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999 SPOILERS Discussion Thread

Totakeke

Member
Gunloc said:
I'm pretty positive that Clover isn't in on anything. Also, I don't think any of them are okay with dying. It's my personal belief that the "bad ending" never happen/ed. Akane can see all the different outcomes and orchestrates the one that results in her closing the loop.

The main thing that influences what the outcome is are Junpei's choices. He's always the last one to pick which door to enter and his interactions with the characters are what shape their moods (Clover) and what information is discussed. The only other people that genuinely press for info are Clover and Lotus, the two characters the most removed from the plan.

My argument was never who cared about dying, but whether they knew that they could use a dead user's watch in the beginning. If they knew, a lot of the mysteries like who caused fake Snake's death would be solved much earlier and less shrouded in mystery, no?

And if they knew, then they would just following the whatever the plan was, purposely making dumb choices.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Totakeke said:
My argument was never who cared about dying, but whether they knew that they could use a dead user's watch in the beginning. If they knew, a lot of the mysteries like who caused fake Snake's death would be solved much earlier and less shrouded in mystery, no?

And if they knew, then they would just following the whatever the plan was, purposely making dumb choices.
Well Snake and Clover probably didn't know about being able to use the bracelets. After all, they played the game as kids where no-one died and there would be no way to discover the bracelets work anyway. I'm betting it didn't even occur to Clover until she saw Cap's bracelet.
 

Totakeke

Member
The_Technomancer said:
Well Snake and Clover probably didn't know about being able to use the bracelets. After all, they played the game as kids where no-one died and there would be no way to discover the bracelets work anyway. I'm betting it didn't even occur to Clover until she saw Cap's bracelet.

I agree with that. The only people I would put in the "I don't care if I die" brigade would be Santa, June, and Seven for obvious reasons.
 
Totakeke said:
My argument was never who cared about dying, but whether they knew that they could use a dead user's watch in the beginning. If they knew, a lot of the mysteries like who caused fake Snake's death would be solved much earlier and less shrouded in mystery, no?

And if they knew, then they would just following the whatever the plan was, purposely making dumb choices.
But to initiate the timeline that closes the loop, the discovery of Snake had to happen the way it did. That's what Akane saw.

Aoi and Seven have no reason to challenge the plan, Lotus & Junpei would be the least knowledgeable about how the bracelets work thus I wouldn't expect them to believe anything beyond what they're told (at least in the beginning), while Ace and Clover did take other "players's" bracelets.

Out of everyone not involved in the plan, Ace would be the only one who knew off the bat that you could use other people's bracelets. Yes, Clover had played the game before, but no one died when she played, leaving no opportunity to test the theory. But when Cap's bracelet was there for the taking, she made an assumption and it payed off. I don't find it that odd that her first thought after the 9th Man died wasn't whether or not she should make a play for his bracelet.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I'm still not sure what was going on with Akane's visions. Was she seeing all five timelines simultaneously in roughly 1:1. So when you reach the critical point on the coffin timeline she knows to kind of "short circuit" the timelines and give him the knowledge he needs? And then past Akane doesn't know that Junpei is going to save her life in a short bit, but she's trying to save him and help him out.
And then...it all works out, since he goes forward, solves the incinerator puzzle and boom, happy ending.
 

AniHawk

Member
Gunloc said:
Speaking of June & Santa being siblings, I thought is was really strange when I was initially playing the game that June was joking about Santa's "dead" sister when they were in the boiler room. Seemed totally out of character for her..

How'd this go? I don't remember it.
 
AniHawk said:
How'd this go? I don't remember it.
Something about her being cute as a button/the size of a button. (Or something to that effect.) I'm not sure if Santa had mentioned that she was dead yet, but it was during that conversation. Looking at it now, it's obviously Akane playfully teasing Aoi, but at the time it seems quite insensitive. All in front of Junpei too.
 

AniHawk

Member
also, anyone else think it weird that one of Lotus's daughter was named Nona? Thought they were strongly hinting at something there.

Gunloc said:
Something about her being cute as a button/the size of a button. (Or something to that effect.) I'm not sure if Santa had mentioned that she was dead yet, but it was during that conversation. Looking at it now, it's obviously Akane playfully teasing Aoi, but at the time it seems quite insensitive. All in front of Junpei too.

