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[Romulus]

There are levels of what is plausible.

From our current perspective.

I'll just tackle science. As we know it, science is constantly proven wrong, hard "facts" in science that people would bet their life on turned out to be false. You could set around with the most intelligent humans on the planet just 50, 100, 200, 3000 years ago and listen in on their conversations and some of it would be bullshit. Not because they're dumb, but because as humans we're just figuring things out from the foundation. Even 500 years from now we'll still be at the foundation in terms of the real frontier. Being "right" and "in the know" is basically about which time period you live in. In 10,000 years if humanity still exists, I would wager they actually know a few things instead of believing they do.

 

[Shodan09]

Mick West! Lol, lmao.

 

[INC]

Interesting response. Wonder if he would have the same response if the "debris" was from another nation. Seems like his response would be very normal or nothing at all. "We have the enemies' craft in our possession." So fucking what in that case, it's significant yes but why are you responding in such a way that your answer could have huge implications? Maybe he's simply worried he could get in trouble? Maybe, but why even answer to it being a UFO in the first place. You can't identify if another human technology is even from this world? Are they literally that far ahead?

Pentagon head of UAV investigation

i cant take this dude seriously tbh, the goate screams attention

 

[GAMETA]

From our current perspective.

I'll just tackle science. As we know it, science is constantly proven wrong, hard "facts" in science that people would bet their life on turned out to be false. You could set around with the most intelligent humans on the planet just 50, 100, 200, 3000 years ago and listen in on their conversations and some of it would be bullshit. Not because they're dumb, but because as humans we're just figuring things out from the foundation. Even 500 years from now we'll still be at the foundation in terms of the real frontier. Being "right" and "in the know" is basically about which time period you live in. In 10,000 years if humanity still exists, I would wager they actually know a few things instead of believing they do.

I agree and am open to any possibility, the thing is, there's no evidence to infer or conclude that any of the UAPs/UFOs we've seen or documented are of alien origin. There isn't, and aliens, contrary to what the "believers" say, are not the most plausible option to explain said phenomena.

It's the same with people who use God to explain things, right?... What's that light in the sky? "Oh, It must be an angel sent by God" is the same as "Oh, It must be aliens from outer space".

So when you say it's faith that keep people from accepting, well, that's pure faith in your own beliefs as well.

 

[Romulus]

I agree and am open to any possibility, the thing is, there's no evidence to infer or conclude that any of the UAPs/UFOs we've seen or documented are of alien origin. There isn't, and aliens, contrary to what the "believers" say, are not the most plausible option to explain.

It's the same with people who use God to explain things, right?... What's that light in the sky? "It's must be an angel sent by God" is the same as "It must be aliens".

So when you say it's faith that keep people from accepting, well, that's pure faith in your own beliefs as well.

I mean that's obivious. Why would be in this thread having a discussion if there was confirmation either way? And imposing my supposed beliefs and comparing them to other people of faith is a false equivalence. I have room to shift my views for creation, they do not. Having faith in something and seeing it as more likely is not the same. If you think Jesus is more likely to real vs thinking he's real absolutely, which one will get you a ticket to heaven?

 

[GAMETA]

I mean that's obivious. Why would be in this thread having a discussion if there was confirmation either way? And imposing my supposed beliefs and comparing them to other people of faith is a false equivalence. I have room to shift my views for creation, they do not. Having faith in something and seeing it as more likely is not the same. If you think Jesus is more likely to real vs thinking he's real absolutely, which one will get you a ticket to heaven?

There's not much discussion here tbh, it's mostly confirmation bias.


Of course there's room to shift views. If you separate God from religion/dogma, there's room to anything.

To believe in a creator does not necessarily mean to believe in religion, it also doesn't require you to deny anything, be it evolution or be it life outside Earth. So the same goes for believing in aliens, right?

Saying "it could be aliens" is completely different than saying "it's aliens".

So, if you're going to say "it's aliens" then we need the evidence (which you have none), it's as simple as that.

 

[StormCell]

There's not much discussion here tbh, it's mostly confirmation bias.


Of course there's room to shift views. If you separate God from religion/dogma, there's room to anything.

To believe in a creator does not necessarily mean to believe in religion, it also doesn't require you to deny anything, be it evolution or be it life outside Earth. So the same goes for believing in aliens, right?

Saying "it could be aliens" is completely different than saying "it's aliens".

So, if you're going to say "it's aliens" then we need the evidence (which you have none), it's as simple as that.

Semantics. Semantics. Semantics.

What even is an "alien"? Do we determine alienhood based on something's origin? If a thing comes from another dimension rather than another planet, is it not still alien? If the thing comes from this planet, could it not still be alien?

 

[Romulus]

There's not much discussion here tbh, it's mostly confirmation bias.


Of course there's room to shift views. If you separate God from religion/dogma, there's room to anything.

To believe in a creator does not necessarily mean to believe in religion, it also doesn't require you to deny anything, be it evolution or be it life outside Earth. So the same goes for believing in aliens, right?

Saying "it could be aliens" is completely different than saying "it's aliens".

So, if you're going to say "it's aliens" then we need the evidence (which you have none), it's as simple as that.

Again, the reason for the thread and discussion will answer that. If there was absolute confirmation there would never be a need for debate or anything.

 

[Alright]

I find it more believable that the tech we are seeing is from foreign nations. If we want to go to the realm of extreme possibility, then i would say it's still more believable that another species of intelligent primates, or a splinter group from our own species, is responsible for this tech, or even us from the future!

