Support NeoGAF

[FoxMcChief]

Not every game needs to hold you by the hand narratively. Elden Ring is a perfect example (besides TotK) where story isn’t as important as gameplay.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Everyone is different, I am 180 hours in and just found ..... A cool new toy in the depths... which I didn't know was in the game. It absolutely still hits me in my feels, but I don't use guides unless I feel it's absolutely necessary. Everything I find is truly feels like a discovery.

 

[GigaBowser]

Link is gonna bees tired from all the GOTY awards and bags of sales money hes gonna carry

 

[Kataploom]

It’s a good game but too easy and too similar to BotW. Liked the early game the best when resources and hearts/stamina were the most limited, especially when exploring the depths early on. Later on was basically on autopilot. I like BotW better in a lot of ways, had to engage with the core systems properly as you explore the world, nice power curve, more sense of discovery. Totk breaks everything early on with the new systems and reuses too much from the old systems.

I don't think those two games are easy at all, problem is you are too used to play games and already played BOTW, but those are actually harder than average, at the beginning at least and specially compared to other Zeldas.

The difficulty comes from the fact that some want to play them like they play other games so they get punished by not using environment or think out of the box in combats. Similar situation than Dark Souls, just not at the same level.

I've seen many people complain about game difficulty since BOTW came out and it was actually needed in the franchise, you can just cheese it by knowing how to build your progress and how to fight using environment instead of just swinging a weapon mindlessly until it breaks tho, but that's somethig that requires learning the game.

For the average player, those games start quite hard imo.

 

[Varteras]

Giant dick robots.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Game is great sorry not sorry.

 

[Apocryphon]

BOTW was very exciting because it was such a drastic shift in mechanics and gameplay systems. Not perfect but a great Zelda game. TOTK is more of the same and I am finding it to be disappointing. I think I like Wind Waker more

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Am I the only one who doesn't play video games for "emotion"? I'm not even sure exactly what OP means. Can someone give examples?

Human emotion. Laughter, excitment, nervousness, elation etc... Don't the best games bring these emotions out of you? Isn't that the point?

Not necessarely. In a puzzle game like Portal for example, there are basically 0 risks. The excitement comes from figuring out a solution for a problem after sitting on it for a while. Then for story driven games, people mostly get excited about a certain development in the plot.
In the case of this zelda and BotW, it mostly comes from figuring out ways of using your "toy box" to engage with the game world.

I never played Portal but I suspect the puzzles would be a little more challenging (rewarding), and the sci fi AI story would be exponentially more interesting than what we got in TotK.

I'm playing Enter the Gungeon right now and the game does something beautiful that Zelda does not. It cares how you complete your task.

In Zelda, you have to cross a lake. They give you a sandbox of toys to figure it out. However, once you cross the lake, the game doesn't care how you did it. The game essentially says "Great, you made it! Now go do this." You kind of want the game to recognize your ingenuity in some way but it never does.

In Enter the Gungeon, you have to get through a level and defeat a boss. The way you complete those levels and beat those bosses is actually important. Once you beat a boss the game goes "Alright, let's see how you did. Ok, here are your rewards based on your performance. Good luck using those rewards on the next level."

To me, that's objectively better game design when you're dealing with these kinds of PvE games. In other words, Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom in a picture...

 

[Guilty_AI]

Human emotion. Laughter, excitment, nervousness, elation etc... Don't the best games bring these emotions out of you? Isn't that the point?




I never played Portal but I suspect the puzzles would be a little more challenging (rewarding), and the sci fi AI story would be exponentially more interesting than what we got in TotK.

I'm playing Enter the Gungeon right now and the game does something beautiful that Zelda does not. It cares how you complete your task.

In Zelda, you have to cross a lake. They give you a sandbox of toys to figure it out. However, once you cross the lake, the game doesn't care how you did it. The game essentially says "Great, you made it! Now go do this." You kind of want the game to recognize your ingenuity in some way but it never does.

