I'm totally open to other solutions.
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A young girl sewn her lips and getting laughed at - Australia, you let this happen.
- Thread starter Laughing Banana
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I'm totally open to other solutions.
That is what I was saying, yeah. The conditions in the facility sound horrific, and something should definitely be done about it.
Then the best way to begin discussions on other less morally reprehensible solutions is to make it well known that the current solution is completely unacceptable. Not to pretend that this the best compromise that can be achieved given unfavourable conditions. It would be better if we did not pretend to play the part of a parent disciplining a child who doesn't know any better.
Sickboy007
Member
Keep this in mind every time politicians in your country propose an "Australian immigration system".
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
A good start would be pumping money into the detention centres to train better staff and allowing full investigative media access to ensure accountability. There will probably always be some degree of abuse when you have people who have the kind of power over others that security guards have over detainees, but we have an absolute duty to do everything we can to minimize this. The idea we should simply turn a blind eye is horrific.
MisterFalcon
Member
Yes, our wonderful European system where thousands drown and thousands more die in the desert when smugglers steal their stuff and leave them behind.
Still open to solutions, not moralising.
I agree. I'd like to know if our policy of secrecy does have any impact as well.
I think the people suggesting that system are already well aware of how inhumane the system is, they just don't care about brown and black people and would rather see them dead or tortured than living in the same country.
"A UN report, to be presented to the UN Human Rights Council on Monday, found that the Australian immigration system breached the global convention on torture and inhuman treatment."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006858
A very public report on the torture there by a global body resulted in nothing. I expect nothing to happen again. No one can pretend ignorance as if this was some tight secret until today.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006858
A very public report on the torture there by a global body resulted in nothing. I expect nothing to happen again. No one can pretend ignorance as if this was some tight secret until today.
Which is terrible
But you really believe the answer is lock them up and torture them?
Theonik
Member
So are you suggesting we should send a taxi to pick them up? I mean it's a terrible state of affairs but other than provide them with rescue when they are in dangers in our waters what are we to do about it?
What's the comparison here?
A system of hiding systematic cruelty to save national face removing accountability from anyone involved almost definitely contributes to these atrocities happening.
I'm sure it's great if you're not a refugee or brown.
I dunno, it could be great if you are a refugee. It's just that you're not allowed there.
You're stuck on an island 2000km watching as Australian guards laugh at mutilated children.
Sickboy007
Member
Operation Mare Nostrum seemed to work, but it ended when EU member states, chief amongst them the UK, refused to contribute to it.
I mean you're asking me to present alternatives and if I can't it somehow justifies what's currently adopted? Is that right? Well I made it clear that the best way to arrive at a better solution is to launch a serious discussion on the subject. I know the limitations of my knowledge and expertise and I'm probably not the best person in isolation to present solutions. The problem is that such reports have been slowly dripping out for the past year and no major corrective actions have taken place. I'll continue to moralise rather than apathetically accepting the status quo. If this really is the best we can do, then it would be better for the government to present that case rather than hide it in secrecy.
Some right cunts in this thread trying to defend this.
Sorry my Australian friends, you have to take this L, it happened on your watch, under the government you elected with your consent. So anyone trying to play some whatabouttery regarding other countries should STFU. Because we all know that no Aussie travelling anywhere in the world under any kind of status would be treated this way.
Sorry my Australian friends, you have to take this L, it happened on your watch, under the government you elected with your consent. So anyone trying to play some whatabouttery regarding other countries should STFU. Because we all know that no Aussie travelling anywhere in the world under any kind of status would be treated this way.
I mean towards decreasing deaths at sea. It's the stated goal of the policy, I'd like to know if it has an impact.
Barrylocke
Member
I was first introduced to the situation with a recent replay of the This American Life web show No Island is an Island. It was a pretty insane story about the countries history (which also includes international money laundering). The craziest part about it was that the story first aired in 2003, but since then things have actually gotten even worse.
It's disgusting that a situation like that can go on for so long, while many citizens say they deserve harsher treatment. Every "developed" nation seems to have its own share of Trumpish type fans.
It's disgusting that a situation like that can go on for so long, while many citizens say they deserve harsher treatment. Every "developed" nation seems to have its own share of Trumpish type fans.
Sexual abuse happens in all institutions, it's a fact of life. The sides aren't pro-sexual abuse and anti-sexual abuse, they're: We can reduce sexual abuse in such a way that it doesn't reduce the efficacy of the program, and we can't reduce sexual abuse without increasing drownings. I'd like to believe we can, but standing around crying about how racist we are for implementing a policy that commits evil through action to stop a greater evil through inaction isn't achieving it.
This is one of those times where good intentions isn't enough.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Which is you know, staring you in the face, and that is to make these centres humane, safe and reasonably comfortable places to live. What you're saying sounds like excuse making for barbaric conduct. According to a lot of voters though, refugees aren't humans. They might never accept 'their' taxpayers money going in to fund huge improvements in those conditions, but my view of those voters is those pieces of shit should go fuck themselves.
Are you seriously going to commit to this statement?
I would like to know how you've arrived at this conclusion and why it's a binary choice.
lol as if the stated goal is the real reason for their information lockdown and anti-whistleblower policies
i'd say you're naive as fuck but i've seen your posts in other threads so at this point i think you'll just defend anything so long as it comes from a conservative government
Royal_Phalanx
Member
What the fuck
And I'd say I'm for good policy rather than good intentions. I believe in actually achieving things, rather than standing about smugly wanking ourselves off about how many good vibes we've sent out. What government that comes from is irrelevant. I didn't even vote for our conservative government at the election last month.
