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6'th gen hardware wars: Game Cube vs Xbox OG vs PS2 vs Dreamcast
- Thread starter pawel86ck
- Start date
Chozofication_
Banned
And you suggest Metroid Prime 2 models looks better?
.
Levels in Metroid Prime 2 are also small
And now lets look at textures
Stone texture in Metroid Prime 2 and Halo 1
Ground texture
Metroid Prime 2 is not the best looking FPS game on 6'th gen, IMO even "Black" on PS2 looks better than Metroid Prime 2.
You're comparing 30 to 60 and a game that I already, in earnest, said that does not screenshot well. In motion, it's a good looking game that runs like butter.And you suggest Metroid Prime 2 models looks better?
.
Levels in Metroid Prime 2 are also small
And now lets look at textures
Stone texture in Metroid Prime 2 and Halo 1
Ground texture
Metroid Prime 2 is not the best looking FPS game on 6'th gen, IMO even "Black" on PS2 looks better than Metroid Prime 2. If you want to talk about graphics there's no comparsion to halo games, not only halo games use DX8 to the extreme but also feature much bigger levels so it's possible to use vehicles and even flying ships sometimes unlike metroid prime 2.
As for textures, if you look back at my posts I mentioned xbox is capable of higher res textures due to memory.
One game that's a great example that takes poor screenshots is prince of Persia on Wii. Looks like dog shit in screens, but running in 60fps, with swaying foliage from wind makes it look a lot better in motion. I maintain that echoes looks best among the sci fi fps. Take of that what you will, I'm done with this circle jerk.
Screenshot wars suck. Speaking of black, theres a post of mine in here where i listed it as best looking *realistic* fps. Best on all 3 consoles.
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Romulus
Member
Riddick isn't 30fps. I could immediately tell you were wrong about that when I booted it up. It's much closer to 60fps with drops.
Chozofication_
Banned
Lol omg riddick is not 60. Even dark Athena and the remaster on 360. It's 30, prove me wrong.
You can give me the dumbest tag ever if you can show riddick is 60.
If you can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 you should stay quiet.
You can give me the dumbest tag ever if you can show riddick is 60.
If you can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 you should stay quiet.
Chozofication_
Banned
I guess ubisoft was right, 30fps is all you need.
Romulus
Member
What's up with the fake blocks, name calling, and telling people to stay quiet? You even had to be warned by the mods. It's just a bizarre dynamic considering you're an adult. People can be wrong. I was wrong earlier in the thread about something. It happens, you were wrong about Metroid loading rooms, but you tried to downplay it.
Anyway, Anthena is far more visually demanding. If you're right, Riddick is incredibly good at convincing me its smoother than it is. I'll check to see if I have an embedded FPS counter on my modded Xbox. Either way, it shouldn't run at 60fps on this hardware.
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Chozofication_
Banned
You actually are still blocked but I looked at the ignored content.
It's frustrating to me because I actually am neutral in this comparison, and from the very beginning never said the cube was better at everything ; you can check.
And nope, i said there was more than one room in memory, the other guy said it has one room at a time. We both moved on as it seemed to be a misunderstanding in communication.
But most of you are starting from "no way Xbox is the best I'll show him" instead of hmm maybe cube has advantages, maybe not, but let's check.
I have invested too much in this thread, that's for sure. I'll take a break.
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Romulus
Member
Fair enough.
V4skunk
Banned
What are you even arguing about? My entire point through out my posts is that GC pushes more polygons than xbox. Which is a fact.Yes, Riddick has low poly models, but with DX8 featues these low poly models are masked and looks good (sometimes like real)
And with advanced lighting possible thanks to DX8 even simple room look extremely impressive
I was playing Riddick yesterday and it looks like an early 360/ps3 era game. On the other hand Metroid Prime 2 looked like PS2 game to me. I have provided screenshot to show what I mean and if these screenshots looks good to you then we have nothing to talk about because it looks like you can only ignore the reality. I have asked you for impressive metroid prime 2 screenshots, and you have posted videos from mario games.
That other guy also proved nothing, I didn't see him post Riddick in mesh.
I also posted a video from Metroid Prime 2 and a selection of other GC exclusives, try harder.
