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[metalslimer]

Hey well at the worst most developers seem to be going with 1080p even with graphical showpieces like The Division. That's impressive to me and a lot of people who claimed 720p would still be the standard (including me) have to eat crow there. If the worst we get is 1080p 30FPS I'll be happy. 4K is a LONG way away though on consoles.

 

[kortez320]

Developer in 2013 porting a 7th-gen game to PS4:
"1080p60 is great, let's do it!"

Developer in 2015 building a new game for PS4:
"1080p60 is great! You know what's also great? STENCIL SHADOWS!*"

*I can dream, right?


A performance spike that drops 10-20 at 30fps would drop 20-40 at 60fps. Which isn't as bad as the former case, but it still totally sucks.

It really doesn't matter if it's a drop from 30 or 60. I guess you can argue that a drop is more playable from 60 but either way it introduces stuttering and input lag with vsync.

Both really suck. Even on PC I will drop my frames to 30 locked if I cannot lock the game at 60. Only exception really is Planetside 2 because that shit is impossible to lock at 60 and it doesn't stutter as bad as some games. Crysis 3 on the other hand I could average about 50 but it was a stuttering mess so I had to lock it at 30.

So yeah with that said I really really hope that these devs making all this noise about 60 frames really mean 60 frames.

 

[camac002]

What about unlocked frame rates using triple buffering eg. God Of War 3? Cerny said they worked on reducing the controller latency and with the extra memory of the PS4, shouldn't this technique become more widely used? GoW3 and GoW:A feel smooth with average frame rate of 40ish with no tearing.

 

[SapientWolf]

My old laptop gets a frequent 60 FPS in some games, but occasionally when just playing normally the FPS suddenly drops to 40-55 FPS, causing the whole game to jerk, which is horribly annoying, even more so when coming from a game that was running buttery smooth.

It's probably running out of video memory and stuttering. If a game struggles to stay at 60 on the consoles devs usually drop it down to 30 anyway.

 

[kortez320]

What about unlocked frame rates using triple buffering eg. God Of War 3? Cerny said they worked on reducing the controller latency and with the extra memory of the PS4, shouldn't this technique become more widely used? GoW3 and GoW:A feel smooth with average frame rate of 40ish with no tearing.

Triple buffering in and of itself introduces input lag.

For cinematic non competitive games though it should definitely be used IMO.

 

[Portugeezer]

60 fps will NOT stick around long. It mostly seems to be cross gen games with 360/PS3 assets that are using the extra power to push 60fps. As soon as games and assets start being built for XB1/PS4 we'll go back down to regular 30fps to get stronger visuals to put on the box.

Halo 5 and Titanfall are some pretty big next gen games which will be 60fps.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Battlefied 4 on PS4 is 1080p/60fps......dunno if the Xbone version is 1080p or 720p or somewhere in between perhaps?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490279133496/1/

 

[belmonkey]

Triple buffering in and of itself introduces input lag.

For cinematic non competitive games though it should definitely be used IMO.

It does? Does that play any part in the input lag in something like BF3 or Skyrim when locked at 30 FPS?

 

[kick51]

I don't like how much this is being said, very disappointing.

Um, that's the reality of hardware. It doesn't magically support 60fps. One way or another, sacrifices are made for 60fps. Maybe less effects, lower res textures, less AA. You can always push hardware harder with more impressive stuff, but you'll take a hit in framerate, possibly resolution. So once devs start getting into a graphics arms race, which has been going on since video games were invented, we'll see less 60fps.

I agree though, it's disappointing that they push graphics over frame rate in a lot of genres. Playability is more important than graphics. People say no one notices 60fps, but even casuals acknowledge how "smooth" COD is. Now, if it's some Quantic Dream game, 30fps is fine, since gameplay is very minimal in those games.

 

[Canis lupus]

Yep, unreal to people who were saying 6 months ago 1080p@60fps would be a pipedream nextgen.

