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[Alcoori]

I think the important thing would be having some ceremony where we can get the family together and everyone can watch our kid have something done to them by some holy person, and then go get cake afterwords...we may be alright :lol

That's kinda how it was for us as kids. More about the tradition than the actual meaning. Got baptized, did our first communion and I did my confirmation, but it was more for the presents than what it represented.
I also kept going to "sunday school" (which was during the week) because they had free snacks and because my friend's mom was teaching it.

Had a talk with my mom the other day about what religion meant to her and how she felt about me being an atheist now. Our family had quite a rocky couple of year and for her I guess that it was a way to get through the rough patch and that anytime she felt really sad, she told me she felt like someone was helping her getting over it. She did say however that me not believing was my own choice and that she didn't think I would go to hell or anything. I think for her religion is more a spiritual connection to something bigger than a literal interpretation of the bible.
My dad is rejecting religion since it's basically what made his brother commit suicide because he was gay and because his family strongly rejected it. I'm not sure if he's still spiritual though, I should ask him.

 

[Keylime]

UU is good about that sort of thing. Most UU congregationalists come from other churches and other faiths, and they've done a good job in giving those people the ritual they are looking for while still keeping the church's "mind" open to new things.

If you're looking for your kids to be exposed to a wide variety of religious opinion, I can't think of a better place for them than a UU church. Heck, UU even welcomes atheists with open arms.

I really need to find a local UU church and sit down with somewhere there to talk this stuff out with my wife.

Would love it, as it sounds like I could give my wife the religious experience she's looking for while not really indoctrinating the kid into a firm belief system....and stuff have little things for the family to get in on.

...we aren't looking to have kids anytime soon (probably a year or two), but it'd be nice to figure this stuff out now.

 

[besada]

I really need to find a local UU church and sit down with somewhere there to talk this stuff out with my wife.

Would love it, as it sounds like I could give my wife the religious experience she's looking for while not really indoctrinating the kid into a firm belief system....and stuff have little things for the family to get in on.

...we aren't looking to have kids anytime soon (probably a year or two), but it'd be nice to figure this stuff out now.

You'll also find that it's a solution made by many interfaith couples. If you live in any reasonable sized community, there should be a local UU church. You can find locations from here. There are seven or eight in the DFW metroplex, where I live.

 

[pnjtony]

I'm glad someone mentioned UU churches. I came back to the thread to do just that.

 

[WrikaWrek]

She's proposed:

* Raise the child as a Catholic, and when they are of the proper age to make an informed decision on their own, allow them to stick with that religion, pursue other religions, or reject religion. The child will understand what it means to be religious, and can ultimately speak from experience if religion works for them or not.

This is such bullish and so biased. Ridiculous.

My father was raised as a catholic and he always had family memebers knee deep in religion, my grandmother is now a hardcore Jeova witness.

My mother is an atheist, even though she was baptized.

When it came to me, they just thought it would be better to leave it on a choice basis for me, because it's the only thing that makes sense. They are who they are and they will raise me based on their values, but they didn't push any kind of religion unto me.

I learned about religion and still to this day i have my grandmother drill my ears about her religious stuff, and yet to this day i can be proud to say that my religious stance is based on a formed opinion.

If you push religion into a child, then it's not real. Religion is found, religion should not be something you force.

 

[greepoman]

I think someone earlier said it...basically anything you teach your kid is "indoctrination" until they reach the age where they can critically think.

What right do you have to "indoctrinate" your kid with your way of logical thinking with ethics and morals, etc? Just for the selfish benefit so he can be a productive member of society?? Why should you deny your kid the opportunity to be a psychopathic serial killer? :lol :lol

Furthermore what if being an immoral, irrational killer is the only way for humans to evolve to immortal beings (ala Stargate) ? You can't disprove that it could happen. Why deny that to your child?

In all seriousness though, being rational and logical kinda sucks at times right? Seeing how the world really works is pretty sickening at times.

 

[Keylime]

You'll also find that it's a solution made by many interfaith couples. If you live in any reasonable sized community, there should be a local UU church. You can find locations from here. There are seven or eight in the DFW metroplex, where I live.

There's actually quite a few around me, one being in a better area and with over 600 members.

I'm currently talking to my wife through work e-mails about considering it as an option, and asking if we could try and arrange a sit-down with some folks there to see if it'd work for us.

After watching their video online about what they're all about, it's hard to throw my arms up in rage over their principles. Seems like they focus much more about being a good member of the world and then tying those experiences back to your personal faith.

