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A polite discourse amongst friends on the importance of MP-elements in No Man's Sky
- Thread starter flkraven
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Vincent Grayson
Member
He doesn't even say yes so much as laugh and say "A little bit". Who knows what the fuck that even means.
"Can you play with friends?" - "yes"
"incredibly rare", "lobbies", "see other players", "cooperation" etc etc.
That's the big problem: the vague language all the time. The dude can't be bothered to simply say "no" even when it would've been the right thing to do many times.
The difference here, and it's obviously subjective as to why you're playing the game, is that nobody questioned Destiny's gunplay. Same thing with SFV, or as I mentioned earlier, Dirt Rally when it was in early access. Everything was solid on the gameplay front, you just ran out of things to do really quick. Here it appears (particularly everything presented from the FIGHT pillar) is underwhelming and not all that fun. So they kind of have the opposite problem of Destiny, plenty of varied places to do things, just gameplay that doesn't hold up to other games in the genre (be it survival or FPS).
Really hoping the modding tools break this wide open. Game could actually turn into the messiah game that did everything if modders can get in there and really do work. Who cares if the dev team is only 11 people. If you open it up to the community, you create a exponentially larger set of devs with an equal (or greater, since they're doing it for free) amount of passion with new ideas and hopes for the game.
Seriously? I mean, at what point does the consumer's responsibility end? That interview had him flat out asked if you could play with friends, and he said yes. It's one of the few questions he's answered without some weird caveat. I'm just asking because I'm curious as to how much a consumer has to research a game before they buy and before they're able to critique what the game was "really" about? Do they have to see EVERY interview, do they have to read EVERY tweet, do they have to watch EVERY first look from every outlet? There were mixed messages out there along with a lot of ambiguous statements and that's the fault of the dev.
For those not old, by the way, what happened here is tiny compared to many other games over the years. Destiny showed entire planets and cities not in the game before launch, and talked about many features which still aren't in the game.
Elder Scrolls Oblivion from Bethesda in 2005 is probably my best example. Here's one quick video, lots of things they presented at E3 before launch never made it into the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9X58n7qA1Y
There's a load more videos for Oblivion on YouTube. They talked about features which never appeared and they showed an entire town which is just not in the game etc. Lots of graphical things didn't ever appear, the game looked very different in the E3 presentation.
Elder Scrolls Oblivion from Bethesda in 2005 is probably my best example. Here's one quick video, lots of things they presented at E3 before launch never made it into the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9X58n7qA1Y
There's a load more videos for Oblivion on YouTube. They talked about features which never appeared and they showed an entire town which is just not in the game etc. Lots of graphical things didn't ever appear, the game looked very different in the E3 presentation.
ClosingADoor
Member
So?
Doesn't make the NMS thing one bit better.
But props for the downplay attempt I guess.
And for that we had threads on GAF.
Full of people annoyed at being lied to and full of fanboys for the game trying their best to convince others that simple statements actually didn't mean what they purport to mean using top ten theology tricks.
Counter balance - the No Man's Sky website specifically says you *cannot* PVP multiplayer, Sean tweeted it is not a multiplayer game, the game box says single player, the Steam listing is single player.
What they screwed up is the occassional interview. When they said "yes" to multiplayer, Sean should have said EXACTLY what they had implemented and working. Not yes to a roadmap. People can hold on all they like to the occasional interview, but reality: it is not a PVP multiplayer game. The only time they used the words "PVP multiplayer" is on their website, where they say the game IS NOT that. So it isn't that by design. And yes, Sean fluffed the messaging and probably sold Sony and themselves some more copies.
Audioboxer
Member
All that really proves is many developers do this and it's precisely the reason why gamers giving it a pass or defending it is scoffed at by many GAFers.
Yes we all know cuts can happen, and plans can change, but the best devs are open and honest about this during development and don't wait until a month after release after they've already made their money to open up about development.
Its gamers acting like company PR which gives the devs/publishers the confidence to put out gold copies of games they're effectively lying about. Lying because they damn well know gamers are expecting something they've said is in the game prerelease but they now know isn't anymore.
We are not far off from saying that we 'can play with your friends' in every single player game with say, a score system where you could compare your result.
I can only imagine a racing game where the dev would say you can play with your friends, only to discover after the release that he meant that you can compare your track times with them.
I agree. And I posted that comment. But that is the industry, and people buy the games, and the world(s) keep turning. If in doubt, do not preorder - make an informed choice on what the developer delivers. It is not a surprise to see a 12 company tiny indie developer didn't meet all expectations they set.
Audioboxer
Member
Nor I, and that is a little bit of why I waited. Size doesn't come into play with honesty though and for as much as Sean wanted to pimp the game before release, he should have strictly been conveying facts and discussing any changes along the way.
You're asking people to spend their hard earned money on your game and like any product or service sold people expect and appreciate full disclosure and honesty.
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
I've yet to boot up the game and have it NOT say "You've lost connection to the online servers." Are those even working right now?
Things don't change because players keep swallowing this shit. Because there is always an irrational defense force comprised of fanboys who actually work against the best interest of consumers by defending their current favorite developer against anything. Time to self-reflect!