In Enter the Gungeon, you have to get through a level and defeat a boss. The way you complete those levels and beat those bosses is actually important. Once you beat a boss the game goes "Alright, let's see how you did. Ok, here are your rewards based on your performance. Good luck using those rewards on the next level."

To me, that's objectively better game design when you're dealing with these kinds of PvE games. In other words, Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom in a picture...

There is some rewards based on how you complete a task, mainly regarding your use of resources. Defeating an enemy with sticks and mostly useless items will always be preferable to spending a rare sword to do so.

One game that perfectly exemplifies this is Ctrl Alt Ego. You're essentially immortal on that game, however your resources are limited. Completing a challenge with minimal resource use means more resources for the next challenge. Similarly, although you're immortal, dying means you might have just wasted all the resources you used trying to get past a challenge.

 

[Mossybrew]

Meh I get it OP. Its like botw, kind of a fun sandbox to play around in for a while, but I lose interest. I havent touched totk since Diablo 4 released and I doubt I will return. The high reviews these games get are one of the most baffling trends in modern gaming.

 

[semiconscious]

I've watched a number of glowing reviews about Tears of the Kingdom and they're all accurate in terms of specifics but they ignore the fundamental emotion that videogames can illicit. Do I have this wrong? Did Zelda TotK have exciting high moments for you? Was there anything about this game that got your heart rate going?...

the truth? i thoroughly enjoyed breath of the wild. the game was a revelation, & a celebration of fantasy adventure. tears of the kingdom? i'd much rather replay the original, & vicariously experience the delight i originally felt. tears of the kingdom, for me, is some kinda weird funhouse mirror version of botw, with it's heart removed, & with assembling mechanics added. i couldn't get past a dozen hours before bailing...

 

[SteadyEvo]

Couldn’t put it down for 60 hours. Unlocked the map and did 2 dungeons and kinda lost interest. Not because it’s boring but they’re too much to do. I think a game can be too big for its own good and this is an example of that. Still a good game I’ll finish later on. Hopefully the next Zelda isn’t open world and a more focused experience.

 

[Crayon]

Could be wrong but I think what you were describing is exactly what a lot of people like about the game.

My wife is back at home playing it right now. When she wants to play it she says "I'm going to run around a bit". Then she runs around and climbs things for hours. She gets a few little things accomplished but really hardly anything. It's like a sandbox and to her it's good for hiking and exploring. Actually, she likes doing the shrines too so she gets those done.

 

[xBlueStonex]

After hating BOTW, the only hope I had for TOTK was to visit new locations across the Hyrule map... only to find that TOTK wants you to go to the same EXACT locations as before. Literally, the same villages all over again. Totally killed my desire to play, haven't touched it since.

 

[EviLore]

I don't think those two games are easy at all, problem is you are too used to play games and already played BOTW, but those are actually harder than average, at the beginning at least and specially compared to other Zeldas.

The difficulty comes from the fact that some want to play them like they play other games so they get punished by not using environment or think out of the box in combats. Similar situation than Dark Souls, just not at the same level.

I've seen many people complain about game difficulty since BOTW came out and it was actually needed in the franchise, you can just cheese it by knowing how to build your progress and how to fight using environment instead of just swinging a weapon mindlessly until it breaks tho, but that's somethig that requires learning the game.

For the average player, those games start quite hard imo.

My elderly reflexes, 20/1000000 vision, and arthritic joints are simply too powerful for modern gaming it seems!

 

[HazukiSensei]

Nintendo cant tell great stories and create great dungeons anymore. Last great game for me was TP.

Thank you.

TOTK and FROMsoft craze as of late, tells me were in an era of...lack of care for presentation or storytelling or pacing anymore.

Everyone just wants a game they can do fuck all in, and they are happy. They even try to act as if thats the "hardcore" way to play games, "gameplay first bro" as nakeyjakey and dunkey would say. When in reality, our hobby has been invaded by those impatient dudebros that would skip cutscenes in any game with a story. So FROM and BOTW/TOTK is perfect for 2023 mindset.

