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[Stoney Mason]

Right, because this thread and NPD threads certainly aren't fanboy threads of a different variety.

They may indeed be "fanboy threads" but there is a difference in invading an official thread and taking it completely off topic. The idea that ALL discussion involving any game belongs in the official thread is quite dumb. Especially so when its sales related.

 

[JoJo13]

They may indeed be "fanboy threads" but there is a difference in invading an official thread and taking it completely off topic. The idea that ALL discussion involving any game belongs in the official thread is quite dumb. Especially so when its sales related.

Fair enough. And on that point, I totally agree. It'd be pretty damn rude to barge into an official thread talking about this subject.

 

[Averon]

Let's just be honest and call this thread for what it really is. It's not like the ridicule and backlash is totally undeserved. The KZ fans did go overboard with the gifs so some dirt should be thrown in their faces. But please stop trying to dress up this thread as if it'll contain some new insight in KZ sales, or lack thereof. It has already been thoroughly discussed.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

Has there ever been a hugely popular FPS on a PS console?

CoD 4?

 

[favouriteflavour]

2.) and it’s a game of COVER in FIRST PERSON. Notice how in Gears and Uncharted the camera is in 3rd person, this allows you to see you character while in cover giving you both perspective of you against your surroundings while also letting you independently control the camera (gives you something to do…i.e. active reloads).

I liked how R6:Vegas switched to 3rd person behind cover.

 

[VULKIN]

Also, yes the controls have been "patched" but the controls are still inferior to that of the big 3 (Halo, CoD and Resistance). I believe that this complaint (which I think IS fair) is easily the biggest problem that the average consumer has and is the most detrimental toward the current and future sales of the game.

Could you imagine if Halo or Resistance were not as precise as they are. The controls do not feel like they give weight once you switch to a pistol or another gun and are still the same. Instantly you fell as though the game has some sort of simulated lag, not simulated weight(you already have lag by nature) and thus the idea of weight is lost.

It is a damn shame but there are many alternatives out there with proper controls (also a HUGE problem)

Oh, and its funny there are those of you trying to dismiss this as being a real issue when we should be talking about the issue and ways in which it can be corrected (maybe even keeping the "weight of the guns"). I wish this was fixed but alas it is not. For those that like the controls as they stand I say enjoy this game because their most likely will not be another that controls just like it!

 

[VULKIN]

I liked how R6:Vegas switched to 3rd person behind cover.

In hindsight I think that is exactly why you went into 3rd person when in cover. I also agree with you, I enjoyed this as well.

 

[donny2112]

You just love trying to push this ugly game in every thread don't you.

You know, sometimes you can be reading a thread about game A, see a comment, and it remind you of game B. I know it's probably never happened to you, but there are people out there that it happens to. Crazy world, huh?

 

[Gadfly]

Man, I just did not see anyone in any of the Killzone threads saying this game was the PS3's Halo. I heard that derisively said much more from Xbox fans than from Killzone hypers. I heard them say, best graphics ever etc, but never that it was going to compete with Halo. Maybe someone did it, but I read a lot of those threads, and I never heard Killzone fanboys saying this was going to sell like Halo.

Maybe it was not mentioned in Killzone threads and maybe they did not compare it with Halo (at least not recently) but "wait for KZ2" -was- a recurring theme brought up by PS3 fanboys. Starting in early 2007.

As recently as 09 Feb and March NPD threads, people were still arguing that we should not judge KZ2's selling power with the first or even second month results. Surprisingly I don't see that many of them (except those that are here to remind us that Sony did a bad job marketing it) in this thread.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the game or whether the expectations were realistic or not. But saying the expectations were not there.. I really don't know where to find the right word not to be offensive.. ok, that's bullshit.

 

[donny2112]

Has there ever been a hugely popular FPS on a PS console?

It looks like Medal of Honor: Frontline is the top-selling FPS on a Sony console. I think it's still about half a million ahead of CoD4.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I liked how R6:Vegas switched to 3rd person behind cover.

Perfect Dark actually did it first, and it's a combination of what R6 and Killzone does.

It goes into 3rd person when covering, then first when when you pop back out.