They have Sunday services, too, which would be pimp to bring our other relatives to when they come out to visit. Would love to have them sit through something like that and tell me that's it's bullshit :lol

Pretty excited about this...hope it functions like I'm thinking and is accepted by the Mrs.

 

[ZealousD]

I think the important thing would be having some ceremony where we can get the family together and everyone can watch our kid have something done to them by some holy person, and then go get cake afterwords...we may be alright :lol

:lol

Yeah I've seen several child dedications. You go up in front of the congregation, minister says a few words, congregation says a few words, minister waves his hands around, you sit back down.

Can't promise any cake, though.

 

[Keylime]

:lol

Yeah I've seen several child dedications. You go up in front of the congregation, minister says a few words, congregation says a few words, minister waves his hands around, you sit back down.

Can't promise any cake, though.

That'll be at a Chuckee Cheese's afterwords!

...or whatever kids go to these days...:lol

 

[ZealousD]

By the way, you guys are politically liberal, right?

UU members are probably 95% democrats. :lol

 

[The Faceless Master]

I think I missed the punch line.

So is she going to be teaching the kid about other religions as well? Otherwise she is full of it.

FFFFUUUUCCCCKKKK!!!

that's the solution!

tell her your comprimise is you want the kids to learn Islam. that way "The child will understand what it means to be religious, and can ultimately speak from experience if religion works for them or not." is fulfilled.

 

[Keylime]

By the way, you guys are politically liberal, right?

UU members are probably 95% democrats. :lol

I'm politically open (not big on labels), but we'd probably be just fine there. If we had to pick sides, it'd be Dem.

 

[TheExodu5]

Honestly, I think I'd go with her solution. It's what both of my parents did with my brother and myself. At around high school we were allowed to choose whatever we wanted. Both my brother and myself made the decision to reject the church. Now we just go with my mom on Christmas and Easter (it's important to her so we just do it.) My dad is protestant and he'd still go to Catholic service but obviously not take communion.

Other than the fact that I don't have the brother, this is exactly me. Raised as Catholic, though I respect the belief I do not carry it at this point. Dad is Protestant. I go to Church with my mom on Christmas and Easter. :lol

Anyways, I agree with Tenks. You're never giving the kid a chance if he's not raised as a Catholic. He will not be a worse person for attending church. Raise him as a Catholic...the opportunity to reject religion will raise itself on its own if he wishes to do so.

Although I don't consider myself Catholic or religious anymore, I am still grateful that I was raised as one. It does teach a lot of good values and a message of peace (provided you don't live in a backwater redneck community ). Even if I don't believe in it, I still think some religions have great things to offer to certain people.

 

[nyong]

Honestly, both of your solutions seem quite reasonable. If she's worried about being made the bad guy, you could easily offer to put your weight behind forcing the kids to mass as well, even if not attending yourself. Sort of like making them attend school. Which is what taking them to church seems to be all about: perspective/education. Like anything, a lack of perspective/understanding/empathy can breed open hostility. Exposure to religion (imo) is just as important as any other multi-cultural studies.

EDIT: Or you could pop into mass with them irregularly. It wouldn't kill you to go every now and then. I'm an agnostic, but I'll go to church with my parents over the holidays or with friends if they really want me to to hear 'x' sermon. Sometimes it's interesting (not saying mass will be, though).

 

[itsinmyveins]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder what I technically am. I'm not sure. I'm baptized and I am confirmed. I suppose that's mainly due to tradition, because none of my parents are "believers" and I haven't been in a church more than 5-10 times in total, and that's counting in what I mentioned above, a funeral and when we had to go on a field trip to some church during school.

 

[SaggyMonkey]

Maybe working harder at deconverting the wife is the best solution for the kid

 

[besada]

Hmm, this thread makes me wonder what I technically am. I'm not sure. I'm baptized and I am confirmed.

Lapsed Catholic, the best kind.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Lapsed Catholic, the best kind.

Nah, seems to be lutheran from what I can gather.

 

[JimiNutz]

Raise them as Buddhists.
Nobody has to sit through boring mass, and they still get the message that religion can be important in peoples lives, as well as a strong sense of morality.
Plus teaching children to meditate is probably good for their concentration.

 

[Srsly]

This is problematic thinking. The failure rate of religious indoctrination is extremely low, and it is low because they indoctrinate from birth and establish ideas by fiat rather than reason, essentially abusing the same evolved mechanism by which we warn children of life-threatening dangers.

