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[tazz3]

Theynshould remake this game for the ps4 for the tenth anniversary

 

[Circle Jerk]

That guy in the 04 threwd just dropping in that he can't watch black porn for seemingly no reason.... what a weird reaction to what eneded up being a great game.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I did enjoyed a lot to play as CJ. It was a great character and possibly the best GTA experience I've had overall (played all of them).

Also if I remember correctly CJ did not like to use drugs, and that was pretty clear (not sure about marijuana though)! That was cool to be presented on the videogame, specially on GTA! =)

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

People had issues with CJ because he was black. I don't know why anyone is acting oblivious to the fact. I remember all the nonsense I was reading online. It sickened me. The worst was the "can't relate" argument.

Replace black with woman and the same shit happens when people talk about games with female protagonists.

 

[MrCunningham]

I still remember when retailers were relabeling the game "AO" because of the hot coffee controversy and sales spiked through the roof because of it. It was free advertising for Rockstar.

As for the game, I loved the setting and theme, and I think Rockstar nailed that early90's West coast gangsta aesthetic. But I never really did get into this one as much as I did for GTA: VC.

Plus the original TV trailer was beyond hype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOzcbtsw_pQ "Welcome to the jungle baby...you gonna die!"

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Fat CJ was the best CJ. Ride that bike fatman.

Fat CJ on a BMX was maybe #1... but I think blonde hair/ripped Simon Phoenix (Demolition Man) CJ was a contender.

That was one of the best parts of SA, really. V made some pretty good improvements over the horrible lack of customization in IV... I mean, bearded characters in V are pretty good changes, too. Bald/bearded Michael a la Max Payne 3 totally changes the story cutscenes. And bearded Rick Ross Franklin is pretty funny... and I can't even associate default Trevor with GTA V anymore... the only Trevor I can even see is long beard Trevor.

But the way SA handled it was more much immersive and personal. When I customize characters in V it still sort of feels like I'm just changing a third-person cast. SA really nailed the 'growing your avatar' atmosphere. It helped that you actually had to go to the gym, eat, etc.

I don't remember direct references to skin color (not saying there weren't, just that I don't remember them) but there was a lot of complaints about not being able to relate to the main character. Which is silly considering the past two games had you control Mafia members. Same type of complaints popped up with Franklin, just with extra sprinkles of "we already went through this lifestyle, why do it again?"

Haha yeah as if the average gamer can really relate to Tommy Vercetti more. That said, I think "relate" is the wrong word... I think maybe associate or aspire is better. And, I can sort of understand. I mean, GTA is a lot like a RPG and people want a character that they want to envision themselves as. The same reason someone may not want a female lead in GTA is the same reason they may never play Femshep in Mass Effect or a MMORPG, I suppose. Or the same reason maybe they choose any particular race in an RPG. I think it's natural in an RPG, where you're creating a character, to have a certain preference. I don't think it's about being able to relate, and I think the popularity of CJ shows that. Femshep shows that, too.

It's tricky because on one hand, GTA or Mass Effect are dramas, basically. There's no good reason why most folks can't enjoy a drama about a great character of any race or gender... I think lots of games show that. But there is a RPG element to both games, too, and I think it's natural that many people like to play a certain type of character. There can be a lot of reasons. Maybe some people like to play their own race or own gender. Some like to play female characters ("if I'm going to spend 1000 hours grinding in a MMO, I might as well stare at a pretty avatar). Heck, when I played MMOs I almost exclusively played orcs or monster characters, or maybe dwarfs, because I thought they were better for role-playing. I sure as hell can't relate to being an orc so I think "relate" is the wrong word. But when I feel 'inspiration' to play MMO, I get an idea of a character in my head, and maybe that character I aspire to make is an orc warlord, so I personally want to play as an orc not because I can relate to it but because that's just the RPG character I want to craft. In some ways, I think people view GTA the same way: they want to be immersed in GTA like an RPG so they hope it's a character that fits their personal taste. It's not just about race, either: maybe it's about jobs or trade, they hope it's about a Irish bank robber from Boston, a Latin meth cook in Arizona, anything. I think it's not as simple as relating to race but just a subjective preference in terms of RPG and story. At least, that's really what is at the root of it for most people... I think most people that probably said "relate" before, actually are thinking more along the lines of what I said.

That's one reason I think we saw 3 characters for GTA V. I think Rockstar sees the risk of having such a big epic open world and yet only 1 character. Imagine having a Final Fantasy about just 1 character. I think when you have a larger cast, you have a better chance of having one that everyone likes. I wouldn't be surprised to see future GTAs also have 3 or even more playable characters, maybe even 4-5 and 1-2 can die... or 1-2 are interchangeable, or who knows what else but more ways to give people characters that they like.

It's a careful balance though because 1 static character is easier to craft a story for, and create immersion for, as CJ showed.

 

[Raonak]

My favourite GTA protaganist.

I seriously couldn't relate to the people screaming "I can't relate" because as a east indian, I've yet to play a game as an indian main character.

