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Am I wrong in thinking Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom lacks drama/excitement/emotion? If so, what the f$%& are we even doing here?!

Astral Dog

Member
Yeah ,well..i get what you are saying ,i vastly prefer the 'traditional' 3D Zelda formula i think the gameplay and narrative are more engaging in that format, Tears of the Kingdom has some annoying / clunky parts that made me drop it

But it is what it is,plenty of players seem to get that emotional response you ask for and loved the game so it depends on the player
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
"What's the formula for excitement?" Isn't it risk + reward = excitement?
Not necessarely. In a puzzle game like Portal for example, there are basically 0 risks. The excitement comes from figuring out a solution for a problem after sitting on it for a while. Then for story driven games, people mostly get excited about a certain development in the plot.
In the case of this zelda and BotW, it mostly comes from figuring out ways of using your "toy box" to engage with the game world.

It really comes down to taste. You clearly seem to prefer this notion of risk&reward for games, where there are well defined meanings for victory and defeat. Its no wonder you like MP games - or maybe its MP games that gave you this kind of taste in the first place.
 
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KungFucius

King Snowflake
I was really enjoying it for about 50 hours but its sorta become a slog now. I ruined myself by playing FFXVI before finishing TOTK so now I really don't care for its story anymore lol. I'll still go back and finish it but ill probably just rush whatever I have left of the main story quest.
honestly I find that every long game becomes a chore at some point and that point tends to be around 40 hours or so. TotK was a bit longer, but still when you are spending more than a work week playing the same game that is enough. I am afraid of Baldur's Gate 3. How the fuck am I supposed to stay engaged for 2 work weeks? Even with the shift in release, I am going to wait on that one until winter because no way I will finish by Starfield, no way I will wait on Starfield until I am finished BG3 and no way I would be able to get back into such a long game after dropping it for a month or so.
 

Sakura

Member
There's no excitement to be had there. There's no stakes. No consequences. Link can die an infinite number of times and the player only has to respawn about 20 seconds back with his/her full loadout. The game gives you a ton of things to do and the order in which you do them means nothing. It kind of reminds me of that scene in The Matrix where Agent Smith tells Neo the first iteration of The Matrix was a utopia but the humans revolted. There are no high points. There are no low points. Nothing is challenging because 8 year old kids need to get through it. There's no tension, no release. The game world holds your hand and removes all the pain points so you can frolic around at your leisure. It's Avatar: The Way of the Water in a world where Whiplash exists. It's Yacht Rock when Punk Rock exists.
I have my own criticisms of the game, but I disagree with your take here. In pretty much all modern games (at least AAA ones) you can die an infinite amount of times. Hell even in older games.
You die, you load from whatever checkpoint you had (which usually isn't that far away) or you just load your save you made beforehand. In Final Fantasy games from almost 30 years ago, you get to a boss which provides a big challenge, etc and if you lose, you load your save from just before and try again. Even in a Souls game, if you die fighting a boss, you just... run back and fight it again.
What exactly are you looking for in terms of "stakes" and "consequences"? You want a longer amount of time to return to where you were when you died?
I don't really think that adds anything to the game. At the end of the day, you still have to overcome whatever you died to.

Yes, the order in which you do things doesn't really matter. But this isn't inherently a bad thing, it is just a matter of preference. Same for the supposed lack of high points. For some people, reaching a dungeon, solving the puzzles and defeating the boss to get a new power might be a high point. For you, I guess not.

Also I would say, in my opinion, this is the most difficult Zelda game to date (aside from the NES titles I guess). It is also probably the least handholdy out of all the 3D Zeldas. Not to imply it is super challenging or anything, but I think it is more challenging than a number of other games out there made for older audiences.
 

Hudo

Member
I'm yet to play TOTK, but I had this problem with BotW. The critical consensus was that it had the best discovery of any game ever, but what I kept discovering was more of the same: more Korok seeds, more Shrines, and more disposable weapons.

