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[orborborb]

As someone who also loved Destiny 1 but doesn't care about the endgame grind, I was disappointed for a totally different reason, all the stuff you can do solo is pretty dull and easy, both combat and hunting for hidden stuff in the maps. And that's leaving aside that crucible was totally eviscerated. DLC can't save this game unfortunately.

 

[urge26]

Same way people go on and on about Vanilla WoW when in reality, if you played it today, you'd be fucking horrified. Just nostalgia. Launch Destiny was a broken mess full of half-finished mechanics and insane grind. Trolling the moon for helium for 6 hours to level up pants perks can get fucked.

TTK just made D1 less insane and pushed the storytelling from among the worst out there to meh.

We have fond memories of vanilla Destiny not because of the stupid grind that made no sense.... it was a broken game that we kept with, followed up by a brilliant raid that brought us closer, and in my case made a lot of new friends I still game with. Raid weapons were highly sought after, they were OP. It was a great time despite what others want to think.

 

[traveler]

I had a whole series of other points I just wrote out in both the expansion wishes and main thread, but I'll refrain from reposting again as I don't want to hog the convo, but I do want to call this out specifically:

Stop making balance the central focus of the game. Nobody is going to look back in 8 years and say "Destiny 2 was so balanced, it was amazing," but people very well might think back on the rocket launcher that exploded into a wolf-pack of tiny homing rockets and obliterated nearly everything in the game.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Breaking the game is not interesting nor fun- I have thought about and changed my loadout so much more in Destiny 2 than I did in D1 when I had access to Fatebringer and Gjallarhorn. It's not even particularly close. We shouldn't be wishing for the days when we could invalidate content by sitting back and effectively skipping it (old Nightfalls and Icebreaker) or just breezing through it, mechanics be damned. (Gjallarhorn) We should be wishing for interesting content AND interesting guns. You can have powerful weapons without breaking content- not sure why everyone is conflating balance with weak and imbalanced with feeling powerful.

TTK unquestionably improved the overall quality of the game and QoL in general. That said the end game was not without its faults. I liked vanilla Destiny because the raid weapons were great and something that you loved getting your hands on after months of RNG fucking you over.

Leviathan has some great raid weapons too, (Ghost Primus, Sins of the Past especially to me) just nothing on the level of Fatebringer- which effectively stayed glued to one's primary slot from the moment they got it onwards. I think the current power level of raid weapons is pretty good. Adding a unique raid specific perk back on top of them would be cool, but, beyond that, I'm fine with them staying the course on that front.

Edit: Misread. You were more talking about TTK's raid weapons, which were pretty underwhelming yeah.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Ahhh, like Destiny 2 Wardcliff coil?

They way it is currently set up is pretty good because each gun has stats you can modify within a range. Meaning the named guns now have a reason for existing. They my fit your playstyle more. The concept of turning "any" gun into a a gun you can get a god roll on means that you no longer care about weapons or unique skill, you just hope you can get a god roll on the right class of weapon.

Unfortunately, Wardcliff Coil exists in a post-Gjallarhorn world. While I think it would have been cool if they introduced in in Destiny 1 rather than the Gjallarhorn, I think it's just kind of lame.

Although I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the point.

As for perks, I think there's a non-RNG solution but I think Bungie totally missed the mark. Most of the guns are still not great or standout in this game, and most of them are still kind of boring takes on mostly the same archtypes from the last game. There's so much room for them to make cool guns yet they've largely missed the mark (with some exceptions) since Destiny 1's launch.

 

[Kill3r7]

Leviathan has some great raid weapons too, (Ghost Primus, Sins of the Past especially to me) just nothing on the level of Fatebringer- which effectively stayed glued to one's primary slot from the moment they got it onwards. I think the current power level of raid weapons is pretty good. Adding a unique raid specific perk back on top of them would be cool, but, beyond that, I'm fine with them staying the course on that front.

Edit: Misread. You were more talking about TTK's raid weapons, which were pretty underwhelming yeah.