The concern isn't that the individual will become some sort of religious zealot, it's that religion itself is fundamentally invested in a weak ideology that attacks their critical reasoning skills. If it really were strong then there would be no reason to indoctrinate children with ideas that MUST be believed solely because it is special. It's on this last point that the religious will be indignant about because they really believe that they are trying to do good, but what they ignore is the failures of the idea. They like to enjoy the side of the equation that they think is apparently good, while ignoring that their reasoning is flawed and impacts the lives of others greatly.

The attempt to teach children ethics and morality fails when their religious books include militant language and that such rules are explained away as the dictates of a God. This is why you have stupid ideas that without God there is no morality, and why religion is not only not a barrier to unethical behaviour, it may even bolster it.

We see that no matter how strong their belief, even their zealots doubt, because there is always the part of the human brain that rejects this sort of nonsense in most people. They try to embrace this doubt as a sign of faith, but they do so by ultimately distracting themselves from it.

The liberals selectively like to avoid whatever it is they don't like, their beliefs become a casual diversion until their senior years when the end of their lives become more apparent, but ultimately, this doubt is still a source of great fear. The conservatives on the other hand fear the most because they've invested more capital into the belief, have defined themselves by it, and feel that they have everything to lose by it.

While there is some cultural knowledge to be gained from religion, and social value in the interaction (as you would get if you joined any organization), these religions are detrimental. There are certainly worse ideas, especially from the field of politics, but that is no positive.

People have at least one shot at existence, to this I think I can get some agreement. If it is just that one, then that individual to which religion indoctrinates itself into, has been deprived of the opportunity to fully realize that one existence.

Well put

 

[Count Dookkake]

www.christianitymeme.org describes some of the tricks that religion uses to sustain its grip on future generations. Worth a read before you make your decision.

 

[JGS]

Honestly, I don't even know what to say to this. The peer pressure alone can be enough to keep someone from leaving the church or even questioning their beliefs. There's a whole load of people who claim to be christian but don't go to church or follow the teachings, the only reason I can think of them claiming to be christian is to fit in.

The whole concept of organised religion encourages blind faith and a lack of critical thinking. It also encourages forms of racism against other religions, and sexism against women and homosexuals. Personally, I think we'd all be better off without it.

Edit: Atrus, that was a really well thought out post. I enjoyed reading that.

This is incorrect.

Peer pressure is in a lot of places beyond religion. Gaf has it too. In any event peer pressure does not lead to faith in a religion. If anything it causes people to be there without without actual belief - a time waster.

The majority of religions are not racist, bigoted, or anything else contrary to the general population as if any particular group doesn't have a religious belief. The only minority group not to have religion is atheism an believe me you aren't big enough to spout that you are the only non-brainwashed group ot there.

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

If I understand correctly you went into this marriage with your wife understanding that you were Catholic, a lapsed one, but Catholic none the less. You have an obligation to your wife and your marriage that is larger than your personal opinion on the existance of God.

There is only one solution. You follow your wife's wishes. You raise your children Catholic. You get your ass up every Sunday and holy day of obligation and you go to Church as a family. You do not take communion. You send the kids to Catholic school if that's what your wife wants. As your children get older you explain to them how you feel about God and religion without undermining or belittling your wife or the Church and without reference to superstitions, unicorns and leprechauns. You tell them you were raised Catholic but you see no evidence of God in your life so you choose not to believe. You tell them go to Church in support of your wife and your family because that's what a good man does.

When your kids are about to make their Confirmation you explain to them what it means and tell them they can put it off or not do it at all if that's what they want because that's what Confirmation is al about. It's when a child is old enough to make the decision for themselves whether they want to be Catholic.

If you don't think your child is getting enough exposure to other religions or beliefs that's up to you to teach them about. I can tell you when I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's I had to learn about all the reiligions and non-religions of the world everything from Agnosticism-Shintoism.

 

[BrassMonkey1010]

What the hell?

I don't kill or hurt people because killing and hurting is not something I can do. It's far out of my range of abilities. Punishment and reward do not come into it at all.

Anybody is able to hurt someone/something or kill someone/something. You live in a society where it is considered wrong to do these things, and you have to face punishment if you disobey.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

If I understand correctly you went into this marriage with your wife understanding that you were Catholic, a lapsed one, but Catholic none the less. You have an obligation to your wife and your marriage that is larger than your personal opinion on the existance of God.

There is only one solution. You follow your wife's wishes. You raise your children Catholic. You get your ass up every Sunday and holy day of obligation and you go to Church as a family. You do not take communion. You send the kids to Catholic school if that's what your wife wants. As your children get older you explain to them how you feel about God and religion without undermining or belittling your wife or the Church and without reference to superstitions, unicorns and leprechauns. You tell them you were raised Catholic but you see no evidence of God in your life so you choose not to believe. You tell them go to Church in support of your wife and your family because that's what a good man does.

