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[Durante]

Have you looked at the Steam stats? Large parts of the 11% are still Windows users, they just won't be able to get W10 for free. A bunch will still get it while OSX and Linux show miniscule gains. Those gains are slightly higher when looking at the whole market but in the gaming space not a lot is changing.

Everyone knows that I'm a PC gaming enthusiast, and I couldn't care less for mobile, but that's just not true when looking at hard data.

And that's just the US. Mobile is huge globally, and DirectX is completely irrelevant in that market.

GlNext is the only 3D API that even has a chance to be useful in all relevant gaming markets.

 

[derExperte]

Everyone knows that I'm a PC gaming enthusiast, and I couldn't care less for mobile, but that's just not true when looking at hard data.


And that's just the US. Mobile is huge globally, and DirectX is completely irrelevant in that market.

GlNext is the only 3D API that even has a chance to be useful in all relevant gaming markets.

You're right and I edited in 'PC' before 'gaming market'. But we've seen little cross-over from mobile so far so I'm not sure if a completely universal API would be that huge of a benefit and there's always the chance that it doesn't do things as efficient as possible. We'll see soon enough I guess.

 

[Wishmaster92]

What would Directx 12 do for a realtime path-traced engine like Brigade?

 

[bj00rn_]

This thread suddenly turned from an interesting DX12 vs Mantle performance thread to a boring red herring.., mobile market... zZzzZZzzzzzz....

So is Windows PC gaming dead again, now..? Last I heard it was on a upswing despite tablets and mobile, or perhaps I was just dreaming. I guess I didn't get the memo.

Edit: Wait, why is pie chart broken down like that.. you have console, PC and mobile, so the hell kind of platform is social and mmo then?

Edit 2: Wait, I walked straight into the trap.. Fuck me..

 

[RexNovis]

DX12 (or any other low-level API) won't do too much for you if you are already GPU limited.

Despite what people want to believe, if you are limited on the GPU (and not CPU), there isn't any large overhead on PCs in the first place which could be mitigated to greatly increase performance. Almost all benchmarks of multi-platform titles confirm this.

Ah that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tommy DJ]

Edit: Wait, why is pie chart broken down like that.. you have console, PC and mobile, so the hell kind of platform is social and mmo then?

The pie chart is broken down to the types of games being distributed not the platform.

Its not an elaborate troll if you take a second and stop seeing red. Digital PC + Console are "traditional" games being sold on digital platforms like Xbox Live, PSN, Steam, Origin, GoG, etc. Mobile games are self explanatory. Social presumably encompasses games sold on social media platforms like Zynga's offerings on Facebook. F2P and P2P MMO is self explanatory.

Durante's point is that, despite comments in this thread suggesting that DirectX is the only worthwhile graphics API for gaming, a very significant market doesn't really use it exclusively or at all.

 

[pestul]

This thread suddenly turned from an interesting DX12 vs Mantle performance thread to a boring red herring.., mobile market... zZzzZZzzzzzz....

So is Windows PC gaming dead again, now..? Last I heard it was on a upswing despite tablets and mobile, or perhaps I was just dreaming. I guess I didn't get the memo.

Edit: Wait, why is pie chart broken down like that.. you have console, PC and mobile, so the hell kind of platform is social and mmo then?

Edit 2: Wait, I walked straight into the trap.. Fuck me..

Windows 10 being a free upgrade for 7/8 users means that Windows gaming isn't going anywhere fast. Many will disagree, but I actually see it regaining lost market share over OSX/Linux because of this decision.

 

[dr_rus]

What would Directx 12 do for a realtime path-traced engine like Brigade?

I'm guessing nothing.

 

[Kayant]

The xbox one has dx12 hardware that uses the full features. it will obviously benefit in raw performance and power efficiency. In addition, the ability to communicate simultaneously from CPU to GPU vice versa with all 7 CPU cores instead of 1 core at a time.


I cant see MS investing 3 billion in xbox hardware with only minimal performance increase. Phil Spencer also said think launch 360 Perfect Dark Zero to HALO 4 jump

i.e. Perfect Dark Zero = 1152×640 (no AA) – 30 fps to Halo 4 = 1280×720 (post-AA) – 30 fps [ plus all those effects and detailed textures]

As the CRY engine, Unreal 4 and Snowdrop will be full Directx 12 game engines running on Windows 10 (as per xbox), any game developed with these engines will be benefit without extra work and resources. I am sure we will see more when the NDAs have expired hopefully by E3 this year.