I have most of the weapons from Leviathan, missing the scout rifle, HC and sniper. Although fun they are not at the same level as VoC and Fatebringer.

 

[Ominym]

Stop making balance the central focus of the game. Nobody is going to look back in 8 years and say "Destiny 2 was so balanced, it was amazing," but people very well might think back on the rocket launcher that exploded into a wolf-pack of tiny homing rockets and obliterated nearly everything in the game.

What on Earth? I, and many others, still champion a series Bungie made (Halo) for its superb balance. People routinely praise games for their balance be they current or past, so I think this point is just off-base.

 

[staticneuron]

Unfortunately, Wardcliff Coil exists in a post-Gjallarhorn world. While I think it would have been cool if they introduced in in Destiny 1 rather than the Gjallarhorn, I think it's just kind of lame.

Although I feel like you are intentionally ignoring the point.

As for perks, I think there's a non-RNG solution but I think Bungie totally missed the mark. Most of the guns are still not great or standout in this game, and most of them are still kind of boring takes on mostly the same archtypes from the last game. There's so much room for them to make cool guns yet they've largely missed the mark (with some exceptions) since Destiny 1's launch.

I don't think I am. There are alot of great guns. They are effective and balanced. What there isn't, is overly powerful guns that dominate others in its class. And that is what I feel like I am hearing as a discussion here. There is no suros regime, and imo that is a good thing. We can talk about the pros and cons of origin story, scathelocke, Uriels gift or hard light, without saying one far outstrips the rest. Some are just suited to playstyle and tactics.

 

[Vilam]

The game has serious, fundamental flaws. Problems that are absolutely at the foundational level of the game's design which make me seriously doubt that they have the capability of reshaping Destiny 2 into something I'll consistently play and advocate for like I did Destiny 1. I've been beating this drum since the initial announcement, and the beta really drove the point home. It's nice to see that many others are now coming around regarding the ways in which this game has disappointed.

As a huge Destiny fan - to the tune of nearly 3000 hours - I'm severely disappointed. While Slayerage raises a number of great points, the one that really resonates with me is that balance is never what made Destiny fun. Badass powerful space magic, over the top weaponry, and absolute command of movement around the battlefield is what made the game incredible. I sincerely hope they get back to that for Destiny 3.

 

[NullPointer]

Fixed the story telling you mean.

The April update before TKK fixed a lot of problems the game had, most importantly its reward structure. Did that also introduce infusion? Can't remember.

The way I see it the April update was the real change, not so much TTK proper, though more content was always nice.

 

[soulchilde]

Nope, I have a life and love that I can log on and be at the same level with the same gear as someone that logs 1100 hours into the game. I understand grinding for some folks is fun, but at the end of the day Bungie realized that making the game accessible for the masses and stream lining gameplay would be a benefit for all.


Again, my suggestion is making mods slots the best way to upgrade/ customize your gear. Give rare gear one slot, Legendary gear two slots and Exotics gear three slots. Expand the number of mods and what they can do

Mods should come in Rare, Legendary and Exotic. Exotic mods have three perks, Legendary have two perks and rare mods have one perk. No gear can have more than one Exotic mod attached


Lastly, exotic mods should only drop in Raids, Nightalls and maybe competitive crucible.

 

[everyer]

The weapon system which changed to make the game balanced has ruined the experience.

In destiny 1 we can use both sniper/shotgun and rocket/blade which made me feel sooooo good and I enjoy every moment when I play.

In destiny 2 most of the time we just use kinect/energy weapon shoot and most of the time feels really boring.

I want the weapon system back....

If destiny is an RNG game, what keeps me playing something again and again is not if I have get all I want, it's the feel sooooo good experience that I can use so much different types weapons to enjoy the game.

And that is why when I stop playing destiny 2, I went back to D1, and there are still so many people playing it.