When your kids are about to make their Confirmation you explain to them what it means and tell them they can put it off or not do it at all if that's what they want because that's what Confirmation is al about. It's when a child is old enough to make the decision for themselves whether they want to be Catholic.

If you don't think your child is getting enough exposure to other religions or beliefs that's up to you to teach them about. I can tell you when I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's I had to learn about all the reiligions and non-religions of the world everything from Agnosticism-Shintoism.

If you've read his posts in this thread, he said that his family was only sort of okay with the fact that he wasn't a Catholic when he married her; where in the hell did you get the sense that she thought he was a Catholic?

Seriously, it is completely unfair and unrealistic of his wife to expect him to go to church every Sunday, thereby supporting something in which he actively disbelieves. He has an obligation not to undermine her beliefs, yes, but she concurrently has an obligation not to undermine his; the notion that he has to go to church every Sunday for arbitrary reasons is ridiculous.

 

[Mr Sandman]

I'm pretty much agnostic, but I say let the kid decide. Take him a few times, even if he doesn't understand fully but he likes it, I don't see a problem. It's not like he can't make up his mind once he's matured or whatever.

My mom made me go and I hated it. Probably why I don't care to go back. If she let me decide back then I might have actually wanted to go once in a while. (Mormon btw)

EDIT: Damn didn't realize this was 11 pages. :lol

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

If you've read his posts in this thread, he said that his family was only sort of okay with the fact that he wasn't a Catholic when he married her; where in the hell did you get the sense that she thought he was a Catholic?

Seriously, it is completely unfair and unrealistic of his wife to expect him to go to church every Sunday, thereby supporting something in which he actively disbelieves. He has an obligation not to undermine her beliefs, yes, but she concurrently has an obligation not to undermine his; the notion that he has to go to church every Sunday for arbitrary reasons is ridiculous.

I don't have the time to read every post in this thread. I got that idea from his first couple posts where he said he only became an athiest within the last couple years and it was only recently that he was able to come clean with his family about his beliefs.

Your opinion is highly immature. It's not about supporting something he actively disbelieves (how is someone an "active" athiest anyway?) This is about being a good husband and supporting his family. There is nothing arbitrary about teaching your children what makes a good marriage. Grow up.

 

[Monocle]

This is problematic thinking. The failure rate of religious indoctrination is extremely low, and it is low because they indoctrinate from birth and establish ideas by fiat rather than reason, essentially abusing the same evolved mechanism by which we warn children of life-threatening dangers.

The concern isn't that the individual will become some sort of religious zealot, it's that religion itself is fundamentally invested in a weak ideology that attacks their critical reasoning skills. If it really were strong then there would be no reason to indoctrinate children with ideas that MUST be believed solely because it is special. It's on this last point that the religious will be indignant about because they really believe that they are trying to do good, but what they ignore is the failures of the idea. They like to enjoy the side of the equation that they think is apparently good, while ignoring that their reasoning is flawed and impacts the lives of others greatly.

The attempt to teach children ethics and morality fails when their religious books include militant language and that such rules are explained away as the dictates of a God. This is why you have stupid ideas that without God there is no morality, and why religion is not only not a barrier to unethical behaviour, it may even bolster it.

We see that no matter how strong their belief, even their zealots doubt, because there is always the part of the human brain that rejects this sort of nonsense in most people. They try to embrace this doubt as a sign of faith, but they do so by ultimately distracting themselves from it.

The liberals selectively like to avoid whatever it is they don't like, their beliefs become a casual diversion until their senior years when the end of their lives become more apparent, but ultimately, this doubt is still a source of great fear. The conservatives on the other hand fear the most because they've invested more capital into the belief, have defined themselves by it, and feel that they have everything to lose by it.

While there is some cultural knowledge to be gained from religion, and social value in the interaction (as you would get if you joined any organization), these religions are detrimental. There are certainly worse ideas, especially from the field of politics, but that is no positive.

People have at least one shot at existence, to this I think I can get some agreement. If it is just that one, then that individual to which religion indoctrinates itself into, has been deprived of the opportunity to fully realize that one existence.

I'd like to be the next person to highlight this post. Very good points, well stated.