 

[HazukiSensei]

Not necessarely. In a puzzle game like Portal for example, there are basically 0 risks. The excitement comes from figuring out a solution for a problem after sitting on it for a while. Then for story driven games, people mostly get excited about a certain development in the plot.
In the case of this zelda and BotW, it mostly comes from figuring out ways of using your "toy box" to engage with the game world.

It really comes down to taste. You clearly seem to prefer this notion of risk&reward for games, where there are well defined meanings for victory and defeat. Its no wonder you like MP games - or maybe its MP games that gave you this kind of taste in the first place.

Eh I think TOTK accomodates the same frat dudes that take a gta game and ONLY play to go on rampages.

If I go into a fraternity and have a fraternity full of casuals play either totk, or the witcher 3, they are going to go with totk. Why? Because one is closer to that GTA game where they can go on rampages.

They'd lack the love for games to muster up the patience to hear out one cutscene in the witcher 3, metal gear,shenmue, final fantasy, half life 2 even (dunkey).

Thats what TOTK represents to me. The mass migration to the takeover of the fraternity mindset in videogames. "Gameplay first bro" a.k.a. "hurr durr let me skip this cutscene so I can fuck shit up"

Zelda cant have those slow beginnings anymore lol

 

[Shadowstar39]

Well to each their own. All I play right now is TOTK, I literally haven’t touched another game since it released.
For me it’s the gameplay and possibilities of what you can do and how the physics hold it all together that makes it so exciting. The story is whatever, I don’t really care. I just want to play around with the tools. It’s the ultimate sandbox. And I find new ways to use the tools almost every day.

And tbh I have have no real desire to play anything else that is out right now. Everything seems to restricted and shallow. I guess I could play FF16 but the performance talk made it seem better to wait on the PC version, not really excited about the action focus either. I could play Street Fighter 6 but I’m not sure I can put in the time to actually learn that right now, would just be button mashing. Cammy is a feast for the eyes though. I could finish Hogwarts but I find the hand-holding extreme and if you deactivate all guides it’s clear it’s not really made to be played that way.

Starfield is my next serious point of interest, but that’s 2 months away. Hopefully my love for TOTK has decrease a little by then so I can put in some serious time there.

Ff16 performance is fine Iin performance mode. I haven't had any issues. Now 4k30 mode is motion blur city but I am on a 1080p TV. It's been solid 60 looking and feeling for me. Don't miss out on a killer game. Best FF since 12.

Totk I haven't opened yet. Still playing botw when. At work or when on porch. The great thing about switch.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Thank you.

TOTK and FROMsoft craze as of late, tells me were in an era of...lack of care for presentation or storytelling or pacing anymore.

Everyone just wants a game they can do fuck all in, and they are happy. They even try to act as if thats the "hardcore" way to play games, "gameplay first bro" as nakeyjakey and dunkey would say. When in reality, our hobby has been invaded by those impatient dudebros that would skip cutscenes in any game with a story. So FROM and BOTW/TOTK is perfect for 2023 mindset.

Plays ff16 if you want story. It's my goty and storywise is so good.

 

[Kataploom]

My elderly reflexes, 20/1000000 vision, and arthritic joints are simply too powerful for modern gaming it seems!

Absolutely! I take modern primarily cinematic games as step gaps games that require basically no investment on my end.

Zelda BOTW and TOTK are in a weird limbo tho, they are in the same spot but also in the full immersion/investment spot.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Thank you.

TOTK and FROMsoft craze as of late, tells me were in an era of...lack of care for presentation or storytelling or pacing anymore.

Everyone just wants a game they can do fuck all in, and they are happy. They even try to act as if thats the "hardcore" way to play games, "gameplay first bro" as nakeyjakey and dunkey would say. When in reality, our hobby has been invaded by those impatient dudebros that would skip cutscenes in any game with a story. So FROM and BOTW/TOTK is perfect for 2023 mindset.