MP2 does not look like a ps2 game, try harder. It has geometry on par with RE4, of which I also posted a ps2 vs GC comparison showing superior geometry on GC. Ps2 also had a higher pixel fill rate than xbox meaning that Ps2 could outperform xbox in geometry.
pawel86ck
Banned
PS2 could outperform xbox hardware in geometry haha, sure multiplatforms proves that. Man you live in a fantasy world but at least I know you are here just to troll.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I mean, I dunno if it was the best, but it sure was pretty good. What more do you need other than impressive games that wowed everyone back in the day like Resident Evil 4 and Rogue Squadron to be convinced it had "polygon capabilities"?
This or that system doing this or that better doesn't mean these were all suddenly shit considering the generation discussed here. They did impress people and with good reason.
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Romulus
Member
Sure it was good, but we're discussing actual numbers and capabilities. In no way does it make the games "shit" or anything like that. That's taking it to another level completely.
EightBit Man
Member
Thief: Deadly Shadows was very impressive I think:
pawel86ck
Banned
I have checked it for myself and Riddick has unlocked fps exactly like you have said. It's 60fps sometimes, but most of the time it's around 30-40fps. It's easy to see when game is running at close to 30fps because there's a judder during motion, while in 60fps there's no judder.
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Romulus
Member
That makes more sense then. The save file was at the beginning of the game with low numbers on enemies during encounters. It seems much smoother than 30fps. I noticed it immediately.
Vorg
Banned
Don't you guys hate it when everyone is wrong and you're the only one who knows the TRUTH. Seriously dude, you should just stop. Even if the gc pushes more polygons (doubtful) , that doesn't reflect in better looking games. Metroid Prime is an amazing game, but it would absolutely be possible on the ps2. It's not a great looking game.
Chozofication_
Banned
If that's the case it just means there's no proper 30fps cap like killzone shadow fall rather than an impressive performance metric.
However I'm genuinely curious to see proof of this. I know for certain that the 360 version is capped at 30.
Vorg
Banned
Assault on dark athena isn't just a port though. The graphics were overhauled to have more polygons, the textures are either much higher resolution or have been replaced altogether and the shadows, lighting and effects look way better. Basically got a major upgrade to match the next generation hardware. We'd be comparing apples and oranges.
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dolabla
Member
This thread is making me want to hook my PS2 and GameCube up. Anybody on here use the HD Retrovision component cables with their PS2? I may get some to hook up to my Framemeister. And definitely plan to get that HDMI GameCube adapter, either the Corby or the Eon Mark II. Corby is cheaper which makes it more tempting. Anybody own one of these two HDMI GameCube adapters?
The Dreamcast was a well ahead in his time, but contrary to some, its actually weaker than the PS2 (this all started because Yu Suzuki said that Shenmue II was not viable on PS2 but rather on Xbox), however, its considered one of the easiest to program, with lots of homebrew games to prove it.
The PS2 while was the weakest by far compared to the GC and Xbox, had a very fast texture fillrate, I think it was considered the fastest fill rate by a long margin, but was the least good to program.
The Gamecube was powerful, but got ousted pretty quickly by the Xbox on that, nonethless, gave impressive games that on the PS2 had to be scaled down even on the polycount, such as RE4 and Killer 7, RE4 IMO looking back, was kinda like a preview of the next generation on the console. Funny enough, the minidisc had made the the reader's laser job easier, since it would have to travel way less compared to the normal DVD, and therefore the loadings were quick. Sadly its small data size was considered a hinder, because they also had to compress textures and videos.
The Xbox was the beast, it definitely looked like a next generation console, i've heard that during the early x360 days, many nicknamed it the Xbox 1.5 due to games not representing a huge leap when compared to its predecessor, it was amazing that it could run games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2, even if they ran on lower quality, that was not expected on the other consoles.
The PS2 while was the weakest by far compared to the GC and Xbox, had a very fast texture fillrate, I think it was considered the fastest fill rate by a long margin, but was the least good to program.
The Gamecube was powerful, but got ousted pretty quickly by the Xbox on that, nonethless, gave impressive games that on the PS2 had to be scaled down even on the polycount, such as RE4 and Killer 7, RE4 IMO looking back, was kinda like a preview of the next generation on the console. Funny enough, the minidisc had made the the reader's laser job easier, since it would have to travel way less compared to the normal DVD, and therefore the loadings were quick. Sadly its small data size was considered a hinder, because they also had to compress textures and videos.