If I understand correctly you went into this marriage with your wife understanding that you were Catholic, a lapsed one, but Catholic none the less. You have an obligation to your wife and your marriage that is larger than your personal opinion on the existance of God.
[snip]

Really? Would the obligation hold if the wife were a dedicated teabagger or a Satanist instead of a Catholic? To be logically consistent, wouldn't your assertion have to apply to any major philosophical or political ideology he and his wife once shared?

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I don't have the time to read every post in this thread. I got that idea from his first couple posts where he said he only became an athiest within the last couple years and it was only recently that he was able to come clean with his family about his beliefs.

Your opinion is highly immature. It's not about supporting something he actively disbelieves (how is someone an "active" athiest anyway?) This is about being a good husband and supporting his family. There is nothing arbitrary about teaching your children what makes a good marriage. Grow up.

Please. Being a 'good husband' is not blindly deferring to your wife's every wish; if it were, marriage would be way easier. If he truly believes that his child will be negatively affected by being raised in the Catholic tradition (and based on his responses in this thread and the responses of some others, that is not an unfounded fear), why should he sit back and let her take the lead on this? Marriage is a partnership; both members have to come together to make decisions. He has an obligation to be a good husband, yes, but she has an equal obligation to be a good wife; part of that is respecting his wishes in the same way that he respects hers.

 

[silverbullet1080]

Seriously, it is completely unfair and unrealistic of his wife to expect him to go to church every Sunday, thereby supporting something in which he actively disbelieves. He has an obligation not to undermine her beliefs, yes, but she concurrently has an obligation not to undermine his; the notion that he has to go to church every Sunday for arbitrary reasons is ridiculous.

This. His wife doesn't want the kid to think that "mommy's wrong", but it's unfair for the kids to think their father is wrong too.

 

[Undeux]

Whatever the solution ends up being, anything that ends up with you having to grudgingly go to mass is a bad idea. Having that kind of resentment building up for years sounds risky.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Anybody is able to hurt someone/something or kill someone/something. You live in a society where it is considered wrong to do these things, and you have to face punishment if you disobey.

This assumes that the punishment is the reason for not doing these things rather than just an extra detail that happens to be there.

If we lived in anarchy without care, I still wouldn't kill anyone else unless they were threatening my own life.

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

Please. Being a 'good husband' is not blindly deferring to your wife's every wish; if it were, marriage would be way easier. If he truly believes that his child will be negatively affected by being raised in the Catholic tradition (and based on his responses in this thread and the responses of some others, that is not an unfounded fear), why should he sit back and let her take the lead on this? Marriage is a partnership; both members have to come together to make decisions. He has an obligation to be a good husband, yes, but she has an equal obligation to be a good wife; part of that is respecting his wishes in the same way that he respects hers.

You guys sound like a bunch of children. It isn't about who's wrong or who's right. Yes marriage is a partnership. You make compromises on what sort of car you buy, where you live, what you spend on groceries, where your career goes, and more importantly you make sacrifices when it comes to what's really important. This is one he has to make.

He knew going into this marriage that his wife is Catholic, her family is Catholic and his family is Catholic. It doesn't matter how ardently they follow or don't follow their religion. Based on that information and what he wrote in his second post, I'm assuming he went through pre-Cana, and he was married by a priest in a Catholic Church. If he went through all that and never made a peep about his true beliefs, never made it clear to the priest or her family how he felt about the faith he was raised in prior to the marriage then he's a coward and has no basis for putting his foot down here. If his wife relents and he gets his way he's going to cause friction between him and his wife, his wife and her family and himself and her family. It's an incredibly shitty and childish thing to do, very selfish. Part of being married and having children is being selfless.

If his wife were a teabagger/Satanist from a family of teabagger/Satanists and he went through the motions to marry this girl he'd have an obligation to defer to his wife's wishes on this point. He doesn't have to be a teabagger/satanist himself, but he is obligated to show support and not undermine his wife's wishes. Going to Church as a family, even if it's the Church of Satan is not going to do any damage to his family, only strengthen it. He's going to teach them tolerance, and what makes for a good marriage. He should explain to his children what he does/doesn't believe without speaking in absolute terms and giving his wife and her beliefs respect. At the appropriate time (Confirmation) he should have a long talk with the child and let them make the choice for themselves. His children and his wife and her family will respect him for it. Arguing this point with her even if it doesn't lead to divorce can do nothing but create animosity. Sometimes being a man means doing what's right by the people you love, not doing what's important to you.

 

[MikeOfTheLivingDead]

Whatever the solution ends up being, anything that ends up with you having to grudgingly go to mass is a bad idea. Having that kind of resentment building up for years sounds risky.