Hmmm is it me or does this read like mistermediax level hopefulness.

 

[FordGTGuy]

DX12 (or any other low-level API) won't do too much for you if you are already GPU limited.

Despite what people want to believe, if you are limited on the GPU (and not CPU), there isn't any large overhead on PCs in the first place which could be mitigated to greatly increase performance. Almost all benchmarks of multi-platform titles confirm this.

Your original claim was about gaming in general, not PC gaming. That was wrong.

Give me a break, as I clarified I was referring directly to pc gaming.

Also to those that say I'm wrong about DX12... why don't ypu actually show evidence for why I'm wrong?

We've heard multiple times from Phil that it will bring new capabilities to the Xbox One, in other words it will bring the DX12 feature set. We also know for a fact that the Xbox One CPU to GPU communication is still limited...

I love the practice of calling anyone Mister X Media for bringing up facts that we know about DX12 and Xbox One.

This thread suddenly turned from an interesting DX12 vs Mantle performance thread to a boring red herring.., mobile market... zZzzZZzzzzzz....

So is Windows PC gaming dead again, now..? Last I heard it was on a upswing despite tablets and mobile, or perhaps I was just dreaming. I guess I didn't get the memo.

Edit: Wait, why is pie chart broken down like that.. you have console, PC and mobile, so the hell kind of platform is social and mmo then?

Edit 2: Wait, I walked straight into the trap.. Fuck me..

Don't count on Tablets and phones being completely separate from PC and the benefits of DX12. Any device that allows game streaming from a PC running Wimdows 10 will also gain these benefits in performance. Mobile devices runnimg Wimdows 10 will also.

 

[Seanspeed]

Hmmm is it me or does this read like mistermediax level hopefulness.

Not quite, but what does?

But yea, he's definitely getting overexcited for what will probably be a mostly intangible difference(for consumers).

 

[Seanspeed]

Give me a break, as I clarified I was referring directly to pc gaming.

Also to those that say I'm wrong about DX12... why don't ypu actually show evidence for why I'm wrong?

We've heard multiple times from Phil that it will bring new capabilities to the Xbox One, in other words it will bring the DX12 feature set. We also know for a fact that the Xbox One CPU to GPU communication is still limited...

I love the practice of calling anyone Mister X Media for bringing up facts that we know about DX12 and Xbox One.

The *main* aspect of DX12 is something consoles already have. There just isn't a whole lot else that is going to make this noticeable difference some of you are hoping.

You also say 'facts', but much of what you're saying is not fact, but hearsay and PR parroting. Phil himself said that this wont make a big difference. And you know very well if this was a big deal, they wouldn't be playing it down like that.

You can get your hopes up if you want, but you're not going to convince anyone else to.

 

[Heigic]

The xbox one has dx12 hardware that uses the full features. it will obviously benefit in raw performance and power efficiency. In addition, the ability to communicate simultaneously from CPU to GPU vice versa with all 7 CPU cores instead of 1 core at a time.


I cant see MS investing 3 billion in xbox hardware with only minimal performance increase. Phil Spencer also said think launch 360 Perfect Dark Zero to HALO 4 jump

i.e. Perfect Dark Zero = 1152×640 (no AA) – 30 fps to Halo 4 = 1280×720 (post-AA) – 30 fps [ plus all those effects and detailed textures]

As the CRY engine, Unreal 4 and Snowdrop will be full Directx 12 game engines running on Windows 10 (as per xbox), any game developed with these engines will be benefit without extra work and resources. I am sure we will see more when the NDAs have expired hopefully by E3 this year.

Well I think some people are expecting a 900p to 1080p jump and the Xbox One can finally compete with the PS4 in performance.. and they'll be disappointed.

I'm not sure what sort of graphics leap to expect this gen. These are just x86 machines surely there is not much 'learning the hardware' to do. Also when the 360/PS3 launched multithreaded games didn't really exist. Multithreading would have given a huge performance gain which wont happen this gen.

 

[tuxfool]

The *main* aspect of DX12 is something consoles already have. There just isn't a whole lot else that is going to make this noticeable difference some of you are hoping.