 

[Mexican Sting]

That's kind of sad, but it'll become more commonplace someday. Hopefully we'll live to see it.

Also, let me add nothing to the conversation by also saying that CJ was my favorite protagonist, and that SA was my favorite GTA. The game was so deep, and CJ had real heart. I also grew up in the Bay Area during the West Coast hip hop boom and it was pretty tight rolling around hearing shit I used to hear on the radio in real life in the game.

 

[Aquavelvaman]

Definitely my favorite GTA protagonist.

 

[Toparaman]

CJ and Johnny (from Lost and Damned) are the best GTA protags.

I hated the way GTA V

Spoiler

unceremoniously killed off Johnny.

 

[Tainted]

CJ and Johnny (from Lost and Damned) are the best GTA protags.

I hated the way GTA V

Spoiler

unceremoniously killed off Johnny.

But what a way to introduce us to

Spoiler

Trevor !

 

[Jawmuncher]

I didn't mind CJ mainly because I could customize him a lot.
It's still amazes me how much more SA has done compared to the newer games.
I really liked how it was almost The Sims in some parts.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I liked him quite a bit, and he seemed like the first main character in a GTA that Rockstar actually took seriously. Claude and Tommy were both pretty boring overall. Claude for obvious reasons and Tommy simply because he was just Tony Montanna. As far as the game goes, it was my favorite in the series until GTAV.

CJ and Johnny (from Lost and Damned) are the best GTA protags.

I hated the way GTA V

Spoiler

unceremoniously killed off Johnny.

I thought that part was great.

Spoiler

There was no better way to show that Trevor was going to be a different type of protagonist than for him to just kill a previous protagonist that was well liked. It's something that caught the player completely off guard if they played TLaD. Great work by Rockstar.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Even in the

Spoiler

C ending

Trevor is going to be as broken (or more) as Johnny.

 

[Toparaman]

But what a way to introduce us to

Spoiler

Trevor !

I hated

Spoiler

Trevor

, and GTA V's writing as a whole. GTA has always been cynical and misanthropic, but V took it to middle-aged curmudgeon levels. Satire doesn't work when it barely represents reality. I hope the next GTA brings some humanity back in.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Haha that was one of the best introductions to any character. GTA V was amazing up through Heist 1 and early solo Trevor. It starts to fall apart more once all the

Spoiler

unexpected FIB

story begins and even more so once it starts to have too many stories going on at the same time. But I loved those early Trevor missions. CJ is probably the most likable GTA character but I think Trevor and Michael are two of the most realized exactly because they take the time to craft out likable and dis-likable traits (Micael's laziness and Trevor's craziness). They're a lot like two-dimensional Kane and Lynch pairing. Michael in a lot of ways is the anti-GTA: his entire story is developing why he doesn't want to be in GTA and how he's going to get out of it. In contrast, if GTA were a character, it'd be Trevor.

Plus, Trevor with a full beard and long hair looks like a mixture of Michael Mann's Montoya (the kingpin) from Miami Vice and Waingro from Heat (they even have the exact same clown tattoo), so that automatically makes him my favorite. Trevor with that long full beard, a brown tan suit, and a gwagen Dubsta or range rover Baller out in the Grand Senora desert is probably my favorite character 'scene' or theme in the entire series. I spent almost all my free roaming as Trevor out in either the Grand Senora or Chiliad/Paleto, doing all-3-character Hangout cop chases, starting gang wars or doing smuggler missions.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Cj had a bitch ass voice and was a fake pussy. I wonder did they mold him after Dr. Dre?

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Disliked the entire theme.
Mafia, etc was much more interesting.

 

[Earthpainting]

I had my reservations early on, fearing that San Andreas was going to feel a little too real and close to home for it to work. Vice City, the only 3D GTA game I played before that, felt more cartoonish at first glance due to the how pop culture painted the 80s aesthetic with camp crime fiction. Most of the exposure I had to the themes and look San Andreas was going for wasn't really tied to fiction in my head sadly enough.

Then the game came out and it turned out that SA was the campiest, funniest entry in the entire series. I don't know if they did that intentionally to offset any unease people may have had with the uglier side of an era that wasn't that long ago, but I massively appreciated it either way. Funny enough, that discomfort would ultimately creep back to me with GTA4 and its more serious tone in the story was a huge turn-off.

About CJ himself, he was not crazy memorable I'm afraid. I think CJ displayed some of the issues I brought up before. He was a relatively serious character in a silly game. Ryder, Big Smoke and even Tenpenny left a much bigger impression. Good game either way. I haven't touched 5 yet, but San Andreas is the bar I measure all GTA games by.

 

[Inuhanyou]

CJ's voice sounded like a normal 90s projects kind of guy to me wha was wrong with it? And disliking the "theme"....let's just call it what it really is shall we folks, no need to dance around your points here like people don't understand.

Its like saying "urban" instead of "black". Yeah we get it.

 

[Night_Trekker]

CJ was the best-written of the GTA protagonists up until that point. Yeah, I enjoyed it.

