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[Unknown?]

If Dave Ballard posts evidence now Sony and ND are gonna look like trash

Not really, the HR rep who covered it up did.

 

[privitsan02]

But it was on twitter !

Why would David lie !!??

I think it's justified to question David, but also wrong to belittle the man. We should just let the situation unfold by itself and see where it leads to.

Sexual allegations are tough. He risked his reputation by doing this and is a brave man to step up and letting his voice be heard. He needs to back up his claims and get a lawyer but if he's been unemployed for 14-17 months, it's going to be very hard.

He deserves empathy and respect, but isn't immune from questioning or people simply not believing him.

Best wishes.

 

[GLAMr]

I have worked in HR for a very large organisation (as in thousands of employees) and spent some time working in comms, and I just don't believe they could have investigated this thoroughly enough to announce "no evidence" in such a short time period. No matter how good your filing/records management/email search systems are, there's no way you could exhaustively rule out any trace of a complaint so quickly. People move on, screw up their filing, leave stuff in personal inboxes and forget etc. I've had to spend weeks poring over email trails, old files, post it notes and diaries to substantiate/rule out harassment claims.

As far as I'm concerned, what's missing from this message is an indication that the investigation of David's claims is ongoing (as it absolutely should be). While Sony/ND should be presumed innocent until guilty, the claimant should also be presumed innocent of fabrication/lying until proven otherwise.

 

[DataGhost]

I take Jason at his word, no reason not to.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=252111374

You must forgive me if I don't know the credibility of this person. If the press had recieved it, then I guess we'll see articles of it tomorrow

 

[ronaldthump]

I think it's justified to question David, but also wrong to belittle the man. We should just let the situation unfold by itself and see where it leads to.

Sexual allegations are tough. He risked his reputation by doing this and is a brave man to step up and letting his voice be heard. He needs to back up his claims and get a lawyer but if he's been unemployed for 14-17 months, it's going to be very hard.

He deserves empathy and respect, but isn't immune from questioning or people simply not believing him.

Best wishes.

He worked somewhere after ND - go look up this thread. So his stories, aren't 100% true.

 

[MrCaliaztec]

You must forgive me if I don't know the credibility of this person. If the press had recieved it, then I guess we'll see articles of it tomorrow

He's the editor of Kotaku

 

[ronaldthump]

Many of you in this thread are being absolutely ridiculous and unreasonable.


Here are the only pieces of information we have:
1) David Ballard makes allegation of sexual harassment on his public twitter account

2) ND releases statement that there is no evidence they could find regarding any harassment complaint being made.


Seems a perfect situation for a wait and see approach, to see if more evidence is uncovered.

Instead, this thread is filled with:
-Assumption of guilt for Sony and ND
-Claims of a huge conspiracy and coverup, including documents being destroyed by HR
- Talk about boycotting ND and Sony
- Outrage over ND using David’s name in their statement despite him making the allegation on his public twitter account. Nearly all of us knew who was making the allegation before ND ever released a statement, but suddenly here’s an outrage they used his name?

And of course the completely unfair and unreasonable assumption that since the Weinstein issue is prevalent right now, suddenly every accusation made right now is assumed true.



I’m not saying it didn’t happen. I’m not saying it did. I’m saying no one here has ANY clue what did or didn’t happen, and should probably not be commenting with such strong opinions

QFT

 

[pixelation]

Do companies actually expect us to believe the “we’ve investigated ourselves and have found nothing wrong” bit? We need more proof than that.

What do you suggest?, how long do you think it takes to go through the records to see if such an incident was reported to them?, evenmore so with the damage this can potentially cause to ND and Sony?

 

[nynt9]

Ok, so this is how it would have gone:

Social media team within MarComms are made aware of the tweet.

They escalate to their team senior on duty at the weekend.

They will then have their own reporting tree for a situation like this, and will have contacted the senior management team & legal.

An HR person will have been tasked with reviewing submitted complaints - if they’re using a common HR system across Sony that would take about 5 minutes, as any filed communications would have been held digitally.

They didn’t find any filed complaints, convey this to the legal & management team, the PR team roll up a statement, that gets approved by legal & sent out to relevant press contacts.

