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[Zaptruder]

So the big deal with DX12 is that it'll dramatically reduce draw call latency and thus increase number of draw calls possible.

And what does draw calls mean for the lay person? Roughly translates to discrete objects/effects on the screen (although complex objects can require many draw calls).

So if you can do many draw calls, then you could generate a huge individually animated army on the screen composed of low detail polygons.

If you couldn't, then you might only be able to generate that army by copy and pasting the same soldier/unit across multiple locations and or using tricks like representing units as a single block (i.e. a unit of 49 soldiers might be represented as a single texture with 49 dudes on it).

Or at least that's what I roughly understand. My specifics may be wrong - looking for corrections by those more knowledgeable.

Question from me then is... are GLnext (or APIs covering a sufficient marketshare) supporting this sort of functionality, so that we can see across the board benefits in gaming?

Any existing games it could enhance? Is LOD something that's heavily affected by limited drawcalls? (I'd imagine yes; you can have more objects out further into the distance - e.g. more grass and tree sprites).

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think there should rightly be a discussion about the implications of this and the future of the console gaming industry. Long has the reality been that consoles perform better because of less overhead and writing "to da metal". Well, it's looking like PCs no longer need more hosepower to get console-equivalent performance.

PC gaming -- which was already affordable -- becomes maybe 30%-50% less expensive if these numbers translate to real games. While offering eternal backwards compatibility with games and peripherals, fee online play, less expensive games and emulation. In addition to doubling as a computer that you can actually get shit done with.

DX12 might mean you can build a desktop rig with $350 worth of parts that gives you 1080p/60 in everything you might want to play. Hell, 2015/2016 Intel Integrated GPUs might be able to produce the same results, which means most laptops $500+ would be able to outperform consoles handily. I would think that everyone except Nintendo and 1st party studios would sit up and take note. That's a lot of built-in market.

For however long a gaming laptop lasts, which in my experience isn't very long. High on laptop is not worth it in my opinion.

 

[Durante]

Laptops are generally already GPU-limited in games, not CPU-limited. Low-overhead APIs won't do much at all for those cases.

 

[Livelife]

summary

Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.

600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.

CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .

Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.

Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.

Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.

Naysayers are eating crow!

"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"

limitless light sources in games.

1000+ characters AI characters on screen.

toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.

future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc

Not so much games for cross platform games.


Fable Legends Dx12 game


AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.

Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.


Stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.


Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.


"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

 

[DagnastyEp]

I didn't see this posted anywhere:

The Inner Circle posted a podcast yesterday with Brad Wardell. Pretty good top level discussion of DX12. Recent Anandtech results are discussed, among other things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47cnFWK0dRM

Edit: Beat by 1 minute.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

:lol

 

[leeh]

I'd give up trying to talk common sense with Ford.

With XB1 and DX12, I'd say....keep expectations rather low. It's just nuts what some people are "expecting". This Brad Wardell fella is throwing ALOT of numbers out there!

If there's one thing we know is that the X1 still uses one core DX, so they'll be a good efficiency boost in that sense. In addition, the Metro guys said that the CPU overhead on drawcalls is still large compared to the PS4. Whether that's been fixed in SDK updates, or whether a lot of devs spend the time using the lower level API we don't know.

What's more important is whether the DX12 hardware changes are supported in the X1 and what they bring to the table.

I honestly don't see it being a game changer. There's only so much you can do with a lower clocked 8 core CPU with a entry GPU.

 

[Livelife]

summary

Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.

600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.

CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .

Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.

Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.

Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.

Naysayers are eating crow!

"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"

limitless light sources in games.

1000+ characters AI characters on screen.

toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.

future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc

Not so much games for cross platform games.


Fable Legends Dx12 game


AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.

Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.


Stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.


Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.


"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

 

[TronLight]

limitless light sources in games.

But how many will cast shadows?