I didn't say it's a binary choice, I'm saying people reducing it to the good and the bad are being disingenuous. There are reasons we enact policy, even if we disagree with it. The LNP aren't SPECTRE.
Evidently you disagree but as far as I'm concerned institutionalised torture is the greater evil here
Read the above, he explicitly says that allowing them to risk their lives is the greater evil
Royal_Phalanx
Member
So you're basically saying "It's fine if you're being raped and tortured, at least you aren't dead!".
What is your position on the matter then may I ask? What in this case constitutes good policy and good governance?
Also please don't patronize me by implying I'm fighting a straw man. There's no doubt that there is a reason why this policy has been enacted. That doesn't mean those reasons cannot include apathy (at worst) or lack of imagination. I'm still wondering why the only choices presented and available to use are either, do the best to limit abuse and in exchange risk increasing deaths by drowning or let things continue as they are which may very well minimise deaths. I don't see the logical mechanism for this trade off. Or even accepting this in the short term, why in the long term there cannot be efforts made towards other solutions which may very well rely on cooperation from other countries.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Exactly! The boats are coming across in DROVES, absolute DROVES, and if we don't force the kids to kill themselves in camps like this then all of Australia is lost.
If this is already happening then Australia has already been lost.
partyphone
Banned
people like darkace are why the solution never lies in the middle. get some fucking empathy, mate.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
There's nothing about the current conclusion that requires children to be abused.
You're essentially saying killing people is fine because we aren't the people pulling the trigger. You're allowing people to die through inaction because you don't want to be seen doing the wrong thing.
Trying to play who is higher on the pedestal of morality doesn't really work when your argument boils down to look guys child rape might not be all bad
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Holy shit
CrankyKong
Member
Most Australians are nasty blobs that only act friendly on the surface.
We deserve a steel capped boot to the shins
We deserve a steel capped boot to the shins
Spiral Insanity
Banned
This is heartbreaking. They should crack this open. Appeal to the world. Bring out the shocking images and stories.
Australia needs to fuck off.
Happy darkace is banned for that hate speech. He sounded like someone defending the holocaust.
Australia needs to fuck off.
Happy darkace is banned for that hate speech. He sounded like someone defending the holocaust.
...What the actual fuck?
Alex Connolly
Member
This was a heart-breaking interview, for those interested...
Reprehensible reaction, just for shedding light on a glaring lack of humanity. You can just imagine the bile-inducing mechanical responses trotted out by the suits - "We do not discuss operational matters". Shameful.
Reprehensible reaction, just for shedding light on a glaring lack of humanity. You can just imagine the bile-inducing mechanical responses trotted out by the suits - "We do not discuss operational matters". Shameful.
At the very least they'd make some big saving before going back to their country somewhere else.
They have already brought it to the world. Unless allies are willing to throw down some serious sanctions (which they won't cause no one cares about poor brown and Asian people) Australia won't do a damn thing
The racism in the uneven application of international law infuriates me. What also infuriates me is that the scumbags who are supporting this will never be in a position where they need to rely on the Refugee Convention and they know it.
Two things. If you think supporting torture and rape are a good idea here, you're mistaken.
Secondly, quit popping into these threads and trying to deflect from the discussion by pointing the finger at other countries. If you sincerely care about another issue in another country, go make a thread. The fact that my country has a heinous history -- much discussed, by the way -- does not alter your country's history one whit. If you'd like to discuss comparative atrocities throughout history, again, feel free to make a different thread.
Secondly, quit popping into these threads and trying to deflect from the discussion by pointing the finger at other countries. If you sincerely care about another issue in another country, go make a thread. The fact that my country has a heinous history -- much discussed, by the way -- does not alter your country's history one whit. If you'd like to discuss comparative atrocities throughout history, again, feel free to make a different thread.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
The UN needs to put down some serious economic sanctions on Australia until they comply. Sadly I don't see it happening.
Part of the crazy thing about the refugee situation on Nauru is that Australia almost forced the entire population of Nauru to leave the island due to the extreme level of damage done to the island from Australia/Britain's phosphate mining operations.
It's no wonder the people of Nauru refused to leave given how Australia treats other refugees.
It's no wonder the people of Nauru refused to leave given how Australia treats other refugees.
I can't get over the fact there are around 450 refugees on the island.
Just fucking take them in Australia. For fuck's sake.
That the government would rather let shit like this happen rather than take them in boggles the mind.
I think every developed country just needs to take in any refugees. Do people really want to be slightly better off at the expense of other peoples lives and ability to have a decent standard of living.
Just fucking take them in Australia. For fuck's sake.
That the government would rather let shit like this happen rather than take them in boggles the mind.
I think every developed country just needs to take in any refugees. Do people really want to be slightly better off at the expense of other peoples lives and ability to have a decent standard of living.
ebullientprism
Member
Jesus fucking christ!
From the OP to people trying to deflect and/or defend, this is one fucking depressing read first thing in the morning. I gotta stop clicking on these threads. The news itself is bad enough but to have people try to pass it off as "well your country isnt doing much better" is genuinely depressing.
From the OP to people trying to deflect and/or defend, this is one fucking depressing read first thing in the morning. I gotta stop clicking on these threads. The news itself is bad enough but to have people try to pass it off as "well your country isnt doing much better" is genuinely depressing.
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