Right, that. Thanks.
 

tokkun

Member
AniHawk said:
also, anyone else think it weird that one of Lotus's daughter was named Nona? Thought they were strongly hinting at something there.

Nona was the ponytailed girl who escaped with Aoi, Akane, Light, and Seven. As to whether the relation to the latin root for 9 has any significance, I can't really see any.
 

jaxword

Member
tokkun said:
Nona was the ponytailed girl who escaped with Aoi, Akane, Light, and Seven. As to whether the relation to the latin root for 9 has any significance, I can't really see any.

Perhaps if her second daughter were named Rei, it would be more apparent. ;)
 

LiK

Member
The_Technomancer said:
I'm still not sure what was going on with Akane's visions. Was she seeing all five timelines simultaneously in roughly 1:1. So when you reach the critical point on the coffin timeline she knows to kind of "short circuit" the timelines and give him the knowledge he needs? And then past Akane doesn't know that Junpei is going to save her life in a short bit, but she's trying to save him and help him out.
And then...it all works out, since he goes forward, solves the incinerator puzzle and boom, happy ending.
I think it was simultaneous but as a game, we only saw one timeline at a time. Quite cool and made the True ending even cooler.
 

AniHawk

Member
copy/pasted from another thread. just my final thoughts on the game.

The cards were pretty stacked against this game. I just beat Miles Edgeworth within an inch of his life about a week or two ago after 10 months of going back to it, completing some drudgery, and then going back to it a day, a week, or sometimes months later. To say it's a boring game is an understatement. I really dislike it. It lacks the tension of previous Ace Attorney games, and I think the dialog for the series has gone from precious to annoying.

So I was in a bad mood for adventure games, and I wasn't going to get 999 until I saw it was sold out on Amazon and basically everywhere else. And normally, I really dislike stories in video games. They're usually poorly told and poorly written. Either it comes from some designer's fantasy of being a famous movie director or it's the designer's fantasy of being a famous movie director and the translation is bad on top of it.

...But there are some genres I'm okay when it's there. Or at least, I expect to see it. RPGs being one of them, adventure games being the other. It's a once-in-a-while guilty pleasure.

999, in particular, was billed as a visual novel. So I was expecting something like Hotel Dusk, which I thought was all right (mostly thanks to its atmosphere and not its writing). But man, there's more text than I was prepared for. People talking, descriptions of things happening, descriptions of things you're looking at, conversations about things you have. Good lord.

What was surprising was that it was kinda not bad. I think there were too many descriptions of mundane things, but I understand why it was there. The game can't just be crazy exciting thing after crazy exciting thing. Plus, it was nice to see the characters actually investigate their surroundings and exhaust all other options before deciding on heading into the numbered doors.

I think the biggest strength to the writing is that the translation team did a really damn good job. And I'm sure the original writers did a good job too, but there's a lot of stuff that seems to get lost with a Japanese-to-English transition. Words, sayings, cliches... not a lot were present in the dialog itself, which was a big surprise. And whatever awkwardness that might've been there was replaced with believable dialog and developed personalities. Yeah the characters are still cliches, but they're subdued. Swear words are used in appropriated situations for example, and not whenever the writers felt like it. And sometimes, it was subtle- from the true ending: a grown up Junpei asking "what the hell is this?" versus a child-version of Akane asking "what is this?"- showing either/both a difference in age and/or demeanor. The use of italics and elongation also did a good job of conveying emotion and importance to words.

As for the puzzles, I was pretty glad that I actually solved all of them myself, considering they were basically the only game part of the game (except for one, which I had just forgotten that you could actually combine items). I thought they were just about the right challenge too.

Then there were branching paths. In every other game with a branching path, I always tried to make the "right" decision. I'd heard that the game needed two playthroughs to get the true ending, but I thought I could beat the system by making all the right moves the first time through. So I went in door 5, then door 7, and finally door 6. At some point, I had expected Junpei to retrieve the 9th Man's bracelet. The lack of control at these parts was annoying, and getting killed my first time through was a big surprise, especially the lengthy description of a man dying (a side note: the descriptions of gore were really well done, and I'm glad it was only text and not a picture). The second time through, I figured to go through all the options I had not done before. So I went through door 4 and door 3 (more on this later). Considering I had gone through mostly with June, I figured everything would be fine, but I got stabbed by someone (had to've been Ace or Clover in retrospect). The third run, I went through 4, 8, and then 1. For a while there, I thought I was going to get a "Clover ending" and I guess I did, but I was again disappointed in the lack of options to incapacitate her, and that Junpei would just give in to madness. Also, I was pissed off that every option I had tried on my own, thinking that I was doing the right thing had gotten me killed.