It very clearly states that there is no evidence of a complaint being made. My assumption would be Sony have a specific process for reporting workplace misconduct, that it was investigated if this process was followed, and the response based on that.

This is what I assumed the process looked like as well. But where things can get murky is if the HR person David was talking to made no note of the harassment, called someone else on the DL, and got David fired, with no paper trail relating to the harassment. This isn't very easy, but it's the only explanation I can think of that reconciles both perspectives' accounts. In this case going deeper into who fired David and why might be worth investigating further on ND's part.

 

[DataGhost]

He's the editor of Kotaku

As I said, forgive me for not knowing their credentials. I don't know specifics about most GAF users

 

[privitsan02]

He worked somewhere after ND - go look up this thread. So his stories, aren't 100% true.

I know, I've commented on that. Which is why I'm saying 14-17 months of unemployment instead of the 17 months that he mentioned.

I also mentioned that it's possible that he was under probation at that development studio and things likely didn't work out. For someone likely still living in LA, those are not good and stable circumstances.

Some might say the man is now desperate with his situation and doing this for attention but no sane person with a career would risk their reputation and be blacklisted by bringing this up on social media without solid reasoning or some truth to the matter. Even if he doesn't have enough proof to justify what happened at Naughty Dog.

We don't have enough information to go and belittle this man or take up our pitchforks and burn down Naughty Dog and Sony. People calling for boycotts are just as bad as those going in on David, (even though I haven't seen the latter happen much in this thread at all).

Best wishes.

 

[MrCaliaztec]

As I said, forgive me for not knowing their credentials. I don't know specifics about most GAF users

No worries just giving you the info this man more then likely received this statement personally from Sony/ND and if they are writing an article will be no wash over or mere tweet and ND response they will try to get more info before making an article it tends to be their fashion.

 

[Laughing Banana]

This is such a sickening response. Someone accused Ben Affleck, a person who did something to another person. He admitted to it because he was called out on his action. Do you know the name of the person who committed this disgusting act to David or is this person ND and Sony?

Is it really "sickening" to put more trust to folks coming out saying they're sexually harassed than the big company claiming innocence in the matters such as these?

Hopefully people experiencing sexual harassment in the industry, should they ever read the whole thing in GAF, are not discouraged to coming forward with their stories, because I can see that they might.

And hopefully David can find peace with that kind of story on his belt.

 

[DataGhost]

No worries just giving you the info this man more then likely received this statement personally from Sony/ND and if they are writing an article will be no wash over or mere tweet and ND response they will try to get more info before making an article it tends to be their fashion.

Thank you. I do await to hear more from others' investigation into the matter so that more light can be shed on this information

 

[exmachina64]

There's nothing Naive about it... he posted tweets with no physical evidence and look at people foaming at the mouth.

I don't see why someone would lie about being harassed and if he really was hope he has some way to prove it.

But let's be real adults who can think clearly and critically about the situation based on what we have... we have absolutely nothing to logically take one side over the other especially when the accusers time table has been disputed with clear facts that shows he's worked at an indie company after being let go... and either forgot about this period, or just negated to mention it.

We need more details from both sides and we can in no logical way say either side is being truthful.

I highlighted and am speaking specifically to the fact that you believe that everyone can expect a fair trial and no one is presumed guilty. There are enough innocent people in prison to disabuse you of that notion.

 

[kyser73]

This is what I assumed the process looked like as well. But where things can get murky is if the HR person David was talking to made no note of the harassment, called someone else on the DL, and got David fired, with no paper trail relating to the harassment. This isn't very easy, but it's the only explanation I can think of that reconciles both perspectives' accounts. In this case going deeper into who fired David and why might be worth investigating further on ND's part.

My thinking too - the HR person concerned completely went around any process the company had.

The n that situation the key part of the puzzle will be the sign-off for the redundancy notice & payout - and there will a trail for that as someone in finance will have had to approve be it.

But that is a whole other can of worms.

 

[MrCaliaztec]

I highlighted and am speaking specifically to the fact that you believe that everyone can expect a fair trial and no one is presumed guilty. There are enough innocent people in prison to disabuse you of that notion.