We are unsure of the timings on the history of the origin of our species by around 150,000 years. If we take the scientifically accepted view that cognition came in to existence approx 75,000 years ago, well, imagine what we could have achieved if our species goes on living for another 75,000 years! We've gone from the caves of Africa to (soon) the caves on Mars in 75,000 years.

Chuck in to the mix that Homo Sapiens were not the only intelligent Homonid knocking around back then, but we seem to be the only ones with cognitive abilities, and it isn't anymore far fetched to believe another intelligent race exists, VS aliens.

 

[GAMETA]

Semantics. Semantics. Semantics.

What even is an "alien"? Do we determine alienhood based on something's origin? If a thing comes from another dimension rather than another planet, is it not still alien? If the thing comes from this planet, could it not still be alien?

In this field of discussion it means extraterrestrial, that is, from outside the Earth.

And it's not semantics, it's the difference between being open to the possibility Versus blindly believing without evidence. One is welcomed into any scientific and philosophical field, the other means you're delusional.

 

[Romulus]

I find it more believable that the tech we are seeing is from foreign nations. If we want to go to the realm of extreme possibility, then i would say it's still more believable that another species of intelligent primates, or a splinter group from our own species, is responsible for this tech, or even us from the future!

We are unsure of the timings on the history of the origin of our species by around 150,000 years. If we take the scientifically accepted view that cognition came in to existence approx 75,000 years ago, well, imagine what we could have achieved if our species goes on living for another 75,000 years! We've gone from the caves of Africa to (soon) the caves on Mars in 75,000 years.

Chuck in to the mix that Homo Sapiens were not the only intelligent Homonid knocking around back then, but we seem to be the only ones with cognitive abilities, and it isn't anymore far fetched to believe another intelligent race exists, VS aliens.

I forgot about the theories of other primates evolving on earth and leaving the planet. Fucking wild to imagine that but theres so much time in between that we know nothing about.

 

[StormCell]

In this field of discussion it means extraterrestrial, that is, from outside the Earth.

And it's not semantics, it's the difference between being open to the possibility Versus blindly believing without evidence. One is welcomed into any scientific and philosophical field, the other means you're delusional.

Then I must not be of this field of discussion... What would you call another technologically advanced race of beings who happen to originate and reside on our planet? They would be alien to us for they don't reside among us or with us. I use a very common and/or biblical definition of the word alien. I am an alien amongst non-Christians...

 

[StormCell]

I find it more believable that the tech we are seeing is from foreign nations. If we want to go to the realm of extreme possibility, then i would say it's still more believable that another species of intelligent primates, or a splinter group from our own species, is responsible for this tech, or even us from the future!

We are unsure of the timings on the history of the origin of our species by around 150,000 years. If we take the scientifically accepted view that cognition came in to existence approx 75,000 years ago, well, imagine what we could have achieved if our species goes on living for another 75,000 years! We've gone from the caves of Africa to (soon) the caves on Mars in 75,000 years.

Chuck in to the mix that Homo Sapiens were not the only intelligent Homonid knocking around back then, but we seem to be the only ones with cognitive abilities, and it isn't anymore far fetched to believe another intelligent race exists, VS aliens.

I think we're basically on the same page. I feel like hominids are just one of the various possibilities. I've stated before that the next most hospitable location that we're currently aware of isn't somewhere else in the solar system but beneath the surface of our own planet--I think it goes without argument that it's more hospitable than anywhere else we've found.

I know that it seems wild to consider a whole other civilization hiding on this planet to the extent that we wouldn't have knowledge of them, especially one that seems more advanced than our own, but I'm in agreement with you that it seems more plausible than a space-faring civilization making the long distance trip here from some other star. Ours, so far, is the best place for life, and it would seem a bit odd if we're the only ones to have gained cognition.

 

[Alright]

I think we're basically on the same page. I feel like hominids are just one of the various possibilities. I've stated before that the next most hospitable location that we're currently aware of isn't somewhere else in the solar system but beneath the surface of our own planet--I think it goes without argument that it's more hospitable than anywhere else we've found.

I know that it seems wild to consider a whole other civilization hiding on this planet to the extent that we wouldn't have knowledge of them, especially one that seems more advanced than our own, but I'm in agreement with you that it seems more plausible than a space-faring civilization making the long distance trip here from some other star. Ours, so far, is the best place for life, and it would seem a bit odd if we're the only ones to have gained cognition.

Cognitive ability is what really bothers me about a lot of theories. That we are the only species to have evolved with the cognitive ability and after 250,000+ years we haven't seen a single other living organism develop it, or even get close to it.

Yet fish, birds, reptiles, mammals, etc all evolved along the same lines (to put it simply), and none of them have shown cognition.

13 billion years since the big bang, 3 billion years since the creation of our planet, 1 billion years since life first evolved and we're the best the known universe has to offer? We must live in the Special Ed universe.

 

[StormCell]

Cognitive ability is what really bothers me about a lot of theories. That we are the only species to have evolved with the cognitive ability and after 250,000+ years we haven't seen a single other living organism develop it, or even get close to it.

Yet fish, birds, reptiles, mammals, etc all evolved along the same lines (to put it simply), and none of them have shown cognition.

13 billion years since the big bang, 3 billion years since the creation of our planet, 1 billion years since life first evolved and we're the best the known universe has to offer? We must live in the Special Ed universe.

It's almost as if cognition is special. One might even say like god.

And I don't know how I would perceive some subterranean civilization with technologies that surpass our own. It would be getting a bit Biblical and End Times-y on this planet, if you know what I mean...

 

[Alright]

It's almost as if cognition is special. One might even say like god.