And honestly, that's kinda cool too. It's something Heavy Rain dabbled with but never got right. Heavy Rain had very clear good guy and bad guy choices. You had to know certain things to get a bad ending. Removing a sense of morality from decisions (aside from selfishness perhaps) makes the choices you make your own. 999 gets it right.

So I died many times, and that gif of Homer was exactly how I felt: I wanted to go back as Junpei knowing what I knew and kill Clover. So I set it up so I would have had the gun. That never panned out. Again, he got stabbed. So I went back to a previous save. He got stabbed in front of the sub. I went back again: Axe.

The lack of control over replays kinda sucked. I wanted to do things like stop the 9th Man, or at least retrieve his bracelet, save Snake, etc. Eventually, I found the safe ending, and the true ending.

And here's where it gets a little muddled for me: I was honestly enjoying the conspiracy/Saw angle for a bit, but going from "I heard about this telepathy thing once" to it becoming the central point of the game felt like too big a stretch, kinda like 90% of Indigo Prophecy. On the other hand, the plot twist that reveals itself in the last part of the game, that the new game + was actually part of the plot, that my bad choices were part of the plot, was kinda brilliant. Bioshock did something to this effect, where the plot twist was that the player didn't have any control, but that seemed to be an effort excuse that game's linearity/level design (although I think the revelation itself is still pretty cool). 999 doesn't come outright and say it, but the fact that you're supposed to be past-Akane seeing all the possible outcomes is pretty cool.

I have to say, the other thing that was really awesome was just a personal one, but I have never played Sudoku. Well, maybe once, but I never solved one and never cared to learn how. I thought I knew what I was doing at first, and had to go back and re-read the instructions. As I kept going, it suddenly hit me, and I knew exactly what to do and exactly how the puzzle was solved. An epiphany. It's something I doubt happened to a whole lot of other people, but for me, it was a great connection. On a side note, I really enjoyed the consistency of having past-Akane on the bottom-screen and Junpei on the top. One, it makes me wonder if the descriptions were all past-Akane's, two, it solved the problem of being able to use the touch screen while Junpei was on the top one and Akane was on the bottom, and three, it actually used the DS's two screens in a unique way. I don't think I've ever seen them done in that way to help tell a story. That whole segment was the absolute highlight of the game for me.

To wrap it up, I wound up enjoying this a lot more than I expected, even after my first, second, and third playthroughs. I think part of it is that I really appreciate the design of it. There's a consistency there that was really nice in retrospect. Consider Door 3: Junpei grabs June and Seven and makes Santa, Lotus, and Clover fight for the last spot. Santa barely pushes past them and slams his hand down on the RED. Why? Because his watch is 0 (or 9) and June's is 9 (or 0). If it had been Lotus or Clover, it would have fucked up the entire plan, as the wrong numbers on the watches would have been revealed. I came away liking the story and characters, but the design was very strong.

One thing about the story I kicked myself over was Zero's true identity. I had guessed it very early on, simply based on it being the person you least expect and the way she dressed, but the sub ending made it clear to me it wasn't her.

The only thing I didn't like was the Ace at the end of the game. I was cool with him just losing it and threatening to kill people. I was good with him being a fucking bastard. I wish it could have been left at that, but then there's a throwaway line about him just wanting to see other people's faces and it felt like too little too late to make him a sympathetic character.

Overall, a great experience. I don't think I want a sequel, just clarification on some things.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
LiK said:
I think it was simultaneous but as a game, we only saw one timeline at a time. Quite cool and made the True ending even cooler.
It could also have been seen at a much faster speed ahead of time, not necessarily 1:1 simultaneous real-time - as in, Junpei reaches a certain point, Akane quickly looks forward and goes through all the possible alternate paths at that point within a really fast time span, and then guides Junpei appropriately. Repeat as needed when a new spot is reached where new branches could possibly be taken.
 

AniHawk

Member
This game gets darker the more I think about it. The safe ending in particular: Ace burns alive the same exact time 9 years ago Akane does. And then Zero's comments about how they lost.