Was just about to say something
It's ok to be unable to meet expectations, it's not ok to not mention you didn't meet your expectations when you're selling a product to a customer.
People keep repeating the "poor indie developers" angle but they're still a company trying to sell us a product.
The only thing I wanted from the MP of this game was to know what my character looked like. In my mind I imagined the whole idea was that every player gets a unique model, but you can't see yourself, so you meet someone randomly, you take a screenshot of them and they do the same for you, would've been hella cool.
Vincent Grayson
Member
It's kind of amazing to me that the "never preorder!" mantra so directly conflicts with the hubbub over this game, but it feels like the same crowd championing both.
If you don't preorder, and just read reviews and impressions of a game once it's out, you'll know exactly what you're getting and can make your purchase accordingly.
The average person who picks up NMS in a store won't know jack shit about this controversy, and won't be impacted by it, because the game will simply be what reviews have told them it is, and the box and/or storefronts selling it make its single player focus abundantly clear.
That product is being sold as a single player game, so I guess there's no problem, right?
OuterLimits
Member
Finally received my copy, played a few hours last night and I'm loving it.
Sincerely sorry for those who were expecting to be able to meet players or have some kind of MMO experience. I personally never even considered meeting other players after being told it was almost impossible statistically (so it was clearly not an important function of the game), so I'm not disappointed in the slightest to find out my assumptions were correct. I followed everything in the build up to this game and that's the conclusion I came to. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I genuinely wasn't expecting (or wanting) any interaction with other players beyond the odd "lol look another planet called Harambe" moment.
So far the feeling of loneliness and exploration is the main appeal for me. That's exactly what I wanted this game to be and it is delivering beautifully so far. I can't help but think that bumping into other players would ruin that somewhat - so I for one am glad that's not a big part of the game (or any part of the game, it seems!).
That said, if anyone feels they were mislead or were simply expecting something else then sorry to hear that but I guess this just isn't the game for you. Don't buy it/return it and move on
So impossible statistically that two people were on the same planet(and at the same spot on planet) on Day 1.
I don't think many were expecting some MMO, but just assumed what Sean said was correct that you had a slim chance of seeing another player. He even talked about it with Colbert.
Hey, it's cool that you are happy it may not be included. Many others like myself thought it was in the game, since Sean mentioned it fairly often.
I still like the game, but I'm confused why so many are being dismissive towards those who are disappointed the feature isn't probably in the game.
All Sean had to do was be honest and say "Sorry, I'm afraid we couldn't include it in the game at this time, but hope to in future updates" Not sure why he hasn't been more clear on the subject.
Bedlam, in this thread you've sworn at me and posted stuff like this calling me a fanboy and defense force. I was the guy who posted about packet captures proving there is no PVP multiplayer in the game, it doesn't send location etc. I got a death threat from a fan on Twitter over that. Maybe, just maybe, the world isn't black and white and people should stop swearing at each other and start listening and communicating.
Yeah, I think that's the problem in videogames. I never saw such a thing in other media, like books or movies.
I mean, I'm a big fan of MGS, but I have no problems on saying MGSV underdelivered for me, and I was partially disappointed.
I'm a big fan of Aronofsky and I have no problems on saying Noah and The Fountain suck.
People need to learn to be objective, because they would benefit from it.
If SH keep on doing those things and they always go away with it because, no matter what, some people will defend them, they will do it again and again in the future.
I mean, the DDOS thing toward Jim Sterling is ridicoulus and only a numch of crying babies would do such a thing.
Audioboxer
Member
If you think the person on Twitter is a GAFer (handle name?) please report it to the mods!
Smh. Some people.
Also report it to Twitter... but good luck with them responding.
Vincent Grayson
Member
The Fountain is fucking amazing you heathen. And further, admitting you didn't like a thing you'd normally be a fan of is not "being objective". It's just you not liking that thing, which is fine.
Nope. Big gaming media outlets such as IGN, where Joe Mainstream gets their gaming news from, were equally mislead by Murray's deceptive marketing talk and reported about the MP.
Just yesterday IGN (and many other sites) reported that network issues were the reason for why the player's couldn't see themselves but that it would be fixed soon.
1. I've never sworn at you and never called you specifically a fanboy. (edit: okay, maybe I did indirectly with this very last post)
2. I know you posted about the packet captures.
3. That doesn't change that you kept posting all kinds of excuses for the developer's actions.
4. Didn't you make that same post earlier? I think I already answered the points about death threats and so on.
I'm pretty sure the fact it doesn't send position prevent all kind of multiplayer, not just the player versus player experience.
To be clear, it was not a GAFer. It was somebody who had a NMS logo as their avatar (and no, it wasn't Sean, haha). I reported it and turned open DMs off.
It's not just games where this happens. Marvel and DC fans. Sports. Religion. People want to believe. Which is the motto of this website. My point is always: take a balanced view. Sean was clearly well in over his head when it came to interviews - he sold the game very well, but he didn't know when to stop talking fully. But he will learn.