It's an interesting game, but one of the most nakedly superficial I can remember. When you break it down, there are two major factors of variance: temperature and set dressing. You could argue that enemies are a third, but honestly, the variety is limited and the strategies don't really vary (presumably to service the open-ended design). You'll soon gather the equipment to mitigate temperature changes and any enemy can be tackled effectively with any weapon. After that, it's really just a case of collectibles and puzzles. Beat Shrines until you're bored; collect Korok seeds until you're bored; fight Ganon when you're fed up of everything else. It's a game of 95% optional side content to be tackled in any order and though it brims with the promise of discovery at the outset, it is ultimately as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle.



It's perfectly a legitimate position to take, but on a gaming forum, people might want to discuss what makes a game work or not work for them. If you're not into that then... I dunno what to tell you.
Good point. I fucked up. Maybe I am just getting jaded due to all the console war threads since the bullshit with Microsoft and the FTC hearings. Discuss away and don't mind me.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Good point. I fucked up. Maybe I am just getting jaded due to all the console war threads since the bullshit with Microsoft and the FTC hearings. Discuss away and don't mind me.
Nobody could blame you, it's getting very intense just lately. Yours is probably the healthiest mindset overall, in fairness :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
I hit 70 hours and I feel like I'm just going to skip the last two temples and go for Ganon.

The building is what took up a lot of that time with me, otherwise it's the exact same fucking early 2010s open world game as BotW.

Side quests are boring, leveling up gear is a resource grind, Shrines are incredibly stale and repetitive (again), combat is basic as fuck. In a sane word it would be sitting between a 75-85 on MC.
 
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Holammer

Member
Coming fresh from BotW I really enjoyed seeing where everyone in the world are a few years later. Rito kids have grown and start to take on responsibilities (a very Japanese theme), what's been happening with Sidon? Even meeting minor characters like Robbie's wife, stuff like that. If you never played BotW or it was long time ago, you might miss this extra dimension. A homecoming effect.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
It’s a good game but too easy and too similar to BotW. Liked the early game the best when resources and hearts/stamina were the most limited, especially when exploring the depths early on. Later on was basically on autopilot. I like BotW better in a lot of ways, had to engage with the core systems properly as you explore the world, nice power curve, more sense of discovery. Totk breaks everything early on with the new systems and reuses too much from the old systems.

I'm still loving my run with it so far, but i agree that TOTK breaks what made BOTW unique. You can basically skip so much of the raw exploration from the base map, just warp to an above island and dive down to the interesting point. In BOTW it felt like you would go on a path/adventure to find locations.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I hit 70 hours and I feel like I'm just going to skip the last two temples and go for Ganon.

Bring plenty of sunny food if you do. If you go early it's 4 waves of enemies followed by 4 harder than normal bosses followed by a 3 phase end boss fight, all of which do gloom damage.

If you don't, there's hours of stuff after the last two temples, it's not necessarily straight to final fight.
 

Hudo

Member
I feel stupid that it took till my 3rd Stone Talon to come up with the idea to use ascend to get on top of them. It makes them trivial. Very cool for the early game.
 
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OP summed it up perfectly. I've never experienced a game that went from 10 to 6 or maybe lower like Zelda: TotK. It's not different from my experience with BotW, except for the novelty factor which pushed me through to the end in the first game.

Breakable weapons aside, the biggest problem with TotK (and BotW) for me is the total lack of challenge and purpose of the game. Hidden chests and secrets that reward you with another useless item or disposable weapon, combat designed for kids or casual gamers, with no challenge, and worst of all, that feeling of hours of your leisure time being wasted on walking and doing nothing fun or nothing that you hadn't done a thousand times before.

The construction system at first seem like a brilliant idea with a lot of potential, but again, it's another feature that has little or zero practical advantage. The most effective mean of transportation is sky diving from the nearest tower. Horses are useless, since you'll need to unmount them in a matter of minutes to fight or explore something, as are most of the contraptions you create.

The shrines offer a bit of creativity and challenge I expect from a good Zelda, but this part is also compromised by the lack of purpose and repetition.