It is so odd because I know exactly what you are getting at and I have felt very similarly over the years but Zelda BotW/TotK has been one of my favorite games of all time.

But I am a heavy story guy who grew up with JRPGs and love those Sony MoViE gAmEs. I really miss when more focused narrative experiences.

I love Nintendo and their gameplay first design philosophy but I hate when others talk about gameplay only games as "real hardcore games."

I think one of the reasons I do like Zelda BotW/TotK is due to the presentation. While gameplay oriented, it is also very cinematic in appearance. You can make a clip at almost any point and it will look like it is from a Ghibli or other cinematic movie. It is very atmospheric.

 

[Dynasty8]

My elderly reflexes, 20/1000000 vision, and arthritic joints are simply too powerful for modern gaming it seems!

With TotK and more recently FFXVI, it's pretty sad to see how far they're turning the dial on easy difficulty.

I am no where near the level of reflexes/skill as I was 20+ years ago...but man, it really does affect my enjoyment in a game when I don't have to try...at all.

All I'll say is... *Raises flame shield*...... Thank God for FromSoftware. Ok Zelda and FF fans... guys can burn me alive now.

I'm ready.

 

[Noxxera]

Yes you're wrong. The intro set everything up great. If you didnt find the intro before tutorial area interesting nothing I say can change your mind.

 

[Fredrik]

Ff16 performance is fine Iin performance mode. I haven't had any issues. Now 4k30 mode is motion blur city but I am on a 1080p TV. It's been solid 60 looking and feeling for me. Don't miss out on a killer game. Best FF since 12.

Totk I haven't opened yet. Still playing botw when. At work or when on porch. The great thing about switch.

I’ve seen the tech analysis videos, there is no rush, might just as well wait and see how the PC version is.
And I’m deep into TOTK right now anyway, no time or desire to be elsewhere to be honest. And then comes Starfield. I actually want to finish FF7RI before I jump into 16 as well. Too much on my plate already!

 

[nkarafo]

The more i look at it the more it looks like a sandbox game. I'm not a fan of sandbox games and i'm too lazy to build stuff. I prefer a more tight Zelda experience where i don't have to build things or fill my inventory with a million random items.

 

[KXVXII9X]

With TotK and more recently FFXVI, it's pretty sad to see how far they're turning the dial on easy difficulty.

I am no where near the level of reflexes/skill as I was 20+ years ago...but man, it really does affect my enjoyment in a game when I don't have to try...at all.

All I'll say is... *Raises flame shield*...... Thank God for FromSoftware. Ok Zelda and FF fans... guys can burn me alive now.

I'm ready.

 

[Hudo]

If you look at the threads, the game spawns a lot of emotions and drama.

 

[Yoboman]

Quiet, you can't say Zelda is less than flawless

 

[DarthPutin]

I appreciate the achievement of physics and builds, but so far find it hard to get into.

It lacks fun ways to get around; the horses control horribly; you can make many creative travelling devices, so if you're really into that, good for you! But I find the process sluggish and annoying, a bit too realistic in that sense, and then this crap flies for 10 seconds in direction I don't want it to go and it's gone. I suspect flying in Hogwarts and running around in Forspoken and the steed in Elden Ring ruined it for me. I want to go fast! Even Witcher had far superior horse.

The world is pretty ugly, so that aspect of discovery is not there, many NPCs barely have faces; I do like the enemies, they actually have charm, colorful design and are fun in classic cartoon way. Oh, and I hate the sounds they make. Like they are either tortured or try to participate in prOn, or both.

Controlling Link in the beginning is like controlling 70 y.o. asthmatic. He runs two meters and he's out of breath on the edge of death. He can swim for 5 minues. Makes me feel like star athlete in comparison. Climbing is terribly boring.

Fighting is sort of ... weightless? I realize that we can do a lot of inventive things, which is cool, but shouldn't the basic combat be entertaining to begin with? I first need to get into it in order to want to experiment.

And while freedom is nice, in this case it meant that I've missed getting glider. So now I have to go all the way back and look for it, but I got so bored it's been weeks since last playsession.