The Xbox was the beast, it definitely looked like a next generation console, i've heard that during the early x360 days, many nicknamed it the Xbox 1.5 due to games not representing a huge leap when compared to its predecessor, it was amazing that it could run games like Doom 3 and Half Life 2, even if they ran on lower quality, that was not expected on the other consoles.
pawel86ck
Banned
If you want to see a real proof you must play Riddick on real hardware for yourself because I have no framerate benchmarking tool/software to measure framerate. I can only use my own eyes and I can see a clear judder most of the time during motion like in 30 fps games, and no judder when you look at some low demanding scene (and especially empty wall). Also latency is clearly improved when game hits 60 fps and it's much easier to aim then. To me it looks like real 60fps sometimes but I would rather see locked 30fps.
I have started this thread because of your claims. You have said GC was the best from the technical standpoint
What's funny people here have booted up DOA ultimate in wire frame mode, but it's still not enough for you.
And when shaders and DX8 was mentioned you have said
GC had no shadow buffer technology, no pixel and vertex shaders so how you can expect TEV unit alone to emulate everything. For example after geforce 5 Nvidia has no longer supported shadow buffer technology in their GPU and it was a problem in certain games. In order to emulate these shadows in splinter cell games shaders can be used but with very big performance penalty. There's no way GC hardware would emulate everything with good performance results and that's why developers rarely tried to emulate similar effects like on xbox. TEV in GC and DX8 features in xbox arnt equivalent.
You have also said GC compared to xbox was a monster when it comes to polygons. Your opinion was surprising to me but I was willing to change my mind if only GC games would indeed look as good as you suggested. Because of that I have played the best looking xbox and GC games after so many years just to refresh my memory and see if you are indeed right. But it turned out my memory was correct, in fact in 480p (in xbox classic era I was only playing 480i on CRT) these xbox games looked even more impressive then I have remembered and I have posted many screenshots because I like to show what I'm talking about. Compared to Metroid Prime 2 I can see much more objects on the screen in these halo games, much bigger levels, better textures (with bump mapping and shader effects everywhere on top of that).
My screenshots shows how detailed xbox and GC games were and dont blame static screenshots because I have also played these games for myself, and I could see the same amount of objects and low texture quality also during actual gameplay.
Chozofication_
Banned
Proof or not it really doesn't matter either way.
Thats right, I still do say GameCube was the better more balanced machine. However not once did i say it was more powerful. Due to the bandwidth, optimal fsb speed and eDRAM tricks it could achieve better results than Xbox if given the effort, in most genres.
You have added 0 to the conversation and were bothered enough to make a thread.
It's telling that in the op, you chose decent prime 2 shots but later you chose the worst you could find. However I never said i foind prime to be among the best of the best in the gen ; only in terms of sci fi fps. It is a damn great looking game in motion though. Your thoughts, like it looks a ps2 game shows your bias.
From the beginning I said GameCube couldn't do normals or stencil shadows ; it's just that these come with such a cost on xbox that it makes the games look worse (due to lower polys) and run worse.
Comparing a fighter which has two characters to frankly most genres is a joke and proves nothing.
This thread was fun but a waste in the end. Nobody changed their mind on anything it's like monkey's fighting over football teams.
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Negotiator
Member
TEV is analogous to GeForce 2 (register combiner) at best. It cannot run pixel shaders in any shape or form.
How do they guarantee backwards compatibility (PC games, OG XBOX BC) when they axe features like that?
I remember GeForce 3 had the fixed-function circuitry of GeForce 2 for T&L BC (since the programmable vertex shader pipeline was too slow to emulate it in real time), but later on nVidia ditched it when T&L emulation via vertex shaders became fast enough.
Got a source about that? Seems kinda strange to me.
How do they guarantee backwards compatibility (PC games, OG XBOX BC) when they axe features like that?
I remember GeForce 3 had the fixed-function circuitry of GeForce 2 for T&L BC (since the programmable vertex shader pipeline was too slow to emulate it in real time), but later on nVidia ditched it when T&L emulation via vertex shaders became fast enough.