Don't do it grudingly. That's a concious decision you make for yourself. You can get up in the morning and think to yourself "fucking church what a waste of an hour, why does that bitch make me go through this every week?" Or, you can get up and go with the understanding that you are sacrifing an hour of your time a a week for the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. The choice is completely up to you.

 

[WrikaWrek]

If I understand correctly you went into this marriage with your wife understanding that you were Catholic, a lapsed one, but Catholic none the less. You have an obligation to your wife and your marriage that is larger than your personal opinion on the existance of God.

There is only one solution. You follow your wife's wishes. You raise your children Catholic. You get your ass up every Sunday and holy day of obligation and you go to Church as a family. You do not take communion. You send the kids to Catholic school if that's what your wife wants. As your children get older you explain to them how you feel about God and religion without undermining or belittling your wife or the Church and without reference to superstitions, unicorns and leprechauns. You tell them you were raised Catholic but you see no evidence of God in your life so you choose not to believe. You tell them go to Church in support of your wife and your family because that's what a good man does.

When your kids are about to make their Confirmation you explain to them what it means and tell them they can put it off or not do it at all if that's what they want because that's what Confirmation is al about. It's when a child is old enough to make the decision for themselves whether they want to be Catholic.

If you don't think your child is getting enough exposure to other religions or beliefs that's up to you to teach them about. I can tell you when I went to Catholic school in the 70's and 80's I had to learn about all the reiligions and non-religions of the world everything from Agnosticism-Shintoism.

Let's drastically change the full lives just to appease to someone, that's your opinion. Good lord, i could hit you.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

You guys sound like a bunch of children. It isn't about who's wrong or who's right. Yes marriage is a partnership. You make compromises on what sort of car you buy, where you live, what you spend on groceries, where your career goes, and more importantly you make sacrifices when it comes to what's really important. This is one he has to make.

He knew going into this marriage that his wife is Catholic, her family is Catholic and his family is Catholic. It doesn't matter how ardently they follow or don't follow their religion. Based on that information and what he wrote in his second post, I'm assuming he went through pre-Cana, and he was married by a priest in a Catholic Church. If he went through all that and never made a peep about his true beliefs, never made it clear to the priest or her family how he felt about the faith he was raised in prior to the marriage then he's a coward and has no basis for putting his foot down here. If his wife relents and he gets his way he's going to cause friction between him and his wife, his wife and her family and himself and her family. It's an incredibly shitty and childish thing to do, very selfish. Part of being married and having children is being selfless.

If his wife were a teabagger/Satanist from a family of teabagger/Satanists and he went through the motions to marry this girl he'd have an obligation to defer to his wife's wishes on this point. He doesn't have to be a teabagger/satanist himself, but he is obligated to show support and not undermine his wife's wishes. Going to Church as a family, even if it's the Church of Satan is not going to do any damage to his family, only strengthen it. He's going to teach them tolerance, and what makes for a good marriage. He should explain to his children what he does/doesn't believe without speaking in absolute terms and giving his wife and her beliefs respect. At the appropriate time (Confirmation) he should have a long talk with the child and let them make the choice for themselves. His children and his wife and her family will respect him for it. Arguing this point with her even if it doesn't lead to divorce can do nothing but create animosity. Sometimes being a man means doing what's right by the people you love, not doing what's important to you.

You are putting the entire onus on him, though. From what he has said, his wife and his family KNEW going into the marriage that he believed differently than him.

 

[Pangya]

Taken from http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml:


8. When a Catholic marries a non-Catholic, must the non-Catholic promise to raise the children in the Catholic faith?

The non-Catholic spouse does not have to promise to have the children raised Catholic. The Catholic spouse must promise to do all that he or she can to have the children baptized and raised in the Catholic faith.


Assuming your wife is really a practicing Catholic, if I was in your position I would let her raise the kid Catholic. She is obligated to do so in the Catholic faith.

However, I wouldn't really know what to do in your position since I was raised Catholic by Catholic parents. I went to Catholic elementary and high school. It wasn't until high school that I really learned about all other religions (taught in the religion class). I'd say 80% of my friends in high school weren't Catholic, but were only going there for education reasons. Since I am still a practicing Catholic today, if I were to marry a non Catholic I would sincerely hope they would let me attempt to raise the kids Catholic and let them decide for themselves when the time comes.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I have said this a million times. I was raised pretty much like this my father is an atheist, my mother is agnostic. I never attended church as a child, Christmas was about commercialism and Santa, Easter was about the Easter Bunny.

