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[AllIsOneIsNone]

of course a streamers wants randomized perks. this gives him something to do for 8h a day and he will have something not everybody has which gives him viewers.

for everyone else it's garbage and we don't want it back. i played 30h+ of this in a month, which is insane and i still have lots to do.

The key to a quality loot game is that you get what you put into it, no matter how little or how much. His critique is pretty reasonable. Loot games are incredibly hard to get right, I pity Bungie for having to take up the task, especially as a shooter. But that doesn't make the complaints less valid. It's pretty clear the type of game Bungie was going for (originally), and a lot of people think they've missed the mark or lost their way.

I still think Destiny 2 does a lot right. It's like others have said, it fixes a lot of issues with the first, but breaks a lot that was right about the first. I still don't think Bungie know how to make a proper loot game, first and second game. They need to go back to straight up shooters or start their progression system from scratch.

 

[jviggy43]

I can't agree with anything you posted, least of all the bolded part. Too many QoL improvements for me to even consider going back to the D1. The histrionics surrounding Destiny 1 lately in D2 threads IS STAGGERING, SIMPLY STAGGERING.

None of the quality of life improvements are worth neutering the weapon system to the point of making shotguns, fusions, swords, and snipers obsolete from end game content (oh yeah and I guess grenade launchers which are just about one of the most useless weapon classes Ive ever seen in a game). The two primary system makes every encounter considerably worse and more drawn out. That wouldn't be half as bad if the enemies you were fighting were aywhere near interesting to fight against..but theyre the same thing youve fought a thousand times in Destiny 1. SO now its the same, but worse. Give me D1 year 3 every day. Better nightfalls, better strikes, better raids, hell just better PvE in across the board (better class and customization abilities).

 

[almostjuliuscaesar]

I still find these comments silly though, it's got more than enough content to justify it's price tag and it's a very very fun game up until the level cap. You'll get 60-70 hours out of it easily before you get bored.

it's not silly. i played D1 for hundreds of hours and im not doing it again for no reason. i didn't know what to expect then because it was a new experience. i know what to expect form bungie now, and they are proving my expectations right.

 

[SPCTRE]

Bungie sells/markets Destiny as a loot based game.

Destiny I honestly feel was never a "good" loot game (I would consider Diablo, Borderlands to fall into that group), but it was certainly a better loot game than D2 is now - i.e. more interesting and/or exciting loot.

 

[panda-zebra]

You know what? Smashing the very same public events over and over and over to be showered in exotic engrams was only slightly more interactive/fun than this beyond the first few hours. But that's the game they made and that was the way to get good stuff most efficiently - working as intended as Deej would have said - not even the glitch/exploit the loot cave was.

And then running 'round in the tower to see every Warlock, Titan and Hunter kitted out in exactly the same few exotics worth bothering with, only with different colours thanks to consumables people spent on them. At this point in D1 I was still checking out characters in the tower in awe as "wow, that guy has xyz, check out his character!". Exotics drop like legendaries used to in this game, there needs to be a new tier of actually fun/crazy/hard as fuck to obtain stuff that you can work on to make better, then the game might be worth firing up again beyond week 3.

 

[Calabi]

The one thing that confuses me about this is how did Bungie not understand why people were playing the game.

I didn't play the game but I knew why people were playing it. I've heard from a lot of people and streamers that their not as interested in playing Destiny 2 as much. How does Bungie mess it up this bad. First you hear about them messing up the development of Destiny 1 and problems all throughout. Now they cant even make a sequel that people want to play as much as the first.

It seems like they are really lucky their doing as well as they are.

 

[XAL]

I'm glad that Bungie got rid of purely random rolls on weapons and gear. It made for a haves and have nots situation where the RNGness of it was fucking unbearable.

But the mod system is not nearly good enough to fill the grind gap.

Weapons and armor should have had upgrade trees with slots for mods for damage type, etc that you can switch between. That way you fulfill the promise that your guns and armor are yours and they grow with you.

A lot of design choices come off as lazy and half-baked.