In the safe ending, would Zero be Santa? I'm sure Santa and Akane could be dressed as Zero for that scene, but Akane disappeared, so... she's probably dead when Zero tells Junpei that they lost.

Akane's a darker character when you start thinking about it too. Kinda throws into question her behavior during the game. Sure she probably really likes Junpei, but it was important that Junpei really cared for her so in a moment of intense danger they could sense each other in their own incinerator rooms. So there had to be some manipulation going on. This all on top of her orchestrating the deaths of the people who ran the Nonary Project.
 

LiK

Member
AniHawk said:
This game gets darker the more I think about it. The safe ending in particular: Ace burns alive the same exact time 9 years ago Akane does. And then Zero's comments about how they lost.

In the safe ending, would Zero be Santa? I'm sure Santa and Akane could be dressed as Zero for that scene, but Akane disappeared, so... she's probably dead when Zero tells Junpei that they lost.

Akane's a darker character when you start thinking about it too. Kinda throws into question her behavior during the game. Sure she probably really likes Junpei, but it was important that Junpei really cared for her so in a moment of intense danger they could sense each other in their own incinerator rooms. So there had to be some manipulation going on. This all on top of her orchestrating the deaths of the people who ran the Nonary Project.

you can say that there's a parallel between Akane/Santa and Ace/the Right-hand man (i forget the name). Santa did everything but Akane was the true mastermind working behind the scenes to get her revenge for what Ace and his partners did to the kids and her. makes her even cooler to me and makes her character more complicated than we think.

i think Akane was still true to Junpei and the way she acted was more in line with how she felt when she was younger with Junpei, her childhood crush/love. but yea, i think no matter how you look at it, she's not that innocent after her traumatic experience. she didn't forgive them nor did she give them any mercy.
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games Dev.
LiK said:
you can say that there's a parallel between Akane/Santa and Ace/the Right-hand man (i forget the name). Santa did everything but Akane was the true mastermind working behind the scenes to get her revenge for what Ace and his partners did to the kids and her. makes her even cooler to me and makes her character more complicated than we think.

i think Akane was still true to Junpei and the way she acted was more in line with how she felt when she was younger with Junpei, her childhood crush/love. but yea, i think no matter how you look at it, she's not that innocent after her traumatic experience. she didn't forgive them nor did she give them any mercy.

Ace's right hand man was Nagisa Nijisaki :)

Also, Akane wasn't that vengeful, she gave Ace and his compatriots a way out by confessing their sins on tape, it just so happened that Ace rejected that act of mercy and killed them.

That might have been a sub-reason for her to make the 2nd Nonary Game, but the main reason was to save her life via Junpei :)
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
AniHawk said:
This game gets darker the more I think about it. The safe ending in particular: Ace burns alive the same exact time 9 years ago Akane does. And then Zero's comments about how they lost.

In the safe ending, would Zero be Santa? I'm sure Santa and Akane could be dressed as Zero for that scene, but Akane disappeared, so... she's probably dead when Zero tells Junpei that they lost.

Akane's a darker character when you start thinking about it too. Kinda throws into question her behavior during the game. Sure she probably really likes Junpei, but it was important that Junpei really cared for her so in a moment of intense danger they could sense each other in their own incinerator rooms. So there had to be some manipulation going on. This all on top of her orchestrating the deaths of the people who ran the Nonary Project.
Yeah, there actually is a lot of stuff going on here. I had forgotten about the "you misunderstand...I lost" line. But....how does that even work? Junpei has failed, which means Akane dies, which means that the voice of Zero there has to be Santa, since Akane is erased from history. But then how would Santa even set up the game....ugh, my head hurts.

Okay...looking at it from a broader perspective. How can June/Akane be alive in any timeline where Junpei fails?
 

Cactus

Banned
AniHawk said:
Akane's a darker character when you start thinking about it too. Kinda throws into question her behavior during the game. Sure she probably really likes Junpei, but it was important that Junpei really cared for her so in a moment of intense danger they could sense each other in their own incinerator rooms. So there had to be some manipulation going on. This all on top of her orchestrating the deaths of the people who ran the Nonary Project.

Wow, I never thought of that. I'm definitely going to pay more attention to her next time I run through the game.
 

LiK

Member
Akselziys said:
Ace's right hand man was Nagisa Nijisaki :)

Also, Akane wasn't that vengeful, she gave Ace and his compatriots a way out by confessing their sins on tape, it just so happened that Ace rejected that act of mercy and killed them.