I am now a praticing Catholic, found the Church at about 15. In all honesty it is almost like if you want your kid to be an atheist when they get older raise them with religion and vice versa :lol

I really do find that wird.

you know, this is probably true to a large extent.

both finding and leaving religion is a vindicating experience that people like to have.

 

[milkyjay20]

whatever happens, you'll bend to her will because you're a man of the modern age.

what you should do is show her jesus' sermon on the mount. yes, going to church is not christ-approved, and prayer is between you and god, in the privacy of your own room.

if you let her take your kids to church, then you're just punking out. do you really want your kids to be propagandized? what, they don't get it enough from the tv? you have to put your foot down.

introduce god into their lives yourselves. so what if you think there is no god. there's no santa claus or easter bunny either, but they're real to children. talk to them about the good qualities, like heaven and being a good person and such. not "you must worship jesus or consider yourself hellbound." and not all the time, just introduce the idea. don't go and try to shove it down their throats. then when they get older, they'll know about it, know that there's no real proof of god (as it should be, it's called faith for a reason), and then make their choice. but above all, it must be up to them.

it'll be a disaster if they go to church. they will grow up in one or two ways. the first, your average bible thumping retard, checking their watch for the endtimes, for jesus to magically whisk them away to never never land. the second, your average bitter atheist gaffer, who just loves science but couldn't tell you the process of photosynthesis if their lives depended on it. one way or another, a tool will be built. church is just plain stupid, boring, a waste of time, it's just fucking stupid

 

[-COOLIO-]

You think peace, prosperity and comfort are guaranteed?

In 50 years there'll be about 10 billion people on this planet. I give peace and prosperity until the year 2100.

if we keep our shit together, which i think we will, more people just means more minds. 2100 is a long time away though but a full century of relative peace would certainly be awesome. and at some point the pop will level off.

 

[Undeux]

Don't do it grudingly. That's a concious decision you make for yourself. You can get up in the morning and think to yourself "fucking church what a waste of an hour, why does that bitch make me go through this every week?" Or, you can get up and go with the understanding that you are sacrifing an hour of your time a a week for the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. The choice is completely up to you.

I totally agree, but that's not something you can easily switch on and off. I'm just saying that if that's how it would be, don't do it.

 

[Pandaman]

You guys sound like a bunch of children. It isn't about who's wrong or who's right. Yes marriage is a partnership. You make compromises on what sort of car you buy, where you live, what you spend on groceries, where your career goes, and more importantly you make sacrifices when it comes to what's really important. This is one he has to make.

He knew going into this marriage that his wife is Catholic, her family is Catholic and his family is Catholic. It doesn't matter how ardently they follow or don't follow their religion. Based on that information and what he wrote in his second post, I'm assuming he went through pre-Cana, and he was married by a priest in a Catholic Church. If he went through all that and never made a peep about his true beliefs, never made it clear to the priest or her family how he felt about the faith he was raised in prior to the marriage then he's a coward and has no basis for putting his foot down here. If his wife relents and he gets his way he's going to cause friction between him and his wife, his wife and her family and himself and her family. It's an incredibly shitty and childish thing to do, very selfish. Part of being married and having children is being selfless.

If his wife were a teabagger/Satanist from a family of teabagger/Satanists and he went through the motions to marry this girl he'd have an obligation to defer to his wife's wishes on this point. He doesn't have to be a teabagger/satanist himself, but he is obligated to show support and not undermine his wife's wishes. Going to Church as a family, even if it's the Church of Satan is not going to do any damage to his family, only strengthen it. He's going to teach them tolerance, and what makes for a good marriage. He should explain to his children what he does/doesn't believe without speaking in absolute terms and giving his wife and her beliefs respect. At the appropriate time (Confirmation) he should have a long talk with the child and let them make the choice for themselves. His children and his wife and her family will respect him for it. Arguing this point with her even if it doesn't lead to divorce can do nothing but create animosity. Sometimes being a man means doing what's right by the people you love, not doing what's important to you.

a compromise that is entirely one sided isn't a compromise, the wife has an equal responsibility to respect his beliefs and his desire to raise his child as he wishes. they have to work together for a solution that works for both of them.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Since I am still a practicing Catholic today, if I were to marry a non Catholic I would sincerely hope they would let me attempt to raise the kids Catholic and let them decide for themselves when the time comes.

"I would want my kids to decide for themselves when the time comes, but first i would like to have the opportunity to try and shape how they think about it, so that when they decide they decide correctly."

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Don't do it grudingly. That's a concious decision you make for yourself. You can get up in the morning and think to yourself "fucking church what a waste of an hour, why does that bitch make me go through this every week?" Or, you can get up and go with the understanding that you are sacrifing an hour of your time a a week for the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with. The choice is completely up to you.