 

[statham]

summary
Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.
600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.
CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .
Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.
Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.
Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.
Naysayers are eating crow!
"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"
limitless light sources in games.
1000+ characters AI characters on screen.
toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.
future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc
Not so much games for cross platform games.
Fable Legends Dx12 game
AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.
Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.
stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.
Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.
"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

Nice recap and people should listen to the interview, I like the part where he says current games will be hard to look at once DX12 games start to hit

 

[Candescence]

There's a surprising number of people revealing new tech or new iterations of their tech at GDC this year. Wonder if Euclideon will show as well. Not that likely, but they went to Gamescom in 2011.

It'll be interesting to see the performance between DX12, Mantle and glNext.

 

[deriks]

Yeah, yeah. PC will be great and stuff, but how will impact Xbox One?

 

[Raide]

Yeah, yeah. PC will be great and stuff, but how will impact Xbox One?

If the guts of the Xbox One are basically there to support DX12, then there will be improvements. Probably no crazy secret sauce style gains but an improvement is still an improvement.

I wonder if the new Crackdown is a DX12 project?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

summary
Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.
600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.
CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .
Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.
Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.
Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.
Naysayers are eating crow!
"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"
limitless light sources in games.
1000+ characters AI characters on screen.
toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.
future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc
Not so much games for cross platform games.
Fable Legends Dx12 game
AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.
Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.
Stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.
Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.
"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

*puts sandwich down*

 

[JaggedSac]

Well doesn't the x1 already have 2 APIs to code to? The dx11 path and then something lower? I am pretty sure a number of devs have commented on this before...

So....

Didn't Corrine Yu complain about overhead on the Bone?

 

[Kayant]

Didn't Corrine Yu complain about overhead on the Bone?

She said windows 8 but that was also a long time ago and before what Dictator93 says talking about was added.

Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised)

and

They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available - although we didn't ship with it on Redux due to time constraints.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game

Really don't believe many of Brad Wardell claims especially about games looking like movies on consoles.

 

[Gaogaogao]

Yeah, yeah. PC will be great and stuff, but how will impact Xbox One?

not as much

 

[Dictator93]

The Nitrous guys seem to have a forward shaded engine that is somehow radically aided by DX12. Curious about that...

 

[Ushay]

If the guts of the Xbox One are basically there to support DX12, then there will be improvements. Probably no crazy secret sauce style gains but an improvement is still an improvement.

I wonder if the new Crackdown is a DX12 project?

I'd bet it is.

 

[Raide]

I'd bet it is.

It does seem like a project that would show off DX12 over DX11.

I am certainly interested to see what impact this will have on PC but more-so what impact it will have on Xbox One once DX12+Win 10 appears.

 

[Nzyme32]

summary

Some things I found odd from what he emphasises

Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.

He is specifically referencing the AnandTech article, but he is wrong in almost all cases, where AnandTech shows that Mantle is better on AMD cards with the exception of CPU scaling on dual cores and batch timings.

Of course DX12 is still being developed and sure to improve. Outside of AnandTech's article though, it may well be that DX12 is better than mantle on AMD cards for games in other engines and circumstances. However:

"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"

He continues here on to touting 300% gains etc. AnandTech and many others back when Star Swarm was used to demo Mantle, have been clear that the Star Swarm test is a very purposeful best case scenario in a very specific circumstance

That said, any time we’re looking at an early preview it’s important to keep our expectations in check, and that is especially the case with DirectX 12. Star Swarm is a best case scenario and designed to be a best case scenario; it isn’t so much a measure of real world performance as it is technological potential.

Again, in actual game performance and engine's taking advantage of the API, there can be a substantial difference in what you see and what is possible between say DX11 and DX12, but using the "300% gains" based only on the Star Swarm demo, designed to give that best case scenario, is probably not the right one to use.

Benchmarks of such DX12 games will be a far better show than just Star Swarm

 

[Kayant]

Some things I found odd from what he emphasises



He is specifically referencing the AnandTech article, but he is wrong in almost all cases, where AnandTech shows that Mantle is better on AMD cards with the exception of CPU scaling on dual cores and batch timings.