 

[NullPointer]

Nope, I have a life and love that I can log on and be at the same level with the same gear as someone that logs 1100 hours into the game. I understand grinding for some folks is fun, but at the end of the day Bungie realized that making the game accessible for the masses and stream lining gameplay would be a benefit for all.

Well, not all obviously.

 

[NeOak]

I mean, I haven't finished the Campaign on Destiny 2, while I grinded the shit out of Destiny 1 at launch, even farming the loot cave and getting a few legendaries that way.

Playing with friends to find ways to play the strikes faster, the Nightfall pre-nerf, trying to get LL 30.

There is no hook anymore, so it's like "farming D2? ¯\_(&#12484_/¯"

Destiny gameplay wise peaked with House of Wolves. Shit mattered. Everything you had, got, could get, mattered. SHOTGUNS WORKED FOR PVE FFS. The whole game was end-game.

And the whole BS with putting Special weapons as Power weapons now? Fuck off. Now i gotta pew pew everything with my god damn primary. It wasn't even this bad when there was the loss of heavy ammo after death bug.

 

[Iorv3th]

What I can't understand if they are focused on balance, why they don't make the game have dedicated servers for pvp. It ends up being unbalanced because if you have a red bar on your team you are more likely to win. The game favors laggers and it's infuriating.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I summed it up there and I'll sum it up here, Slayerage essentially wants to trade Destiny's action game for an RPG power fantasy. Fuck that noise.

Pretty tired of people of people with hundreds of hours complaining about content just because end game is different. Clear your destinations, collect gear, max it, use mods and exotics to make ideal builds, do milestones, and have fun...or don't. Quit advocating adding more bullshit to the game just because you've exhausted things you fancy.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I don't think I am. There are alot of great guns. They are effective and balanced. What there isn't, is overly powerful guns that dominate others in its class. And that is what I feel like I am hearing as a discussion here. There is no suros regime, and imo that is a good thing. We can talk about the pros and cons of origin story, scathelocke, Uriels gift or hard light, without saying one far outstrips the rest. Some are just suited to playstyle and tactics.

I don't think that's actually the point. Very few weapons are interesting. I'm not saying very few weapons are balanced. I'm saying the vast majority of the weapons I've seen in Destiny 2 are bland. They don't feel "exotic," and I don't mean overpowered by that.

The Gjallarhorn obviously had balance issues but even if it wasn't broken as hell it was still a pretty fucking cool rocket launcher. I don't think that the discussion is "there are no unbalanced weapons" as much as "Most of these weapons are not very interesting mechanically."

I guess I just think they should be more varied and interesting. Bungie has fantastic gunplay in their games, but I think they generally miss the mark when it comes to designing varied enough to fit in an RPG format.

I summed it up there and I'll sum it up here, Slayerage essentially wants to trade Destiny's action game for an RPG power fantasy. Fuck that noise.

Pretty tired of people of people with hundreds of hours complaining about content just because end game is different. Clear your destinations, collect gear, max it, use mods and exotics to make ideal builds, do milestones, and have fun...or don't. Quit advocating adding more bullshit to the game just because you've exhausted things you fancy.

I think part of the problem is that the game presents itself to the player as "one of those power fantasy RPG games." What is the point of adding a treadmill if there is no sense of becoming more powerful at all? At that point, why does the treadmill exist? I'm fine with Bungie making an action game that doesn't fulfill a power fantasy in the same way, they did that with the entire Halo series. I just don't see the point in pulling back their RPG elements to the point where I'm questioning why they even exist.

 

[xplicitone]

Disagree. A lot of his thoughts are based on the 1% of the 1% hardcore.

I'm glad this game is more casual and I can not feel like i missed out on stuff if I don't play everyday.

 

[Alo0oy]

Sorry, not everyone has 6 hours a day to grind for god roll weapons. It seems that the people that have a lot of free time to play Destiny want random perks back because they know not a lot of people have time grind for the best perks, so when they grind for it they feel special.

D2 respects my time more than most GaaS games.