I think it could be a fun game for people that like to experiment freely and create their own challenges, but imo this is just lazy and bad design. The most difficult things to get right in a game, and the most valuable for me, are gameplay balance, with challenge that is imposed and not optional, and good direction.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
ToTK is not the game to play if you want a constantly moving story, huge spectacle, or moment to moment pulse pounding gameplay. It's not designed to be that.

It's designed to be a world you can explore and get lost in freely. If your jam isn't simply wanting to see what's over the next hill, or you don't like the idea of just existing in a beautiful and interesting world, then these games aren't for you.

Personally I've found it a tremendously relaxing and rewarding experience. I've actively avoided the main story quests for hours, just because exploring every corner has been more interesting to me. Similar feel in that way to Elden Ring, which makes sense as that was inspired by BoTW.

You can settle comfortably into these games, and enjoy yourself for hours, just fucking about. It's wonderful.

But the story is also pretty damned good. Better than BoTW, if quite repetitive (but then that's every Zelda plot).
 

soulbait

Member
I felt similar to BOTW, which is why I have not picked this one up yet. I played around 25 hours of BOTW and I felt I was done. I meant to go back to it every now and then, but then another game would grab my attention. Open world sandboxes like this just don't appeal to me.

I would love for another Zelda game to be made like Ocarina of time. My dream is a 3D remake of A Link to the Past, which is my favorite game of all time. Maybe one day it will happen.
 

Hudo

Member
ToTK is not the game to play if you want a constantly moving story, huge spectacle, or moment to moment pulse pounding gameplay. It's not designed to be that.

It's designed to be a world you can explore and get lost in freely. If your jam isn't simply wanting to see what's over the next hill, or you don't like the idea of just existing in a beautiful and interesting world, then these games aren't for you.

Personally I've found it a tremendously relaxing and rewarding experience. I've actively avoided the main story quests for hours, just because exploring every corner has been more interesting to me. Similar feel in that way to Elden Ring, which makes sense as that was inspired by BoTW.

You can settle comfortably into these games, and enjoy yourself for hours, just fucking about. It's wonderful.

But the story is also pretty damned good. Better than BoTW, if quite repetitive (but then that's every Zelda plot).
I concur.
 

LakeOf9

Member
I disagree. It's an amazing story.
That said, it does hit its peak at the end of a very long play time, so I understand why right now you might feel this way, but on the whole I disagree.
 

R6Rider

Gold Member
I like the game but I have the same feeling: it is an incredible sandbox, but I get tired really quickly of messing around if there is no story or some insane biomes to discover. And everything still feels so barebone: I stopped exploring like a mad man because the rewards are almost always bad, and there is not many compeling things to do in the OW.

Also the combat is still absolutely terrible, that doesnt help.
Exactly this.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
I don't really think the POINT of Zelda has ever been to make the player feel like Aragorn or Cloud or something. Zelda is the canvas on which Miyamoto painted his memories of adventuring in the Japanese countryside as a small boy. It's DNA has always been that of a "a normal boy exploring his ordinary world until he's called to something greater," The very name "Link," implies a necessary self-insert component. Link is you, you are Link. Feels a lot like an MMO to me, in that regard. Fuck, even the franchise is called The Legend of Zelda, not Link.

You are the every man. You're the cab driver who got caught in a mob car chase. You're the straight man while all the Swords and sorcery happens around you. You unlock the door while Ganon steps through it. He takes the Triforce while it just comes to Link. I dunno. I haven't played TOTK (or BotW, or TTH, or PH, or ALBW, or ST...) but Zelda, to me, has always felt like The Hobbit until you're two dungeons from the end, then it feels like The Lord of the Rings.
 

StueyDuck

Member
ToTK is not the game to play if you want a constantly moving story, huge spectacle, or moment to moment pulse pounding gameplay. It's not designed to be that.

It's designed to be a world you can explore and get lost in freely. If your jam isn't simply wanting to see what's over the next hill, or you don't like the idea of just existing in a beautiful and interesting world, then these games aren't for you.

Personally I've found it a tremendously relaxing and rewarding experience. I've actively avoided the main story quests for hours, just because exploring every corner has been more interesting to me. Similar feel in that way to Elden Ring, which makes sense as that was inspired by BoTW.