That might have been a sub-reason for her to make the 2nd Nonary Game, but the main reason was to save her life via Junpei :)

yea, that's true. Santa mentioned that it was to save her, not revenge. altho a friggin' bomb in the intestines means srs bizness.

but i like that none of the other characters really had any bombs in them. they were all safe since the start even if they failed.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Cactus said:
Wow, I never thought of that. I'm definitely going to pay more attention to her next time I run through the game.
I still maintain that Akane was totally trying to get laid in room 4. Seriously, laying it on thick much?
Junpei: "Oh, the bed's a double"
Akane: *blush*
 

LiK

Member
The_Technomancer said:
I still maintain that Akane was totally trying to get laid in room 4. Seriously, laying it on thick much?
"Oh, the bed's a double" *blush*

she's been in love with Junpei since she was a kid. now that she finally reunited with him, she's all backed up with hormones. :D
 

AniHawk

Member
The_Technomancer said:
Okay...looking at it from a broader perspective. How can June/Akane be alive in any timeline where Junpei fails?

Only thing that comes to mind is the timing of the incinerator events. Now that I think about it, Ace probably burns to death a little sooner compared to when past-Akane would. I'm trying to place the timing of when the water is heard moving through the ship, and I think it happens sooner in the safe ending compared to when the incinerator event takes place.

Akane is killed in the Axe ending by Clover, in the sub ending by Ace, in the knife ending again by Ace (just guessing). And then she probably either fades away BTTF-style or dies in the safe ending.

The_Technomancer said:
I still maintain that Akane was totally trying to get laid in room 4. Seriously, laying it on thick much?
Junpei: "Oh, the bed's a double"
Akane: *blush*

Yeah, stuff like this makes me think she was trying to get Junpei to feel a certain way. Pretty much everything in room 4 is like that, and it's pretty much the last time you see her until they investigate the elevators. ...And the elevator scene is the last time they see each other until the end of the game, so there's really only one moment to lay it on thick.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
AniHawk said:
Only thing that comes to mind is the timing of the incinerator events. Now that I think about it, Ace probably burns to death a little sooner compared to when past-Akane would. I'm trying to place the timing of when the water is heard moving through the ship, and I think it happens sooner in the safe ending compared to when the incinerator event takes place.

Akane is killed in the Axe ending by Clover, in the sub ending by Ace, in the knife ending again by Ace (just guessing). And then she probably either fades away BTTF-style or dies in the safe ending.
Yeah, I guess if we go by BttF rules it works. It just seems like in any timeline that Junpei fails in Akane shouldn't be around to play or even set up the game. But then by those time travel rules the entire game basically doesn't work.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
The_Technomancer said:
Okay...looking at it from a broader perspective. How can June/Akane be alive in any timeline where Junpei fails?
Akane would still be alive until the point where Junpei should save her - once he fails, she would fade out of existence. She'd still be alive in those timelines up to those points, it's not like those timelines wouldn't be possible at all. The paradox only kicks in once the failure point is assured and the time loop can't be closed properly.
 

LiK

Member
XiaNaphryz said:
Akane would still be alive until the point where Junpei should save her - once he fails, she would fade out of existence. She'd still be alive in those timelines up to those points, it's not like those timelines wouldn't be possible at all.

yea, paradox is possible. don't ask me specifics, i'm not that good at debating it. :lol
 

Nishastra

Banned
XiaNaphryz said:
Akane would still be alive until the point where Junpei should save her - once he fails, she would fade out of existence. She'd still be alive in those timelines up to those points, it's not like those timelines wouldn't be possible at all. The paradox only kicks in once the failure point is assured and the time loop can't be closed properly.
That's what I find interesting about the safe ending. Junpei doesn't actually die in that one, or if he does we don't see it. He finds the dying Akane, Zero (whoever it is at this point) concedes defeat, and then Junpei falls unconscious and it ends.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Nishastra said:
That's what I find interesting about the safe ending. Junpei doesn't actually die in that one, or if he does we don't see it. He finds the dying Akane, Zero (whoever it is at this point) concedes defeat, and then Junpei falls unconscious and it ends.
For all we know Zero can still be Akane at that point...she might have had enough in her to put on the outfit and whatnot.

Or she could have been transmitting directly to Junpei but through Zero's voice, and Junpei just thinks he sees Zero.
 