The fact that there are exceptions to the rules and foul play can be done by people and corporations does not mean we just throw out our ability to react neutrally and want to see proof of guilt. I mean your entire point can work both ways for either side since we do not know which side is really innocent.

Could you imagine being falsely accused of something and having the majority of your peers calling for the end of you based on accusations... that don't fully prove what they are accusing you of? We need to see something damning...

If it did happen to him and he has no proof that is a terrible thing and sorely hope he has some sort of evidence or proof in some way. But as it stands any logical cant come to a conclusion and should just be wanting and waitin for more information.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Is it really "sickening" to put more trust to folks coming out saying they're sexually harassed than the big company claiming innocence in the matters such as these?

Hopefully people experiencing sexual harassment in the industry, should they ever read the whole thing in GAF, are not discouraged to coming forward with their stories, because I can see that they might.

And hopefully David can find peace with that kind of story on his belt.

But be real, you didn't come into this thread even concerned about him but latched on to the very few comments in which idk, maybe you viewed people who are holding out for more information, branding them as whatever fanboy nonsense and attaching some console warrior tilt to it. If that's the way you want to come into the thread, then it is sickening.

At the end of the day, the company did NOT sexually assault David but someone did and that person has yet to come forward or even be named. We don't know what his position was, what his title is and how much influence he had for such a decision to be made.... especially for it to not have some sort of paper trail. So to come in here and say "Well the other thread took the women's accusation with no argument but here, it seems like people are more concerned with taking the side of the company" is so whack to me. At least we KNOW who did what...we don't know here.

ND and Sony are just doing what they need to do on legal grounds, but umm.., that doesn't change the fact that this person exist and probably is still on the payroll or exist somewhere else where this is also happening and we need to know who that is. I want my pitchforks to make sure that person is out of a job rather than David because people believe he's lying. I believe him and I want to know who I need to direct my anger to.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

My thinking too - the HR person concerned completely went around any process the company had.

The n that situation the key part of the puzzle will be the sign-off for the redundancy notice & payout - and there will a trail for that as someone in finance will have had to approve be it.

But that is a whole other can of worms.

They wouldn't need to sign off for redundancy pay. It would be part of his contract. Calling it hush money is over simplifying what is very likely to be the standard severance package that comes with the stipulation not to talk shit about the company.

 

[Laughing Banana]

But be real, you didn't come into this thread even concerned about him but latched on to the very few comments in which idk, maybe you viewed people who are holding out for more information, branding them as whatever fanboy nonsense and attaching some console warrior tilt to it. If that's the way you want to come into the thread, then it is sickening.

Say whatever you want about me, but that one I find really unacceptable. As if I consider matters of fanboyism are above matters of people being sexually harassed, especially considering I have been personally involved with events similar as this where companies are trying to shove/dismisses cases of sexual harassment happening in their buildings just because they want to do nothing about it.

They wouldn't need to sign off for redundancy pay. It would be part of his contract. Calling it hush money is over simplifying what is very likely to be the standard severance package that comes with the stipulation not to talk shit about the company.

So basically, "hush money"

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

My thinking too - the HR person concerned completely went around any process the company had.

The n that situation the key part of the puzzle will be the sign-off for the redundancy notice & payout - and there will a trail for that as someone in finance will have had to approve be it.

But that is a whole other can of worms.

If he was fired from ND then there are papers stating why and how he got fired. He was paid in severance, it's law in California, and had been given a statement/ letter on why he was let go (a termination of employment letter most likely that he had to sign to get his severance pay like any corporate job). Besides, how else you gonna live in LA for 17 months without a job, 😂?

Why doesn't he show these papers at least?

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

Say whatever you want about me, but that one I find really unacceptable. As if I consider matters of fanboyism are above matters of people being sexually harassed, especially considering I have been personally involved with events similar as this where companies are trying to shove/dismisses cases of sexual harassment happening in their buildings just because they want to do nothing about it.


So basically, "hush money"

Uhh.. no, it's so you won't try to sue over the work you've done for the company. That's why it's called severance. Do you know what it means to "sever ties" ? Both parties sever ties and not left without nothing on both ends..