Of course DX12 is still being developed and sure to improve. Outside of AnandTech's article though, it may well be that DX12 is better than mantle on AMD cards for games in other engines and circumstances. However:



He continues here on to touting 300% gains etc. AnandTech and many others back when Star Swarm was used to demo Mantle, have been clear that the Star Swarm test is a very purposeful best case scenario in a very specific circumstance



Again, in actual game performance and engine's taking advantage of the API, there can be a substantial difference in what you see and what is possible between say DX11 and DX12, but using the "300% gains" based only on the Star Swarm demo, designed to give that best case scenario, is probably not the right one to use.

Benchmarks of such DX12 games will be a far better show than just Star Swarm

Yep pretty much the same thing happened with mantle but when game benchmarks were released the major improvements where only really found on the low end/crossfire setups whereas in the star swarm benchmarks i5/i7 saw almost as good improvement as the lower end processors.

 

[Skinpop]

I'd like to see this compared to modern opengl. direct3d has been notorious for its horrible overhead. Wouldn't surprise me if better multi threading gives dx12 the edge. March and valves unveiling of glNext will be exciting.

The Nitrous guys seem to have a forward shaded engine that is somehow radically aided by DX12. Curious about that...

forward is coming back strong, well it's still kind of deferred, but without the drawbacks of "normal" deferred lighting.
http://www.slideshare.net/takahiroharada/forward-34779335

 

[pottuvoi]

The Nitrous guys seem to have a forward shaded engine that is somehow radically aided by DX12. Curious about that...

Last pass is forward rendered, but at that point they have already shaded/lighted everything. (shading happens in texturespace, before rendering to framebuffer.)
This is similar to REYES, which dices polygons until they are subpixel sized 'micropolygons' which are shaded in vertex/polygon level, when all shading is done rendered.

This shoud allow some nice things, including completely detach final rendering resolution/method from shading.
Thus it allows easy use of MSAA, which should work very fast with this tech as final pass may be as fast as rendering objects with couple of FP textures.

http://www.oxidegames.com/2015/01/21/prepping-gdc/

Cannot wait to see and learn more about their tech, it does shading quite differently to any other game. (in texture/object space.)

forward is coming back strong, well it's still kind of deferred, but without the drawbacks of "normal" deferred lighting.
http://www.slideshare.net/takahiroharada/forward-34779335

Indeed, it has it's own drawbacks.

There has been advances on forward/deferred after that paper. (introducing depth to tiles.)
http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~olaolss/main_frame.php?contents=publication&id=practical_clustered_2013
http://www.humus.name/Articles/PracticalClusteredShading.pdf

 

[ScepticMatt]

The main aspect to DX12 is CPU communication and increasing the amount of draw calls the same hardware is capable of performing at one time.

And the next most important thing are more consistent frame times due to more explicit control over e.g. shader compilation.

 

[OminoMichelin]

"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

Incredible. I know better than to get hyped but... yeah I'm fucking hyped.

 

[Livelife]

*puts sandwich down*

DX12 + Windows10 + PC/XBOX ONE+ a NEW fully developed DX12 parallel game engine. #greatforgamers

 

[OminoMichelin]

DX12 + Windows10 + PC/XBOX ONE+ a NEW fully developed DX12 parallel game engine.

Yeah that's the only thing that kind of bugs me. We are going to be waiting at least a couple of years to see all the benefits.

 

[Livelife]

But how many will cast shadows?

see at GDC 3rd March Stadocks Nitrous engine will demonstrate 1000 real-time light sources. #[compared to 8 light sources on current generation dx11 and below]

 

[Skinpop]

So the big deal with DX12 is that it'll dramatically reduce draw call latency and thus increase number of draw calls possible.

And what does draw calls mean for the lay person? Roughly translates to discrete objects/effects on the screen (although complex objects can require many draw calls).

So if you can do many draw calls, then you could generate a huge individually animated army on the screen composed of low detail polygons.