 

[Portugeezer]

Battlefied 4 on PS4 is 1080p/60fps......dunno if the Xbone version is 1080p or 720p or somewhere in between perhaps?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490279133496/1/

That is old and in no ways confirms the resolution of BF4 on any console.

PS4 is more powerful so maybe it will have better graphics rather than higher resolution? Will be interesting.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Why aren't the PS4 exclusives running at 1080p/60fps?

 

[Sulik2]

I care about image quality far more than 60FPS. It will be nice while it lasts but give me 30FPS late in the gen any day of the week to avoid the horrific jaggies and screen tearing in this gen.

 

[Durante]

How many games designed from the start for next-gen systems only are 1080p/60? In genres which were not 60 FPS on current-gen systems?

For now, this jsut seems to be a result of cross-generational development.

Why aren't the PS4 exclusives running at 1080p/60fps?

Because they aren't designed to run on 7 year old hardware.

 

[qa_engineer]

Battlefied 4 on PS4 is 1080p/60fps......dunno if the Xbone version is 1080p or 720p or somewhere in between perhaps?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490279133496/1/

Take a look at my conspiracy theory

Not sure if anyone noticed this, but if youtube promotion videos are any indication as to the native rendering resolution for a game then one could deduce that some of MS titles are going to be 720p. I could be wrong, but this is just my observation.

For example:

Forza was confirmed as a 1080p 60fps title and therefore its Youtube gameplay video on the official xbox channel is 1080p.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYTx9DFWMSI

Official Dead Rising Video from Xbox Channel (1080p):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLPKIW81wNA


Official Quantum Break video from xbox channel (1080p):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0KzBVewfEg

If the assumption that most games shown at E3 are at least 1080p, then one would assume that the marketing team would scale all of their promo videos to that resolution. right? Why would they downscale the resolution of a promo video for a 1080p game to 720p?

The official gameplay for Ryse on the Xbox channel (720p)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MfYuP6L44k


Official Titan Fall video on Xbox Channel (720p)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnOxE4i1-XA



BF4
Official Battlefield 4 video on Xbox Channel (720P)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh2RDZgyBc8

VS.

here is the Official BF4 reveal gameplay video "Fishing in Baku" on PC (1080p)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U


Are my claims plausible or am I missing something? And I'm not saying MS or any developers promised 1080p and didnt deliver the goods. I just want to see if there is a correlation between the resolution of official promo videos and native rendering resolution of the game. Please note that I did not use 3rd party sourced videos from IGN, Gamespot, etc. which all seemed to be down sampled by default. These are ALL official promo videos on the Xbox Channel

 

[JCizzle]

It will be a test to see how far below 60 the framerate drops in heavy action when you're not staring at a wall. I am a bit skeptical at this point, but time will tell.

 

[Boco_Jones]

These are the launch games too. Imagine four or five years from now.

Four to five years from now they'll be pushing the hardware a lot more. Meaning 30fps for more detail and effects.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Halo 5 is a long way out and a true next-gen X1 game and it's confirmed 60 fps.


I'm just so happy 1080p has become the standard, that's all I wanted. Don't care about 60 fps, looks fake and unrealistic to my eyes unless it's a sports game or fighting game which are all 60 anyway.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Because they aren't designed to run on 7 year old hardware.

I thought this type of talk was beyond GAF.

 

[Acheteedo]

I don't like how much this is being said, very disappointing.

I'm as pessimistic as the next guy but it's a baseless claim. Look at the resolution and framerates from the start of this gen, most were sub-HD and a lot of them struggled to keep up performance. It took a long time for native 720p to become common, and framerates are now often very solid.

 

[revolverjgw]

It's such a pleasant surprise. Hopefully the audience gets conditioned to expect 60fps so devs keep that a priority later in the gen.

 

[kick51]

I thought this type of talk was beyond GAF.

The type of talk that uses facts? well, maybe you are right lol

He's saying that a lot of these 60fps games are cross gen-- they might have improvements, but they were still designed for PS3/360 aka 7 year old hardware.

Seems like there will be a lot of broken hearts when games start taking advantage of the hardware.