People need to start reading more than Final Fantasy manuscripts. Lol

Edit: Sorry for the double post! 😬

 

[mrk8885]

At the end of the day, the company did NOT sexually assault David but someone did and that person has yet to come forward or even be named. We don't know what his position was, what his title is and how much influence he had for such a decision to be made.... especially for it to not have some sort of paper trail. So to come in here and say "Well the other thread took the women's accusation with no argument but here, it seems like people are more concerned with taking the side of the company" is so whack to me. At least we KNOW who did what...we don't know here.

ND and Sony are just doing what they need to do on legal grounds, but umm.., that doesn't change the fact that this person exist and probably is still on the payroll or exist somewhere else where this is also happening and we need to know who that is. I want my pitchforks to make sure that person is out of a job rather than David because people believe he's lying. I believe him and I want to know who I need to direct my anger to.

Another person jumping right to the whole guilty thing. You’re missing just a few steps there. Hope you’re never on a jury.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Uhh.. no, it's so you won't try to sue over the work you've done for the company. That's why it's called severance. Do you know what it means to "sever ties" ? Both parties sever ties and not left without nothing on both ends..

People need to start reading more than Final Fantasy manuscripts. Lol

Edit: Sorry for the double post! ��

What, you think that it's okay for him then to talk about the sexual harassment then? Or is that still included with the "work he's done for the company"? If the by-effect of him accepting the money is that he's not allowed to speak out about the sexual harassment, then how is it not hush money?

 

[WaterAstro]

I have worked in HR for a very large organisation (as in thousands of employees) and spent some time working in comms, and I just don't believe they could have investigated this thoroughly enough to announce "no evidence" in such a short time period. No matter how good your filing/records management/email search systems are, there's no way you could exhaustively rule out any trace of a complaint so quickly. People move on, screw up their filing, leave stuff in personal inboxes and forget etc. I've had to spend weeks poring over email trails, old files, post it notes and diaries to substantiate/rule out harassment claims.

As far as I'm concerned, what's missing from this message is an indication that the investigation of David's claims is ongoing (as it absolutely should be). While Sony/ND should be presumed innocent until guilty, the claimant should also be presumed innocent of fabrication/lying until proven otherwise.

I don't think that's how it works when it comes to damaging accusations.

The accuser has the onus to be proven right. Atm, we'll consider him innocent, but as time goes on and nothing comes out of him, he will be deemed guilty by the community.

 

[schaft0620]

Not that I'm doubting the accuser, I would just prefer that vindication would come in a court room instead of Twitter. It sounds like limitations would still stand.

Also, I don't feel warm and fuzzy about Naughty Dog anymore. They were one of the most highly regarded development studious in the country. Now with this and the changes at every level there's this black cloud.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Say whatever you want about me, but that one I find really unacceptable. As if I consider matters of fanboyism are above matters of people being sexually harassed, especially considering I have been personally involved with events similar as this where companies are trying to shove/dismisses cases of sexual harassment happening in their buildings just because they want to do nothing about it.



So basically, "hush money"

Look over your first post and then choose how you want to feel about my observation.

I'm not questioning what you do in general on this subject and I applaud you if you are trying to make a difference. but I'm sorry if your first post did not read like something that seemed concerned with the situation at hand but instead, on which side people are choosing to take because of a "video game company".

Another person jumping right to the whole guilty thing. You’re missing just a few steps there. Hope you’re never on a jury.

I'd be just fine on a jury as at least at that point, we would have a name of the defendant and the prosecution and evidence to explain what happened. Much more than what we have right now here but want to absolutely get to the bottom of. I don't believe people have reason to lie about sexual assault but I don't feel good about knowing this potential person could do more damage to others.

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

What, you think that it's okay for him then to talk about the sexual harassment then? Or is that still included with the "work he's done for the company"? If the by-effect of him accepting the money is that he's not allowed to speak out about the sexual harassment, then how is it not hush money?

Bro, he took his severance pay, it was his, he earned it. And still went on twitter several months later. He can say what he wants.. hush money only would acquit in court.

If they offered him "hush money" and he didn't take the bribe, why was he so "hush" then!? Lol

People usually, take the money and get on with their lives. This dude is saying he didn't take "hush money", still stayed quiet, and went on twitter to toast his career. Sony ain't the Italian mob, lol.

Edit: it's hard to believe dude, especially when anyone, with no proof, can stir the pot on the internet these days.. where are the receipts!?