Totakeke

Member
Akane doesn't have to be Zero anyway. Zero is a group of people. Otherwise how could they have carried that many people to the setup in Nevada and planned the whole thing? Any of the co-conspirators could be called Zero.
 

AniHawk

Member
jaxword said:
Akane doesn't have to be Zero anyway. Zero is a group of people. Otherwise how could they have carried that many people to the setup in Nevada and planned the whole thing? Any of the co-conspirators could be called Zero.

I guess that's true. It pretty much means it's Akane, Aoi, and Seven. But Akane is the one who had to plan everything out, she knew what to say and how to say it, so she was the one in the mask for at least Junpei.
 

Thoraxes

Member
Before I ask questions, I just wanted to say I beat all 6 endings, and did the true ending last. In response to these actions I can only say, "Holy fuck, this game is awesome."

I guess the only things that confuse me then are the following:

Was that Akane at the end in the desert?

How could Akane participate in the games on the ship at all if she had never made it out in the past? So how can she be in the future if she still died in the past? Or was it the whole she is Zero and it was inside knowledge she lived to Seven, who faked amnesia, Santa, who was in on it, and Snake, who knew that she actually lived? I'm just wondering because if all that was done, and she was alive in the future, why even have Junpei come? How could Akane in the future be alive if Junpei hadn't even been in the Nonary game at the time, and how could she have been alive if he hadn't even made it to incinerator room yet?

If she lived in the past, what was the point of even hosting the game in the future? I understand for revenge, but surely there had to be simpler ways of doing it.

Why/how did she disappear in the incineration chamber at the end? Was it because depending on what Junpei did she would either exist or cease to exist and then the loop would repeat itself if he failed? And if so, why at that point did she disappear, but not earlier?

Pretty much the time paradoxical stuff really confuses me. I think I have a grasp on it, but at the same time i'm not sure.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Thoraxes said:
Before I ask questions, I just wanted to say I beat all 6 endings, and did the true ending last. In response to these actions I can only say, "Holy fuck, this game is awesome."

I guess the only things that confuse me then are the following:

Was that Akane at the end in the desert?

How could Akane participate in the games on the ship at all if she had never made it out in the past? So how can she be in the future if she still died in the past? (1)Or was it the whole she is Zero and it was inside knowledge she lived to Seven, who faked amnesia, Santa, who was in on it, and Snake, who knew that she actually lived?

(2)If she lived in the past, what was the point of even hosting the game in the future? I understand for revenge, but surely there had to be simpler ways of doing it.

(3)Why/how did she disappear in the incineration chamber at the end? Was it because depending on what Junpei did she would either exist or cease to exist and then the loop would repeat itself if he failed? And if so, why at that point did she disappear, but not earlier?

Pretty much the time paradoxical stuff really confuses me. I think I have a grasp on it, but at the same time i'm not sure.

(1) Yes
(2) She had to run the game in the future because if that game was never run then Junpei would never be in the situation where she read his solution from the past, and she would have died. Its a paradox loop thing.
(3)Still not sure on that one myself.
 

kiun

Member
Thoraxes said:
Before I ask questions, I just wanted to say I beat all 6 endings, and did the true ending last. In response to these actions I can only say, "Holy fuck, this game is awesome."

I guess the only things that confuse me then are the following:

Was that Akane at the end in the desert?

How could Akane participate in the games on the ship at all if she had never made it out in the past? So how can she be in the future if she still died in the past? Or was it the whole she is Zero and it was inside knowledge she lived to Seven, who faked amnesia, Santa, who was in on it, and Snake, who knew that she actually lived? I'm just wondering because if all that was done, and she was alive in the future, why even have Junpei come? How could Akane in the future be alive if Junpei hadn't even been in the Nonary game at the time, and how could she have been alive if he hadn't even made it to incinerator room yet?

If she lived in the past, what was the point of even hosting the game in the future? I understand for revenge, but surely there had to be simpler ways of doing it.

Why/how did she disappear in the incineration chamber at the end? Was it because depending on what Junpei did she would either exist or cease to exist and then the loop would repeat itself if he failed? And if so, why at that point did she disappear, but not earlier?

Pretty much the time paradoxical stuff really confuses me. I think I have a grasp on it, but at the same time i'm not sure.