One interesting thing in regard the Xbox and Gamecube, was that the Xbox had ceased its production around the time the X360 went to manufacturing, was that because Microsoft sued Nvidia in 2002 and won the case? And even with the production ceasing, there was a number of mid to high profile games being released on the console from that point until the end of 2006, while the GC was nearly dead in that year as many of those games skipped the console.
Splinter Cell 1 and Pandora Tomorrow had a shadow issue a few years after its release that required third party fixes, it must have been because of that
Splinter Cell 1 and Pandora Tomorrow had a shadow issue a few years after its release that required third party fixes, it must have been because of that
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MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I use RGB Scart for PS2 coupled with a Framemiester at the 480p output setting into a Sony 4K receiver then into an mCable 1080p output to a Sony 4K LCD.
If the game supports 480p I use an OSSC in place of the framemiester in 480p pass-through mode.
Sample close up image taken with phone camera in this thread, but you get the idea.
Anyone using the latest mCable Gaming Edition?
Got a new 4k tv and I'm just thinking about sticking one of these between my receiver, (which does component to hdmi conversion), and my tv. I have a ps2 and ps3 connected to the receiver. Anyone done this or using the 2017 version of the cable? I'd love some examples or comments.
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EightBit Man
Member
Great (in my opinion) overlooked games from that era:
dolabla
Member
I use RGB Scart for PS2 coupled with a Framemiester at the 480p output setting into a Sony 4K receiver then into an mCable 1080p output to a Sony 4K LCD.
If the game supports 480p I use an OSSC in place of the framemiester in 480p pass-through mode.
Sample close up image taken with phone camera in this thread, but you get the idea.
Anyone using the latest mCable Gaming Edition?
Got a new 4k tv and I'm just thinking about sticking one of these between my receiver, (which does component to hdmi conversion), and my tv. I have a ps2 and ps3 connected to the receiver. Anyone done this or using the 2017 version of the cable? I'd love some examples or comments.www.neogaf.com
That looks nice. That mcable looks like it does indeed work? Colors also seem to be richer?
I actually have my PS1 hooked up with scart, but I thought I'd go component with the PS2. I have an OSSC as well. Since the PS2 is mostly 480i, I'll be using the Framemeister though since it does deinterlacing.
How exactly are the PS2 480i games on the OSSC?
Esppiral
Member
Are you referring to the Xbox emulador? Afaik all has been done reverse engineering, if you want to collaborate in the project there is a discord for CXBX-R
pawel86ck
Banned
You can play splinter cell 1-2 games on PC and see for yourself. Shadows are not rendered for the reason explained in this video. But if you want to see splinter cell 1 in it's full glorry on PC you can use dgvoodoo (DX8 emulator). Game looks perfect thanks to dgvoodoo because it has shadow buffer wrapper but of course performance impact is much bigger compared to standard game. GPU's with shader model 3 can emulate shadow buffer shadows with good results and even x360 GPU could do it, but I doubt GC hardware would do it without shaders.
Here's nvidia article in regards to shadow buffers technology if you are interested
I dont have exact list of games that used shadow buffers on xbox, but these shadows have distinct unfiltered look and I can see them not only in splinter cell games but also in racing games like PGR2 or Ralli 2. Cars and many word objects cast dynamic shadows.
Saying GameCube was the best technically clearly suggest it was more powerful. When I say Metroid Prime 2 looks like a PS2 game I really mean it becauae there's literally nothing in Metroid Prime 2 that PS2 wouldnt handle. Small levels, simple square objects, low quality textures and no shader effects. I have even used screenshots to prove why I think Metroid Prime 2 looks like a PS2 game. If you think my screenshots dont reflect how good game looks you can post your own screenshots, in fact that's what believable person would do to support his opinion. Do you really expect people here to believe you just because you say so?
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Breakdown was awesome, think about a japanese Half Life, but its controls are clunky as hell, due to that it ends up bumping the difficulty, it was the first game i've finished on the Xbox One X, funny that it is a mostly unknown title that is even BC with the xbox 360. It's a shame that it never got a sequel.
Romulus
Member
Try to find a game on Gamecube that pushes this amount of polys on screen,
Hint: you won't.
Holy shit.