 

[Self_Destructive]

Not that I'm doubting the accuser, I would just prefer that vindication would come in a court room instead of Twitter. It sounds like limitations would still stand.

Also, I don't feel warm and fuzzy about Naughty Dog anymore. They were one of the most highly regarded development studious in the country. Now with this and the changes at every level there's this black cloud.

No developers stay on top forever man. Rare, Squaresoft and neither will Naughty Dog.

Nintendo is exempt though... Nintendo always stays on top.

 

[WaterAstro]

Not that I'm doubting the accuser, I would just prefer that vindication would come in a court room instead of Twitter. It sounds like limitations would still stand.

Also, I don't feel warm and fuzzy about Naughty Dog anymore. They were one of the most highly regarded development studious in the country. Now with this and the changes at every level there's this black cloud.

These days, it feels like the accuser still wins, even if they are wrong. They just did so much damage over social media, that no one even bothers listening to the accused being declared innocent.

 

[kyser73]

They wouldn't need to sign off for redundancy pay. It would be part of his contract. Calling it hush money is over simplifying what is very likely to be the standard severance package that comes with the stipulation not to talk shit about the company.

I can’t imagine even a legally entitled payment of that size wouldn’t require sign off by a senior finance officer.

BTW I’m not suggesting it’s hush money, only that this isn’t something that could simply be waved at someone with no accompanying paper trail to authorise it.

Example: I was made redundant in July & my redundancy letter was signed by HR & Operations, and my payment was approved by the CFO.

If he was fired from ND then there are papers stating why and how he got fired. He was paid in severance, it's law in California, and had been given a statement/ letter on why he was let go (a termination of employment letter most likely that he had to sign to get his severance pay like any corporate job). Besides, how else you gonna live in LA for 17 months without a job, 😂?

Why doesn't he show these papers at least?

According to his timeline he was made redundant, as opposed to being fired.

 

[WaterAstro]

I was going to start a job, but the project got cancelled a few weeks before I started.

I was paid 2 weeks for doing nothing just as an apology. Not sure what it would be called, but things like this isn't a negative thing. They weren't paying me to be hush about their cancellation.

 

[mrk8885]

I'd be just fine on a jury as at least at that point, we would have a name of the defendant and the prosecution and evidence to explain what happened. Much more than what we have right now here but want to absolutely get to the bottom of. I don't believe people have reason to lie about sexual assault but I don't feel good about knowing this potential person could do more damage to others.

Yea, but you seem confused about the innocent until proven guilty thing. You’ve already decided the allegation is true, knowing absolutely nothing beyond some tweets and a corporate denial.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I don't think that's how it works when it comes to damaging accusations.

The accuser has the onus to be proven right. Atm, we'll consider him innocent, but as time goes on and nothing comes out of him, he will be deemed guilty by the community.

Guilty of what? Where is this thread going?

 

[Astral Dog]

Not really, the HR rep who covered it up did.

Yeeeah. Only one.

 

[TheExecutive]

I don’t take this as a denial of the harassment at all. They are saying they don’t have any evidence a claim was made. It’s beside the point anyway. If it isn’t reported or wasn’t filed it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and doesn’t make it better.

My take on it is that he went to HR and it got lost in the paperwork someplace and now their faulty process is going to kick them in the pants.

Plot thickens, but i still believe David until this is confirmed false.

Meh I chose to believe neither and allow the evidence to point in one direction or the other.

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

I can’t imagine even a legally entitled payment of that size wouldn’t require sign off by a senior finance officer.

BTW I’m not suggesting it’s hush money, only that this isn’t something that could simply be waved at someone with no accompanying paper trail to authorise it.

Example: I was made redundant in July & my redundancy letter was signed by HR & Operations, and my payment was approved by the CFO.



According to his timeline he was made redundant, as opposed to being fired.

Yea, but redundancy pay and severance pay are basically the same thing. In the end both means you are no longer needed and the same rules apply with getting paid.

And hell yea somebody signed off, he got a check.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Not really, the HR rep who covered it up did.

Yeeeah. Only one.

Yeah, if this is true, it is not something that a HR rep would do without various people giving approvals for it. It's just not how these things work.