And I don't know how I would perceive some subterranean civilization with technologies that surpass our own. It would be getting a bit Biblical and End Times-y on this planet, if you know what I mean...

If we are God, then religion has vastly over estimated how much power God has.

Yeah that's the other thing, if there is a more than one intelligent species on the planet, why haven't we wiped one another out yet?

 

[GAMETA]

If we are God, then religion has vastly over estimated how much power God has.

Yeah that's the other thing, if there is a more than one intelligent species on the planet, why haven't we wiped one another out yet?

I think he meant cognition was given to us by God.

Recently I've listened to a podcast (in Portuguese) from an highly praised academic in Neurology. According to him, we don't seem to find evidence that even other hominids developed consciousness or complex cognition, so, from what we know so far, the Homo Sapiens is indeed the only species (at least on Earth) to develop complex intelligence.

And according to him and studies he showed, to develop complex intelligence is not as simple as "give it time", meaning that, even through the process of evolution, we cannot expect other species to develop complex cognition and become conscious, not even to a close degree of what we have.

It's kind of crazy right? Knowing that, at some point, for whatever reason, we developed beyond what seems to be the natural state of life, or at least as far as we know it.


I wonder if we (and our intelligence) are not a product of life trying to spread beyond our planet...

 

[Alright]

I think he meant cognition was given to us by God.

Recently I've listened to a podcast (in Portuguese) from an academic in Neurology. According to him, we don't seem to find evidence that even other hominids developed consciousness or complex cognition, so, from what we know so far, the Homo Sapiens is indeed the only species (at least on Earth) to develop complex intelligence.

And according to him and studies he showed, to develop complex intelligence is not as simple as "give it time", meaning that, even through the process of evolution, we cannot expect other species to develop complex cognition and become conscious.

It's kind of crazy right? Knowing that, at some point, for whatever reason, we developed beyond what seems to be the natural state of life, as least as far as we know it.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Yeah the Human cognitive ability is why we why and how we wiped out 98% of species in existence, including our neanderthal cousins. There's a book called 'sapiens' which explains our history in incredible details and really makes you think about everything. I can't recommend it enough.

Cognition is nuts. Even more nuts is that It doesn't control us. Our mammalian brain does all the heavy lifting, all we do is put thoughts, ideas and reasoning on to why we do what we do.

One of my favourite bits in Sapiens is this thought:

"You couldn't convince a monkey to give up its only banana now, for 100 bananas in monkey heaven"

But we can. We can convince another human to live however we choose them to live, based on ethereal ideas and fancy stories. Hell, a terrorist is so convinced about the afterlife that they will end their own life. Imagine that? millions of years of evolution coming up with ways of keeping a life form alive through dual organs, brain chemistry, redundant systems, all for us to piss it away because we believe a story that can't be proved.

How can we hope to understand the goings on outside of our planet, when we can't figure out what's going on in our own head. Even worse, when we do figure out consciousness... then what?

 

[StormCell]

If we are God, then religion has vastly over estimated how much power God has.

Yeah that's the other thing, if there is a more than one intelligent species on the planet, why haven't we wiped one another out yet?

Not God. Like God. The Bible says we are made in His image. Cognition makes us like God...

Other beings living underneath the surface with cognition? Oh craaaap.....

 

[Alright]

Not God. Like God. The Bible says we are made in His image. Cognition makes us like God...

Other beings living underneath the surface with cognition? Oh craaaap.....

I get ya

It's a widely accepted fact by archaeologists that at one point in our history, it resembled middle-earth from LOTR because of how many homid species were running around. Yet, out of all of those hominids, only we got cognition and even stranger still, is that no hominid species has emerged since then. There were loads of us evolving, then just us. We wiped most of them out, the others naturally died off. Still, some 150,000 years later, no more hominids. Nothing exists between us and primates. it's very strange.

 

[Romulus]

 

[fran.fernandez]

I saw this on a tv show. If an UFO is identified then is a FO?

 

[V4skunk]

I can't get my head around that. To not cause a sonic boom would require instantaneous teleportation. Ignoring how much theoretical power that would require, why would they even fly around if they could teleport? A lot of the alien/ufo stuff falls down for me because advanced tech needs to adhere to basic reasoning.



35g is far away from 9g in reality.

What your talking about is ~200G and not outside of what we can achieve. Project Orion (1958. I wiki'd it to check the date) was looking at 100G+ for it's uncrewed launchers

You can't get your head around it because you don't know what technology exists.

Salvatore Cezar Pais Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

USPTO patent applications submitted by and patents granted to Salvatore Cezar Pais

patents.justia.com

And again accelerating to 14,000mph in a second or less has g forces orders of magnitudes larger than 35g.

 

[V4skunk]

Lol, the amount of stupid low IQ people that believe in aliens is humongous, my friend.

Have you actually seen the folks that go to conventions and stuff? What about those that buy bullshit courses and stuff about the Cabala, Intergalactic Federation and similar bs? What about those that believe in the stupidiest "evidence"?

LOL you gotta be kidding me.

The "faith" some of you have is just on par with religious people, same of flat earthers, anunaki, bigfoot...

But then you have military generals and other higher ups saying the ufo phenomenon is indeed very real. They have been coming forward for 30 years saying they'll testify in court under oath.
Go watch the national press club conference from 2001 and watch all the big name military people and what they have to say.

 

[INC]

I saw this on a tv show. If an UFO is identified then is a FO?

if its identified, then you just call it, what you identified it as.......'a plane' or 'balloon'

 

[Alright]

You can't get your head around it because you don't know what technology exists.

