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AMD MUST Fix FSR Upscaling - DLSS vs FSR vs Native at 1080p
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No. In fact, it makes you very happy.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
An ant versus an elephant.
Self_Destructive
Member
Tell me about it. Look at this quick vid I made. 3840x1600 comparing the various upscaling techniques in their "performance mode" so effectively 1920x800 input resolution.
I start with TAA, then IGTI, XeSS, DLSS.. and then FSR2 at the end. I show how even FSR2 "quality" mode is worse than any of the other solutions in their performance mode. It's absolutely embarrassing in comparison. Keep your eyes on the power cable running across the screen lol..
I start with TAA, then IGTI, XeSS, DLSS.. and then FSR2 at the end. I show how even FSR2 "quality" mode is worse than any of the other solutions in their performance mode. It's absolutely embarrassing in comparison. Keep your eyes on the power cable running across the screen lol..
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Magic Carpet
Member
DLSS is almost magic.
Hopefully Sony takes a PSSR on it.
Hopefully Sony takes a PSSR on it.
"Well, this for us is a huge year because we have spent so many years developing our hardware and software capabilities for AI. We've just completed AI enabling our entire portfolio. So, cloud, edge, PCs, our gaming devices, we're enabling our gaming devices to upscale with AI...."
www.tomshardware.com
AMD confirms it is working on an AI upscaler for gaming – CTO Papermaster says it's part of 'AI enabling our entire portfolio'
FSR 4.0 coming soon?
www.tomshardware.com
I take it you missed the news that AMD are working on an AI version too? They spoke about it like two weeks ago, many assumed that's what's going to be used in the PS5 Pro too.
edit: Also WHY would you use either at 1080p??? You're reconstructing from 720p at best in Quality Mode and 540p in Performance!!
edit: Also WHY would you use either at 1080p??? You're reconstructing from 720p at best in Quality Mode and 540p in Performance!!
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Self_Destructive
Member
I believe they're inquiring about FSR2 specifically because it's already integrated into many games. Obviously AMD will be working on an ML based solution to compete with Nvidia and Intel.. but with regards to FSR2, the hope would be that they could improve the algorithm so that all GPUs/consoles which currently support FSR2 will have access to better reconstruction as a baseline. Nobody knows if AMD's new solution will be supported across all those devices.
Leonidas
Member
If that works on old GPUs, then great. If you have to buy a new GPU for it, that's an abysmal solution. Nvidia has had AI hardware in their GPUs since 2018.
Sleepwalker
Member
Leonidas making this thread:
We call that the Nvidia solution, you seem to support that in spades.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What makes you think there is improvement to be made? Without AI, maybe there is so much they can do.
Leonidas
Member
Good thing Nvidia put AI hardware all the way back in 2018 so users don't have to upgrade to get AI upscaling.
If you bought an Nvidia GPU in 2018 you have great AI upscaling today.
If you bought an AMD GPU today, in 2024, you have 3rd rate upscaling... even Intel has AI upscaling today.
Unless you want Frame Generation, which was locked behind 4000 series GPU's despite FSR being able to hook in and work on older GPUs.
Also you realise you've put yourself in a position where you can always dunk on them right? If they DON'T go the AI route and continue with software, you'd hate on them for not being as good as DLSS, and yet when they DO go the AI route, you're hating on them for not doing it sooner. A legit damned if they do, damned if they don't, hating is the only option you can express.
yamaci17
Member
if you're someone who is not going to be able to stomach how 1080p dlss quality looks, chances are you won't able to enjoy native 1080p either. dlss is not the problem there, it will look blurry due to the limitations of 1080p output because 1080p itself is extremely blurry. someone who is used 1080p native taa blurriness will have no problem adapting to dlss quality there and enjoy the framerate boost
it is a meaningful feature for gpus ranging from 2060 to 3050, and for some heavy ray tracing scenarios for 3060/3060ti/3070. 3070 can't get 60 fps with ray tracing at native 1080p in cyberpunk with ray traced global illumination, and with DLSS it can.
for some reason 1080p dlss quality analysis creates some new found recognition how blurry it looks. yet somehow people overlook how blurry 1080p itself looks to begin with. dlss can only do as much as output will allow it to do
even in the video dlss quality most of the time matches native 1080p clarity. games that do not achieve that are the ones that use broken LODs (ac mirage) or uses sharpening for native and not uses sharpening for DLSS, making it an unfair comparison
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
DLSS to fsr3 mod.
dlssg-to-fsr3 (Replace Nvidia DLSS-G Frame Gen with AMD FSR 3 Frame Gen)
Adds AMD FSR 3 Frame Generation to games by replacing Nvidia DLSS-G Frame Generation (nvngx_dlssg).
www.nexusmods.com
Leonidas
Member
That's AMDs fault for being the 3rd GPU manufacturer, behind Nvidia & Intel, to inlcude AI upscaling.
I'm not hating. I feel bad for the AMD GPU owners who may have to upgrade yet again, just to get a feature that already exists on GPUs as far back as 2018.
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LordOfChaos
Member
The interesting thing about the PS5 Pro leak is Sony making their own neural accelerator based upscaling, it's probably based on the core of FSR, but FSR doesn't use any sort of neural engine. So I wonder if Sony wasn't satisfied with AMD's.
FearlessBelgian
Member
For me, DLSS is indispensable. I play with DLDSR and it's a pleasure to combine this technique with DLSS to get the best graphics, incredible sharpness and the highest possible FPS...
YeulEmeralda
Member
Nvidia is the pathway to many abilities some may find unnatural.
Buggy Loop
Member
Fucking redo FSR AMD
FSR 2 upscaler has not been updated since October 2022
Let that sink in
It can’t take that goddamn long to find the AI solution can it? Intel did it.