So tl;dr, great achievement in design but probably not for me.

 

[Gambit2483]

With TotK and more recently FFXVI, it's pretty sad to see how far they're turning the dial on easy difficulty.

I am no where near the level of reflexes/skill as I was 20+ years ago...but man, it really does affect my enjoyment in a game when I don't have to try...at all.

All I'll say is... *Raises flame shield*...... Thank God for FromSoftware. Ok Zelda and FF fans... guys can burn me alive now.

I'm ready.

Ok, now go kill a Lynel or better yet a Gleeok with 3 hearts and 5 rusty broadswords.

 

[GymWolf]

Ok, now go kill a Lynel or better yet a Gleeok with 3 hearts and 5 rusty broadswords.

Asking to create an artificial challenge in a game praised for the freedom of approach can't get any more funnier

 

[MagiusNecros]

Zelda BotW/TotK story is told through the world and it's surroundings. There is much to glean from old ruins, remnants of old places and the scattered lore all over the place. Not to mention the Depths.

But if you were looking for a Michael Bay Zelda game then you aren't gonna get that with Legend of Zelda: Fallout Edition.

 

[Gambit2483]

Asking to create an artificial challenge in a game praised for the freedom of approach can't get any more funnier

What's artificial? You don't have to increase your heart containers or use any particular weapon....so to use the strongest loadout possible is no more artificial than not, imo, in a game like this.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

TotK is my favorite Zelda now. I also think the main story is one of the worst in the franchise. You basically know the entire plot within 5-10 hours. Nothing is revealed or developed after that. Nothing unexpected happens. And that's fine.

Where the game succeeds is in its atmosphere and world building, and in its gameplay. Those three elements make up for the lackluster main story in spades.

 

[GymWolf]

What's artificial? You don't have to increase your heart containers or use any particular weapon....so to use the strongest loadout possible is no more artificial than not, imo, in a game like this.

Asking to beat arguably the hardest enemy in the game with rusty broadswords and without getting health upgrades it is not creating an artificial challenge just to make a worthless point about the game not being a cakewalk for the most part?

Ok then...

It is not the player job to balance videogames, it's the dev job, the game should have a challenge even without doing mongoloid stuff to make you weaker on purpose.

This sound like people defending ff16 cakewalk challenge because if you fight a secret boss 20 levels over yours you can actually die once or 2 times...

Gimme a break.

The moment you need to make yourself weaker to have a challenge it means that the game is not well balanced at all.

In all the hard games with an actual challenge i fap 5 times even for a 5% upgrade, this is how a videogame should work, being excited when you get stronger.

 

[Dynasty8]

Ok, now go kill a Lynel or better yet a Gleeok with 3 hearts and 5 rusty broadswords.

So instead of developers properly adjusting difficulty and balancing, we are supposed to disable ourselves and not utilize intended aspects of the game to add challenge. It's not a good design.

"FFXVI too easy? Ok, now go kill a S tier rank notorious mark with the starting weapons and no armor while blindfolded, hopping on one leg, while doing karaoke."

 

[Gambit2483]

Asking to beat arguably the hardest enemy in the game with rusty broadswords and without getting health upgrades it is not creating an artificial challenge just to male a worthless point?

Ok then...

It is not the player job to balance videogames, it's the dev job, the game should have a challenge even without doing mongoloid stuff to make you weaker on purpose.

This sound like people defending ff16 cakewalk challenge because if you fight a secret boss 20 levels over yours you can actually die once or 2 times...

Gimme a break.

I was exaggerating on the actual loadout but my point remains that you can create as challenging of a game as you want.

And honestly even with the strongest loadout, killing a Lynel (esp a silver) or a single Gleeok is NOT what I would call "easy". I'm just calling out bs saying the game is not at all challenging.

 

[MagiusNecros]

"FFXVI too easy? Ok, now go kill a S tier rank notorious mark with the starting weapons and no armor while blindfolded, hopping on one leg, while doing karaoke."