Eh, but my point is too often in videogames industry people judge some things with blind eyes...I mean, I won't forget the Konami's bootcamp for MGSV and the pletora of 10/10 the game got (even from reviewers playing with the chicken hat).
Luckily for NMS it seems critics are reviewing the game properly, and Metacritic reflects this at least.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Unless they published a review with incorrect information, my point stands. The average buyer won't have a clue about some hypothetical feature that isn't promoted in the packaging or advertising.
Now, if IGN is reporting something incorrectly (like saying a feature that we don't know how it works is just borked due to servers) that's them fucking up their reporting. If I were writing for IGN right now, I sure as shit wouldn't be saying that, because there is nothing to support that conclusion. Right now, the only reasonable thing to say would be "This game doesn't appear to have any real-time multiplayer elements" if you're attempting to inform your readers accurately.
You have. "Fucking lol" for one thing, in this thread, quoting me.
Not excuses. Reasons, from my point of view. I'm allowed one. I believe in balance, not black and white and good and evil.
As opposed to the super-rational "ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY OF LIES!! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!" contingent? No room for a moderate middle-ground apparently
Netherscourge
Banned
How long before the PC data mining begins?
Audioboxer
Member
Is the PC version out now?
Sad to say I'm more excited about what they manage to dig up than anything else right now lol. Looks like our PC brothers and sisters will get the answers for us HG are refusing to answer right now.
Netherscourge
Banned
I'm hoping the Steam version has better networking.
It's not using PSN, so that's already a plus.
It's not using PSN, so that's already a plus.
Anything is better than PSN in networking regard
Think it's 4-5 hours until it releases or something on PC.
Completely right. The question is: who is to blame for not writing that? I definitely think that a big part of the blame rests on the generally rather incompetent games press. But some part is certainly on Murray's deliberately obtuse messaging.
No one cried "consipiracy!" We said "deceptive marketing!" - which, as has become increasingly clear, this is.
Ahahahahaha, but yeah, Steam unlocks in just under 5 hours now.
Audioboxer
Member
lol, I don't know what I expected.
ClosingADoor
Member
If it was said in one interview or so and just confusing, I'd call it a screw up. But he said it in multiple interviews and stated you can play with friends, and the only way you know how you look if is another player sees you.
Nobody expected PVP experiences like in World of Warcraft or Destiny. But considering the developer talked about some kind of multiplayer being there, you can't blame people for thinking "this is not a multiplayer game" is not the same as "there are zero multiplayer features." Journey also isn't a multiplayer game for example.
Game releases in 5 hours, so then.
There is no news from the developer, so anything they write is them making their own conclusions. Which could very well be wrong then.
OuterLimits
Member
I consider myself in the middle. I think they did a great job with such a small team. I like the game but think it has many flaws. I also think Sean got carried away with promoting the game and started exaggerating certain features. His sudden silence on this issue is rather annoying as well.
I agree re modding.
So for me, say NMS's gameplay is 7/10, like its actual mechanics and loops, but it's content is like a 9/10, say it's gameworld, structure, and narrative. And the sum of those is a high scorer for me: while Destiny is an easy 10/10 for gameplay it's content honestly was like 2/10. No story, very small worlds (hugely contrary to their promises, a complete lie, and worse: with nothing in them at all) and a long-term structure based on a literally obnoxious grind.
A pedantic argument - but you're not wrong.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I think it merits mentioning in a review something like "Early previews suggested an online component of the game beyond the uploading of discoveries, but those features do not appear to have made the cut" until and unless there's clarification. But honestly, I don't think anything more than that is warranted.
People (including enthusiasts posting on GAF, reddit, etc) should maybe stop buying shit based on previews and instead wait for an actual release. Plenty of consumers already do that.
I feel like it's just a little silly that we get so invested in a thing prior to release that the simplicity of it being marketed and sold as a single player game with nary a mention of MP seems to fall on deaf ears.
Maybe something changed, maybe it didn't. Maybe there's more to it than we know, or maybe not. But the actual game is out, and none of its release promotion calls it an MP game or suggests players should see it as such, even ignoring stuff on Twitter.
I'd like an answer too, but I just don't see the merit in the consumer outrage being fanned here and elsewhere when the product actually being sold thus far does not appear to have made any false claims about its content.
David Ricardo
Member
He literally said that you can meet other players online. He said it on Colbert, and many other times. Followed by "but the chance of that happening is very small blablablah".
If the chance is zero, he lied to us. I don't know why there is so much people here trying to unsay the things he said. It's on youtube, on the web, it's everywhere.
And I have the game, and I love it for what it is. And it's incredible that such an small team did such an entertaining game, etc...
But lying to your consumers to sell more games is a big nono. And if they did so, they deserve all the flak they get and then some.
Obviously we can't know for certain, but is it possible IGN (et al) reached out to Hello for confirmation and Hello said (in confidence to IGN et al) that players can do this but that it's down to network issues?
You've done it to me, too, and it wasn't 'indirect'.
Calm down.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Yawn, I'm up, can't sleep because of my shoulder. What did I miss. Did we finally do it?
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