• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

AMD Launches Mantle in Beta – Apparently its for Low End CPUs not GPUs!

D

DarkLiberator

Banned
No wonder the game feels way smoother for me.

w3DP6YF.png


Mantle is on the right, DX left.
 
mario_O

mario_O

Member
More benchies..
i7 2700K
Radeon 7970

== Configuration ==========================================
API: DirectX
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 11493

Average FPS: 31.92
Average Unit Count: 4284
Maximum Unit Count: 5329
Average Batches/MS: 567.77
Maximum Batches/MS: 1402.73
Average Batch Count: 20487
Maximum Batch Count: 152402
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: Mantle
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 16
Shading Samples: 64
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 2
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 17712

Average FPS: 49.20
Average Unit Count: 4496
Maximum Unit Count: 5861
Average Batches/MS: 1021.41
Maximum Batches/MS: 2589.44
Average Batch Count: 23038
Maximum Batch Count: 112083
===========================================================
 
C

creyas

Member
Eh, didn't uninstall the old drivers before installing (didn't read lol), ran Star Swarm OK, but BF4 didn't detect Mantle. So did the uninstall thing, 14.1 display drivers failed to install. Ran driver cleaner in safe mode, same thing again and again. Fuck. It just skips over the display driver like it's not even trying.
 
D

Durante

Member
KojiKnight said:
While mantle will be a free API like OpenCL/MP.
Click to expand...
Will it be? Where are the independent, open standardization efforts? Where are the controlling/voting bodies set up by multiple companies and stakeholders? It took 3 years from the (open from the start!) publication of OpenCL to get it to a state where it's usable as an API, and that's after starting out with the support of many industry heavyweights.

At this point, the Mantle API isn't even publicly available, never mind open (which entails a lot more than that). Right now, it's less open than CUDA.

Honestly, whenever someone says Mantle is open I get a feeling that they don't really know the incredible amount of effort and preparation that goes into creating a new, open, broadly supported industry standard.

KojiKnight said:
I'm not saying it's perfect because it's not. In a perfect world everyone would use OpenGL and driver support for it would be perfect amongst all vendors (currently it's not even close, and often times even worse in Linux) because those are all completely open standards... but open standards don't work as marketing tools... At least in this case Mantle IS effective.
Click to expand...
Particularly AMD driver support, who rather spend time on different things.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
I'll repost this

Q: Is Mantle a proprietary AMD technology?

A: Mantle was conceived and developed by AMD in partnership with leading game developers.
This enabled the fast and agile development required to validate the concepts and bring such the technology to life in a relatively short period of time. However, Mantle was designed in a way that makes it applicable to a range of modern GPU architectures. In the months ahead, we will be inviting more partners to participate in the development program, leading up to a public release of the specifications later in 2014. Our intention is for Mantle, or something that looks very much like it, to eventually become an industry standard applicable to multiple graphics architectures and platforms.
Click to expand...


AMD has been pretty painfully clear in their intentions for mantle. It doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that Mantle, or as they say something very close to it, becoming a standard that gets absorbed into a larger consortium for use in low abstraction GPU programming.
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
Durante said:
Honestly, whenever someone says Mantle is open I get a feeling that they don't really know the incredible amount of effort and preparation that goes into creating a new, open, broadly supported industry standard.
Click to expand...
You don't need to know anything to blindly repeat AMD's lies.

Also - at this moment with all the secrecy and fud surrounding Mantle it went so far from being open by pretty much alienating any support it may have had from MS, NV, Intel and other 'small' players that even if AMD will decide to make it open at some point I wouldn't hold my breath over anyone supporting it. Most of industry will stick to improving DX and OpenGL, and this we've seen several times already - one company can't compete with the whole industry. Even MS and Intel can't do this.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
artist said:
Lower abstraction.

AMD is pushing it because of their obvious leverage being in both consoles. And the other simple fact that their struggling CPU's also get a big benefit out of it.

I'm really surprised to why it isn't obvious to more people.
Click to expand...

I know about the situation wrt the consoles and their CPUs will get the benefits.

I'm only saying, is it impossible to add the things that this API adds to OpenGL? Is there something fundamental about the way that OpenGL is built that it cannot accommodate the things that AMD are doing with Mantle?

Or is it just the case that AMD's only real reason to push Mantle instead of OpenGL is business savvy?

e.g.
Zarx said:
IIRC The two main things are that Mantle is designed to be multithreaded while OpenGL (and DX11) will usually get worse performance if you use multiple threads for rendering. And second Mantle gives devs direct control over GPU compute ques and memory.
Click to expand...

Could better support for multiple threads and better control over GPU compute and memory not be added to OpenGL (if it isn't already added?).
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
dr_rus said:
You don't need to know anything to blindly repeat AMD's lies.