 

[grumble]

Frankly I doubt it will be a standard. 1080p for most titles, 60fps for some racers, fighting games and occasional big-selling shooters, and 30fps for everything else. The xbox will go 30fps (or less) more often, and sub-1080p as it's significantly weaker.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

The type of talk that uses facts? well, maybe you are right lol

He's saying that a lot of these 60fps games are cross gen-- they might have improvements, but they were still designed for PS3/360 aka 7 year old hardware.

Seems like there will be a lot of broken hearts when games start taking advantage of the hardware.

I was talking about PS4 exclusives. I don't see how those are designed for 6-7 year old hardware.

 

[Stallion Free]

I thought this type of talk was beyond GAF.

Where is a list the same size of next-gen exclusives that run at 60?

 

[kick51]

I was talking about PS4 exclusives. I don't see how those are designed for 6-7 year old hardware.

maybe you should read his post a few more times

Because they aren't designed to run on 7 year old hardware.

 

[Shambles]

I figured we'd get stuff @ 1080p (or less) and 30fps, but with better graphics than this gen. However, all these 1080p/60fps announcement are changing my expectations. I didn't think we'd reach this level of graphics and I certainly didn't think launch games (and the 2014 games) would have it.

I'm actually having a hard time gaming on my ps3 after I saw all those titles on E3.

Finally our dreams from 2006 are coming to pass!

 

[dragonfart28]

1080p, 60fps and they still look underwhelming.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

1080p, 60fps and they still look underwhelming.

Says you, a huge Nintendo fan that likes to downplay next-gen visuals. There's plenty of next-gen games shown that deserve said moniker, plenty that people were wow'ed by over the past couple of days.

 

[kortez320]

It does? Does that play any part in the input lag in something like BF3 or Skyrim when locked at 30 FPS?

Yes and vsync if the game has it causes extra input lag as well.

 

[dragonfart28]

Says you, a huge Nintendo fan that likes to downplay next-gen visuals.

Just listening to the Day One Giantbombcast and the same dudes that are critical of Nintendo are also expressing a general ambivalence to next gen visuals.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

EDIT: I meant primarily spending money on an expensive GPU

exactly I JUST ordered a GPU that was 59 dollars more than the cost of a PS4 last week..

I still preordered a PS4 though, c'mon why not?

 

[Odrion]

Just listening to the Day One Giantbombcast and the same dudes that are critical of Nintendo are also expressing a general ambivalence to next gen visuals.

To be fair they've all been playing PC games these days.

 

[SapientWolf]

I'm as pessimistic as the next guy but it's a baseless claim. Look at the resolution and framerates from the start of this gen, most were sub-HD and a lot of them struggled to keep up performance. It took a long time for native 720p to become common, and framerates are now often very solid.

Just the opposite, if anything.

 

[Fularu]

I'll believe it when I see it

So far I would say it's highly unlikely

 

[Wind's Howling]

1080p should always be the standard for next-gen. I would not mind if some games have 30fps, as long as it has a steady framerate.

 

[Magnus]

Aren't these systems like an order of magnitude more powerful than their 8 year old predecessors?

I dunno; this doesn't blow me away. I mean, I think I expected 1080p/stable 60fps from this gen from the outset.

 

[petran79]

we are 5 month+ away from the beginning of the new console generation where the new consoles are about on par to today's mid range gaming PCs specs-wise, so not surprisingly their capabilities are very similar. But that will change, next year GPUs will have GDDR6, DDR4 will replace DDR3, and the difference will get bigger and bigger every year. 1440p displays are already not that expensive (and many PC games already support it), and 2160p (4k) will only come down in price .

Besides right now you can play Far Cry 3, BF3, Metro Last Light, etc in 1080p/60fps on PCs, can PS4 do that? not unless they remade these games for PS4 (and you have to pay for them again, ie a "Ultra HD" edition).

PCs also support multimonitor.
I hope you will not have to buy 3 Xboxes and 3 games for that

 

[edotlee]

Since I can't create a thread yet...