EverythingsOverrated
Member
Playing Starfield on PC at launch with FSR on at 1440 was when I truly noticed how shit it was in comparison to DLSS. The amount of ghosting was so distracting that I just accepted the lower framerates of playing the game with it turned off.
Self_Destructive
Member
Yes, but likely only at native resolution.. negating the performance improvement.
They are, and it's going to be AI based which will fall back to the basic one if there's no modules for it.
Also, sadly AMD thought that by going Open Source it would lead to more people contributing to it, ...it did not.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Leonidas being a giant NVIDIA Stan doesn't change the fact that FSR is not good enough, DLSS is the superior tech and AMD have admitted as much by announcing they are working on AI upscaling.
FSR was always just a hastily thrown together stop-gap alternate to DLSS, it's got some uses but it doesn't have much of a future in its current form.
FSR was always just a hastily thrown together stop-gap alternate to DLSS, it's got some uses but it doesn't have much of a future in its current form.
Crayon
Member
A friend was just getting back into PC and asked where and and Nvidia are at these days. I described it that you get good deals on year-old amd cards, but Nvidia has way better tech and upscaling that makes up a tier of difference, so it's not as straightforward as it used to be. Probably safer going Nvidia except for Linux or a killer deal on an amd card for e-sports use.
StereoVsn
Member
At the end I think they need dedicated AI compute units in the card. So maybe next gen with next gen of cards, but there is probably only so much you can do with a generalized approach.
Buggy Loop
Member
Especially since RTX have very good improvements in drivers
This site revisited the 4090 versus 7900 XTX with new drivers
Geforce RTX 4090 vs. Radeon RX 7900 XTX: Duell der Topmodelle - Nachtest 2024 [Update]
Nvidia Geforce RTX 4090 gegen AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX: Nachtest mit aktuellen Treibern - wie sehen die Machtverhältnisse 2024 aus?
– 20 games tested with rasterizing, 10 games with ray tracing
– 26 GPUs tested, but focus is on 4090 vs. 7900 XTX (including perf/watt and perf/Euro)
– Almost no CPU limitation due to potent infrastructure and GPU-heavy scenes
– Both IHVs sport more performance than at launch (~same level of benefit)
– Interesting per-game and overall analysis shows single results and relative perf
– RTX 4090 is up to 33 % faster in RZ and up to 89 % at RT (both 4K "Index")
| 4090 vs 7900 XTX | Dec 2022 | March 2024 |
|---|---|---|
| Raster 1440p | +19% | +23% |
| Raster 4k | +28% | +33% |
| RT "performance index overall" (launch review didn't have average for resolutions and I ain't doing the math myself) | +53% | +69% |
| Cyberpunk 4k Raster | +5% | +16% |
| Cyberpunk 4k RT (with FSR UQ in 2022 and upscaling Q in 2024) | +110% | +118% |
Nvidia FineWine™
Sorry AMD, you lost the title.
Unknown Soldier
Member
AMD: "we have AI at home"
Reizo Ryuu
Member
CityHunter1981
Member
This was the main reason why I choose NVIDIA two years ago. Wish AMD and Intel can someday catch up, so we finally have some real competition at reasonable prices.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
I guess I’m the only one that disables all that shit.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
A 4090 stomps all other Nvidia cards as well. A 7900 is in between a 4090 and 4080 not a direct 4090 competitor.Especially since RTX have very good improvements in drivers
This site revisited the 4090 versus 7900 XTX with new drivers
Geforce RTX 4090 vs. Radeon RX 7900 XTX: Duell der Topmodelle - Nachtest 2024 [Update]
Nvidia Geforce RTX 4090 gegen AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX: Nachtest mit aktuellen Treibern - wie sehen die Machtverhältnisse 2024 aus?www.pcgameshardware.de
– 20 games tested with rasterizing, 10 games with ray tracing
– 26 GPUs tested, but focus is on 4090 vs. 7900 XTX (including perf/watt and perf/Euro)
– Almost no CPU limitation due to potent infrastructure and GPU-heavy scenes
– Both IHVs sport more performance than at launch (~same level of benefit)
– Interesting per-game and overall analysis shows single results and relative perf
– RTX 4090 is up to 33 % faster in RZ and up to 89 % at RT (both 4K "Index")
4090 vs 7900 XTX Dec 2022 March 2024 Raster 1440p +19% +23% Raster 4k +28% +33% RT "performance index overall" (launch review didn't have average for resolutions and I ain't doing the math myself) +53% +69% Cyberpunk 4k Raster +5% +16% Cyberpunk 4k RT (with FSR UQ in 2022 and upscaling Q in 2024) +110% +118%
Nvidia FineWine™
Sorry AMD, you lost the title.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
What I'd like to know is why the hell are so many developers still using it? It's their job to know what works well and what doesn't. Alan Wake 2's beautiful visuals are completely ruined on console due to the awful fsr2 implementation.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It's better than the alternatives available to them?
Buggy Loop
Member
Still to showcase the driver improvements, it's widening the gap, that's the gist of it.
And I was shit on in the RDNA 3 thread for the 7900 XTX unveiling for telling them that it's not a 4090 competitor. Repeatedly. Those "up to" figures and napkin maths back then made a whole bunch of peoples on this very forum thinking that the 7900 XTX was within spitting distance. I like to still remind peoples how wrong they were.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Yeah because Nvidia would have been jamming 4090 performance into a $500 console.
phant0m
Member
A 2070 Super is roughly equivalent to PS5 but does a much better job at upscaling/framerate via DLSS.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
And was $500 just for the card with 8 gig of ram.