Also - at this moment with all the secrecy and fud surrounding Mantle it went so far from being open by pretty much alienating any support it may have had from MS, NV, Intel and other 'small' players that even if AMD will decide to make it open at some point I wouldn't hold my breath over anyone supporting it. Most of industry will stick to improving DX and OpenGL, and this we've seen several times already - one company can't compete with the whole industry. Even MS and Intel can't do this.
Click to expand...

If anybody's spreading FUD its you.
 
P

PodcastFips

Member
I haven't followed all this Mantle stuff so far, which means I know what it basically does but not how it works.

My question is, will next-gen consoles benefit from it, too? I guess existing games like BF4 won't receive an update like PC players do atm, but what about future games? Can somebody answer this please? :)
 
D

Durante

Member
PodcastFips said:
I haven't followed all this Mantle stuff so far, which means I know what it basically does but not how it works.

My question is, will next-gen consoles benefit from it, too? I guess existing games like BF4 won't receive an update like PC players do atm, but what about future games? Can somebody answer this please? :)
Click to expand...
No. Consoles already use hardware-specific low-level APIs.
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
PodcastFips said:
I haven't followed all this Mantle stuff so far, which means I know what it basically does but not how it works.

My question is, will next-gen consoles benefit from it, too? I guess existing games like BF4 won't receive an update like PC players do atm, but what about future games? Can somebody answer this please? :)
Click to expand...

No. Mantle is basically designed so that you can use stuff from console development in a PC environment. It'll have no effect the other way.
 
W

wildfire

Banned


http://pclab.pl/art55953-4.html


They also have a chart for GTX 780 but there has to be some incentive to look at their site for providing this information.


I'm really impressed by how much improves performance. I was expecting a 15% increase on average but having a 20% increase at the minimum is amazing.

But I find these numbers to be sketchy because I doubt AMD expected 80% boosts for CPUs that are almost a decade old.

If I see similar numbers at sites I usually go to I have to tip my hat to AMD. They have the ability to offer a compelling tradeoff for not getting gsync. I still need to see frame times.
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
dr_rus said:
Nope. Your re-posting of AMD's lies is what fud spreading looks like.
Click to expand...
If this isn't a tin-foil at ythen
PodcastFips said:
I haven't followed all this Mantle stuff so far, which means I know what it basically does but not how it works.

My question is, will next-gen consoles benefit from it, too? I guess existing games like BF4 won't receive an update like PC players do atm, but what about future games? Can somebody answer this please? :)
Click to expand...

I would say that consoles would become alot easier to transition to for PC only developers. It could possibly help streamline the development process further from PC to Consoles, due to the similar principles being used.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
wildfire said:
But I find these numbers to be sketchy because I doubt AMD expected 80% boosts for CPUs that are almost a decade old.
Click to expand...

PClab.pl is good site. I doubt they would fiddle with numbers.


Imo biggest thing is that it completely changes how we perceive DX overhead. I mean just few months ago people were laughing at FXAA dav that said DX is the problem.

And now old CPU are almost perfect for new game. I mean getting 40FPS on average on Pentium G3420 ? In BF4 @1080p ultra ?

With FX6300 R290X is already maxed.


I want to see 4x290X with BF4.
 
R

Rafterman

Banned
iamshadowlark said:
AMD has been pretty painfully clear in their intentions for mantle. It doesn't take a leap of faith to believe that Mantle, or as they say something very close to it, becoming a standard that gets absorbed into a larger consortium for use in low abstraction GPU programming.
Click to expand...

You honestly think other GPU makers are going to just jump on the Mantle bandwagon? It doesn't matter what AMDs intentions are, it's an API developed and designed with their hardware in mind with an "oh by the way, if you other guys want to use it we'll show you how" added after the fact. It might as well be proprietary for all the fucks Nvidia and Intel will give, and if they don't jump on board it's never gaining traction on a widescale basis. It's a nice bullet point for AMD to sell their cards, but an industry standard?...a leap of faith is being generous.
 
T

Toski

Member
Rafterman said:
You honestly think other GPU makers are going to just jump on the Mantle bandwagon? It doesn't matter what AMDs intentions are, it's an API developed and designed with their hardware in mind with an "oh by the way, if you other guys want to use it we'll show you how" added after the fact. It might as well be proprietary for all the fucks Nvidia and Intel will give, and if they don't jump on board it's never gaining traction on a widescale basis. It's a nice bullet point for AMD to sell their cards, but an industry standard?...a leap of faith is being generous.
Click to expand...

The only reason Mantle exists is because GCN is in the X1 and PS4. Mantle's true test is when Pirate Islands and Maxwell release. With Kaveri done, all of AMD's R&D should be on Pirate Islands and 20nm. Otherwise if Maxwell cleans Pirate Islands' clock on DX11 across the board, Mantle wont save it.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
I think at this point talking about Mantle being open from either side is pointless. We don't know if this even will live in 2016 let alone be open standard.