What I will agree on is that power level is a worthless number, if your character can never outlevel content, then that number is pretty useless.

 

[ethomaz]

Sorry, not everyone has 6 hours a day to grind for god roll weapons. It seems that the people that have a lot of free time to play Destiny want random perks back because they know not a lot of people have time grind for the best perks, so when they grind for it they feel special.

D2 respects my time more than most GaaS games.

What I will agree on is that power level is a worthless number, if your character can never outlevel content, then that number is pretty useless.

Nobody is asking for random perks lol

The mod system can be expanded with more slot for weapon perks... you can choose and customize your weapons without the need of random perks... just needs the right mod.

What people is asking is more interesting and unique weapons... even random perks being bad it give unique threat to weapons... the fixed perks Exotics were special and the fixed perks Raid drops were great.

Bungie removed the customization... even the susclasses are the same with only two options for abilities lol

They simplified too much the game.

 

[Exploratory]

I feel like it's a lose-lose situation, though.

They lessened the grind and now people are upset and bored with nothing to do, but if they added more RNG and grinding you'd still have people whining it's the same grind as D1 and they learned nothing.

So what do Destiny fans want, less grinding or tacked on RNG?

I think I'm going to fly off the handle if I see this again.

READ. THE. OP. It's possible to have less grinding AND have meaningful and diverse loot.

Sorry, not everyone has 6 hours a day to grind for god roll weapons. It seems that the people that have a lot of free time to play Destiny want random perks back because they know not a lot of people have time grind for the best perks, so when they grind for it they feel special.

D2 respects my time more than most GaaS games.

What I will agree on is that power level is a worthless number, if your character can never outlevel content, then that number is pretty useless.

I feel like these people are intentionally trolling now...

 

[Strider]

I don't miss the grind... Or at least how the grind was implemented in Destiny 1.

The reason D2 is falling flat for me is the game feels Shallow... To a ridiculous degree.

The rpg systems are so streamlined it makes the gameplay grow stale very quickly. The subclass trees and mod system offer little to no fun or unique build choices. Its not like Destiny 1 was great or even good in this regard either but at least there was a little bit of customization there through subclass perks and armor stats for abilities as well as some exotic synergy with the perks.

On top of that the exotics in D2 are so tame that this weapon and gear that should be "build defining" are just... Not.

There's also a complete lack of any kind of scaling repayable Content or randomly generated content for PvE. I wish theyd come up with more modifiers as well as utilize them more often outside of the Nightfall... Or even just have random modifiers and enemy types in lost sectors or something... Anything really...

I enjoyed the story and a lot of the content but the game just got boring to actually play a lot faster than I thought it would.

 

[T.Slothrop]

I appreciate the more casual turn. I just didn't have time for Destiny 1. They'll figure the endgame out with Destiny 2 in a way that pleases the hardcore. But it'll take time and in terms of looping in a wider audience off the bat I think they've done a terrific job.

I'll buy the first expansion for sure, something I didn't do with the first game. And the joke of all this is the hardcore probably will too.

 

[traveler]

I don't think that's actually the point. Very few weapons are interesting. I'm not saying very few weapons are balanced. I'm saying the vast majority of the weapons I've seen in Destiny 2 are bland. They don't feel "exotic," and I don't mean overpowered by that.

The Gjallarhorn obviously had balance issues but even if it wasn't broken as hell it was still a pretty fucking cool rocket launcher. I don't think that the discussion is "there are no unbalanced weapons" as much as "Most of these weapons are not very interesting mechanically."

I guess I just think they should be more varied and interesting. Bungie has fantastic gunplay in their games, but I think they generally miss the mark when it comes to designing varied enough to fit in an RPG format..

At least in the discord, there has been an explicit call for powerful weapons, with the implication being balanced weapons are boring. I have repeatedly argued for more mechanically interesting exotics and I'm totally onboard with that request, but people have much more frequently asked for Gjallarhorns than mechanically interesting guns.