Bungie didn't learn anything from the best improvements made to D1.

Even the fucking character creator is essentially identical to D1, can't even fucking rotate the character. Like, what a fucking joke.

 

[Rexatality]

Sorry, not everyone has 6 hours a day to grind for god roll weapons. It seems that the people that have a lot of free time to play Destiny want random perks back because they know not a lot of people have time grind for the best perks, so when they grind for it they feel special.

D2 respects my time more than most GaaS games.

What I will agree on is that power level is a worthless number, if your character can never outlevel content, then that number is pretty useless.

ITS NOT EVEN ABOUT THE 1%. ITS NOT A HARDCORE VS CASUAL THING.

ITS ABOUT MAKING THE ENDGAME MORE FUN AND MORE VARIETY, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

 

[ethomaz]

No he means that it made a big difference in the game, I’ve played destiny 1 since the first day and taken king is where the game became better. Year 1 destiny is looked at with nostalgia and all the flaws are ignored. I liked year 1 but it certainly wasn’t the best destiny.

This guy explained better...

How crazy is it that they fixed everything that was broken in Destiny 1, and broke so many things that worked well in Destiny 1?

This is pretty much the direction the game has been headed in since Taken King. Balance above all else.....don't make any weapon too exciting or useful or powerful. Perks are almost always "under the hood" type bonuses that wouldn't even be noticeable unless you were looking for them.

It blows my mind that an Exotic perk is now something like "Increases Hand Cannon ready speed and initial accuracy" or "Your gun reloads faster when you are surrounded by enemies".

Destiny really took this direction after TTK breaking the strong points of Destiny while fixing some others.

Overall it moved to worst in my opinion.

It was enjoyable even with it flaws but now it becoming boring and that is exactly what the OP is trying to say.

 

[robo]

I miss year 1 destiny. For me its still the best.

Getting fatebringer, vex et al was the best times.

Knowing you had done what needed to be done to get the drops, so what if they were overpowered, if you u wanted one you knew what you had to do to get them.

Getting vex to drop at the end of vog and screaming at your buds down the mic, yeah not done that in d2 at all. Hell the engram goes straight to your inventory now

I like overpowered stuff, most of the weapons in d2 are just straight shard fodder, which defeats the object of the loot pool for me.

Balance has ruined what made destiny 1 great imho.

 

[KageMaru]

The more I read and hear about Destiny 2, the more I'm happy I didn't purchase and invest in the game.

I don't know exactly where things went wrong with Bungie, but I'm still bothered that the studio is in the state it's in.

 

[Vince DiCola]

If they can improve the mod system to let us actually customise our legendary weapons and armour a bit more, I'd like that.

Let us add some perks to our weapons, they don't have to be OP perks either, but adding outlaw to a hand cannon of my choosing would be neat.

Also, some perks are really bad right now, Dragonfly is worthless and a pale shadow of it's D1 counterpart, Firefly.

I'm still enjoying D2 a lot, I still play most nights but I feel like Bungie sacrificed some of the crazy fun of D1 in the name of balance and accessibility.

I'm not sure that I'd be super happy to get 100% random weapon rolls back and reforging had it's problems too but the mod system is so barebones at the moment that I would start with that.

 

[Vince DiCola]

None of the quality of life improvements are worth neutering the weapon system to the point of making shotguns, fusions, swords, and snipers obsolete from end game content (oh yeah and I guess grenade launchers which are just about one of the most useless weapon classes Ive ever seen in a game). The two primary system makes every encounter considerably worse and more drawn out. That wouldn't be half as bad if the enemies you were fighting were aywhere near interesting to fight against..but theyre the same thing youve fought a thousand times in Destiny 1. SO now its the same, but worse. Give me D1 year 3 every day. Better nightfalls, better strikes, better raids, hell just better PvE in across the board (better class and customization abilities).

Shotguns, swords, snipers and fusions are all useful in the raid. I run shotgun at Baths, sword for Dogs and sniper at Calus. Fusion for everything else

 

[suddenlyissoon]

I like that normal players can get to max light by just playing normal events. Being a working married adult older than most, I never got to experience some of the D1 events (like raids or trials) and basically left the last expansion untouched because of it. Last night I hit 301 through iron banner (299 to 301) through the hour I got to play before my wife got home.