You can settle comfortably into these games, and enjoy yourself for hours, just fucking about. It's wonderful.

But the story is also pretty damned good. Better than BoTW, if quite repetitive (but then that's every Zelda plot).
But Zelda games were exactly what you say BotW/TotK isn't, which is why many people dislike the minecraft mod.

I don't understand where this "Zelda games never had stories" is coming from. After the very original game the franchise has always tried to be "cinematic". Have we forgotten how alttp progresses, OoT was one of the most cinematic games of its generation outside of MGS.

Where is all this revisionist history coming from that Zelda games were all about being mellow and running around empty worlds.
 

Happosai

Hold onto your panties
It’s a good game but too easy and too similar to BotW. Liked the early game the best when resources and hearts/stamina were the most limited, especially when exploring the depths early on. Later on was basically on autopilot. I like BotW better in a lot of ways, had to engage with the core systems properly as you explore the world, nice power curve, more sense of discovery. Totk breaks everything early on with the new systems and reuses too much from the old systems.
Sorta the same I've been noticing. It's a great game for some of the points you highlighted. However, I feel the Legend of Zelda franchise has always distinguished itself by not becoming a series either. This is the first I can remember where you're playing a sequel to a previous game. That alone made me wonder what really took 6-years to do with the results being something with too my similarity to BoTW. They used to score each Zelda game differently and I'm only noticing minor changes to soundtrack but otherwise...it's BoTW +.
 
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lachesis

Member
I understand the criticism. I do hope next iteration of Zelda will introduce entirely new things. I'm sure devs feel the same way. Not sure if Aonuma will be directing the next Zelda - I can definitely see him moving onto more exec position after this, as this game probably took a real toll out of him. Masterpiece this game is, on its creativity and all, taking BOTW's gameplay to next level with new twist - but I think they took things as far as the could. It is a direct sequel, so it's understandable.... but My expectation of next Zelda game is quite different from this game, whatever it may be... and probably won't see it for another 5-6 years.

I love the game dearly and so far and its sheer polish itself just impresses me even more - it's been worth every penny I paid for (bought 2 copies - one for me, and one for my child), but I'm also doing bit by bit. Can't seem to play long time - maybe just an hour or two per session. How many things to do and explore is impressive, but I think the weak reward system is part of the reason that I can't play for long time. x10 arrows? 20 rupees, after spending like an hour? But was that journey not enjoyable? Yes it was definitely fun... and that's really what's keeping me going and savoring it a bit by bit. However, I did feel a bit of fatigue later half of BOTW as well, and I will probably as well.

Thus, it's a long term project for me. It feels like experiencing Ghibli movie. Oftentimes, story itself is pretty straightforward, but all that lovely, subtle details, music etc etc. I can definitely say it's not for everyone who wants over the top excitement - but I like gentle games like this. At certain point of the game, it sometimes reminds me of Animal Crossing too!

On the contrary to many folks here - I thought the game was too hard in the beginning, being killed by a mere bokoblin in one shot! LOL. What a legendary warrior who is so strong (according to Zelda), yet I run away from a bokoblin and eating some dubious food while doing so... haha
 

zweifuss

Member
When will they finally add full voice acting to these games? The grunt noises all the NPCs make while spewing out walls of text is very three generations ago. Other than that I'm still loving this game hundreds of hours in.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
When will they finally add full voice acting to these games? The grunt noises all the NPCs make while spewing out walls of text is very three generations ago. Other than that I'm still loving this game hundreds of hours in.
The writing is godawful, facile and repetitive, you really want all that text to be fully voiced? I’d prefer an option to turn off interactions with NPCs entirely instead of having to skip each bit of text thousands of times.
 

MiguelItUp

Member
It's a huge sandbox game with great gameplay, i don't need 10 hours of drama, trivial talking and 20 plot twists.
Exactly. Basically how I felt about it. Though I'll admit I was impressed with how good/decent the story was at all. But you know Nintendo, especially Zelda games, it's a pretty basic story with beats placed around it. TotK's story felt like it had a BIT more focus than other Zelda games, but by not much.