I didn't enjoy the constant dates and defending territory and exercising, though.

I don't care at all that people didn't want to play as him, and I don't find that offensive.

 

[Zornica]

I didn't play that many gta games, but I genuinely enjoyed SA. I nearly beat it - which I can't say for any other gta game. I never did though because I couldn't get past this one mission in "las vegas" where you had to intercept another plane - and a few weeks later I lost all of my save data... too bad

I can't say I particularly cared for either the story or any of the characters though.

also, what controversy? I guess you're not talking about the hot coffee mod? because that's the only controversial thing I remember about it.

 

[Newline]

I really enjoyed CJ, he was a nuanced character that had more depth than the predicted LA hood gangster.

 

[reminder]

I loved everything about this game*. I've played it every day for nearly 3 years, just to drive/fly around and make some dumb shit.

*except for Zero's missions. Curse you, Berkleeeeeey.

 

[Blueingreen]

You're completely right. A lot to do was made about how huge GTAV's world is and how GTA:SA could fit into it X amount of times, and some such garbage, but even despite that, you are right, GTA:SA's world does feel larger and there is a reason for that: the road design.

GTAV's road design is pretty logical, and there aren't "lost" points of the map... Every part of the map is pretty easy to get to via driving, pretty quickly. now, this is intelligent game design... it cuts down on the amount of pointless driving from A to B and that was a big complaint about GTA:SA... That a lot of the game time is simply spent by the player driving on these long road trips from one corner to another. But, back to GTAV, here is the general map for most of the regions of GTAV.



I've marked with colored stars a bunch of points that the player usually finds himself beginning in. And then with similarly colored arrows I've marked roads that allow the player to get to the further regions of the map very quickly. The one in particular to point out is the Red star in the heart of downtown Los Santos, and then the red arrows pointing to that single road. That road is a 2 - 4 lane road that leads directly out of Downtown Los Santos directly into blaine county, a "remote" part of the world map. If you follow the road, you notice that of course, it jogs to the left when you are in Blaine County and that might take a while to drive around... But, I used the anchor arrow to point to a very obvious off-road portion... you can generally maintain a high speed, and go off-road where that anchor arrow is, and that takes you directly into the Grand Senora Desert where Trevor's air port is, and right into Sandy Shores, where a lot of missions begin for Michael and Trevor. This road alone cuts down what could be a very long drive (say, 5-10 minutes) into maybe 90 seconds (give or take, I could be off here I haven't played in ~6 months).

There are a few other stars that I've highlighted and paths that lead out. The highway design is also very logical so you can get from most parts of Los Santos to other parts of Los Santos and Blaine County in 2 - 3 minutes instead of maybe 20+ minutes. The availability of on ramps and large highways leading in and out and around the map make it very easy to quickly travel many in-game miles.

Now, make no mistake, this is intelligent game design and map layout. It's logical and it would be annoying in today's day and age to have to deal with an illogical road layout. Many of the roads in GTAIV were illogical and ultimately frustrating... When you were in Dukes for those handful of missions after your taxi company is burned down, that area is really isolated, with only 2 highways to get to it and a lot of extra driving... It's annoying (the poor individual road design in GTAIV discouraging high speeds made it worse as well).

But, compare GTAV's larger map with quick road design to GTA:SA's technically smaller map but with a much more trecherous road layout. If you are in Los Santos and you need to get to San Fierro, this is a long drive. Even the most direct route, which involves the freeway that runs the exterior of the map, takes a long time to get to. If you are on Grove Street at CJ's house, you have to travel EAst on the map to get West, and that highway takes you through the industrial district of Los SAntos, all the way around the Airport, through the beaches, near downtown, before that small bridge that takes you into the San Fiero part of the map, and then around that long highway. You could try and cut through the wilderness, but there are a couple of spots that are long climbs up hills that are designed to slow you down and keep you from traveling quickly.

I've highlighted the routes and marked a couple of those spots:



Also, with GTA:SA, the highways were not easy to get onto when you're in downtown Los Santos. If you're in the middle of the city, at ground level, the highways above aren't easily accessible even though you are directly below them. you often times have to drive well out of the way to come back and get on the highway.

now, clearly, this road design is worse for game design, but it has a positive effect... It makes the world of GTA:SA feel that much larger. The mission design does this as well, but especially the road layout. I'll get to that.

This is an excellent post, you nailed it, it's an abstract game design that works to great effect, coupled with the fog, the different theme of each island, it really makes the game feel huge.

It didn't work in GTA 4 which had by far the WORST map not just in the series but arguably in any open world game I ever played, it's just extremely tedious to traverse around especially with the dog sh!t driving physics.

GTA V map is just incredibly boring, like the Burj Khalifa it serves no other purpose but to be a statement of production value, big for the sake of being big. The linear mission structure really doesn't make much use of the space, then again how could you if most of the map is just a rural wasteland, GTA V's greatest aspect is actually it's greatest weakness.