Gear is still elusive and a grind. I'd love to have a more powerful auto rifle or sweet business but I haven't gotten close yet. It will keep me coming back.

 

[Varg]

People with hundreds of hours already in the damn game bitching and moaning . Doesn’t make any sense at all. If the game got you for those many hours I think it did it’s damn job. Expansions are coming have some patience .

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

People with hundreds of hours already in the damn game bitching and moaning . Doesn't make any sense at all. If the game got you for those many hours I think it did it's damn job. Expansions are coming have some patience .

The issues discussed are noticeable at ~50hrs if you run one character, and are valid issues with the game. Perhaps actually discuss them on their merits instead of disregarding them purely because of someone's hour count. What doesn't make sense is just dismissing a well written, calm and considered critique of the game as "bitching and moaning".

 

[GlamFM]

Cross-posting from the other thread because LOOT CAVE!

-

...but it´s also (unfortunately) a pretty direct continuation of the road they were on since TTK.

Equalize EVERYTHING. Take the edge of EVERYTHING.

3oC, Infusion - nothing matters, everything is flat.


For me personally Bungie keeps drawing the wrong conclusions.

The loot-cave wasn´t a thing because the game "was not rewarding enough", it was a thing because people were "hungry".

The hunger is the driving force here - That´s the part Bungie should focus on.

(BAD?) ANALOGY TIME!

I don´t have a better time fishing if I drive up to a lake in the morning and someone hands me the fish.

Sitting there for 6hrs in anticipation is the actual fishing experience - so much so that some fishers trow the fish back into the lake after catching it.

 

[panda-zebra]

People with hundreds of hours already in the damn game bitching and moaning . Doesn’t make any sense at all. If the game got you for those many hours I think it did it’s damn job. Expansions are coming have some patience .

Have some damn patience?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

As someone that doesn't raid since my job prevents me from running with my squad I'm glad there's still a means for me to progress.

Problem to me is the same Ole thing. We consume content faster than they can pump it out.

 

[Kamina]

Destiny 2014 AD
Never forget

 

[jimboton]

If you've played Destiny 2 for some time now I think it would be pretty hard not to agree on pretty much every point made in the OP.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Slayer represents the 1% of the 1%.

I'm a hardcore Destiny player with over 2500+ hours in D1. I can easily see myself dumping the same into D2. It's a great game.

No more annoying grind. No more FOMO. No more chasing random rolls to stay competative.

I come to Destiny for the awesome gunplay and DGAF community. The endless carrot on a stick was never interesting or fun to me.

D2 is perfect.

Why on earth can you hit max light without ever touching the raid or trials? It just doesn't make sense.

Why should someone have to play content they don't want to play just to advance in the game. If someone wants to just grind PEs what's wrong with that? It lets players decide how they advance instead of being forever 29 like Vanilla VOG.

 

[hank_tree]

Slayer represents the 1% of the 1%.

I'm a hardcore Destiny player with over 2500+ hours in D1. I can easily see myself dumping the same into D2. It's a great game.

No more annoying grind. No more FOMO. No more chasing random rolls to stay competative.

I come to Destiny for the awesome gunplay and DGAF community. The endless carrot on a stick was never interesting or fun to me.

D2 is perfect.

You are gonna have a lot less people to play with.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

You are gonna have a lot less people to play with.

Everyone in my clan still plays daily and we're all over a few hundred hours already. So, ok?

Edit: If people want to not play Destiny that's fine. There's more content right around the corner in December.

 

[Marcel]

Shocking news: Streamer who plays games as a job wants game to feel like a job.

 

[GlamFM]

Everyone in my clan still plays daily and we're all over a few hundred hours already. So, ok?

Edit: If people want to not play Destiny that's fine. There's more content right around the corner in December.

People are not complaining about the amount of content.