There's a new contender for the first person shooter crown - Respawn's Titanfall. The same core team that wrote the book on ultra-fast, responsive FPS gameplay has once again embraced 60Hz gameplay for the debut of its new franchise.

Bearing in mind the Respawn tech team's experience in repurposing an existing technology into something all-new and ultra-competitive (see Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare), it's a good place to start. The game looked seriously impressive at its E3 reveal, but there was a curious shimmer about it - perhaps suggesting that the price for all that action at the extreme frame-rate is sub-native resolution, so not true 1080p60 per se.

With regards 343 Industries and the next-gen Halo, the move to 60fps is a genuine shock bearing in mind that the series has always stood apart from the COD vs. Battlefield ruckus...And when you consider the Halo proposition - the flexibility of its engine in handling both interior and vast exterior environments, the array of units in play at any given point and the advanced AI that drives them - support for 60fps gameplay is a statement of serious ambition from 343.

It's a given that Forza Motorsport 5 from Turn 10 will deliver the goods (though curiously all of its on-screen presence at the Microsoft event appeared to be running at half frame-rate - even the cockpit view footage), and perhaps not surprisingly for a one-on-one fighter, Killer Instinct also hits a locked 60fps...Perhaps most exciting of all has been the comment from Hideo Kojima that Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain is targeting 60fps for the next-gen console versions of the game.

Elsewhere, on the E3 showfloor, Assassin's Creed 4's multiplayer mode appears to be working at something approaching 60fps (albeit with some distracting freezing) and there's even a full frame-rate Killzone: Shadow Fall trailer floating around the internet. In both cases, we wonder if the games are simply running with unlocked frame-rates. Certainly, having examined the Guerrilla asset on a frame-by-frame level, performance is highly variable and during our E3 demo session, the code even had some issues sustaining 30fps - a disappointment after the flawless presentation at the February PlayStation Meeting. As for AC4, the game appeared to be operating at a smooth 30fps when we checked out the PS4 version running the single-player demo previously seen at the Sony conference. "Curiously, key 60fps titles like Forza Motorsport 5 and Killer Instinct were represented with 30fps trailers during the Microsoft conference."

Remarkably, the main Killer Instinct trailer at the MS conference only ran at a lukewarm 30fps, meaning our only glimpse of the game running at full frame-rate came from this rather awkward live gameplay session. We recommend Google Chrome for smoothest playback of this video.

We're also concerned somewhat by the actual lack of genuine console code showing up at E3 - Microsoft and EA couldn't show us Battlefield 4 on Xbox One at the conference, even though we are mere months away from its release. This is something that's a genuine cause for concern bearing in mind the insane levels of optimisation required for a true, locked 60fps experience. 343's next-gen Halo teaser wasn't running in real-time, and it was actually running at 30fps too, despite almost certainly being an offline render. Elsewhere, Crytek's Ryse, which is running in real-time on One hardware, seems to be targeting 30fps and clearly has genuine performance issues at this time.

Many of the games due this year apparently targeting 60fps on next-gen console will also have Xbox 360 and PS3 counterparts - a necessity in making megabucks AAA games financially viable in a period of transition. Supporting seven-year-old hardware clearly limits the scope of the game as a whole, making full frame-rate gameplay on next-gen console easier to attain. Our concern is that once the need to support weaker hardware evaporates, the drive towards more complex visuals could result in 30fps once again becoming the accepted standard for console gameplay. That seems to be the approaching we're seeing from Sony's first-party PS4 titles, based on their E3 showings.

The drive towards visual accomplishment at the expense of a super-smooth refresh will simply continue elsewhere - in the likes of franchises such as Killzone and Destiny for example. For the purist looking to enjoy ultra high resolutions and sky-high performance with zero compromise, the choice remains the same as it always has been - go for PC, where the gameplay experience can be tailored to your exact specifications, and to the size of your wallet.

In Theory: Can next-gen fulfill the 1080p60 dream?


Great read as usual from Digital Foundry.