To be fair Yoshi P would probably say something like that. He told the Healer community in XIV to "lol play Ultimate" when asked to give Healers something to do besides press their one DPS button over and over.

---------------

Also the story in every Zelda is very straightforward. You already know what's gonna happen miles away. You don't play Zelda for it's bare bones story but moreso because of Hyrule.

 

[Gambit2483]

So instead of developers properly adjusting difficulty and balancing, we are supposed to disable ourselves and not utilize intended aspects of the game to add challenge. It's not a good design.

"FFXVI too easy? Ok, now go kill a S tier rank notorious mark with the starting weapons and no armor while blindfolded, hopping on one leg, while doing karaoke."

Except they DO adjust the difficulty. As you progress the enemies get more challenging with stronger weapons and stronger "breeds" with blue, black and silver variations. You have to remember that this is a game designed for ALL ages and various skill levels.

This isn't Elden Ring and Nintendo never intended it to be. If you want crippling and brutal difficulty go play that instead

 

[GymWolf]

I was exaggerating on the actual loadout but my point remains that you can create as challenging of a game as you want.

And honestly even with the strongest loadout, killing a Lynel (esp a silver) or a single Gleeok is NOT what I would call "easy". I'm just calling out bs saying the game is not at all challenging.

Not for me, i like to nerd on a build because the game is hard AF, not the opposite.

Creating a challenge by yourself is a nice way to say that the game has shit balancing, let's be real here.

Zelda is not the worst offender because at least it has the excuse of being a brand for kids and nintendo barely make hard games to begin with.

Those 2 are the only enemies that offer a challenge in the whole game, not nearly enough for such a gigantic game, the bosses and 99% of the enemies are all cakewalks unless it's your first action game ever.

The red hands can be hard to deal the first time and only because they kinda take you by surprise, when you realize that you can just climb a bit and fuck em up with 5 arrow bombs they become trivial like the rest.

 

[GymWolf]

Except they DO adjust the difficulty. As you progress the enemies get more challenging with stronger weapons and stronger "breeds" with blue, black and silver variations. You have to remember that this is a game designed for ALL ages and various skill levels.

This isn't Elden Ring and Nintendo never intended it to be. If you want crippling and brutal difficulty go play that instead

They just do more damage and get more spongy, the ia and moveset remain the same.

The only difference between a brown boglin and a white boglin is the number of times you smash him on the ground with your basic combo with him being unable to touch you.

They only get dungerous if you fight someones else because you don't have a classic evade but just that fucking backflip that work like shit when surrounded by enemies (yes even the lateral backflip), if the game had a modern lock on and evade system like 99% of games out there it would be even more easy, you battle the controls more than the enemies.

The game is saved by everything else it does good but challenge and combat are pretty dreadfull for any experienced action game dude.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Zelda series was never known as being masochistic.

And virtually every game lets you restart just before the point at which you died.

 

[Gambit2483]

They just do more damage and get more spongy, the ia and moveset remain the same.

The only difference between a brown boglin and a white boglin is the number of times you smash him on the ground with your basic combo with him being unable to touch you.

They only get dungerous if you fight someones else because you don't have a classic evade but just that fucking backflip that work like shit when surrounded by enemies (yes even the lateral backflip), if the game had a modern lock on and evade system like 99% of games out there it would be even more easy, you battle the controls more than the enemies.

The game is saved by everything else it does good but challenge and combat are pretty dreadfull for any experienced action game dude.

It's sounds like you just don't like the Zelda combat system because EVERY game that increases difficulty involves the enemy hitting harder and having more health (that's a cornerstone to increase in difficulty). Now if you want moblins to suddenly start moving and acting like characters in a Nioh or Seikero game just because he's now silver then you sound like you just want to play a different game.

If you want a combat challenge try fighting more Lynels, Hinoxs, Gleeoks and all that crazy shit in the depths...but to complain about not dying from the simple grunts..