You also say 'facts', but much of what you're saying is not fact, but hearsay and PR parroting. Phil himself said that this wont make a big difference. And you know very well if this was a big deal, they wouldn't be playing it down like that.

You can get your hopes up if you want, but you're not going to convince anyone else to.

As evidenced by other threads, the dude still thinks the GCN1.1 gpu in the XB1 has hidden hardware features that will be activated by Dx12.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

The xbox one has dx12 hardware that uses the full features. it will obviously benefit in raw performance and power efficiency. In addition, the ability to communicate simultaneously from CPU to GPU vice versa with all 7 CPU cores instead of 1 core at a time.


I cant see MS investing 3 billion in xbox hardware with only minimal performance increase. Phil Spencer also said think launch 360 Perfect Dark Zero to HALO 4 jump

i.e. Perfect Dark Zero = 1152×640 (no AA) – 30 fps to Halo 4 = 1280×720 (post-AA) – 30 fps [ plus all those effects and detailed textures]

As the CRY engine, Unreal 4 and Snowdrop will be full Directx 12 game engines running on Windows 10 (as per xbox), any game developed with these engines will be benefit without extra work and resources. I am sure we will see more when the NDAs have expired hopefully by E3 this year.

Geez, people still are spewing the 3 Billion number bullshit as being R&D?

The 3 Billion number was an entire multi year contract, not just R&D. R&D, Licensing, Manufacturing etc etc etc all fall under that 3 Billion number.

 

[Parsnip]

Threads like these are always amusing to read when people who actually know about tech try to correct stubborn people who think they know about tech.

 

[Interceptor]

A quick question from someone who didn´t follow the whole mantle and DX12 development to closely..

On my current setup (R9 270x, X4 965 BE, 8GB) i already see a vast difference in the Star Swarm stress test if i chose mantle over D3D: 40fps on average against 18fps on average.

Do i need a seperate driver package to use mantle in "regular" games or do i just need to install the Catalyst package as usual?

 

[Dictator93]

A quick question from someone who didn´t follow the whole mantle and DX12 development to closely..

On my current setup (R9 270x, X4 965 BE, 8GB) i already see a vast difference in the Star Swarm stress test if i chose mantle over D3D: 40fps on average against 18fps on average.

Do i need a seperate driver package to use mantle in "regular" games or do i just need to install the Catalyst package as usual?

You need the latest drivers as well as a game which supports the mantle path, there are not many:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantle_%28API%29#Usage

 

[Interceptor]

You need the latest drivers as well as a game which supports the mantle path, there are not many:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantle_%28API%29#Usage

Thx! A shame there is not more support for this. Any word about Witcher 3 supporting Mantle? (Guess i could just use W10 with DX12 when it finally arrives..)

 

[bwat47]

I hope dx12 gets adopted quickly, it seems like dx11 is strangling the performance of recent pc games, pretty silly seeing so many games requiring top end i7 cpu's for console ports, when the cpus in the consoles are totally anemic in comparison.

 

[-SD-]

http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/01/21/prepping-gdc/

Prepping for GDC

The team is hard at work on a series of new technology to show off at GDC as well as a big new game we’ve been working on for the past 2 years.

Microsoft and AMD are scheduled to demonstrate our tech at their booths.

I have discussed online how important DirectX 12 and Mantle are going to be. But talk is cheap. Being able to demonstrate a new game that can display thousands of light sources simultaneously (as opposed to say, 8 like you currently get on your console). Or light sources that can illuminate particle effects. Or having thousands of individual moving objects on screen simultaneously (as opposed to a dozen).

 

[Kezen]

http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/01/21/prepping-gdc/

This is going to be crazy.

 

[JaseC]

Thx! A shame there is not more support for this. Any word about Witcher 3 supporting Mantle? (Guess i could just use W10 with DX12 when it finally arrives..)

It would seem Mantle's day has come and gone: half of the 8 games that support it use Frostbite and the only upcoming one is that's not being built using an engine that already supports it is Star Citizen. I get the feeling there's practically zero interest in supporting a vendor-specific graphics API and the only reason it's being used at all is because AMD offered financial compensation for its implementation.