Salvatore Cezar Pais Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

USPTO patent applications submitted by and patents granted to Salvatore Cezar Pais

patents.justia.com

And again accelerating to 14,000mph in a second or less has g forces orders of magnitudes larger than 35g.

You misunderstand. putting the advanced tech to one side, why fly if you can teleport?

Also there is 0 impact to the surroundings, which there would be with so much acceleration and G force going on, not to mention the large amount of power you would need

 

[Romulus]

You misunderstand. putting the advanced tech to one side, why fly if you can teleport?

Also there is 0 impact to the surroundings, which there would be with so much acceleration and G force going on, not to mention the large amount of power you would need

I look at it like the people trying to theorize flight just before the Wright Brothers. It was said to be impossible to do by intelligent, educated people. This is obviously much more complex and advanced obviously, but being 1-5 huge breakthroughs from understanding it would easily make it seem "how does something heavier than air fly? Makes no sense??!" You could just hear the ignorance pouring out of intelligent peoples' mouths just because they lived at the wrong time.

 

[Razvedka]

I agree and am open to any possibility, the thing is, there's no evidence to infer or conclude that any of the UAPs/UFOs we've seen or documented are of alien origin. There isn't, and aliens, contrary to what the "believers" say, are not the most plausible option to explain said phenomena.

It's the same with people who use God to explain things, right?... What's that light in the sky? "Oh, It must be an angel sent by God" is the same as "Oh, It must be aliens from outer space".

So when you say it's faith that keep people from accepting, well, that's pure faith in your own beliefs as well.

Again, https://www.uaptheory.com/.

Decent encapsulation about why the 'skeptic position' has lost immense ground in the past 5 years alone.

Edit: though this guy's twitter handle, if it is the same person, says some stuff that's a 'bit out there' for me. Way less credible than that website in my opinion.

 

[Alright]

I look at it like the people trying to theorize flight just before the Wright Brothers. It was said to be impossible to do by intelligent, educated people. This is obviously much more complex and advanced obviously, but being 1-5 huge breakthroughs from understanding it would easily make it seem "how does something heavier than air fly? Makes no sense??!" You could just hear the ignorance pouring out of intelligent peoples' mouths just because they lived at the wrong time.

People were flying long before the Wright Brothers, and they weren't even the first ones to fly, but i get your point. I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying with my other point though. I agree with the concept that we don't know things, and that future tech will look like magic to us. I get that.

What is 'beyond tech' for me is the possibility that a craft/object can do what is claimed it can do, while not only ignoring the laws of known physics for itself (entirely plausible that an advanced craft can do that) but that it ignores the laws of physics for the surrounding areas. You can't, not break the sound barrier, if travelling faster than the speed of sound. The sound barrier is when the displacement of air happens quicker than the molecules can vibrate to transmit the sound, which in turn inverts the laws of pressure. Above the speed of sound, putting your thumb over the end of a garden hose would make the water come out with less pressure, vs more. You can't change that. And it's not like we could casually say "there's advanced tech" because you're talking about the complete deconstruction of how the Universe (at least our corner of it) operates. If we say that it is possible to deconstruct and mess with the laws of the known universe, then why fly here at all? Why not just create a 'wormhole' from their world to ours and just pop in and out? Why go through the unneccessary and extremely power-hungry method of flying here and then just randomly darting about?

I don't doubt advanced tech. I doubt the legitimacy of the claim that this craft did 14,000mph at 200G+ WITHOUT disturbing the local area. Because to me, that isn't advanced tech, that's ignoring physics, and not 'physics as we know it' i mean basic, basic, basic level physics.

 

[Romulus]

People were flying long before the Wright Brothers, and they weren't even the first ones to fly, but i get your point. I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying with my other point though. I agree with the concept that we don't know things, and that future tech will look like magic to us. I get that.

What is 'beyond tech' for me is the possibility that a craft/object can do what is claimed it can do, while not only ignoring the laws of known physics for itself (entirely plausible that an advanced craft can do that) but that it ignores the laws of physics for the surrounding areas. You can't, not break the sound barrier, if travelling faster than the speed of sound. The sound barrier is when the displacement of air happens quicker than the molecules can vibrate to transmit the sound, which in turn inverts the laws of pressure. Above the speed of sound, putting your thumb over the end of a garden hose would make the water come out with less pressure, vs more. You can't change that. And it's not like we could casually say "there's advanced tech" because you're talking about the complete deconstruction of how the Universe (at least our corner of it) operates. If we say that it is possible to deconstruct and mess with the laws of the known universe, then why fly here at all? Why not just create a 'wormhole' from their world to ours and just pop in and out? Why go through the unneccessary and extremely power-hungry method of flying here and then just randomly darting about?

I don't doubt advanced tech. I doubt the legitimacy of the claim that this craft did 14,000mph at 200G+ WITHOUT disturbing the local area. Because to me, that isn't advanced tech, that's ignoring physics, and not 'physics as we know it' i mean basic, basic, basic level physics.