Because the game is a huge sandbox the excitement, stakes, and consequences are all on the player. As lame as that sounds, that's kind of the case. You can play the game as safe as you want to in most cases. Sure you'll just die and respawn. But this isn't some kind of game with BR/hardcore mechanics or something, lol. It's a Zelda game.

I initially didn't care for BotW when I first played it, but the game clicked finally, and I beat it. Then I jumped directly into TotK. It made me appreciate the game more than I would've if I hadn't played BotW I'm sure. It of course carries a TON of similarities, I mean, within the first few hours it looks and feels like the same game in a LOT of ways. But the more you play the more it feels quite a bit different. Is it a safe sequel? I'd say so. But I still think the stuff that it did add is actually really neat, especially in a sandbox that people clearly love a lot.
 
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Variahunter

Member
This is what happens when rating popular game with a score system, it might not be for everyone but somehow it sets a high expectation for that everyone, I believe for people who like physic based sandbox style video game, ToTK probably is the best game ever made. Its a very unique game, when think about it the only game I can think of that are close in terms of this genre might be Human Fall Flat (which in a sense is also a physic based sandbox game), but ToTK definitely had better quality compare to that game. The reason I don't compare ToTK to games such as AC, Far Cry or The Witcher is because they might share the name "open world" but their aesthetic is vastly different its orange to apple
So unique that it looks exactly like BotW...

TokT is just an expansion. It's better than BotW, but most of its problems were not adressed.

One day, we might have the real Zelda everybody has been waiting for, a mix between the old (items, good dungeons, real feeling of progression, progressive exploration with great rewards) and new (freedom, physics, giant overworld, great puzzles) formula.

But not with TokT.
 

Gambit2483

Member
So you played 16hrs, saw maybe 15% of the story and now claim the story lacks emotion, excitement and drama...🤨

oGXXvLJ.gif
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I am playing on Yuzu at 4K/60. My experience is likely a rather superior one than the usual Switch version. Lot's of fun.

Its a great game, but I hate the combat for the simple fact that there is no dodge button. It's not a souls game, I get it, but it's infuriating to be in the middle of attack and not be able to dodge out of it without relying on a weird auto targatting system. that works OK.

It also drives me batshit crazy how when I get forced to fight into tight corridors how Link will start climbing.

Also...this is just me I am sure, but I honestly think there are just too many damn gadgets. There is not a game I have played more where I am constantly pressing the wrong buttons. Switching between swords and bows got old.

Yes, it's playable, but I am very annoyed with that aspect.
 

tkscz

Member
I walk around art museums looking at the pictures hanging on walls thinking "Does this actually move people on an emotional level? Or is it just weird people faking it so their friends think they're deep?"

My timeline with Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom...

Hours 1 - 10: Engaged, moderately interested.
Hours 11 - 15: Is this it?
Hour 16: I'm done. Starting to feel like a chore to play.

On the one hand, the game is impressive. The art is pretty to look at. The sounds are nice. It has a level of polish and refinement you don't get from too many other developers. And yet, the longer I played it the more I felt I was in an art museum looking at a picture of a tree in a field with a lone apple on its branches. Like...who gives a #$%*?

There's no excitement to be had there. There's no stakes. No consequences. Link can die an infinite number of times and the player only has to respawn about 20 seconds back with his/her full loadout. The game gives you a ton of things to do and the order in which you do them means nothing. It kind of reminds me of that scene in The Matrix where Agent Smith tells Neo the first iteration of The Matrix was a utopia but the humans revolted. There are no high points. There are no low points. Nothing is challenging because 8 year old kids need to get through it. There's no tension, no release. The game world holds your hand and removes all the pain points so you can frolic around at your leisure. It's Avatar: The Way of the Water in a world where Whiplash exists. It's Yacht Rock when Punk Rock exists.




I've watched a number of glowing reviews about Tears of the Kingdom and they're all accurate in terms of specifics but they ignore the fundamental emotion that videogames can illicit. Do I have this wrong? Did Zelda TotK have exciting high moments for you? Was there anything about this game that got your heart rate going?