As far as I understood it, Akane never died in the past. And she hosted the game in order to prevent the time paradox (save herself). Also explains why she was getting weaker as they got closer to the incinerator scene.
 

wrowa

Member
Thoraxes said:
How could Akane participate in the games on the ship at all if she had never made it out in the past? So how can she be in the future if she still died in the past?
She survived in the past, because she was saved in the future by Junpei. She never died.

Well, that's just partly true, actually. Remember the times when she got sick? That always happened when you made a wrong decision. A decision that would cause you to trigger another ending than the true one -- an ending where she never survived and thus ceased to exist in the present.

It's all about the time paradox.
 

Belisarius

Neo Member
Re: Akane's paradox, there was article I read in Discover Magazine around the time we were getting started on 999 that talked about some very interesting ideas related to what you could essentially call "reverse causality". Basically, that the future influences the past. I doubt the authors of 999 were referencing this research, since 999 came out in Japan long before this research was released (although this research suggests just such a thing could happen), but it still makes for very interesting reading and provides an almost scientific explanation for Akane's situation.

Here's a excerpt from the beginning of the article:

Tollaksen’s group is looking into the notion that time might flow backward, allowing the future to influence the past. By extension, the universe might have a destiny that reaches back and conspires with the past to bring the present into view. On a cosmic scale, this idea could help explain how life arose in the universe against tremendous odds. On a personal scale, it may make us question whether fate is pulling us forward and whether we have free will.

You can read the rest of the article here. Apologies if someone's posted this somewhere already and I missed it.
 
One thing I don't get is they seem to hint after they get outside that there was never really any danger or have bombs inside of them but the 9th man really blew up right? Unless I just misunderstood that part?
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
One thing I don't get is they seem to hint after they get outside that there was never really any danger or have bombs inside of them but the 9th man really blew up right? Unless I just misunderstood that part?
They only put bombs in the four Cradle guys who ran the first game.
 

tokkun

Member
Tuesday said:
Re: Akane's paradox, there was article I read in Discover Magazine around the time we were getting started on 999 that talked about some very interesting ideas related to what you could essentially call "reverse causality". Basically, that the future influences the past. I doubt the authors of 999 were referencing this research, since 999 came out in Japan long before this research was released (although this research suggests just such a thing could happen), but it still makes for very interesting reading and provides an almost scientific explanation for Akane's situation.

Here's a excerpt from the beginning of the article:



You can read the rest of the article here. Apologies if someone's posted this somewhere already and I missed it.

That's an interesting point, but if it were reverse causality, then it should be impossible for Junpei to fail. The idea of branching parallel universe futures is incompatible with retrocausality.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
tokkun said:
That's an interesting point, but if it were reverse causality, then it should be impossible for Junpei to fail. The idea of branching parallel universe futures is incompatible with retrocausality.
Well that comes back to: are those possible futures that Akane is seeing, or are they actual alternate realities that occur? Are there four real timelines in which Junpei fails? That creates all kinds of issues though, since Akane is alive for most of those timelines, which should be impossible if she dies in the past.
 

Belisarius

Neo Member
tokkun said:
That's an interesting point, but if it were reverse causality, then it should be impossible for Junpei to fail. The idea of branching parallel universe futures is incompatible with retrocausality.

Not necessarily... If Junpei is having an effect on the past, he still needs to do the right things or Akane dies and he fails. And since it has already been extensively documented that the past influences the future, Akane's death would affect him in the "future". It's kind of like one of those paddle-balls with the elastic string: Things just keep bouncing back and forth until Junpei pulls hard enough to break the elastic string.
 
I think the flowing river diagram, where they emphasize that the river only flows one direction (except for Akane) would kind of rule out the reverse causality thing right? she's just sees the various ending possibilities?
 

LiK

Member
Whee, new people in here. The backwards time flow is interesting and I really like how you pointed out that as things go wrong, adult Akane gets sicker. Pretty interesting now that I look back at that.
 
Yeah, I was dying to enter this thread but I had only gotten two endings (Axe and Sub) by the time I first saw it, so the thread really just encouraged me to go through the game again quicker to get all those endings :D
 

LiK

Member
timetokill said:
Yeah, I was dying to enter this thread but I had only gotten two endings (Axe and Sub) by the time I first saw it, so the thread really just encouraged me to go through the game again quicker to get all those endings :D
Yea, Axe and Sub were brutal endings. My first ending was Knife and that was a real WTF ending cuz everything was going well and then bam!
 
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