Again, it's a game for ALL ages and if kids (or the less skilled) were constantly getting their asses handed to them by Bokoblins and Moblins do you really think they would even TRY to fight a Lynel or Gleeok?

 

[Dynasty8]

Except they DO adjust the difficulty. As you progress the enemies get more challenging with stronger weapons and stronger "breeds" with blue, black and silver variations. You have to remember that this is a game designed for ALL ages and various skill levels.

This isn't Elden Ring and Nintendo never intended it to be. If you want crippling and brutal difficulty go play that instead

The enemies are still a cakewalk even later on and the games forgives all your mistakes and errors. There are almost no consequences.

And it seems like that's the excuse nowadays from gamers when the difficulty of their favorite franchises are WAY too easy...it's always "this isn't elden ring" or "this isn't dark souls"...or "this game is designed for all ages".

It doesn't have to be a FromSoft game. How about we just go back to difficulty levels of previous Zelda games back then? Those were never even that crippling or hard, but it was MUCH better balanced in terms of challenging players and at least it required some effort and thought compared to the insane hand holding and forgiveness in current titles.

And to say "designed for all ages" is just silly to me. Most of us were kids when we played older Zelda and FF games. The kids nowadays are learning fast and quickly surpassing us.

 

[GymWolf]

It's sounds like you just don't like the Zelda combat system because EVERY game that increases difficulty involves the enemy hitting harder and having more health (that's a cornerstone to increase in difficulty). Now if you want moblins to suddenly start moving and acting like characters in a Nioh or Seikero game just because he's now silver then you sound like you just want to play a different game.

If you want a combat challenge try fighting more Lynels, Hinoxs, Gleeoks and all that crazy shit in the depths...but to complain about not dying from the simple grunts..

Again, it's a game for ALL ages and if kids (or the less skilled) were constantly getting their asses handed to them by Bokoblins and Moblins do you really think they would even TRY to fight a Lynel or Gleeok?

There are various way to make the game harder, new moveset, more aggressive enemies, giving them elemental resistances, having more of them on screen etc.

Just giving more health and damage is the laziest way to make your game harder.

In other hard games you also die a lot against trash mobs, it is hardly uncommon so asking to be beated by trash enemies in zelda is not asking the moon.

Like i said, zelda has a built in excuse because it was never an hard brand, but as a player and final user i would love an hard mode so more skilled people can enjoy your game a bit more.

 

[Gambit2483]

The enemies are still a cakewalk even later on and the games forgives all your mistakes and errors. There are almost no consequences.

And it seems like that's the excuse nowadays from gamers when the difficulty of their favorite franchises are WAY too easy...it's always "this isn't elden ring" or "this isn't dark souls"...or "this game is designed for all ages".

It doesn't have to be a FromSoft game. How about we just go back to difficulty levels of previous Zelda games back then? Those were never even that crippling or hard, but it was MUCH better balanced in terms of challenging players and at least it required some effort and thought compared to the insane hand holding and forgiveness in current titles.

And to say "designed for all ages" is just silly to me. Most of us were kids when we played older Zelda and FF games. The kids nowadays are learning fast and quickly surpassing us.

It sounds like you're just upset that you are good at the game. You're crafting the strongest weapons, upgrading your armor, cooking the strongest foods and potions and mad because the games not punishing you enough for playing competently.

The game sold 10 million in 3 days. Millions of gamers aren't crafting the strongest, upgrading gear or making super potions. Most of them aren't even using the game mechanics properly. But you want them to face just as punishing a difficulty as you are seeking simply because you're better than them...?

I'm sure Nintendo will release a "master mode" like DLC but in the meantime go kill every Gleeok and Silver Lynel if you truly want to test your mettle. Since there's apparently no challenge.

 

[Dynasty8]

It sounds like you're just upset that you are good at the game. You're crafting the strongest weapons, upgrading your armor, cooking the strongest foods and potions and mad because the games not punishing you enough for playing competently.