 

[Gamesadict]

The xbox one has dx12 hardware that uses the full features. it will obviously benefit in raw performance and power efficiency. In addition, the ability to communicate simultaneously from CPU to GPU vice versa with all 7 CPU cores instead of 1 core at a time.


I cant see MS investing 3 billion in xbox hardware with only minimal performance increase. Phil Spencer also said think launch 360 Perfect Dark Zero to HALO 4 jump

i.e. Perfect Dark Zero = 1152×640 (no AA) – 30 fps to Halo 4 = 1280×720 (post-AA) – 30 fps [ plus all those effects and detailed textures]

As the CRY engine, Unreal 4 and Snowdrop will be full Directx 12 game engines running on Windows 10 (as per xbox), any game developed with these engines will be benefit without extra work and resources. I am sure we will see more when the NDAs have expired hopefully by E3 this year.

I can't believe people still refer to those 3 billion as R&D. I'm pretty sure it was the cost of the full multi year contract with AMD for the APU. I think someone also said several DX12 features are already on the XB1's DX11.X API.

Edit: way too late, I'm on my phone. Sorry.

 

[copelandmaster]

What would Directx 12 do for a realtime path-traced engine like Brigade?

Through Brigade, OTOY is now helping leading game developers explore the potential of cloud computing for the delivery of next-generation games. Brigade is a powerful graphics API that can easily replace Microsoft DirectX® or OpenGL® graphics within popular game engines such as Epic Games’ Unreal Engine or Unity, serving as a backend for superior graphics without disrupting the game logic.

Source

 

[Putty]

Ah, Ford GT....The wishful thinking is VERY strong in this one.

 

[Durante]

Any word about Witcher 3 supporting Mantle?

CDPR hasn't expressed any interest in using Mantle. I really think JaseC has it right regarding that APIs future prospects.

Talking about CDPR, their lead engine programmer had this to say about DX12 and XB1:

“I think there is a lot of confusion around what and why DX12 will improve. Most games out there can’t go 1080p because the additional load on the shading units would be too much. For all these games DX12 is not going to change anything.”

 

[FordGTGuy]

The *main* aspect of DX12 is something consoles already have. There just isn't a whole lot else that is going to make this noticeable difference some of you are hoping.

You also say 'facts', but much of what you're saying is not fact, but hearsay and PR parroting. Phil himself said that this wont make a big difference. And you know very well if this was a big deal, they wouldn't be playing it down like that.

You can get your hopes up if you want, but you're not going to convince anyone else to.

That's completely bullshit, sorry. That isn't even what Phil Spencer said...

The main aspect to DX12 is CPU communication and increasing the amount of draw calls the same hardware is capable of performing at one time.

Being able to develop closer to the hardware is nice and everything but it's a change that is purely more helpful to developers that are now developing with DX12.

Allowing CPU communication like this allows for insane increases in CPU performance with little work for the developers.

Just look at the star swarm demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilVq4kRedcw&hd=1

Yes you will see a similar change to CPU performance on Xbox One as it has the same limitations as the hardware used above.

CDPR hasn't expressed any interest in using Mantle. I really think JaseC has it right regarding that APIs future prospects.

Talking about CDPR, their lead engine programmer had this to say about DX12 and XB1:

That quote means absolutely nothing about what DX12 is actually bringing to the Xbox One. It's not a power increase but it's a significant increase in CPU effeciency.

Ah, Ford GT....The wishful thinking is VERY strong in this one.

It's not wishful thinking when you have a actual dev using DX12 saying the exact same thing.

 

[Durante]

That quote means absolutely nothing about what DX12 is actually bringing to the Xbox One.

No, it doesn't, it's about what it won't do.

It's not a power increase but it's a significant increase in CPU effeciency.

Yes. But the significance of that efficiency increase is far higher on PC than on a consoles, since the latter already have lower-level access. That's what Seanspeed is trying to tell you.

 

[Dictator93]

That quote means absolutely nothing about what DX12 is actually bringing to the Xbox One. It's not a power increase but it's a significant increase in CPU effeciency.

It points out the fact that GPU limited games will see little to no benefit, which can of course speak to certain games on xb1.

 

[FordGTGuy]

No, it doesn't, it's about what it won't do.

Thanks for finally catching up, we already know that is something it won't do.

Yes. But the significance of that efficiency increase is far higher on PC than on a consoles, since the latter already have lower-level access. That's what Seanspeed is trying to tell you.