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Negotiator
Member
Modern Windows OSes don't even support DX8 properly? Wow, I thought BC was a given for PCs (not talking about proprietary APIs like Glide, Direct3D is a Microsoft staple technology, so there's no excuse).
Is shadow buffer some sort of fixed-function circuitry (like T&L) and it was ditched because modern GPUs offer a programmable shader alternative? Unless it was proprietary tech like RTX. I don't remember if ATi cards supported shadow buffer tech.
Had Outcast 2 been released, it would have been one of the most impressive PS2 titles in the visual department,
Appeal would have been the "Crytek" of the PS2, you can check out the channel of one of its former directors, Franck Sauer
Even the poorly received game, Mountain Bike Adrenaline, has great graphics for the console, was also developed by Sauer.
Appeal would have been the "Crytek" of the PS2, you can check out the channel of one of its former directors, Franck Sauer
Even the poorly received game, Mountain Bike Adrenaline, has great graphics for the console, was also developed by Sauer.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Component on PS2 doesn't look as good as RGB Scart in my opinion, but the framemiester won't take anything above 480i from the PS2 with RGB Scart without an RGsB to RGBHV converter (like an extron interface). It can take anything from component but there are two problems here. The framemiester D-terminal component input is good but not as nice as scart. Also, you will get some issues with color and Gamma this way too.
However, the OSSC will take 480p and 1080i, so for 480p or 1080i that's what I use. I use pass-through mode.
The OSSC is a line doubler. So 480i on the OSSC looks horrible for 3D motion due to the fact that it will only line double the image to reach 480p. It can do pass-through of 480i but only if your TV can accept that.
So I end up using two PS2s right now, but I have ordered an interesting scart switching device called a PS2 Docking Station. I found two of them and plan on simply hooking one up backwards and see if it works. If not I'll just rewire one to do what I want.
A for the mCable itself, I will never go back. It's amazing now that I know how to use it. And the colors are the same, that is the character select for doahc and the background and lighting is constantly moving.
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pawel86ck
Banned
Yes, and some peoole for many years even build retro computers just to play certain old games correctly. But these days there are many patches and workarounds thanks to moders, for example there's a silent patch for far cry 1 that restore correct water rendering, and there's a dgvoodoo for splinter cell games so personally I'm happy playing these old games on my windows 10 PC. On top of that not so long time ago splinter cell games were added to Xbox X and xbox one BC, so many people can enjoy these old classic games on current gen consoles.
Shadow buffers were ditched for the reason you have listed and AMD hardware never supported shadow buffers, and of course there were problems in certain games because of that. For example on AMD cards people had to use projector shadows (much inferior shadows) in splinter cell 1 for example, but these projector shadows looked like a joke compared to shadow buffers. In xbox 360 times they had already other and better technologies to speed up shadow rendering. I have somewhere old magazine that talks about xbox 360 hardware in details and I remember reading there ATI have also build specific technology just for shadows rendering. In xbox classic times however these shadow buffers really made a difference in xbox games. Xbox games used many dynamic shadows even in complex scenes but these shadows werent filtered. What's interesting Xbox one and xbox x BC filters these shadows, and also dgvoodoo emulator on PC use filtering, but on xbox these shadows are always jaggy. I remember reading article in a gaming magazine that talked about these shadow buffers in GeForce 3. These shadows were used in the final fantasy CGI movie and they even tried to replicate certain scens on geforce 3. I remeber seeing these final fantasy tech demo pictures running supposedly on geforce 3 and I was amazed back then.
EDIT- I have found it
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S
SpongebobSquaredance
Unconfirmed Member
I think Headhunter was a nice showcase for Dreamcast.
Sure, MGS2 looked better (also much bigger budget), but still looked good for 2001.
dolabla
Member
Do the FirebrandX PS2 profiles on the Framemeister fix the color and gamma issues?
I might have to look into getting an mcable. It would be cool for someone to release and HDMI plug & play solution like the Gamecube. It seems like I read somewhere that someone is creating one.
Romulus
Member
Its difficult to find alot of developer's opinions now, but another one I ran across on the PS2, Xbox, and GC. He supposedly worked on all three, which is something we don't hear much out of it at all. It's usually some exclusive developer which equals PR to me.