They are complaining about the lack of reasons to engage with it.

Shocking news: Streamer who plays games as a job wants game to feel like a job.

You should read through the thread. The issues he has are not exclusive to his situation. The perception is pretty wide spread.

 

[gatti-man]

ITS NOT EVEN ABOUT THE 1%. ITS NOT A HARDCORE VS CASUAL THING.

ITS ABOUT MAKING THE ENDGAME MORE FUN AND MORE VARIETY, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

Casuals can't see what you're talking about. For them Bungie taking something away from the hardcore is a boon to the casuals and they are right. The problem here is Bungie took away a major hardcore element and replaced it with zero. So now the casuals have a destiny that cares about their time, levels the playing field and offers new casual content. The hardcore have a trivialized raid with zero exclusive/must have loot, no reason to grind bc all loot is standard and drops easily, power lvl is trivialized in all modes, pvp is more about group shot than having the right rolls on weapons, it's just not a good hardcore game atm.

It just feels like Bungie listened to the casual audience and forgot about the hardcore, or didn't realize if you take away a major gameplay loop you should probably replace it with something else.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Casuals can’t see what you’re talking about. For them Bungie taking something away from the hardcore is a boon to the casuals and they are right. The problem here is Bungie took away a major hardcore element and replaced it with zero. So now the casuals have a destiny that cares about their time, levels the playing field and offers new casual content. The hardcore have a trivialized raid with zero exclusive/must have loot, no reason to grind bc all loot is standard and drops easily, power lvl is trivialized in all modes, pvp is more about group shot than having the right rolls on weapons, it’s just not a good hardcore game atm.

They probably dont think it will be an issue since Casual vs Hardcore is a sliding scale

So by the time the bulk of the players have reached the end of their leash the next expansion will already be here

I feel like this is their strategy for the time being

We don't have proper perspective cuz we haven't had a long enough time with Destiny 2

Our perception of time is skewed right now mostly because of the Design change.

Even though D1 had longer gaps between content it had stuff to chase and grind for

 

[gatti-man]

They probably dont think it will be an issue since Casual vs Hardcore is a sliding scale

So by the time the bulk of the players have reached the end of their leash the next expansion will already be here

I feel like this is their strategy for the time being

We don't have proper perspective cuz we haven't had a long enough time with Destiny 2

Our perception of time is skewed right now mostly because of the Design change.

Even though D1 had longer gaps between content it had stuff to chase and grind for

The dark below came out pretty quick after launch.

Vanilla D1 had fatebringer, mythoclast, and an insanely good scout whose name escaped me only in the raid. The raid gear also had special perks and looked amazing.

This is all totally missing in D2.

This is my opinion:
I seem to recall exotics dropping far less often. Also exotics were actually exotic in their mods. The ghosts and grimiore score gave me something to do. Getting all the ghosts was actually one of the really cool things I did in D1.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

People are not complaining about the amount of content.

They are complaining about the lack of reasons to engage with it.

It's a matter of opinion then. I have plenty of reasons to keep engaging with the content.

I want all the new IB armor. I'm still missing the flawless Trials set for all my toons. I'm also building separate PvE and PvP armor builds. I love Trials Countdown so I will always play that.

 

[GlamFM]

The dark below came out pretty quick after launch.

Vanilla D1 had fatebringer, mythoclast, and an insanely good scout whose name escaped me only in the raid. The raid gear also had special perks and looked amazing.

This is all totally missing in D2.

VISION OF CONFLUENCE

<3

 

[Marcel]

You should read through the thread. The issues he has are not exclusive to his situation. The perception is pretty wide spread.

Destiny 2 attracted a lot of positive attention with the "Destiny without the bullshit" review tagline. Adding some bullshit back in seems like a nice way of cutting yourself off at the knees to satisfy the Destiny 1 no lifers who would grind the same content over and over again for a rocket launcher and who are probably playing D2 anyway, the same way pro wrestling fans moan to high heaven about the quality of programming but still watch anyway.

