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[sonycowboy]

http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20060718PR200.html

Apple and Sony dictate flash fortunes

Looking at the NAND flash memory market, presently weak conditions are set to change markedly, as Apple and Sony begin to ramp up production of MP3 players for the holiday season. Just as Apple drove the NAND market into a state of shortage in the second half of 2005, when it gobbled up all available parts for use in its iPod nano MP3 player, Apple and Sony will drive market conditions during the last six months of the year.

Sony will become another key NAND buyer with its rich line of consumer products such as MP3 players and game consoles. Sony is expected to employ high-density NAND flash in its upcoming PlayStation Portable 2 (PSP2) and Personal Media Player (PMP) products in the second half of 2006.

Assuming that Apple and Sony successfully introduce their planned products, 41% of global NAND supply will be consumed by the two companies in the fourth quarter, iSuppli estimates. Thus, any moves these companies make will have a dramatic impact on the NAND flash supply/demand situation in the second half of the year.

However, there are unconfirmed rumors that Apple may delay the launch of its next-generation iPod nano. This has depressed NAND spot prices in recent times. Apple's next iPod nano is believed to be a NAND-flash-based PMP.

Sony also is expected to introduce a flash-based PMP, as well as its PSP2, which will have as much as 8 to 10Gbytes of NAND per system.

 

[Frankfurter]

A PSP2? In the second half of 2006...?

 

[DCharlie]

Sony will become another key NAND buyer with its rich line of consumer products such as MP3 players and game consoles. Sony is expected to employ high-density NAND flash in its upcoming PlayStation Portable 2 (PSP2) and Personal Media Player (PMP) products in the second half of 2006.

2 year product cycle for the loss?

i assume by PSP2 they really mean PSP1.1.
or at least, i hope they mean that.

i doubt sony would be stupid enough to splinter the userbase at this point.

 

[lynux3]

I'm sold if true... Sony should have included NAND flash memory to begin with.

 

[sonycowboy]

2 year product cycle for the loss?

i assume by PSP2 they really mean PSP1.1.
or at least, i hope they mean that.

i doubt sony would be stupid enough to splinter the userbase at this point.

I would assume that it's wholly compatible with the PSP and not a new platform. This has been rumored from the introduction of the product, so I'm not sure that you're FTL statement makes much sense.

 

[jj984jj]

So a new model for a $200-300 piece of hardware 2 years later (or maybe sooner)? And the PSP fans were bitching about Nintendo and DS Lite?

How much will this be?

 

[DCharlie]

I would assume that it's wholly compatible with the PSP and not a new platform. This has been rumored from the introduction of the product, so I'm not sure that you're FTL statement makes much sense.

it all depends - the HDD version is probably one of the worst kept industry secrets ever - but whenever it gets mentioned, it's always changed ever so slightly.

re: FTL - i was being somewhat tongue in cheek, but If they do move to downloaded content to reduce cost etc. then i hope that service is not limited to the HDD version and is still open to Mem stick users. If they do release games that are HDD only, that'll be a mistake imo.

Can they not lift the limit on 333 yet? i mean, we've all seen the difference it makes, and given what Namco got out of the regular PSP, my gash might just be dripping.

 

[Wollan]

PSP with that 8-10gb storage, two numbs, touch screen, better battery and slot insertion for UMD aswell as 30% lighter/smaller form, PS3 lookalike font. That is my dream Sony, I don't care about cutting previous owners off.

 

[LOcKY]

i think if a psp revision does arrive, then the game aspects cant change for obvious reason of compatibility.

However for the NAND flash memory it would be useful for its media functions, or perhaps to go along side its sony online plans such as buying PSOne games, movie and music.

they need to decide which path the psp is going, do they want to enchance the game features of the psp? or have they decided to use the psp as a outlet for people to buy media stuff? which probably means a slightly slimmer or resized version down the line as i wouldnt exactly call a psp portable in the sense.

 

[Mmmkay]

Wasn't there the exact same speculation last year when Sony started purchasing lots of NAND flash?

On the rumour front, I was thinking about BC for a PSP2 the other day. I reckon that they would indeed adopt a non-UMD based PSP2, featuring entirely solid state storage. So playing PSP titles would be pretty much out of the question. What they would possibly do is either bundle or sell separately a USB (or proprietary interface) UMD drive which you can hook up to your PSP2 and copy games across. To play games from an external UMD drive is a bit impractical for a portable device.