Look over your first post and then choose how you want to feel about my observation. .

You know what, you're right, I could see how people may misconstrue my intention based on that post.

Sorry about that.

 

[Astral Dog]

I was going to start a job, but the project got cancelled a few weeks before I started.

I was paid 2 weeks for doing nothing just as an apology. Not sure what it would be called, but things like this isn't a negative thing. They weren't paying me to be hush about their cancellation.

Maybe im not reading right are you comparing to a sexual abuse accusation?

 

[bosh]

Shocked this thread doesn't even seem about the situation just people who already made a decision arguing people that don't agree with them are wrong and stupid.

For the time being they can be both right , no one is this thread knows exactly what happened. Jumping to conclusions and calling people out for not agreeing with your interpretation of very little info from both parties solves nothing.

 

[Meifu]

Shocked this thread doesn't even seem about the situation just people who already made a decision arguing people that don't agree with them are wrong and stupid.

For the time being they can be both right , no one is this thread knows exactly what happened. Jumping to conclusions and calling people out for not agreeing with your interpretation of very little info from both parties solves nothing.

I know right?

My first thoughts were, hm lets see what develops, both claim their side, so some evidence needs to come in to play for this to move forward.

He said, she said is never a good starting point to take sides, especially with something like this. Also very unfortunate for the company that this is in the public - stuff like this should be handled through proper channels internally.

 

[Astral Dog]

Meh I chose to believe neither and allow the evidence to point in one direction or the other.

Its safer and a bit more humane to the acusser imo. Many people don't have the courage to talk these things because others/the comoany are hostile, much less males.

 

[TheQuickBrownFox]

Not that I'm doubting the accuser, I would just prefer that vindication would come in a court room instead of Twitter. It sounds like limitations would still stand.

Now I don’t know the US legal system from a bar of soap. I can’t imagine it would be cheap.

Bringing a legal case against a multinational of the likes of Sony would be playing in the back of their mind both on a financial and personal cost.

They would have an army of lawyers. Ready to drown you in litigation paperwork.

 

[Dark_castle]

I was going to start a job, but the project got cancelled a few weeks before I started.

I was paid 2 weeks for doing nothing just as an apology. Not sure what it would be called, but things like this isn't a negative thing. They weren't paying me to be hush about their cancellation.

Yes, project being cancelled is the same thing as sexually harassed.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

This is what I assumed the process looked like as well. But where things can get murky is if the HR person David was talking to made no note of the harassment, called someone else on the DL, and got David fired, with no paper trail relating to the harassment. This isn't very easy, but it's the only explanation I can think of that reconciles both perspectives' accounts. In this case going deeper into who fired David and why might be worth investigating further on ND's part.

Seems like an incredibly risky and stupid thing to because of the exposure to a lawsuit resulting in a PR shitstorm. But then again, the VW scandal thing happened too so who knows.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Yeah, if this is true, it is not something that a HR rep would do without various people giving approvals for it. It's just not how these things work.

You'd be shocked to know how this can easily happen, especially in large companies.

The PR probably took advantage of the redundancy rounds and NDA from accepting severance to hush it up.

Or Ballard was already scheduled for redundancy anyway.

In any case sometimes these things can happen, and covered up.

 

[kyser73]

Maybe im not reading right are you comparing to a sexual abuse accusation?

Yes, project being cancelled is the same thing as sexually harassed.

Learn to read posts in the context of the discussion around them.

The discussion was about post-employment payouts, and the poster was offering this as an example of a pay-out situation where they didn’t have to sign an NDA.

 

[prag16]

Okay, well, somebody is lying through their teeth. Who do you trust?

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Okay, well, somebody is lying through their teeth. Who do you trust?

None? Wait for this to play out, see more proof and info on the matter. Then only can one make a more substantial opinion.

 

[Gaardus]

Okay, well, somebody is lying through their teeth. Who do you trust?

Here's the thing: they claim they couldn't find record of the allegation itself. If they were trying to cover up the abuse back then, not making record of the complaint at all would make sense. Of course, it would also make sense for there to be no record if there really wasn't a complaint made. That second sentence (which is the part that matters) is plausible regardless of the accuracy of Ballard's claims.