If you couldn't, then you might only be able to generate that army by copy and pasting the same soldier/unit across multiple locations and or using tricks like representing units as a single block (i.e. a unit of 49 soldiers might be represented as a single texture with 49 dudes on it).

Or at least that's what I roughly understand. My specifics may be wrong - looking for corrections by those more knowledgeable.

A draw call means that you tell the gpu to execute the shader program on whatever stuff you want it to operate on. Imagine I decide to give each triangle in a mesh its own draw call - this is going to be horribly inefficient because the gpu consumes the draw calls faster than the cpu can issue them. It's a bit more complicated but with regards to direct3d, the api has historically been quite horrible at issuing draw calls. Modern opengl on the other hand has really good draw call performance.

There are ways around this bottleneck though, namely batching. So while it's simpler from a programming point of view to just let each mesh have it's own drawcall, you'd batch draw them by packing lots of models together in a single draw call. So if a game already does very efficient batching, the low overhead of D3D12 shouldn't have much of an impact. The problem is that it's not always possible to batch efficiently and it also has the drawback of making the engine code more complicated.

Personally, I'm more interested in advances on making the prep work for draw calls more efficient. Changing shader programs and framebuffers is still so expensive that even with small draw call overhead you still have to batch things.

Question from me then is... are GLnext (or APIs covering a sufficient marketshare) supporting this sort of functionality, so that we can see across the board benefits in gaming?

Any existing games it could enhance? Is LOD something that's heavily affected by limited drawcalls? (I'd imagine yes; you can have more objects out further into the distance - e.g. more grass and tree sprites).

You can implement an engine using current modern opengl that has almost no draw call overhead. OpenGL's problems are of another character than d3d. Basically opengl is worse for developers, the api is full of legacy crap, there are too many ways to do the same thing, debugging tools are bad, driver quality has been inconsistent, there is no intermediate representation for shader programs and maybe the most important one: MS is doing their best to sabotage opengl by not including modern drivers for it on windows. To get anything more recent 1.2 gl you have to update your gfx drivers. For gamers this doesn't sound too bad(since you are already doing it) but lots of casual gamers never update their harware driver and as such will never see newer versions of opengl.

glNext aims to fix all of these issues, I'm optimistic about all of them except the issue of actually getting drivers out to people. My hope is that maybe steam will somehow integrate an option for automatically upgrading drivers. If you could ensure that everyone who uses steam and has a capable gfx card runs on up to date drivers then suddenly openGL would start to make a lot of sense for a lot of developers.

As for enhancing games, like so many has said before me in this thread it all depends on whether the game is cpu or gpu bound. If the gpu utilization already sits around 100% it won't make a difference.

 

[Raide]

Yeah that's the only thing that kind of bugs me. We are going to be waiting at least a couple of years to see all the benefits.

Its not like MS are only just releasing DX12. This has probably been in the works for a while now, so I expect DX12 engines to already be in full swing. Something like UE4 is bound to be supporting it.

Like most development, it will be a few years till the most is got out of this change but I am hoping the change is sooner rather than later.

 

[Livelife]

Its not like MS are only just releasing DX12. This has probably been in the works for a while now, so I expect DX12 engines to already be in full swing. Something like UE4 is bound to be supporting it.

Like most development, it will be a few years till the most is got out of this change but I am hoping the change is sooner rather than later.

Xbox one exclusives will take advantage early during the transition phase from DX11 game engines thus you will see some increase in performance inc light sources, fps, ai and draw distance etc.: starting with Fable Legends, Tomb Raider, Quantum Break, Scalebound, Crackdown and then by Gears 4 2016 you will be blowned away. So less than two years.

 

[wachie]

summary

Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.

600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.

CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .

Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.

Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.

Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.

Naysayers are eating crow!

"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"

limitless light sources in games.

1000+ characters AI characters on screen.

toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.

future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc

Not so much games for cross platform games.


Fable Legends Dx12 game


AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.

Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.


Stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.


Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.