To do all this, with a solid state gaming device, would require an iTunes style suite to dock your PSP2 with. That way you can actively manage what is on your PSP2 without fear of losing the content permanently. The problem this presents though is the limitations this imposes on prospective buyers who do not have computers handy or a fast inernet connection. For something like the 1GB+ games you'll be dealing with on the PSP2, this may be a bit of a barrier for the next few years at least. There is also the issue of purchasing games in the store. What medium do they come on? Flash is significantly more expensive than UMD so perhaps games will still be on UMD's but you have to install them to play?

 

[sinseers]

http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20060718PR200.html

Apple and Sony dictate flash fortunes

Looking at the NAND flash memory market, presently weak conditions are set to change markedly, as Apple and Sony begin to ramp up production of MP3 players for the holiday season. Just as Apple drove the NAND market into a state of shortage in the second half of 2005, when it gobbled up all available parts for use in its iPod nano MP3 player, Apple and Sony will drive market conditions during the last six months of the year.

Sony will become another key NAND buyer with its rich line of consumer products such as MP3 players and game consoles. Sony is expected to employ high-density NAND flash in its upcoming PlayStation Portable 2 (PSP2) and Personal Media Player (PMP) products in the second half of 2006.

Assuming that Apple and Sony successfully introduce their planned products, 41% of global NAND supply will be consumed by the two companies in the fourth quarter, iSuppli estimates. Thus, any moves these companies make will have a dramatic impact on the NAND flash supply/demand situation in the second half of the year.

However, there are unconfirmed rumors that Apple may delay the launch of its next-generation iPod nano. This has depressed NAND spot prices in recent times. Apple's next iPod nano is believed to be a NAND-flash-based PMP.

Sony also is expected to introduce a flash-based PMP, as well as its PSP2, which will have as much as 8 to 10Gbytes of NAND per system.

Hope this aint true for Sony's case cuz if it is, I can't help but think back to the Genisis/32X/Saturn fiasco. This situation is feeling terribly familiar.

 

[Kroole]

Hope this aint true for Sony's case cuz if it is, I can't help but think back to the Genisis/32X/Saturn fiasco. This situation is feeling terribly familiar.

It doesn't affect the gaming aspect of it at all. It's more like what SonyEricsson is doing with their Walkman branding of some of the products (ie. phones with more media interface).

EDIT: Didn't think of the PS downloads. Hrrmmm.. Atleast it doesn't affect the PSP games

 

[johns all like]

would it be crazy of sony to take an apple approach and update their product every 2 years instead of apples 6 months and keep adding features at a constant price point? could be kinda cool. hasn't really hurt apple doing it in that approach.

 

[Kroole]

would it be crazy of sony to take an apple approach and update their product every 2 years instead of apples 6 months and keep adding features at a constant price point? could be kinda cool. hasn't really hurt apple doing it in that approach.

Uhmm.. Hasn't Nintendo been getting a lot of flack for improving their handhelds and release them as a second launch?

 

[mrklaw]

it would be crazy to make any downloadable content only for new PSP1.x owners.

First, 4GB pros are out now, with 8GB coming this year apparantly. Second, Sony have already demonstrated DRM protected movies on memory stick.

So the userbase is already there with normal PSPs, and memory prices are dropping rapidly. Its perfectly possible for me to have an 'old' PSP with the same memory as a new fangled one.

I assume they'll shy away from HDD and go flash, as prices have dropped dramatically in the last 12 months making a 4-8GB HDD not worth the trouble IMO

 

[wonderfuldays]

I think it just like this.

PS2 -> PSX (HDD build-in version)
PSP -> PSP 2nd (NAND build-in version)

So PSP will still on the market just like PS2.

 

[jarrod]

I think it just like this.

PS2 -> PSX (HDD build-in version)
PSP -> PSP 2nd (NAND build-in version)

So PSP will still on the market just like PS2.

And PSP 2nd will be forgotten about in 6 months?

 

[Amir0x]

A PSP with a 8GB HDD would be so ****ing ideal. I'd trade in my old PSP for this in a jiff.

 

[jarrod]

The "PSP2" seems like a natural move though, and has basically been rumored since PSP launched. I'm more interested in what this PMP might be though... could it be the rumored/promised dedicated UMD Video player?

 

[Deleted member 1235]

hope this comes true so I can enter threads and claim loudly that people are morons for buying the same shit all over again and then make bullshit statements to back it up.

could it be the rumored/promised dedicated UMD Video player?

are they really that crazy?!