 

[Conkerkid11]

But the casual audience that they're appealing to won't notice any of this, and unfortunately they seem to care more about the people who will play this off and on rather than those who are in and finished with the raid day 1.

Once again, I wish they were capable of appealing to both the casual and hardcore audiences like most other games are, but they've been given several shots at this, and they've failed every one, so I really have no hope in Destiny ever being as good as most other games in the genre are. I wish some other devs would tackle the FPS lootgrind game, but as of now all we have to look forward to is Borderlands 3... Maybe.

The worst thing is I've been hyping this up for all my PC friends who haven't touched Destiny, but I also recently got them all hooked on Path of Exile, and I really don't see Destiny being appealing to them for more than a week at most, whereas Path of Exile's going to continue to be enjoyable long after Destiny 2's died and Destiny 3's released.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I think I'm going to fly off the handle if I see this again.

READ. THE. OP. It's possible to have less grinding AND have meaningful and diverse loot.



I feel like these people are intentionally trolling now...

I don't think any of the solutions in the OP sound like very elegant or smart revisions though.
Reintroduce re-rolls but allow people to infuse weapons and pick and choose perks? It sounds good for this person but the only people it will serve are the ones currently hoping for more of a 'grind'.

It just seems like an obtuse solution that adds nothing meaningful for the majority of the playerbase.

 

[border]

How crazy is it that they fixed everything that was broken in Destiny 1, and broke so many things that worked well in Destiny 1?

This is pretty much the direction the game has been headed in since Taken King. Balance above all else.....don't make any weapon too exciting or useful or powerful. Perks are almost always "under the hood" type bonuses that wouldn't even be noticeable unless you were looking for them.

It blows my mind that an Exotic perk is now something like "Increases Hand Cannon ready speed and initial accuracy" or "Your gun reloads faster when you are surrounded by enemies".

 

[Kadey]

How crazy is it that they fixed everything that was broken in Destiny 1, and broke so many things that worked well in Destiny 1?

This is pretty much the direction the game has been headed in since Taken King. Balance above all else.....don't make any weapon too exciting or useful or powerful. Perks are almost always "under the hood" type bonuses that wouldn't even be noticeable unless you were looking for them.

It blows my mind that an Exotic perk is now something like "Increases Hand Cannon ready speed and initial accuracy" or "Your gun reloads faster when you are surrounded by enemies".

That sounds like the perfect assessment. They improved on many things but at the same time they took away many things. Based on every fighting game I have ever played and watched in the scene, the most entertaining and fun ones were always the so called unbalanced ones. Destiny went from being it's own thing which was good and just needed minor adjustments to just another COD, etc.

 

[Qblivion]

And on top of this, you now can level to 305 through patrolling and just doing public events.

How is this? I stopped getting more powerful gear at about 270. The only reason I am 280 is clan engrams.

 

[katsais]

Nope, I have a life and love that I can log on and be at the same level with the same gear as someone that logs 1100 hours into the game. I understand grinding for some folks is fun, but at the end of the day Bungie realized that making the game accessible for the masses and stream lining gameplay would be a benefit for all.
.

This cannot be praised enough. This is biggest, and most positive change in D2 IMO. The problem? Bungie psychologically
trained its playerbase to be addicted to gambling mechanics (crucible end match drops, raid drops, 3 of coins, re-rolling weapons, strike drops, factions rank ups, engram decryptions, etc), and now that Bungie has scaled back on these psychological traps...the hardcore playerbase is having withdrawal issues. They are looking for the next fix, and its not there.

Endgame loot needs a rework, but thankfully, Bungie is heading in the right direction.

 

[Exploratory]

I don't think any of the solutions in the OP sound like very elegant or smart revisions though.
Reintroduce re-rolls but allow people to infuse weapons and pick and choose perks? It sounds good for this person but the only people it will serve are the ones currently hoping for more of a 'grind'.