I mean this just sounds like someone from the 1700s trying to make sense of a particle collider. The only difference is you have a 2020s perspective. What I'm saying to you is some of the laws of physics are not set in stone, our current understanding can be bent and broken. We don't want to believe that, but we are really in the primitive stages in my opinion. Our most brilliant scientists disagree on the most basic foundational pillars of the galaxy, how can even begin to conclude anything based on that when they can't come to an agreement?
In terms of flying vs teleporting. It could be as simple as a cruising speed and max acceleration ability. It could be that "teleporting"takes more energy

 

[Alright]

I mean this just sounds like someone from the 1700s trying to make sense of a particle collider. The only difference is you have a 2020s perspective. What I'm saying to you is some of the laws of physics are not set in stone, our current understanding can be bent and broken. We don't want to believe that, but we are really in the primitive stages in my opinion. Our most brilliant scientists disagree on the most basic foundational pillars of the galaxy, how can even begin to conclude anything based on that when they can't come to an agreement?
In terms of flying vs teleporting. It could be as simple as a cruising speed and max acceleration ability. It could be that "teleporting"takes more energy

You've missed the point again. Nobody disagrees on the basics, they are the basics. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, newtons 3 laws. One of newtons laws "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" is observed in every instance, of every piece of the universe we've seen, including here on Earth. The aliens can be as advanced as they want, They aren't overcoming the basics. and IF they did, it would mean everything we know is utter bollocks and somehow, through sheer dumb luck, we have been able to draw incredibly accurate conclusions that withstand the rigors of testing, time after time, century after century. That's some pretty good luck.

It could be. But then i would question the intelligence of a race of supposed aliens who set out to drive 300 miles with 305 miles worth of motion lotion in the tank.

 

[INC]

If its not displacing air, then it won't create a sonic boom tho.......right?

I think that's the point of these relesed videos, its not these things are just flying and rotating, its how theyre flying, which is, unlike anything we currently understand (the mass general public), of course this still doesn't rule out military or blackbook projects

 

[V4skunk]

People were flying long before the Wright Brothers, and they weren't even the first ones to fly, but i get your point. I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying with my other point though. I agree with the concept that we don't know things, and that future tech will look like magic to us. I get that.

What is 'beyond tech' for me is the possibility that a craft/object can do what is claimed it can do, while not only ignoring the laws of known physics for itself (entirely plausible that an advanced craft can do that) but that it ignores the laws of physics for the surrounding areas. You can't, not break the sound barrier, if travelling faster than the speed of sound. The sound barrier is when the displacement of air happens quicker than the molecules can vibrate to transmit the sound, which in turn inverts the laws of pressure. Above the speed of sound, putting your thumb over the end of a garden hose would make the water come out with less pressure, vs more. You can't change that. And it's not like we could casually say "there's advanced tech" because you're talking about the complete deconstruction of how the Universe (at least our corner of it) operates. If we say that it is possible to deconstruct and mess with the laws of the known universe, then why fly here at all? Why not just create a 'wormhole' from their world to ours and just pop in and out? Why go through the unneccessary and extremely power-hungry method of flying here and then just randomly darting about?

I don't doubt advanced tech. I doubt the legitimacy of the claim that this craft did 14,000mph at 200G+ WITHOUT disturbing the local area. Because to me, that isn't advanced tech, that's ignoring physics, and not 'physics as we know it' i mean basic, basic, basic level physics.

Salvatore Cezar Pais Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

USPTO patent applications submitted by and patents granted to Salvatore Cezar Pais

patents.justia.com

Lol you didn't even read these patents! Specifically the 2nd and 3rd patent.
You are also talking rubbish.

 

[Romulus]

You've missed the point again. Nobody disagrees on the basics, they are the basics. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, newtons 3 laws. One of newtons laws "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" is observed in every instance, of every piece of the universe we've seen, including here on Earth. The aliens can be as advanced as they want, They aren't overcoming the basics. and IF they did, it would mean everything we know is utter bollocks and somehow, through sheer dumb luck, we have been able to draw incredibly accurate conclusions that withstand the rigors of testing, time after time, century after century. That's some pretty good luck.

It could be. But then i would question the intelligence of a race of supposed aliens who set out to drive 300 miles with 305 miles worth of motion lotion in the tank.

I think you're missing the point honestly. It's one thing to operate within the laws of physics, it's another to have the ability to bend or even break them.

2 Accelerators Find Particles That May Break Known Laws of Physics

The LHC and the Belle experiment have found particle decay patterns that violate the Standard Model of particle physics, confirming earlier observations at the BaBar facility

www.scientificamerican.com

Imagine what we can do in 50,000 years. I honestly feel we have a flimsy understanding of physics. It works for the most part absolutely, but when we are so ignorant to things such as dark matter that literally make up most of the universe, how can we even begin to know what's possible?

Adding to that, some of the most renowned physicists in the world have tried to conclude that physics as we know it would be solved completely in their lifetime, only to end up very wrong. Look up the Michealson-Morley experiment. They were so confident before but didn't have a clue they were wrong.

Further, the fact that gravity doesn't mirror the 3 fundamental forces and is still somewhat incomplete really adds to the fact that beings or humans in the future can develop completely unknown tech based on more complete physics models.

 

[Alright]

If its not displacing air, then it won't create a sonic boom tho.......right?

I think that's the point of these relesed videos, its not these things are just flying and rotating, its how theyre flying, which is, unlike anything we currently understand (the mass general public), of course this still doesn't rule out military or blackbook projects

If it's not displacing the air then how is it reflecting the light and able to be recorded on film?

I can buy that in X thousands of years we will be able to break the laws of physics. But i won't buy that an advanced race broke not only one law of physics to be able to teleport and not displace air, but they also went ahead and broke another law of physics for the simple reason that they wanted to be caught on camera.

Salvatore Cezar Pais Inventions, Patents and Patent Applications - Justia Patents Search

USPTO patent applications submitted by and patents granted to Salvatore Cezar Pais

patents.justia.com

Lol you didn't even read these patents! Specifically the 2nd and 3rd patent.
You are also talking rubbish.

Cat mops are a patent.
Good chat.

I think you're missing the point honestly. It's one thing to operate within the laws of physics, it's another to have the ability to bend or even break them.