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Hell, I'd buy a PSP2. As long as it had a good d-pad.

 

[Juice]

Uhmm.. Hasn't Nintendo been getting a lot of flack for improving their handhelds and release them as a second launch?

From whom? Everyone loves the Lite. The reasons why are numerous: same price point, better form factor (including brightness), and same game functionality.

What people are worried about is Sony either cutting and running with a new PSP spec or adding a second nub, etc and splintering the functionality of the handhelds. If a new one were to come out that's exactly the same but with 8GB of built-in memory, people wouldn't be so upset about it (aside from over whatever price it comes in at).

 

[Mr. Pointy]

are they really that crazy?!

Sony should have launched a dedicated UMD movie player in the first place.

 

[Kroole]

From whom? Everyone loves the Lite. The reasons why are numerous: same price point, better form factor (including brightness), and same game functionality.

Well yeah the Lite is awesome. I wasn't speaking of the quality of the machine rather the flack Nintendo has gotten from certain people who think Nintendo should have had the DSL ready from the start (ie. not having to buy another DS)

 

[Mmmkay]

What if they made the PSP2 with a modular UMD drive which slots in the back of the unit when you want to load a game? Treating UMD's almost like 'flash carts' (putting a UMD into a housing which affixes to a port on the back of the unit). You could keep it attached because it would be flush with the back of the unit, but also have the option for it to not be there since the game could be installed to the onboard NAND flash. That way you don't have a problem of managing your content if you don't have a PC or run out of space, it could just operate in normal UMD mode. But more importantly, it's external to the unit design so they can make it more compact and clamshelly.

This of course could work exactly the same for a revised PSP1 model.

 

[P90]

Is it too little too late? iPods, DS, and portable DVD players for the market win. Now IF Sony would have had the memory in the beginning and/or went with DVD, I think things would have looking quite rosy for KK and the Crew.

 

[wonderfuldays]

And PSP 2nd will be forgotten about in 6 months?

I don't know, but it will be get higher price than original for sure.
Don't forget Sony really look into APPLE iPOD's price tag.:lol :lol

 

[Juice]

Is it too little too late? iPods, DS, and portable DVD players for the market win. Now IF Sony would have had the memory in the beginning and/or went with DVD, I think things would have looking quite rosy for KK and the Crew.

PSP hardly lacks a market, Sony must be recognizing the need to do whatever it can to keep the PSP (mildly) competitive, as opposed to off in its own little niche world, where it seems to currently be stuck in (in all territories). An update like this could help to accomplish that.

Adding to the pressure is Sony's complete failure to cast the PSP as an iPod competitor, something that will now never happen thank to Microsoft's more capable Argo/Zune/what-have-you.

 

[travisbickle]

Is it too little too late? iPods, DS, and portable DVD players for the market win. Now IF Sony would have had the memory in the beginning and/or went with DVD, I think things would have looking quite rosy for KK and the Crew.

What?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Seems that my decision to wait for PSP until 2007 is good. I had to buy a DS Lite just 8 months later than DS (although trade in helped, and it rocked to have DS for 8 months).

PS->PSOne
PS2->PSTwo
PSP->PSπ? :lol

 

[frAntic_Frog]

sounds like a recycled rumor to me (4-8gb PSP hdd rumor has been circling the internet and forums since the dinosaurs roamed the planet)

and someone suggested sony shoulda used DVD for PSP games? huh? exactly how big and how heavy/hot did you want the PSP to be?!

 

[P90]

What?

THE present video standard. Yeah, it would have made the PSP large, but the success or should I say grisly lack of, for UMD movies shows that people don't want a second video standard. The success of portable DVD players makes the video function of the PSP less desireable to tha average consumer. The PSP cannot hold a candle to an iPod for passive media function out of the box. Nor does the PSP have the streamlined iTunes clone to enhance media acquisition and generate easy $$$. The DS keeps gaining steam and making the sales/market gap between it and the PSP larger and larger and larger and larger. The PSP seems that it is a large niche machine for well-heeled gamers. What isn't there to understand?

 

[P90]

sounds like a recycled rumor to me (4-8gb PSP hdd rumor has been circling the internet and forums since the dinosaurs roamed the planet)

and someone suggested sony shoulda used DVD for PSP games? huh? exactly how big and how heavy/hot did you want the PSP to be?!