 

[gatti-man]

VISION OF CONFLUENCE

<3

Lol that’s it. Yeah the raid needs a reason to exist especially when it’s so sub par. Vault of glass blew my mind, leviathan blows my ass.

 

[GlamFM]

Destiny 2 attracted a lot of positive attention with the "Destiny without the bullshit" review tagline. Adding some bullshit back in seems like a nice way of cutting yourself off at the knees to satisfy the Destiny 1 no lifers who would grind the same content over and over again for a rocket launcher and who are probably playing D2 anyway, the same way pro wrestling fans moan to high heaven about the quality of programming but still watch anyway.

You can fuck right off with that "no lifers" bullshit.

 

[Marcel]

You can fuck right off with that "no lifers" bullshit.

Nerve struck, lol. So I'm guessing, what, 500+ hours in D1 for you? More?

 

[Ryuuga]

The dark below came out pretty quick after launch.

Vanilla D1 had fatebringer, mythoclast, and an insanely good scout whose name escaped me only in the raid. The raid gear also had special perks and looked amazing.

This is all totally missing in D2.

This is my opinion:
I seem to recall exotics dropping far less often. Also exotics were actually exotic in their mods. The ghosts and grimiore score gave me something to do. Getting all the ghosts was actually one of the really cool things I did in D1.

Yeah getting exotics meant something because the legendary weapons were already amazing as is. Somewhere along the way the entire arsenal became diluted to the point where 90% of the arsenal (common to exotics) felt weaker than D1 Y1 legendaries.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Nerve struck, lol. So I'm guessing, what, 500+ hours in D1 for you? More?

I mean, it's entirely possible for somebody to love a specific game, play it a lot, and still have time to do other things like have a full time job and a social life.

It's just kind of patronizing phrasing, which is just not very useful in the context of discussion.

 

[DrROBschiz]

The dark below came out pretty quick after launch.

Vanilla D1 had fatebringer, mythoclast, and an insanely good scout whose name escaped me only in the raid. The raid gear also had special perks and looked amazing.

This is all totally missing in D2.

This is my opinion:
I seem to recall exotics dropping far less often. Also exotics were actually exotic in their mods. The ghosts and grimiore score gave me something to do. Getting all the ghosts was actually one of the really cool things I did in D1.

I totally Agree that D1 was more designed towards grinding out things at the end

But man people shat on that too last I checked

D2 is certainly different and I dont think its bad but it certainly just ... "ends"

I think instead of jumping from D1's extreme to D2's extreme they should try to achieve the balance that we had at End of Life D1

Yeah I know.. thats not an original thought but they need to make D2 slide more towards a Hybrid approach. The 100% casual swing is fine and the game is still fun but I would like more unique things to chase and there is just so many gaps that were being filled in cool ways

Gimme something closer to Taken King and RoI. Hell Ill even take House of Wolves level updates.

We will get there with content but whether that content will be replayable in the long run.... i dunno

 

[TyrantII]

People with hundreds of hours already in the damn game bitching and moaning . Doesn’t make any sense at all. If the game got you for those many hours I think it did it’s damn job. Expansions are coming have some patience .

People that don't read the OP, or bother to understand the argument, bitching and moaning about other people.

 

[Marcel]

I mean, it's entirely possible for somebody to love a specific game, play it a lot, and still have time to do other things like have a full time job and a social life.

It's just kind of patronizing phrasing, which is just not very useful in the context of discussion.

I stated my opinion before the "no lifers" line. Bungie would be cutting itself off at the knees to please a vocal minority of players. If there is a compromise to be found here is to offer both an OPTIONAL vertical gear climb with no lifer god rolls while also maintaining the current system for the large amount of casual players they picked up with Destiny 2.

 

[Darryl M R]

I do.

I also want random rolls to return on everything like we had before concerning random drops when playing the game. Raid/Trials weapons should always have fixed perks. Raid/Trials armor should have fixed perks that elevate the gameplay in those modes of play.

I also want every player to be able to go to the vendors and buy what they want/need from the base loot pool (fixed rolls/perks) with Legendary Shards as we have been able to in the past.