You might want to reread Sean Speeds statement.

He is saying that there won't be any change at all.

It points out the fact that GPU limited games will see little to no benefit, which can of course speak to certain games on xb1.

When did anyone say it would?

We are talking about CPU here, not GPU.

 

[Dictator93]

You might want to reread Sean Speeds statement.

He is saying that there won't be any change at all.

We are talking about CPU here, not GPU.

Well doesn't the x1 already have 2 APIs to code to? The dx11 path and then something lower? I am pretty sure a number of devs have commented on this before...

So....

 

[Durante]

Thanks for finally catching up, we already know that is something it won't do.

You really should step down the aggression a notch or two. Being uninformed and being an ass about it is a disgusting combination.

You might want to reread Sean Speeds statement.

He is saying that there won't be any change at all.

No, he's not.

 

[SURGEdude]

Windows 10 being a free upgrade for 7/8 users means that Windows gaming isn't going anywhere fast. Many will disagree, but I actually see it regaining lost market share over OSX/Linux because of this decision.

I don't see that happening. People don't generally buy a Mac or run Linux as a main gaming platform. Sure they might buy a few games, but Windows is so dominant I don't think many PC gamers gave up Windows so far. It is more general use people who can get all their needs met on Mac or Linux. Exactly why my laptop is a Mac and my desktop is a gaming PC.

 

[Gaogaogao]

I hope everyone gets windows 10 so we can start getting dx 12 games soon!

 

[septicore]

Bring on DX12, long live my 2600k.

 

[SURGEdude]

I hope everyone gets windows 10 so we can start getting dx 12 games soon!

Yeah the free upgrade is going to have a huge impact on how quickly the devs will view DX12 as a must.

 

[M3d10n]

Everyone knows that I'm a PC gaming enthusiast, and I couldn't care less for mobile, but that's just not true when looking at hard data.


And that's just the US. Mobile is huge globally, and DirectX is completely irrelevant in that market.

GlNext is the only 3D API that even has a chance to be useful in all relevant gaming markets.

Can we stop this? From a revenue perspective, high end graphics are irrelevant in mobile. The mobile games that use 3D graphics at all are often coded in Unity, which doesn't give a fuck about API evangelism and uses whatever is available/works best in each platform.

Also, Apple gave OpenGL the middle finger when they launched Metal, their low CPU-overhead API, which is supported on UE4 and Unity5, leaving Android the only "relevant" platform where OpenGL is the only option.

 

[SURGEdude]

Can we stop this? From a revenue perspective, high end graphics are irrelevant in mobile. The mobile games that use 3D graphics at all are often coded in Unity, which doesn't give a fuck about API evangelism and uses whatever is available/works best in each platform.

Also, Apple gave OpenGL the middle finger when they launched Metal, their low CPU-overhead API, which is supported on UE4 and Unity5, leaving Android the only "relevant" platform where OpenGL is the only option.

I don't think he meant that the other APIs are pointless, just that OGL has the advantage of wide cross-platform support.

 

[TheHellsLord]

I don't think he meant that the other APIs are pointless, just that OGL has the advantage of wide cross-platform support.

It's not even the same API on all platforms. The mobile OSes use OpenGL ES which is a cut down version for mobile use. So far we have not seen an anouncement of glNext support on mobile at all (unless I missed it).

It's possible we'll see it supported on Android but given that Apple recently introduced Metal I would not count on glNext support arriving on iOS any time soon (and lots of Devs still target iOS first when it comes to mobile games).

When it comes to Desktop OS gaming - Linux is obviously the wildcard here - it can run everywhere Windows can run and that includes Macs. Macs in the big picture of gaming won't mean much outside of more casual stuff. Most people who have one, have a MacBook and those just don't use the most beefy of GPUs which limits the kind of games you can play on them. Of course there are devices like the Mac Pro but due to price alone they cater mostly to graphics/video editing professionals and not gamers.

In the end a lot will depend on when glNext will be finished (and ready for use - depends a lot on drivers). It also depends on what Valve will do with SteamOS. Many believe that they will have to come out with it sooner rather than later if they don't want it to drift off into obscurity (but also likely means launching with regular OpenGL when Microsoft is starting to push Windows 10 PCs).