The game sold 10 million in 3 days. Millions of gamers aren't crafting the strongest, upgrading gear or making super potions. Most of them aren't even using the game mechanics properly. But you want them to face just as punishing a difficulty as you are seeking simply because you're better than them...?

I'm sure Nintendo will release a "master mode" like DLC but in the meantime go kill every Gleeok and Silver Lynel if you truly want to test your mettle. Since there's apparently no challenge.

That's the thing, I'm not. I am actually playing the game trying to limit most upgrades in order to increase difficulty, still too easy. This also isn't just a Zelda thing, it's much more apparent in modern gaming sadly. At the very least developers need to have hard/master modes unlockable from the beginning without any requirements or as future DLCs. Games in general have become much, much easier and "dumbed" down (not Zelda in this case) for the most part. Just take a look at the diffrrence between Kingdom Hearts 1 and KH3. KH1 was the first entry and offered a fun challenge. KH3 is the easiest game I have ever played where I put the controller down and my AI party members would win fights for me...


I don't even consider myself "good". There are much more younger gamers here and everywhere else that are probably much better than me who feel the same that the game is too easy.


Look I get it, game sold 10+ million in the first week, most developers are trying to cater to "everyone"... But it was going to sell that much regardless if the game was brutally harder than what we have now. Zelda will always sell well and Zelda fans young and old will stop at nothing to overcome a game like this. Making the game more challenging would have added more excitement overall, just like the older Zelda games of the past.

 

[93xfan]

Yes. Thanks for reaching out to me, OP.

 

[tr1p1ex]

The enemies are still a cakewalk even later on and the games forgives all your mistakes and errors. There are almost no consequences.

And it seems like that's the excuse nowadays from gamers when the difficulty of their favorite franchises are WAY too easy...it's always "this isn't elden ring" or "this isn't dark souls"...or "this game is designed for all ages".

It doesn't have to be a FromSoft game. How about we just go back to difficulty levels of previous Zelda games back then? Those were never even that crippling or hard, but it was MUCH better balanced in terms of challenging players and at least it required some effort and thought compared to the insane hand holding and forgiveness in current titles.

And to say "designed for all ages" is just silly to me. Most of us were kids when we played older Zelda and FF games. The kids nowadays are learning fast and quickly surpassing us.

I don't recall the past 3-4 Zelda games before BotW being more challenging.

I would guess the difference is everything isn't as controlled and staged and as tightly ramped up as in a Wind Waker or Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword.

IT's a bigger much more open world with more packs of 'base' enemies to fight in more open locations with more choice on how to fight plus much more choice in how well equipped you can be to come to battle. And that might come at the expense of difficulty or at least perceived difficulty.

 

[Gambit2483]

That's the thing, I'm not. I am actually playing the game trying to limit most upgrades in order to increase difficulty, still too easy. This also isn't just a Zelda thing, it's much more apparent in modern gaming sadly. At the very least developers need to have hard/master modes unlockable from the beginning without any requirements or as future DLCs. Games in general have become much, much easier and "dumbed" down (not Zelda in this case) for the most part. Just take a look at the diffrrence between Kingdom Hearts 1 and KH3. KH1 was the first entry and offered a fun challenge. KH3 is the easiest game I have ever played where I put the controller down and my AI party members would win fights for me...


I don't even consider myself "good". There are much more younger gamers here and everywhere else that are probably much better than me who feel the same that the game is too easy.


Look I get it, game sold 10+ million in the first week, most developers are trying to cater to "everyone"... But it was going to sell that much regardless if the game was brutally harder than what we have now. Zelda will always sell well and Zelda fans young and old will stop at nothing to overcome a game like this. Making the game more challenging would have added more excitement overall, just like the older Zelda games of the past.

Bruh you keep talking about challenge this and challenge that but are only referencing fighting the scrub enemies....if you want a REAL challenge maybe try fightingvthe REALLY Challenging enemies like Gleeoks and Lynels and the Depths bosses. I really don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand. Nintendo made these exact enemies for people like you whining about it being too easy. This isn't that complicated