2 Accelerators Find Particles That May Break Known Laws of Physics

The LHC and the Belle experiment have found particle decay patterns that violate the Standard Model of particle physics, confirming earlier observations at the BaBar facility

www.scientificamerican.com

Imagine what we can do in 50,000 years. I honestly feel we have a flimsy understanding of physics. It works for the most part absolutely, but when we are so ignorant to things such as dark matter that literally make up most of the universe, how can we even begin to know what's possible?

Adding to that, some of the most renowned physicists in the world have tried to conclude that physics as we know it would be solved completely in their lifetime, only to end up very wrong. Look up the Michealson-Morley experiment. They were so confident before but didn't have a clue they were wrong.

Further, the fact that gravity doesn't mirror the 3 fundamental forces and is still somewhat incomplete really adds to the fact that beings or humans in the future can develop completely unknown tech based on more complete physics models.

I'll try again.

500,000 years ago, fish we're floating in the air. 100 million years ago, dinosaurs weren't walking through walls. 500 million years ago, the earliest life forms weren't teleporting about.

Try to discuss this without falling back on 'advanced tech', because that's the same line of reasoning that Bible Bashers use when discussing the existence of God; they always fall back on "God has a plan/is everywhere/can do anything". It isn't a counter-point, it's the intellectual equivalent of saying "Look over there!" and running away.

So lets say we agree, that X is possible in the future, yeah?

Now, with that in mind, that X is possible in the future, does it stand-up to scrutiny and logic that an advanced race would go to the trouble of working out how to create an ethereal craft, as in, it doesn't interact with the surroundings, and then go ahead and create an even more complicated craft that can A) not displace air and B) be a solid enough object that light refracts off of it, allowing us dumb idiots with our primitive capture technology, the ability to film it. You can have all the advanced tech in the universe, it doesn't stand to reason that you would make a craft more complicated than it had to be, just so it could be filmed by the race/planet that you're observing/spying on.

And that's fine that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, not everything is going to. And i believe this is where the UFO/Alien community falls down; they believe too much. Some things will pass the bullshit test, others will not and some will be down to interpretation and discussion. But falling over backwards to explain things away using "advanced technology" doesn't give us answers to any of the questions that really need asking.

 

[IDKFA]

I'm not buying the possibility that these things that have been observed by experienced military personnel (such as the tic tac that was observed by commander Fravor) are tech from another nation on earth.

The tech is so advanced to anything we know of at the moment that it's just nonsensical to think some other nation could have developed it and kept it totally secret.

When a powerful nation develops new tech that gives it the one up over its rivals, it doesn't keep it a total secret. It's like a dick waving competition. They want their rivals to know they have superior tech as a warning.

I'm not outright saying it's alien tech, but it damn well isn't something made on Earth by a foreign power.

 

[Alright]

I'm not buying the possibility that these things that have been observed by experienced military personnel (such as the tic tac that was observed by commander Fravor) are tech from another nation on earth.

The tech is so advanced to anything we know of at the moment that it's just nonsensical to think some other nation could have developed it and kept it totally secret.

When a powerful nation develops new tech that gives it the one up over its rivals, it doesn't keep it a total secret. It's like a dick waving competition. They want their rivals to know they have superior tech as a warning.

I'm not outright saying it's alien tech, but it damn well isn't something made on Earth by a foreign power.

What the common person knows is 20 years behind what the military has. So if one military is ahead by 10 years, then the tech is 30 years in to the future. With how quick the common person has seen things change in 30 years (in 1991 British TV only had 4 channels) the leap/change can be daunting to think about.

Combine that with how advanced the Chinese were/are and how advanced the Russians are in terms of flight, and how secretive both these groups are, i wouldn't be at all surprised if they were responsible. I saw their latest MiG (29? iirc) about 10 years ago, and the manoeuvres that it was pulling were unbelievable. So unbelievable were the manoeuvres that the crash team scrambled as they (and everyone else) thought it had gone in to a flat spin. It was just the pilot showing off.

Though i disagree entirely about foreign nations showing off tech. There are unbelievable lengths that some militaries go to, in order to protect even some of the most mundane advancements.

Then there are aircraft that we know about, that have top secret, secrets on them. The B2 stealth for example.

 

[Romulus]

If it's not displacing the air then how is it reflecting the light and able to be recorded on film?

I can buy that in X thousands of years we will be able to break the laws of physics. But i won't buy that an advanced race broke not only one law of physics to be able to teleport and not displace air, but they also went ahead and broke another law of physics for the simple reason that they wanted to be caught on camera.


Cat mops are a patent.
Good chat.

I'll try again.

500,000 years ago, fish we're floating in the air. 100 million years ago, dinosaurs weren't walking through walls. 500 million years ago, the earliest life forms weren't teleporting about.

Try to discuss this without falling back on 'advanced tech', because that's the same line of reasoning that Bible Bashers use when discussing the existence of God; they always fall back on "God has a plan/is everywhere/can do anything". It isn't a counter-point, it's the intellectual equivalent of saying "Look over there!" and running away.

So lets say we agree, that X is possible in the future, yeah?

Now, with that in mind, that X is possible in the future, does it stand-up to scrutiny and logic that an advanced race would go to the trouble of working out how to create an ethereal craft, as in, it doesn't interact with the surroundings, and then go ahead and create an even more complicated craft that can A) not displace air and B) be a solid enough object that light refracts off of it, allowing us dumb idiots with our primitive capture technology, the ability to film it. You can have all the advanced tech in the universe, it doesn't stand to reason that you would make a craft more complicated than it had to be, just so it could be filmed by the race/planet that you're observing/spying on.