"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

This sounds like the opposite of what Durante and others are saying here and reads more like a dream.

 

[twobear]

summary

Anandtech AMD cards 7fps to 43fps running Nitrous engine DX12 engine.

600% performance increase on AMD cards running full DX12 game engine.

CPU cores n their performance more important in the future games .

Directx 12 on Xbox Nov.

Directx 12 runs better than Mantle on AMD cards.

Dx9 uses max 6000 draw calls vs 600,000 on dx12.

Naysayers are eating crow!

"Marketing chose 40% increase slogan as real gains were too unbelievable for the masses to digest"

limitless light sources in games.

1000+ characters AI characters on screen.

toy story/ lord of the rings graphics no deffered rendering.

future Xbox cpu bound exclusives DX12 games to have these gains however dx12 games initially 30% gains as they transition from Dx11 to full new dx12 game engines using esram etc

Not so much games for cross platform games.


Fable Legends Dx12 game


AMD/MS has mega DX12 news at GDC.

Stardock developed Starswarm dx12 demo in 2 months. Starswarm would have similar performance gains on Xbox one i.e 600%. They have something major at GDC in the Microsoft booth.


Stardock are developing DX12 game engine "Nitrous". Star Control game will make sense console. They will license it to 3rd parties in future after they release 2 games on Nitrous engine.


Phil Spencer managing expectations, as in November with DX12 on Xbox..... the games released then wont look much different then until the new DX 12 game engines.


"The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell" on YouTube
The Inner Circle special - DX12 Tech Talk with Brad Wardell: http://youtu.be/47cnFWK0dRM

does anyone really believe this? rofl a bit

 

[Raide]

Xbox one exclusives will take advantage early during the transition phase from DX11 game engines thus you will see some increase in performance inc light sources, fps, ai and draw distance etc.: starting with Fable Legends, Tomb Raider, Quantum Break, Scalebound, Crackdown and then by Gears 4 2016 you will be blowned away. So less than two years.

I wonder how many of these titles will end up improving progressively due to the DX12 changes? Seems like the updated SDK helped a few before, so I wonder what impact this will have.

I just hope MS throw out all the help devs need to make the most of it, especially for their big titles.

 

[Dictator93]

does anyone really believe this? rofl a bit

The guy being interviewed says something equivalent at one point to, "I haven't worked with the PS4 tools myself, but I hear from the grape vine that they are really crummy." He also says the PS4 only has the equivalent of DX11 style multithreading.

A lot of what he says smacks of pure platform warrior / hype machine kinda stuff. A ton of FUD right there.

 

[sinnergy]

The guy being interviewed says something equivalent at one point to, "I haven't worked with the PS4 tools myself, but I hear from the grape vine that they are really crummy." He also says the PS4 only has the equivalent of DX11 style multithreading.

A lot of what he says smacks of pure platform warrior / hype machine kinda stuff. A ton of FUD right there.

Nah he doesn't, he is pretty forward on it. These improvements are pretty big, you better believe it, but as a programmer you have to learn it and companies have to change their pipelines, which takes time and money.. so how it will turn out in the future...

With engines like UE and unity it might be different as they will support DX 12 by default, at least most features.

 

[chaosblade]

I don't really feel like it matters of Mantle slightly outperforms DX12 or not. If it had any role at all in getting DX12 to see these improvements I'd say it did its job.

 

[Durante]

DX12 + Windows10 + PC/XBOX ONE+ a NEW fully developed DX12 parallel game engine. #greatforgamers

This (including the incredibly cheesy hashtag) reads so much like PR that I had a look at your post history... well.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Xbox one exclusives will take advantage early during the transition phase from DX11 game engines thus you will see some increase in performance inc light sources, fps, ai and draw distance etc.: starting with Fable Legends, Tomb Raider, Quantum Break, Scalebound, Crackdown and then by Gears 4 2016 you will be blowned away. So less than two years.