It just seems like an obtuse solution that adds nothing meaningful for the majority of the playerbase.

You don't think its meaningful for guns to have diverse perks? You don't think its meaningful for there to be a reason to even look at a gun you've gotten once before?

I don't care about having a grind. No one is asking for a grind. The point is for not every gun to be the same and to have meaningful loot drops instead of dismantling literally everything you get on a day to day basis.

 

[Conkerkid11]

How is this? I stopped getting more powerful gear at about 270. The only reason I am 280 is clan engrams.

Just keep getting exotics?

 

[almostjuliuscaesar]

everything about this game before it even released just smelled like "stay away this time". and everything after has just confirmed that.

 

[jviggy43]

Casual game for casual audiences are much easier to design around and it's clear bungie wants ease of development since they clearly have a lot of trouble with this franchise. For every step forward it's a step back and destiny 2 took so many steps back to give us minor quality of life improvements that don't make up for the boring encounters, bad weapon system, and lack of meaningful loot or end game content. But obviously that's only mostly felt for the hardcore audience and that's a minority so ultimately they're going to continue streamlining this game for people who play more casually. It sucks they can't manage to do both.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

At least in the discord, there has been an explicit call for powerful weapons, with the implication being balanced weapons are boring. I have repeatedly argued for more mechanically interesting exotics and I'm totally onboard with that request, but people have much more frequently asked for Gjallarhorns than mechanically interesting guns.

The thing is there's always going to be a Gjallarhorn and people are always going to want you to have the optimum loadout in pve.

The issue is that pvp currently has an optimum loadout in a high inpact scout and high fire rate assault. Weapons aren't balanced it's just that there's so few options and such little build variety that everything feels the same.

 

[lt519]

I prefer the fixed rolls but agree on the end game. I see my friends have basically already moved on when a game like D1 held our attention for a long time. The loot is uninteresting and the Raid has that "annoying" feel to it due to all the fast wipes and tight mechanics. I enjoyed the first play through and our triumph but I don't see us even trying Prestige.

The weekly reset was fun for a while but now that I have all the "good" loot I don't see myself logging on to do all the weeklies. If my friends are on I'll jump in, do a nightfall or some crucible, then bounce. I might finish a third character on a rainy day...

I wanted to be lost in Destiny again but it's just not happening this time and stopped happening shortly after Rise of Iron. Which is OK, it's just not that type of game anymore, for better or worse. I'll be back for the DLC and improvements they make though.

everything about this game before it even released just smelled like "stay away this time". and everything after has just confirmed that.

I still find these comments silly though, it's got more than enough content to justify it's price tag and it's a very very fun game up until the level cap. You'll get 60-70 hours out of it easily before you get bored.

 

[Alebelly]

They need a way deeper loot pool. I've got a couple hundred hours in and I've been using the same weapons and gear for 80+% of the time.

I wouldn't mind being able to make more/all stats tweakable through mods, it would be nice to have some sort of unique builds that people theory craft.

But yeah, most people I know dont even bother with strikes or raid in D2, in D1 they were obsessed with that content. Everyone just does a few of the milestones each week and calls it a day.

(And I really dont care for the design of most of the gear and weapons in D2.)

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Balance has taken a lot of the fun out of loot and the crucible without adding anything meaningful.

Kinda saw this coming in Destiny 1. Old guns started getting nerfed and new guns seemed watered down, all for the sake of Crucible balance.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

You don't think its meaningful for guns to have diverse perks? You don't think its meaningful for there to be a reason to even look at a gun you've gotten once before?

I don't care about having a grind. No one is asking for a grind. The point is for not every gun to be the same and to have meaningful loot drops instead of dismantling literally everything you get on a day to day basis.

Grinding for multiple versions of the same gun just to get the right perks which you can then infuse into another gun for optimal stats.....kind of sounds like a grind to me.

 

[Exploratory]

Grinding for multiple versions of the same gun just to get the right perks which you can then infuse into another gun for optimal stats.....kind of sounds like a grind to me.