Anyway, if you don't like his assessment it can be fake news but if you do, it can be gospel. Either way he seems pretty respected on the forum. I provided a link below.
He goes on....
In a nutshell, he felt all the consoles were good in their own way, but the Gamecube was over engineered and wouldn't call it more powerful than the ps2 overall. Its interesting that he talks about the polygon count being lower, but I assume this is textured polygons or lit polygons, because the cube could do alot of simple polygons.
Very interesting info on the Gamecube hardware. In that is was an "overreaction" to the N64's limitations. Gamecube's focus on segmented memory being over-engineered makes sense I guess. Look at the prevailing method now with PS4 and XB1, mostly, a large pool of memory with little segmentation, unlike PS3, Gamecube, etc.
He states that the Xbox had a ton of overhead and was underutilized compared to PC games there was a bottleneck but if you spent the time on it, the games could look really good, and I think that's what we've seen in some cases. But it makes me think how much better games could look if they were really pushed.
On the console multiplatform side, I found it interesting speaking about those. The ps2 was the lead platform usually, and all they would do for the Xbox version was higher resolution textures and "call it done." Basically, the Xbox multiplatform advantages we see today could have been greater if optimized. So in both cases, console or PC multiplatforms, the Xbox wasn't really optimized often.
PS2 - Solid, but a pain in the ass.
GC - Good, but over-engineered
Xbox - Great, underutilized
It's just a forum post, but interesting nonetheless
forum.beyond3d.com
Anyway, if you don't like his assessment it can be fake news but if you do, it can be gospel. Either way he seems pretty respected on the forum. I provided a link below.
He goes on....
In a nutshell, he felt all the consoles were good in their own way, but the Gamecube was over engineered and wouldn't call it more powerful than the ps2 overall. Its interesting that he talks about the polygon count being lower, but I assume this is textured polygons or lit polygons, because the cube could do alot of simple polygons.
Very interesting info on the Gamecube hardware. In that is was an "overreaction" to the N64's limitations. Gamecube's focus on segmented memory being over-engineered makes sense I guess. Look at the prevailing method now with PS4 and XB1, mostly, a large pool of memory with little segmentation, unlike PS3, Gamecube, etc.
He states that the Xbox had a ton of overhead and was underutilized compared to PC games there was a bottleneck but if you spent the time on it, the games could look really good, and I think that's what we've seen in some cases. But it makes me think how much better games could look if they were really pushed.
On the console multiplatform side, I found it interesting speaking about those. The ps2 was the lead platform usually, and all they would do for the Xbox version was higher resolution textures and "call it done." Basically, the Xbox multiplatform advantages we see today could have been greater if optimized. So in both cases, console or PC multiplatforms, the Xbox wasn't really optimized often.
PS2 - Solid, but a pain in the ass.
GC - Good, but over-engineered
Xbox - Great, underutilized
It's just a forum post, but interesting nonetheless
Was GC more or less powerful than PS2? *spawn
I have had a hunch or gut feeling Wii U wouldn't be even as powerful as PS360 practically all along. Usually I would state I believed it would be ~30% more powerful, but I always had that hunch. My hunches are often right and later I wish I'd listened to them. So yes, I believe the report. My...
forum.beyond3d.com
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Esppiral
Member
He may be right, but the part where he says (On GameCube the biggest issue is it was just had pathetic triangle throughput ) excuseme sir, but every single game developed for the Game cube shows more rounded characters and complex stages than anything on the Ps2, plus there are multiplatform games that runs at 60 fps on Gamecube and 30 on ps2.
Capcom had to remodel the entirety of Resident evil 4 assets to lower the polycount in other to make it run on ps2.
Capcom had to remodel the entirety of Resident evil 4 assets to lower the polycount in other to make it run on ps2.
Romulus
Member
Well it could be alot of the shortfalls on ps2 were because of its tools and design, not power. It's one of the biggest pains the ass of all time development wise. Maybe re4 is a good example but I would guess there are exclusive games on ps2 with more polygons. Jak 3 etc.