I'm ready to eat crow, but I don't expect Fable, tomb raider and quantum break to be mindblowing in terms of graphical features, like having tons of objects, light sources and advanced physics. We'll see.

does anyone really believe this? rofl a bit

I mean,the benches are there. At best you can argue that it's all fake and all of this is a stupidly huge marketing stunt. I don't think I need to point out how unrealistic this is
also

This (including the incredibly cheesy hashtag) reads so much like PR that I had a look at your post history... well.

I actually agree.

 

[sinnergy]

I'm ready to eat crow, but I don't expect Fable, tomb raider and quantum break to be mindblowing in terms of graphical features, like having tons of objects, light sources and advanced physics. We'll see.

Not with 3rd party games, but second and first party could really show the difference. A multi platform game has to run on all machines, so differences will be marginal.

 

[Dictator93]

Not with 3rd party games, but second and first party could really show the difference. A multi platform game has to run on all machines, so differences will be marginal.

I hate to say this, but DX12 will have the least effect on xb1 in comparison to PC. It has been said over and over again by tons of posters and people who actually make game engines.

If it had such a massive effect on xb1, that would mean the xb1 is one of the worst consoles launched in the history of mankind. SO much so that more than a majority of its power is locked behind an API limitation. How realistic is that scenario?

 

[JaggedSac]

She said windows 8 but that was also a long time ago and before what Dictator93 says talking about was added.

Bone is basically running Win8. Also, what would she be working on that was non-Bone related? When did she tweet that btw? I just have a vague recollection.

 

[LCGeek]

does anyone really believe this? rofl a bit

not the percentages but they have showed off certain aspects of draw calls no need to believe watch the dx11 vs dx12 demo of it on same hardware this should shut down peoples disbelief.

 

[Dictator93]

not the percentages but they have showed off certain aspects of draw calls no need to believe watch the dx11 vs dx12 demo of it on same hardware this should shut down peoples disbelief.

It applies to very specific scenarios (all of which, are awesome how much better they work in dx12)... but the guy in the interview is hyping pretty hardcore by sidewise referencing the "ending of the uncanny valley," real time toy story, his metaphor witht he starwars prequel films.

Dx12 is gonna be great, but it is, jesus god, no miracle worker.

 

[...Scatter...]

This (including the incredibly cheesy hashtag) reads so much like PR that I had a look at your post history... well.

I'm down for the DX12 gains and am excited, but yeah, this did read completely PR to me too D.

 

[wachie]

This (including the incredibly cheesy hashtag) reads so much like PR that I had a look at your post history... well.

Paging bish

 

[Nzyme32]

I mean,the benches are there. At best you can argue that it's all fake and all of this is a stupidly huge marketing stunt. I don't think I need to point out how unrealistic this is
also

I actually agree.

But he is wrong about the benchmarks. He even goes on to say the AnandTech demonstrate shows that DX12 performs better than Mantle in the Star Swarm demo for AMD hardware - when it is actually Mantle that is better in almost all of their benchmarks.

And again, even AnandTech have the same arguments for Star Swarm as they had when they did it for Mantle - it is a best case scenario

That said, any time we’re looking at an early preview it’s important to keep our expectations in check, and that is especially the case with DirectX 12. Star Swarm is a best case scenario and designed to be a best case scenario; it isn’t so much a measure of real world performance as it is technological potential.

Wait for actual benchmarks and features from fully fledged DX12 games, rather than demos that test certain scenarios. All this is good for is indicating ability of an API to handle large amounts of draw calls.

 

[Candescence]

Dx12 is gonna be great, but it is, jesus god, no miracle worker.

Yeah, its not gonna be some revolutionary game-changer.

Spoiler

That would be possibly be stuff like Brigade and Euclideon, I think.

 

[Kayant]

Bone is basically running Win8. Also, what would she be working on that was non-Bone related? When did she tweet that btw? I just have a vague recollection.

fair point but Dictator93 mentioned is ways already in place to fix that. iirc it came perfectly much when the announcement of her moving to ND was made.

She also said this -