I also want the vendors to have weekly rotating static-perk (fixed rolls/perks but changed weekly for variety sake) armor/weapons that every player can purchase with Legendary Shards just as we have been able to in the past.

I also want Clan rewards to go away.

Edit: Main point being there is no reason all of this cannot co-exist thus making every kind of player happy in the long run.

I still don't want RNG perks because I'm not trying to grind to get a low percent drop with the worst possible rolls.

More weapons with unique perks sounds like a compromise.

And there is no reason for clan rewards to go away.

 

[TyrantII]

Nerve struck, lol. So I'm guessing, what, 500+ hours in D1 for you? More?

Stop being a dick.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I stated my opinion before the "no lifers" line. Bungie would be cutting itself off at the knees to please a vocal minority of players. If there is a compromise to be found here is to offer both an OPTIONAL vertical gear climb with no lifer god rolls while also maintaining the current system for the large amount of casual players they picked up with Destiny 2.

I said nothing about your opinion. I responded because I think you are unreasonably generalizing a group of people that might care about different things in a video game compared to you.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

I stated my opinion before the "no lifers" line. Bungie would be cutting itself off at the knees to please a vocal minority of players. If there is a compromise to be found here is to offer both an OPTIONAL vertical gear climb with no lifer god rolls while also maintaining the current system for the large amount of casual players they picked up with Destiny 2.

I mean, this "vocal minority" as you put it are the fans that supported D1 for 3 years. But yeah, totally shouldn't support them right? Screw the fans! We want to please the people that hated Destiny!

And your obsession with this "no lifer" stuff is odd... but whatever makes you feel superior i guess?

 

[gatti-man]

I totally Agree that D1 was more designed towards grinding out things at the end

But man people shat on that too last I checked

D2 is certainly different and I dont think its bad but it certainly just ... "ends"

I think instead of jumping from D1's extreme to D2's extreme they should try to achieve the balance that we had at End of Life D1

Yeah I know.. thats not an original thought but they need to make D2 slide more towards a Hybrid approach. The 100% casual swing is fine and the game is still fun but I would like more unique things to chase and there is just so many gaps that were being filled in cool ways

Gimme something closer to Taken King and RoI. Hell Ill even take House of Wolves level updates.

We will get there with content but whether that content will be replayable in the long run.... i dunno

I think different groups are complaining. I agree that D2 needs more of something. I think it’s just more loops. Everything seems oriented to take less time which is cool until it takes away depth.

 

[nOoblet16]

People with hundreds of hours already in the damn game bitching and moaning . Doesn’t make any sense at all. If the game got you for those many hours I think it did it’s damn job. Expansions are coming have some patience .

I wrote this in the very first page.

[.....]

But people who disagreed with me told me "But you put 100 hours into the game, that means you got value out of your purchase". That is missing the point that I did not buy Destiny 2 to get 100 hours, I expected double or even triple of that out of the base game after playing Destiny 1 + expansions for 1000+ hours.

You are missing the point of the discussion, the problem affects everyone and if you just take time to read through and understand what people are trying to say then maybe you'll get it.

 

[Exploratory]

ITS NOT EVEN ABOUT THE 1%. ITS NOT A HARDCORE VS CASUAL THING.

ITS ABOUT MAKING THE ENDGAME MORE FUN AND MORE VARIETY, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

These people can't be spoken to I'm serious.

 

[gatti-man]

Atleast Bungie was smart enough to have weekly events because of it wasn’t for the events I’d be done with d2 something I didn’t do with D1 it’s entire first year.

 

[sinkfla87]

Nerve struck, lol. So I'm guessing, what, 500+ hours in D1 for you? More?

"Haha this guy obviously spent 500+ hours in D1, amirite? My 500+ hours being a dick to people on an internet forum is clearly more valuable."

 

[Niceguydan8]

"Haha this guy obviously spent 500+ hours in D1, amirite? My 500+ hours being a dick to people on an internet forum is clearly more valuable."

You know a point of view is pretty weak when the rebuttal basically boils down to "umad?"