So you consider having to work toward any goal in a video game a grind?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Nope, I have a life and love that I can log on and be at the same level with the same gear as someone that logs 1100 hours into the game. I understand grinding for some folks is fun, but at the end of the day Bungie realized that making the game accessible for the masses and stream lining gameplay would be a benefit for all.

Not sure why people keep inflating this. We're talking about 50 hours or so before these issues become noticeable, unless you have multiple characters which I assume you don't since you seem so proud of having 'a life'.

D2 respects my time more than most GaaS games.

Except it doesn't. Since it gives you a treadmill with no reason to run on it. In the mid-end game most of your experience with loot will be trashing guns you've had numerous times over, and adding to a level that gives you nothing.

It asks for your time to 'finish' without giving you much as a result of doing so. Past 280 you're not getting anything major in return for the time, and to that extent it's anything but respectful of player investment.

 

[dripdripsplash]

I’m not one to make alts, and I’m not a perfectionists, so when I reached PL 300+ I really didn’t have an incentive to play anymore I feel like.

I felt that I had reached the end of some sorts. Dunno.

I still loved the progression, running around grinding with music on a headset is some of the most relaxing shit ever.

I’m waiting patiently for new DLC

 

[Bold One]

Destiny 2 feels like TTK to me with a less interesting patrol spaces and boring multiplayer.

I literally don't get the argument that people wanted Destiny 1 Year 4 when this game feels like it has less mechanical overhauls than what we got from HoC to TTK on an RPG front. The biggest change is the lack of RNG on weapons and I think it's for the worst. I ended up having the best primary and second primary in the game when I finished it.

The game hasn't improved in any way over where Destiny was after the last expansion.

I can't agree with anything you posted, least of all the bolded part. Too many QoL improvements for me to even consider going back to the D1. The histrionics surrounding Destiny 1 lately in D2 threads IS STAGGERING, SIMPLY STAGGERING.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

So you consider having to work toward any goal in a video game a grind?

No, not really.

I just don't see any sort of meaningful bonus in that proposed system. Maybe I am missing something as I only played the PC beta and am still waiting on the release but from everything I have heard from friends most people are perfectly happy with the current system.

I can agree that adding more diverse perks is a win/win all around. That's a no-brainer.

I just don't see what randomizing those perks and forcing people to grind and acquire multiple versions of loot (w/ the right perks) and then reforging them to create the optimal version of the gun/armor is better than just....giving people the optimal version as the only choice. It's all gonna boil down to one specific roll that everyone wants anyway, right?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I just don't see what randomizing those perks and forcing people to grind and acquire multiple versions of loot (w/ the right perks) and then reforging them to create the optimal version of the gun/armor is better than just....giving people the optimal version as the only choice. It's all gonna boil down to one specific roll that everyone wants anyway, right?

That's perfectly fine, it just needs a loot pool deep enough to justify the removal of random perks. As it stands you don't need to be near the end of the game before you've had most of the weapons with decent perks multiple times over, and the loot experience becomes predominantly breaking down 99% of what you have at a glance, waiting for that one exotic or legendary you may still need.

We're not talking hundreds of hours, it really doesn't take long at all to see the majority of the good loot, and happens far before the end of the treadmill. That kind of stinks in a loot game.

 

[Lucifon]

Not a fan of the sound of a lot of this. You simply can't make a PvE focused game like this for the small percentage which sit there grinding the hell out of multiple characters day in day out. It's impossible to make content fast enough to keep up with that. And you shouldn't destroy the game for the majority of players to chase after catering for that.

I'm done with Destiny 2 right now but I had a blast and will absolutely return for dlc. I finished my time with Destiny 1 feeling like never want to return again. All my friends feel the same, with some more hardcore than others. I do agree a larger loot pool would always be great, but at some point the cap negates that somewhat.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

No, not really.