And that's fine that it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, not everything is going to. And i believe this is where the UFO/Alien community falls down; they believe too much. Some things will pass the bullshit test, others will not and some will be down to interpretation and discussion. But falling over backwards to explain things away using "advanced technology" doesn't give us answers to any of the questions that really need asking.

Youte not getting what I'm saying. Tech built on actual compete physics. I get that we have our modern concept of physics and they are laws that most everything follows, but even physicists will tell you its incomplete. So, based on that, how can you conclude what a future technology is capable of with an actual complete physics understanding and maybe thousand or millions of years ahead of in tech?

 

[Romulus]

I'm not buying the possibility that these things that have been observed by experienced military personnel (such as the tic tac that was observed by commander Fravor) are tech from another nation on earth.

The tech is so advanced to anything we know of at the moment that it's just nonsensical to think some other nation could have developed it and kept it totally secret.

When a powerful nation develops new tech that gives it the one up over its rivals, it doesn't keep it a total secret. It's like a dick waving competition. They want their rivals to know they have superior tech as a warning.

I'm not outright saying it's alien tech, but it damn well isn't something made on Earth by a foreign power.

The funny thing about it to me is the pilots of these vehicles normally don"t even care that we pick them up on radar. It's like they understand their technology is too far ahead for radar to even matter. Lol

 

[Alright]

Youte not getting what I'm saying. Tech built on actual compete physics. I get that we have our modern concept of physics and they are laws that most everything follows, but even physicists will tell you its incomplete. So, based on that, how can you conclude what a future technology is capable of with an actual complete physics understanding and maybe thousand or millions of years ahead of in tech?

I agree with all of that. Who knows what the future holds?

That doesn't explain why a craft that doesn't affect the surroundings in any way shape or form, is able to be detected using the electromagnetic spectrum (light, RADAR). And saying it's advanced tech ignores the basics of; either the craft is a solid object and interacts with its' surroundings, or it's not a solid object and thus cannot be seen, nor detected by RADAR - which works by receiving signals bouncing off of a solid object.

 

[Romulus]

I agree with all of that. Who knows what the future holds?

That doesn't explain why a craft that doesn't affect the surroundings in any way shape or form, is able to be detected using the electromagnetic spectrum (light, RADAR). And saying it's advanced tech ignores the basics of; either the craft is a solid object and interacts with its' surroundings, or it's not a solid object and thus cannot be seen, nor detected by RADAR - which works by receiving signals bouncing off of a solid object.

I understand. The law of motion suggests that everything(including air) will remain at rest until affected by another force. Something like that correct? So essentially the trees and everything should be disturbed. I just can help but think that is a general rule and can be bent.

 

[Romulus]

What the common person knows is 20 years behind what the military has. So if one military is ahead by 10 years, then the tech is 30 years in to the future. With how quick the common person has seen things change in 30 years (in 1991 British TV only had 4 channels) the leap/change can be daunting to think about.

Combine that with how advanced the Chinese were/are and how advanced the Russians are in terms of flight, and how secretive both these groups are, i wouldn't be at all surprised if they were responsible. I saw their latest MiG (29? iirc) about 10 years ago, and the manoeuvres that it was pulling were unbelievable. So unbelievable were the manoeuvres that the crash team scrambled as they (and everyone else) thought it had gone in to a flat spin. It was just the pilot showing off.

Though i disagree entirely about foreign nations showing off tech. There are unbelievable lengths that some militaries go to, in order to protect even some of the most mundane advancements.

Then there are aircraft that we know about, that have top secret, secrets on them. The B2 stealth for example.

Other nations must be extremely far ahead of us then. We came out of the closet using our super sheath 'advanced' tech(but incredibly slow)in 1991 gulf war then suddenly 12 years later "China" is going thousands of mph in a sec, underwater drones, breaking our on laws of physics with no sonic booms etc? And then we have to dismiss the hundreds of reports from WW2 of hypersonic drones fucking with pilots from all over the world apparently telling the same lies for some odd reason. Secret nazi tech that they didn't use? Lol

 

[Alright]

I understand. The law of motion suggests that everything(including air) will remain at rest until affected by another force. Something like that correct? So essentially the trees and everything should be disturbed. I just can help but think that is a general rule and can be bent.

That's right. The water should react to the craft pulling crazy G and speed. Now it's entirely possible that (for the sake of simplicity) that the craft exists in a different dimension or plane of physics. I could buy that, and that could be the reason why nothing is affect by the craft. But then it wouldnt be detected by human eye, camera or RADAR.

The big conspiracy, in my eyes, started in 2016 when Trump got in to power. I'm not making this political, i just saw a shift from conspiracy meaning cool alien accounts, JFk getting shot, man on the moon, ancient civilisations etc, to everything being planted and political. More 'UFO' vids than ever before with more 'official' backing than ever before. Hell, we even had Podesta (HRC's) right hand man make an appearance on 'Ancient Aliens' to say that there was evidence that aliens are here. But when most people say Podesta, they link him to some peado pizzeria.

If for decades there has been a cover-up of aliens, why be so open about it now? If Roswell etc were all staged as part of a bigger plan, why be so open about it now?

The conspiracy has become a conspiracy to misdirect those who really were looking in to the big conspiracies, like Aliens and UFOs.

I may sound like i don't believe, I do, i just don't believe everything i see because i don't trust or believe 99% of what is released nowadays. It's almost as if the information is released to a pre-conceived notion of what a conspiracy theorist and anti-conspiracy theorist is, rather than it being a genuine and natural sharing of information. If that makes sense?