When it comes to new graphics features - we don't know for sure but it seems everything that is being introduced to DX12 will be available in DX11.3 as well. Wether or not those features will be available on Xbox One is currently unknown - what we do know is that no other GCN1.1 graphics card (from which the Xbox One's GPU is derived) has those capabilities (I don't even know if GCN1.2 cards have them). The only 2 GPUs I know that seem to support everything and are being sold already are the GTX970/GTX980.

 

[Putty]

You really should step down the aggression a notch or two. Being uninformed and being an ass about it is a disgusting combination.

No, he's not.

I'd give up trying to talk common sense with Ford.

With XB1 and DX12, I'd say....keep expectations rather low. It's just nuts what some people are "expecting". This Brad Wardell fella is throwing ALOT of numbers out there!

 

[Kezen]

I would not expect anything ground-breaking for DX12 on the Xbone.
It already has low-level access and I doubt the GPU has DX12 hardware features but then again if all of them are in DX11.3.....

 

[Votron]

well I'll be damned

 

[Durante]

Can we stop this? From a revenue perspective, high end graphics are irrelevant in mobile. The mobile games that use 3D graphics at all are often coded in Unity, which doesn't give a fuck about API evangelism and uses whatever is available/works best in each platform.

Oh, I realize that Unity is very important. That's why I posted this chart earlier, straight from the horse's mouth:

As you can see, they consider Metal, which you brought up, as important as OpenGL on mobile.

I don't really get what exactly you want to stop tough. The point is that OpenGL is the only cross-platform graphics API. DirectX only runs on one OS, Mantle only runs on one type of device, and libgnm and Metal only run on one type of device on one OS. None of this looks like it will change any time soon.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Oh, I realize that Unity is very important. That's why I posted this chart earlier, straight from the horse's mouth:

As you can see, they consider Metal, which you brought up, as important as OpenGL on mobile.

I've seen this chart like 4 times and don't even remotely understand what it is saying. What is "relevance" of an ecosystem and how is it measured?

Please explain it to me like I'm 6, Durante.

 

[markot]

Tech demos... Remember those games console tech demos. They never exaggerated performance.

 

[Durante]

I've seen this chart like 4 times and don't even remotely understand what it is saying. What is "relevance" of an ecosystem and how is it measured?

Please explain it to me like I'm 6, Durante.

It's quite simple: the chart shows nothing more than the opinion of Unity as to the relevance of each of those APIs. It's not a measured value at all. However, due to the importance of Unity that M3d10n alluded to, I don't think that makes it useless.

Basically, Unity think that OpenGL is very important on the Web, as important as Metal on mobile, somewhat less important than D3D on the desktop, and irrelevant on consoles. D3D they consider irrelevant on the web, not particularly important on mobile and pretty important on desktops and consoles. Libgnm and Metal are only relevant on consoles and mobile respectively, but pretty important in their niches, and Mantle only has niche importance and only on the desktop.

Finally, they hope that glnext (a development that they are heavily involved in, it must be said) will turn into an API that is highly useful across all these platforms.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

Oh, I realize that Unity is very important. That's why I posted this chart earlier, straight from the horse's mouth:

As you can see, they consider Metal, which you brought up, as important as OpenGL on mobile.

I don't really get what exactly you want to stop tough. The point is that OpenGL is the only cross-platform graphics API. DirectX only runs on one OS, Mantle only runs on one type of device, and libgnm and Metal only run on one type of device on one OS. None of this looks like it will change any time soon.

I've seen this slide a few times now, but I can't seem to find anything about it if I google glNext Unity. Where did that chart come from?
A reverse Google search only leads me back to neogaf.

I'm not doubting the source, but I'm curious to see the rest of the article/presentation.

 

[Durante]

I've seen this slide a few times now, but I can't seem to find anything about it if I google glNext Unity. Where did that chart come from?
A reverse Google search only leads me back to neogaf.

I'm not doubting the source, but I'm curious to see the rest of the article/presentation.

It's from a huge slide set that was presented at Siggraph 2014.

I cut out that image from the slides since I found it interesting, so it's not surprising you'd be led back to GAF.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

It's from a huge slide set that was presented at Siggraph 2014.

I cut out that image from the slides since I found it interesting, so it's not surprising you'd be led back to GAF.

Ah, thanks so much!