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Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If all the best studios couldn't exploit its supposed strengths despite making the system their primary focus for that generation (for obvious reasons) then that's not even worth theorizing over. It's as powerful as they managed to make it appear, not more so. It's decidedly less powerful than the cube in most ways for sure (and better in some others). Which doesn't mean an AAA production of the era like MGS2 with the highest of budgets and a pioneering tech and art team behind it couldn't look wonderful obviously. Labor, attention to detail and art with the budget to let them work until it's all perfected will always trump specs. If we pit Kojima Productions against Telltale with their usual budgets on top then we know whose game will look better even if the latter works on a next gen system, nevermind on one within the same gen, but it's clear PS2 was weaker.
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Esppiral
Member
More Dreamcast Captures.
Ok, this dude ins Sports Jam looks AMAZING its made of 15.000 polys and to me is the Higest quality character on any 6th gen game, it also runs at 60 fps.
His facial animation, the specular maps in his hair, face/lips and clothes are amazing, granted there is pretty much nothing else on screen, but hey it looks great!
Really this gif is not representative of how good it looks in real time on your telly at 60 fps.
Creepy Wireframe of that guy, even the wrinkles on his forehead are modelled and they move with his facial expressions, also fully modelled teeth.
When people thinks about good graphics on the Dreamcast most think about Shenmue, but there are actually better games in terms of graphics on the system that get systematically overlooked
Formula Grand Prix 2
Sega Extreme Sports is also a fantastic looking game on the system., what you see in the distant background isn't a static bitmap (like in SSX) it is actually fully modelled terrain.
Ecco the Dolphin. (beautiful game)
NBA 2k2
More Le Mans 24h because this games looks fantastic.
Ok, this dude ins Sports Jam looks AMAZING its made of 15.000 polys and to me is the Higest quality character on any 6th gen game, it also runs at 60 fps.
His facial animation, the specular maps in his hair, face/lips and clothes are amazing, granted there is pretty much nothing else on screen, but hey it looks great!
Really this gif is not representative of how good it looks in real time on your telly at 60 fps.
Creepy Wireframe of that guy, even the wrinkles on his forehead are modelled and they move with his facial expressions, also fully modelled teeth.
When people thinks about good graphics on the Dreamcast most think about Shenmue, but there are actually better games in terms of graphics on the system that get systematically overlooked
Formula Grand Prix 2
Sega Extreme Sports is also a fantastic looking game on the system., what you see in the distant background isn't a static bitmap (like in SSX) it is actually fully modelled terrain.
Ecco the Dolphin. (beautiful game)
NBA 2k2
More Le Mans 24h because this games looks fantastic.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If that presenter is just shown by himself in such scenes you might as well compare him to the Shenmue Passport models rather than the in-game stuff. Though they might still be simpler (I don't think they had individual teeth modeled but some of that hair is rad).
Ferrari 355 Challenge looked good too (60 fps not shown).
Ferrari 355 Challenge looked good too (60 fps not shown).
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pawel86ck
Banned
More Dreamcast Captures.
Ok, this dude ins Sports Jam looks AMAZING its made of 15.000 polys and to me is the Higest quality character on any 6th gen game, it also runs at 60 fps.
His facial animation, the specular maps in his hair, face/lips and clothes are amazing, granted there is pretty much nothing else on screen, but hey it looks great!
Really this gif is not representative of how good it looks in real time on your telly at 60 fps.
Creepy Wireframe of that guy, even the wrinkles on his forehead are modelled and they move with his facial expressions, also fully modelled teeth.
When people thinks about good graphics on the Dreamcast most think about Shenmue, but there are actually better games in terms of graphics on the system that get systematically overlooked
Formula Grand Prix 2
Sega Extreme Sports is also a fantastic looking game on the system., what you see in the distant background isn't a static bitmap (like in SSX) it is actually fully modelled terrain.
Ecco the Dolphin. (beautiful game)
NBA 2k2
More Le Mans 24h because this games looks fantastic.
Can you check how many polygons Gman in half life 2 opening scene has?
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Romulus
Member
I have no idea, just the relaying the info. There's alot of talk in this thread about each system not being used to its maximum ability and I don't think the ps2 should be excluded because it was known to the be the most difficult to use. Yes, it doesn't matter now really, the results are clear, but its still fun to discuss and there's no need to tell people what can be and cannot be theorized. Everything is open here outside of naming calling etc. If you don't want to be part of that branch of the discussion, ignore it.