It isn't that I would want the PSP to be big, but DVD is the standard in video. The use of UMDs for MOVIES cuts off the PSP from being a market leader in video playback.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

oh yea, i can just imagine there being 12+million portable dvd players already sold, since, like, they are TOTALLY A POPULAR CONSUMER PRODUCT, unlike the "niche" PSP.................................:rolleyes

 

[Jonnyram]

What is suddenly going to happen to the millions of PSPs that they've shipped but haven't sold, if the PSP2 is coming out so soon?

 

[cheekymunky]

It isn't that I would want the PSP to be big, but DVD is the standard in video. The use of UMDs for MOVIES cuts off the PSP from being a market leader in video playback.

And you are absolutely right about this. Sony should have done what Apple did with Itunes. Made it so that you could convert a DVD effortlessly into PSP format (with whatever DRM they needed)....this would have been the more consumer friendly thing to do.
But the IDEA of UMD movies is not a completely bad idea. If it had taken off (namely with Sony releasing anything else that could have read UMD's, or any company for that matter) then UMD movies might have made some headway into the markey. Sony went about it the wrong way by locking UMD down from the beginning.

 

[cheekymunky]

What is suddenly going to happen to the millions of PSPs that they've shipped but haven't sold, if the PSP2 is coming out so soon?

The same thing that happened to the millions of DS phats that Nintendo sold before releasing the Lite (except not in Japan, where finding a phat before that Lite launch was nigh impossible, from what I'm told).

 

[jarrod]

The same thing that happened to the millions of DS phats that Nintendo sold before releasing the Lite (except not in Japan, where finding a phat before that Lite launch was nigh impossible, from what I'm told).

Well going by sales trackers, I'd very much doubt Nintendo had 5-6 million DS sitting in the channel once Lite hit... they learned their lesson the hard way with GameCube.

 

[slidewinder]

I think a few of you may be overreacting.

 

[Eric_S]

As long as as they finally unlock the 333Mhz mode, I don't care what extra features it comes with.

This post was brought to you by, "I'd like to see more 24bit colour mode enabled on the PSP to reduce dithering".

 

[cheekymunky]

Well going by sales trackers, I'd very much doubt Nintendo had 5-6 million DS sitting in the channel once Lite hit... they learned their lesson the hard way with GameCube.

True True. All I meant was that Sony will sell through the PSP's they have in store stock just like Nintendo did with the DS.
I can kind of understand what the concern is about having PSP software that isnt compatible with PSP2 but I highly doubt Sony would fractionalize themselves like that (although companines have done stupid things before).

 

[Nick Laslett]

The local storage is not a problem, it is the lack of an itunes like gameing/movie/music store.

I have a 2gb memory stick, a 1gb memory stick, a 512gb memory stick, a 256mb, memory stick , 2x64mb and 3x32mb. An 8gb flash memory enhancement does very little to get me excited. I will be getting a 4gb this Christmas.

What I lack is a way to get videogame content on my memory stick in a simple way. Sony need to hurry up and let us play games from the memory stick, this solves the load times and improves battery times, it was great doing this with version 1.5 firmware, but now they need to make it official.

Getting music, photes and movies onto the memory stick is pretty straighforward.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

I think a few of you may be overreacting.

to an old rumor, no less :lol

 

[Fewr]

If it does come out I will shake my fist angrily at them because I've got a psp already.

 

[typhonsentra]

I'm glad I held out on buying one now. Anyone wanna make sales predictions for first month sales, assuming it really does launch this year?

 

[jarrod]

I'm glad I held out on buying one now. Anyone wanna make sales predictions for first month sales, assuming it really does launch this year?

It'd depend on pricing and timeframe... say a November launch @ $299.99 or so and I'd think 600k or so would be decent (though it'd be outsold by DSL, PSP1 and possibly GBASP).

 

[jj984jj]

I'm glad I held out on buying one now. Anyone wanna make sales predictions for first month sales, assuming it really does launch this year?

Depends on price.

 

[E-Nature]

probably just a beefed up PSP1 which costs 500$

 

[Shrike_Priest]

There's no way they're upgrading anything but the storage. Which after two years isn't that strange. Just like the PS got PSOne and PS2 got PSTwo, the PSP is getting an enhancement as well.

 

[threeball]

It's pretty much a given that the next PSP will include a touch screen. Ban me for a week if it ain't so.