AMD said in faq and Repi said already that Mantle has features req to be compatible. We don't currently know what are those features or even how API works.

Ok now, let's talk about serious stuff. I won't ask again ! Who have 4x290 or 4x290x to show how Mantle in early beta works with multigpu setup ? Anyone ? Or just CF would be good.

For science !
 
SMOK3Y

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
wildfire said:


http://pclab.pl/art55953-4.html


They also have a chart for GTX 780 but there has to be some incentive to look at their site for providing this information.


I'm really impressed by how much improves performance. I was expecting a 15% increase on average but having a 20% increase at the minimum is amazing.

But I find these numbers to be sketchy because I doubt AMD expected 80% boosts for CPUs that are almost a decade old.

If I see similar numbers at sites I usually go to I have to tip my hat to AMD. They have the ability to offer a compelling tradeoff for not getting gsync. I still need to see frame times.
Click to expand...

so looking what does it do above NVidia/Intel? looking at the site with the 780 just running my CPU at turbo it is same frames? (I run Titan so same as 780 basically)
 
I

iamshadowlark

Banned
Rafterman said:
You honestly think other GPU makers are going to just jump on the Mantle bandwagon? It doesn't matter what AMDs intentions are, it's an API developed and designed with their hardware in mind with an "oh by the way, if you other guys want to use it we'll show you how" added after the .
Click to expand...

I really don't see why this constantly get brought out as a conversation point. It makes me question just how ept someone is in understanding low-level programming.

What the API is designed for is irrelevant, an API is only a list of pre-fabbed commands one can call to supplement functions. There's no heuristical boundries for NV/Intel/Whoever to jump over in supporting this, if it came to fleshing out their own products. There's no dependencies they would have to AMD's commands.

The only thing that has to be common is syntax, which begets no real advantage to either party.
 
W

wildfire

Banned
SMOK3Y said:
so looking what does it do above NVidia/Intel? looking at the site with the 780 just running my CPU at turbo it is same frames? (I run Titan so same as 780 basically)
Click to expand...

Well mantle offers a clear advantage when pairing strong gpu power with low cpu power. Besides Intel isn't worth mentioning because of their terrible drivers causing frequent performance drops.

Regarding your second question that will depend on the CPU you are using and whether or not you are overclocking. Just cross reference the charts correctly to see the result you are looking for.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
alexandros said:
Can someone point out the issues in those screenshots?
Click to expand...

Mantle shots seem to be brighter, have (maybe?) a more aggressive distance fog or LOD... buildings in the background seem to either fade out eearlier or just be lost in the whiteness of the overblown brightness.

It is hard to tell.

Those are the only difference I see. BUt it really could just be an increased default brightness.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
bee said:
mantle currently seems to have some serious lod issues compared to dx11 in battlefield 4
Click to expand...

more like minor. There is one building in first shot and vents in other.

Also i noticed Mantle version has additional shadows (at the left side of mantle second shot) but it could be just shot taken bit differently especially considering wall near player being a bit different.
 
SMOK3Y

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
wildfire said:
Well mantle offers a clear advantage when pairing strong gpu power with low cpu power. Besides Intel isn't worth mentioning because of their terrible drivers causing frequent performance drops.

Regarding your second question that will depend on the CPU you are using and whether or not you are overclocking. Just cross reference the charts correctly to see the result you are looking for.
Click to expand...

thanks for answer mate. im running a OC i7 4770 (@4.4) so no real benefit in either case for me ill just enjoy what they can use in the PS4 with mantle
 
Irobot82

Irobot82

Member
I can't get it up and running in either BF4 or Star Swarm. CTD for both. I have disabled Radeon Pro and Afterburner.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
Looks like i was right mantle version of second shot has additional shadows and vents on building compared to DX shot. Placebo ?

iUp5Ikb724BqD.png
Click to expand...


Irobot82 said:
I can't get it up and running in either BF4 or Star Swarm. CTD for both. I have disabled Radeon Pro and Afterburner.
Click to expand...

Did you uninstalled first your Catalyst drivers before you installed new Catalyst drivers ? Because that is why most of people had problem with.
 
P

pestul

Member
Anyone tried a i7 920 @4ghz yet? Durante? I think you had a non-gcn gpu like me as well though. I think the performance should be great and may sway me to keep this configuration and put a 290 in when they're affordable again.
 