I just don't see any sort of meaningful bonus in that proposed system. Maybe I am missing something as I only played the PC beta and am still waiting on the release but from everything I have heard from friends most people are perfectly happy with the current system.

I can agree that adding more diverse perks is a win/win all around. That's a no-brainer.

I just don't see what randomizing those perks and forcing people to grind and acquire multiple versions of loot (w/ the right perks) and then reforging them to create the optimal version of the gun/armor is better than just....giving people the optimal version as the only choice. It's all gonna boil down to one specific roll that everyone wants anyway, right?

It's pretty simple, random perks give variety, and variety gives opportunity to work toward something. And what Destiny 2 gives us is not the optimal of each weapon type at all anyway.

And take a look at Diablo, why have different rarities of items? Because progression. And on that note, Bungie has made rarities completely pointless...greens and blues are useless after playing the game for maybe 10 or 15 hours. And then legendary armor is nearly indistinct aesthetics aside.

And once you play the full game, you'll understand why this game loses in the loot department, which is the primary goal for a grindy game that Destiny is trying to be. The problem is that the grind is there but the reward is not and the variety is not. In a sense a game like Diablo is way more repetitive that Destiny, but they got the reward aspect so right that it doesn't matter (it also got progression and synergies right). Destiny's saving grace is that the gameplay loop is great, but that gameplay is surrounded by lackluster content.

Edit: Side note, random item properties don't have to be random per se. If you look at a game like Path of Exile, item types have a set pool of possible properties that they can roll. That way Bungie could avoid you getting ultra shitty gear or ungodly power gear while still allowing for variety.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Not a fan of the sound of a lot of this. You simply can't make a PvE focused game like this for the small percentage which sit there grinding the hell out of multiple characters day in day out. It's impossible to make content fast enough to keep up with that. And you shouldn't destroy the game for the majority of players to chase after catering for that.

Would be cool if you read the thread before posting something that's not being asked for and has been pointed out a few replies up on this page alone. The issues raised are ones that become apparent long before a need to grind "day in day out".

This concept of a game being incapable of being a fun casual experience while offering meaningful end game content is bizarre.

 

[Diprosalic]

of course a streamers wants randomized perks. this gives him something to do for 8h a day and he will have something not everybody has which gives him viewers.

for everyone else it's garbage and we don't want it back. i played 30h+ of this in a month, which is insane and i still have lots to do.

 

[Double Donut]

He's spot on with everything.

Why on earth can you hit max light without ever touching the raid or trials? It just doesn't make sense. You even get handed raid and trials gear just for being in a clan with people who do those activities. What!!

I've never been one to be like "those damn casuals" but seriously, Destiny 2 is way too casual. It's such an overall "easy" game. Destiny 1 felt like an MMO lite, Destiny 2 doesn't feel like an MMO at all. I hate that. I liked having this incredible, mysterious FPS MMO hybrid that I could immerse myself into and grind out stuff. Now I get on and do my nightfall and I'm like... well now what?

Not even a grimoire score or anything, which I can only assume is part of Bungie's attempt to kill off any and all possibilities of toxicity. I guess those "Gjally only" posts on LFG in Year 1 cut way too deep into some people. There is no way to show off or be unique because everything is incredibly accessible. And before anyone goes "wow, that's so vain and immature, you just want something to show off?", you're damn right I do. It's a loot game. I want to show off my loot. But there is no loot to show off because every god damned piece of loot is the same.

Guns are overall weak as hell compared to the glory of D1. Firefly isn't even a perk anymore, what a fucking joke. It is impossible to feel powerful after having played Destiny 1. How is anything supposed to live up to Fatebringer, Black Hammer, and Gjallarhorn? Not to mention these god awful ability cooldowns.

 

[Lothars]

Fixed the story telling you mean.

No he means that it made a big difference in the game, I’ve played destiny 1 since the first day and taken king is where the game became better. Year 1 destiny is looked at with nostalgia and all the flaws are ignored. I liked year 1 but it certainly wasn’t the best destiny.