Other nations must be extremely far ahead of us then. We came out of the closet using our super sheath 'advanced' tech(but incredibly slow)in 1991 gulf war then suddenly 12 years later "China" is going thousands of mph in a sec, underwater drones, breaking our on laws of physics with no sonic booms etc? And then we have to dismiss the hundreds of reports from WW2 of hypersonic drones fucking with pilots from all over the world apparently telling the same lies for some odd reason. Secret nazi tech that they didn't use? Lol

You're basing that line of reasoning on your military being 'behind'.

I could wiki and google a lot of American military tech, including some supposed black-book projects. I can't say the same about China or Russia.

Another example, look at space flight. There was a big hoo-har in the 60's, then nothing for 60 years. Now though? Every man and his dog is planning a flight to mars next year, even countries that have never mentioned space:

NASA
Spacex (Musk)
British + European Space Agency
India
Middle east (!!!!!)
China
Russia

That makes my spidey-sense tingle more than those videos. Da Fuq is the rush to get to Mars all of a sudden, when all but 1 or 2 of those above, have even been on the moon.

 

[Zippitydodaday]

I love this thread! I can’t wait until July to see what happens and which way this thread will turn.

 

[Romulus]

That's right. The water should react to the craft pulling crazy G and speed. Now it's entirely possible that (for the sake of simplicity) that the craft exists in a different dimension or plane of physics. I could buy that, and that could be the reason why nothing is affect by the craft. But then it wouldnt be detected by human eye, camera or RADAR.

The big conspiracy, in my eyes, started in 2016 when Trump got in to power. I'm not making this political, i just saw a shift from conspiracy meaning cool alien accounts, JFk getting shot, man on the moon, ancient civilisations etc, to everything being planted and political. More 'UFO' vids than ever before with more 'official' backing than ever before. Hell, we even had Podesta (HRC's) right hand man make an appearance on 'Ancient Aliens' to say that there was evidence that aliens are here. But when most people say Podesta, they link him to some peado pizzeria.

If for decades there has been a cover-up of aliens, why be so open about it now? If Roswell etc were all staged as part of a bigger plan, why be so open about it now?

The conspiracy has become a conspiracy to misdirect those who really were looking in to the big conspiracies, like Aliens and UFOs.

I may sound like i don't believe, I do, i just don't believe everything i see because i don't trust or believe 99% of what is released nowadays. It's almost as if the information is released to a pre-conceived notion of what a conspiracy theorist and anti-conspiracy theorist is, rather than it being a genuine and natural sharing of information. If that makes sense?

Hm. Maybe they're parallel universe humans or something else that can literally navigate these universes somehow. For me, I just see a huge trail of consistency of trained observer reports and radar behavior, not so much speed but yes that always in tandem with similar craft shapes from all over the world for 80+ years. The reports are almost always the same from fighter pilots. Nearly every major power in the world has secret agencies that study them, Russia, UK, US, Iran, and Japan have all admitted to it.

 

[Alright]

Hm. Maybe they're parallel universe humans or something else that can literally navigate these universes somehow. For me, I just see a huge trail of consistency of trained observer reports and radar behavior, not so much speed but yes that always in tandem with similar craft shapes from all over the world for 80+ years. The reports are almost always the same from fighter pilots. Nearly every major power in the world has secret agencies that study them, Russia, UK, US, Iran, and Japan have all admitted to it.

I'm on board with all of that. There is consistency in the shape of the craft. The strange bit is, the Nazis, yanks, Brits and probably the Russians, all experimented with 'saucer shaped' craft during and after WW2, and it turns out its one of the worst shapes a flying vehicle can be.

Yet all the UFO's are that saucer shape. It makes you wonder if that shape works best for space travel.

What's your take on Roswell?

 

[Alright]

I love this thread! I can’t wait until July to see what happens and which way this thread will turn.

July?

 

[Romulus]

I'm on board with all of that. There is consistency in the shape of the craft. The strange bit is, the Nazis, yanks, Brits and probably the Russians, all experimented with 'saucer shaped' craft during and after WW2, and it turns out its one of the worst shapes a flying vehicle can be.

Yet all the UFO's are that saucer shape. It makes you wonder if that shape works best for space travel.

What's your take on Roswell?

There are 4 main craft spotted by pilots. Saucer, orbs, tictac, and cigar shapes. Maybe we tried to copy the saucer design because it always seemed more tangible because it was metallic in shape. The orbs and cigars are fucking weird because they seem to be made of energy. I don't think we could duplicate that, especially in WW2. Those were by far the most reported in the war. No idea what they could be but at this point it's hard to explain it as secret tech.

 

[Alright]

There are 4 main craft spotted by pilots. Saucer, orbs, tictac, and cigar shapes. Maybe we tried to copy the saucer design because it always seemed more tangible because it was metallic in shape. The orbs and cigars are fucking weird because they seem to be made of energy. I don't think we could duplicate that, especially seeing them often on WW2. Those were by far the most reported in the war.

The orbs and Cigars are the ones in those 16th century paintings as well aren't they? And that painting that supposedly depicts a battle in the skies. Is it hamburg? Germany/Austria?

 

[Romulus]

The orbs and Cigars are the ones in those 16th century paintings as well aren't they? And that painting that supposedly depicts a battle in the skies. Is it hamburg? Germany/Austria?

Yes same. That's the consistency I'm talking about. Theres literally paintings and murals going back hundreds of years with cultures all of the world showcasing those shapes as aerial vehicles. I usually throw out that element as "evidence" but, it's significant to consider when we literally have objects like that on film now blasting through the sky and we can't explain it.