Like I said in the other thread over the story of TotK, it means very little. If just exploring to discover things and messing around to discover those things doesn't excite you, you won't have fun. The plot is very thin and the NPCs don't change even in moments they really should.

Example (spoilers)
Through a story mission, you find out that Zelda had been transformed into the light dragon that flies through the sky. However, when you talk to ANY NPC that wants to help you find what happened to Zelda, you never tell them she turned herself into a dragon, nor does the only other two people in the game who know tell you not to, you just don't. So a bunch of people just don't know, even though Link does.
Also you meet people who know who you are in BotW but treat you like a stranger in TotK with no explanation as to why. They also call what happened in BotW a legend or fairytale, even though it hasn't been more than like a few years between the games story wise.

If you need that extra pizazz from story adding to the world to help fill it out, you're not going to get it here.
 
8/10 for me

It’s a remake of BOTW with some boring areas added and weak reward systems. The new mechanics seemed to break the game rather than make it better, but some people like that sandbox style - just not my thing. I don’t care to spend hours building something that looks cool in a Twitter post.

I can put up with all the stuff I’m not a big fan of, but the biggest disappointment was the dungeons are not an improvement and just have a more visually appealing coat of paint

It’s Zelda so it’s still fun, but would much prefer a 40 hour focused adventure with mature themes, deep dungeons, great item rewards and character progression.
 

spookyfish

Member
it’s all too familiar from BotW. Gameplay systems, world, combat, enemies. There are new enemies and ways to engage them but the fundamentals are very much solved from the start if you’ve played through BotW, and the new gimmicks are not super interesting in terms of combat. Lot of standing around fusing weapons, switching back and forth to rock sledges.

Depths were the coolest part to explore since they were something new, but needed some actual risk v reward in there, gloom penalties are trivial to deal with. Did have plenty of fun with it still though. Just not a slam dunk for me.
Semi-agree. I’m having a blast with this game—the fetching it actually okay for me—but I got down to 3 hearts in the depths fighting one Lynel in a colisseum. Then I used the stairs (environment) to defeat THREE Lynels on the three hearts (bow focus while jumping). I had to de-gloom for the fourth Lynel, but … it shouldn’t have been that easy — by a longshot.
 
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simpatico

Member
Am I the only one who doesn't play video games for "emotion"? I'm not even sure exactly what OP means. Can someone give examples?
 

Raploz

Member
To me it's all about finding new stuff. I always find myself wanting to do something specific and then suddenly I find something new (like a shrine, an NPC side quest, or a Korok Seed, the caves, the man holding the signs, or a Tear with a cutscene, or a new tower, a new chasm or a labyrinth, or a new strong enemy, chests, dragons, the main temples and the journey you have to do until you reach them, the lightroots, the Yiga hideouts, a new vehicle, cool NPCs and their backstories, finding stables, new clothes, building your own house in Tarrey Town, rare horses, collecting supplies and unlocking recipes, finding more powerful weapon combinations...) and when I realize it I'm doing something completely different. You're always doing something different, so it never gets boring. It's the same thing that makes me love the old NFS or Midnight Club racing games: there's always something new to unlock and you have to earn it through hard work, unlike the Forza Horizon games that shower you with a trillion cars after every race. That's boring!

I guess not everyone is engaged by the same things and that's okay, but there's definitely plenty to like in Totk.
 
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TLZ

Banned
It’s a good game but too easy and too similar to BotW. Liked the early game the best when resources and hearts/stamina were the most limited, especially when exploring the depths early on. Later on was basically on autopilot. I like BotW better in a lot of ways, had to engage with the core systems properly as you explore the world, nice power curve, more sense of discovery. Totk breaks everything early on with the new systems and reuses too much from the old systems.
I agree with this very much. As much as I enjoyed TOTK, I stopped playing it after a while. Something about it was too chorey. Felt like work more than fun for me.

With BoTW I could never put the controller down. Clocked 300+ hours and was looking for more things to do but couldn't. All was done. I enjoyed the exploration and discovery a lot.
 
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