developer support. For example, I never would've thought I'd see the day when I can play practically the entire FF series on the PC. As such, I'm more in favor with the anti-DRM arguments... as a consumer, I like having the piece of mind knowing my game purchase doesn't contain something which could cause immediate performance issues or compatibility issues down the line due to OS changes, etc, while the same thing doesn't provide any proven or noticeable benefit to me. I find DRM clients like Steam and similar perfectly agreeable, but I can't say the same for additional "exotic" layers of DRM.
they mostly gonna drop the DRM after 5 years, or when the company no longer available.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Apparently the 'crack' is out, but not by 3DM, but by SKIDROW, and it's what I predicted it would be. A 'solution' and not a fully working Denuvo crack.
That's fair - but given that a rather large portion of the medium (financially speaking, vast majority of it) is service based now, DRM is a pretty minor issue when it comes to preservation. And if you listen to cloud-proponents, local content should be abandoned alltogether.Durante said:
Ironically, it's the new mediums like VR that stand the best chance to reverse the trends for people that care about physical and DRM-free stuff - at least temporarily.
I get that, but the original post from reddit was practically asking for a witch-hunt on code-Virtualization, which is more than a little silly considering tools like VMProtect are at least half a decade old now, and have been used in shipping games much longer than its publicly advertised.ChryZ said:
I don't see why this would be the case? Denuvo hasn't been around for long, and for a couple of years we had pretty much universal, reasonable, ineffective DRM on single player games.
Well then it's not the crack being discussed in this thread, is it?
No, they won't. Has GFWL taught people nothing?
CecilRousso
Member
DRM/Anti-Tamper/Whatever very often doesn't get dropped, even when it doesn't serve any purpose longer. GfWL is the best example, and games like Crysis 1 is still sold with Securom (the devs couldn't be bothered to patch it out, so they just raised maximum number of activations).
Because that has nothing to do with this thread. It isn't even the real SKIDROW.
"We have about 10 copies of the game, and that allows about 50-100 users to start the game/day. Once user starts the game, he can continue playing without ANY problem. We will add more copies and that will allow more users to start the game without any error."
Haha.
luca_29_bg
Member
They are not the real skidrow, and they are using a workaround from another guy. It's not so much different than family sharing.
Real skidrow is not connected with that site, same for 3DM.
While there's no way of knowing, my gut tells me that sales would not improve significantly if piracy went away.
I'm going to guess pirates aren't more dedicated to finishing games than people who buy them. We know from achievement lists and memes about backlogs (as well as some scattered statements from publishers here and there) that very few people finish games. I am sure even in the case of pirates, these giant AAA games just eat up hard drive space in their downloads folder.
So my guess is if piracy went away, people without much expendable cash would just skip these games rather than pay full retail price for whatever the latest action adventure game with light RPG elements is.
Also I know Undertale has been one of the most seeded games on torrent sites since its release and it was still very successful. I'm sure sometime in the near future we will hear what a success Xcom 2 has been for Firaxis.
The point is I'm not that concerned.
I'm going to guess pirates aren't more dedicated to finishing games than people who buy them. We know from achievement lists and memes about backlogs (as well as some scattered statements from publishers here and there) that very few people finish games. I am sure even in the case of pirates, these giant AAA games just eat up hard drive space in their downloads folder.
So my guess is if piracy went away, people without much expendable cash would just skip these games rather than pay full retail price for whatever the latest action adventure game with light RPG elements is.
Also I know Undertale has been one of the most seeded games on torrent sites since its release and it was still very successful. I'm sure sometime in the near future we will hear what a success Xcom 2 has been for Firaxis.
The point is I'm not that concerned.
I've written about exactly that before.
VR isn't just fantastic because of its inherent qualities, it also saves us from the cloud dystopia!
(And cloud proponents who believe that local content should be abandoned altogether should just bugger off)
Bohemia's ArmA games are the same. This is also not considering the fact that because they update the game nearly every day on devbranch, you're almost at a disservice for pirating the game.
DRM in many ways is a hindrance, especially regarding products that value their consumers far beyond just playing content made by the developer.
luca_29_bg
Member
indeed. When the debuggers x64 will be more advanced, it will be the end of denuvo ^^
Not only 3DM can crack/emulates games, just to remember this!
potatohead
Member
That will be relevant in about 10 years, but not now.
Most "games preservation sites" that are operate as close as they can off the books use a ~10 year "safe year" for what can be uploaded.
For stuff before then preservation is really important, but within that 10 years not so much.
not really ... in case of games 10 years is way too much...
... look at GfWL for example 4 years ago you could buy stuff on their marketplace without a problem .... now you can't even download your bought games and at least i my case I can't even run legally steam version of GTA4 on Win10 without the use of xliveless (which is crack)
or even previous protection from Denuvo creators aka Securom ..... you cant legally play those games without messing with win security stuff or applying cracks
So? It's still DRM. Not being able to create backups is literally DRM. What if your cat scratches your disc? What if your house burns down? What if there's a robbery? At least with Steam your games are safe since every game has a cloud backup.
They're different kinds of DRM, sure, but saying that console games don't have DRM is obviously absurd.
How is this a shame? DRM is not beneficial for consumers in anyway.