The choice of deluding yourself or being miserable about it? Brilliant.

I love how if one partner is religious and the other isn't, 99% of the time it's the non-religious one making the big compromises. Look at it this way - she KNEW going in that she was marrying an atheist; now she has to make the compromises to deal with that.

 

[milkyjay20]

"I would want my kids to decide for themselves when the time comes, but first i would like to have the opportunity to try and shape how they think about it, so that when they decide they decide correctly."

lol exactly

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

a compromise that is entirely one sided isn't a compromise, the wife has an equal responsibility to respect his beliefs and his desire to raise his child as he wishes. they have to work together for a solution that works for both of them.

Thank you. That's all that I'm trying to say. We've had many pages of nuanced responses in which people have spoke about their experiences with this situation and their own opinions, and we get called childish for not taking on an absolute position that requires the OP to sacrifice his ideals when him and his wife already seem to be on the way to finding a somewhat moderate solution (such as the idea of raising the kid in the Unitarian Universalist faith).

 

[Wickerbasket]

This is incorrect.

Peer pressure is in a lot of places beyond religion. Gaf has it too. In any event peer pressure does not lead to faith in a religion. If anything it causes people to be there without without actual belief - a time waster.

The majority of religions are not racist, bigoted, or anything else contrary to the general population as if any particular group doesn't have a religious belief. The only minority group not to have religion is atheism an believe me you aren't big enough to spout that you are the only non-brainwashed group ot there.

For the bolded, I never said that. I said that peer pressure can be enough to keep someone from leaving the church or to stop them from questioning their beliefs. It's like group think, everyone else believes it so why shouldn't you. It's why religions, like scientology and friends, are so successful despite how silly they are.

And I wouldn't dream to say that there's any non-brainwashed group in society. We're brainwashed every day by advertisement companies as one example. It's just that religion, in particular, encourages blind faith and a lack of critical thinking. These arn't traits that we should encourage. Christianity, in particular, also encourages hate against homosexuals and leads to many being repressed.

 

[JGS]

For the bolded, I never said that. I said that peer pressure can be enough to keep someone from leaving the church or to stop them from questioning their beliefs. It's like group think, everyone else believes it so why shouldn't you. It's why religions, like scientology and friends, are so successful despite how silly they are.

And I wouldn't dream to say that there's any non-brainwashed group in society. We're brainwashed every day by advertisement companies as one example. It's just that religion, in particular, encourages blind faith and a lack of critical thinking. These arn't traits that we should encourage. Christianity, in particular, also encourages hate against homosexuals and leads to many being repressed.

Oops, my mistake. That's what I get for trying to converse on a cell phone.

I agreed that it's enough to keep someone from leaving or getting someone to join. That's the point of peer pressure in all it's forms. But it doesn't convert them is my argument which was pointless.:lol

I still think you are incorrect about the blind faith...sort of. The way I see it, you can't blame religion for another person's weakness. Religion did not cause that weakness, the weak one just fell for it.

I think most people worship blindly because they don't want to know any better, but most religions work to explain their beliefs (They may not make sense, but that's another issue). I know mine does. There are libraries worth of information on why the Catholic Church believes what they do. I could go online right now and find out if I had the slightest interest in Catholicism.

There's no way the future kids of the OP will be brainwashed because the mother kind of already compromised too much. Most kids with two parents of the same faith do want they want when grown, that will be the case in this scenario too. If they choose to be Catholics, then it would be their honest choice even if others think it is the wrong one.

It's the congregants that are blissful because they want to keep doing what they want. But that's beside the point too since I still don't see what the inherent danger of being religious is unless it teaches harm to others.

Christianity does not teach hate against homosexuals. There are plenty of them that allow gay people. There are plenty of Christian families that have gay members that are still loved. Trust me on that. What many don't do is marry them, but even some churches do that including an entire religion. The original misogynistic SOB Christian himself, Paul, preached to gay people. However, Biblically speaking, homosexual acts appear to be a no-no - no argument there.

However, this still doesn't mean that most (like 99%) of churches out there are teaching that violence is the solution to the "gay" problem or that I'm not allowed to befriend them.

 

[JGS]

you know, this is probably true to a large extent.

both finding and leaving religion is a vindicating experience that people like to have.

What worked for me was leaving a religion that made no sense to me personally, trying no religion on for size, & then coming back to a different religion that made sense.

 

[soul creator]

:lol this song just came on while I was reading this thread

completely random, I swear!