B

BernardoSLR

Neo Member
i7 3930K
R9 290X

Code: 
== Configuration ==========================================
API:				[B]DirectX[/B]
Scenario:			ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input:			Disabled
Resolution:			1920x1080
Fullscreen:			True
GameCore Update:		16.6 ms
Bloom Quality:			High
PointLight Quality:		High
ToneCurve Quality:		High
Glare Overdraw:			16
Shading Samples: 		64
Shade Quality:			Mid
Deferred Contexts:		Disabled
Temporal AA Duration:		16
Temporal AA Time Slice:		2
Detailed Frame Info:		Off
===========================================================

== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			8770

Average FPS:			24.36
Average Unit Count:		3748
Maximum Unit Count:		5472
Average Batches/MS:		514.70
Maximum Batches/MS:		1230.68
Average Batch Count:		22844
Maximum Batch Count:		158856
===========================================================

== Configuration ==========================================
API:				[B]Mantle[/B]
Scenario:			ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input:			Disabled
Resolution:			1920x1080
Fullscreen:			True
GameCore Update:		16.6 ms
Bloom Quality:			High
PointLight Quality:		High
ToneCurve Quality:		High
Glare Overdraw:			16
Shading Samples: 		64
Shade Quality:			Mid
Deferred Contexts:		Disabled
Temporal AA Duration:		16
Temporal AA Time Slice:		2
Detailed Frame Info:		Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration:			360 Seconds
Total Frames:			18572

Average FPS:			51.59
Average Unit Count:		4462
Maximum Unit Count:		5602
Average Batches/MS:		1056.47
Maximum Batches/MS:		2588.66
Average Batch Count:		23147
Maximum Batch Count:		116080
===========================================================
 
D

Durante

Member
Those screenshot differences don't look significant, performance-wise.

Perkel said:
I think at this point talking about Mantle being open from either side is pointless. We don't know if this even will live in 2016 let alone be open standard.

AMD said in faq and Repi said already that Mantle has features req to be compatible. We don't currently know what are those features or even how API works.
Click to expand...
The very fact that we don't even know how the API works tells us that, at this moment in time, Mantle is anything but open.
 
Irobot82

Irobot82

Member
Perkel said:
Looks like i was right mantle version of second shot has additional shadows and vents on building compared to DX shot. Placebo ?






Did you uninstalled first your Catalyst drivers before you installed new Catalyst drivers ? Because that is why most of people had problem with.
Click to expand...

Figured it out. I had to disable intel graphics in device manager.
 
Irobot82

Irobot82

Member
DX11
== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 8960

Average FPS: 24.89
Average Unit Count: 3888
Maximum Unit Count: 5515
Average Batches/MS: 405.10
Maximum Batches/MS: 1541.76
Average Batch Count: 20736
Maximum Batch Count: 159680
===========================================================
Click to expand...

Mantle
== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 15824

Average FPS: 43.96
Average Unit Count: 4393
Maximum Unit Count: 5505
Average Batches/MS: 997.45
Maximum Batches/MS: 2846.28
Average Batch Count: 24553
Maximum Batch Count: 103377
===========================================================
Click to expand...

Wow!

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7900 Series
CPU: GenuineIntel
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz
Physical Cores: 4
Logical Cores: 4
Physical Memory: 8467042304
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================
Click to expand...
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
dr_rus said:
Nope. Your re-posting of AMD's lies is what fud spreading looks like.
Click to expand...

No... FUD spreading is when you make bold statements that go against what a company says without any proof such as saying "spreading AMD lies".

People asked about Mantle being an open standard... AMD has stated that LATER THIS YEAR (which is hardly "eventually") they plan to bring more companies in to work on it and to try and make it an open standard (or something very like Mantle, meaning AMD is flexible enough that if enough changes need to be made they'd as to make it a different product, they'd STILL adopt it over Mantle because they want a new API standard over D3D)

What reason do you have to believe that AMD is lying about this statement? Where is your proof? You have some right? If you don't then you are spreading FUD! If you DO then please share so the rest of us can see "AMD's lies".
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Gold Member
curlycare said:
Hmm in the first mantle pic there's something wrong with the weapon texture. Like texture streaming problem?

Edit: Here's a quick crappy gif. Meh doesn't seem too serious.
Click to expand...

It's deffinetely not just a lighting difference... some details on the weapon look better in Mantle imo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AMD RDNA 5 To Be A Completely New GPU Architecture From The Ground Up, RDNA 4 Mostly Fixes RDNA 3 Issues & Improves Ray Tracing
News Rumor Hardware 2 3
128
6K
SoloCamo replied
Baldur's Gate 3 PC - DF Tech Review - Graphics Analysis + Optimised Settings
Opinion Analysis
25
5K
Mister Wolf replied
AMD announces frame generation for all DX11 and DX12 games
2 3 4
169
14K
Crayon replied
Intel fails to launch Arc desktop GPUs on time
25
2K
Cherrypepsi replied
Mark Cerny: When making consoles, we're not trying to build low-cost PCs
Opinion Game Dev Hardware 2 3 4 5
238
13K
Seider replied
Top Bottom