 

[DeadGzuz]

Also, yes the controls have been "patched" but the controls are still inferior to that of the big 3 (Halo, CoD and Resistance). I believe that this complaint (which I think IS fair) is easily the biggest problem that the average consumer has and is the most detrimental toward the current and future sales of the game.

I think your theory is BS. You guys get wrapped up in stuff, but the average Joe is not part of this "controversy". I lent KZ2 to my boss, who just finshed Far Cry 2 and then Resistance 2. He is about half way through KZ2 and I asked about his impressions, he knows nothing about the game, no bias or hype. He loves the immersion, he said it's "like being in war". I asked him what he thought of the controls, he thought they were "realistic" which is exactly what GG was after. Of course if he was a fanboy who talks about games more than enjoying them he would go on and on with crazy theories and complaints about non-existent issues.

 

[Dirtbag]

I fully expect a same console sequel to be released now, those US numbers are pretty weak.
Same engine (+ one or two tricks), Coop campaign, overhauled MP, streamlined controls = profit.

My guess is 2-2.5 years till release.
Not exactly rushed out, but something that can be profitable.

 

[NovemberMike]

A lot of it requires too much of an investment. It doesn't get the community gaming demographic because of this. People want to be able to buy that game their friends were playing last month and be able to play competitively. When you have to play for a week to get a sniper rifle, it doesn't really work.

 

[mujun]

I think your theory is BS. You guys get wrapped up in stuff, but the average Joe is not part of this "controversy". I lent KZ2 to my boss, who just finshed Far Cry 2 and then Resistance 2. He is about half way through KZ2 and I asked about his impressions, he knows nothing about the game, no bias or hype. He loves the immersion, he said it's "like being in war". I asked him what he thought of the controls, he thought they were "realistic" which is exactly what GG was after. Of course if he was a fanboy who talks about games more than enjoying them he would go on and on with crazy theories and complaints about non-existent issues.

he didnt say average joe, he said average consumer.

surely that means the average person who was aware it was coming out and had some interest in playing it.

 

[lowlylowlycook]

I fully expect a same console sequel to be released now, those US numbers are pretty weak.
Same engine (+ one or two tricks), Coop campaign, overhauled MP, streamlined controls = profit.

My guess is 2-2.5 years till release.
Not exactly rushed out, but something that can be profitable.

Haha. Sony and profit. Haha.

Rule 1 of the console wars: Never reinforce defeat.

 

[Dirtbag]

Haha. Sony and profit. Haha.

Rule 1 of the console wars: Never reinforce defeat.

they already spent all that money on the development...
they'd be stupid not to release a sequel running on the same engine.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

SP or MP?

I heard they patched the MULTIPLAYER controls.

Because if anyone says SP, then I call bullshit.

I still have the sensitivity to the max, and it STILL barely moves. So they haven't patched shit in the SP.

You may want to try turning down the sensitivity before you give up on the game. Sounds backwards, I know, but it meshes with the weighted motion, whereas higher sensitivity seems to conflict with it.

 

[speedpop]

I think the low selling status of this game compared to other more successful titles is due to one thing: brand. Pumping out a quick sequel will only net the same amount of people who bought the first and second titles.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

You may want to try turning down the sensitivity before you give up on the game. Sounds backwards, I know, but it meshes with the weighted motion, whereas higher sensitivity seems to conflict with it.

Are you being serious?

 

[VULKIN]

I think your theory is BS. You guys get wrapped up in stuff, but the average Joe is not part of this "controversy". I lent KZ2 to my boss, who just finshed Far Cry 2 and then Resistance 2. He is about half way through KZ2 and I asked about his impressions, he knows nothing about the game, no bias or hype. He loves the immersion, he said it's "like being in war". I asked him what he thought of the controls, he thought they were "realistic" which is exactly what GG was after. Of course if he was a fanboy who talks about games more than enjoying them he would go on and on with crazy theories and complaints about non-existent issues.

You say my theory is "BS" and give an example of ONE person whom differs. Not only that but my main argument is that the controls are not up to par and in my opinion, is the problem that the AVERAGE consumer will notice. One of the main reasons Mario, Halo, Zelda, Pokémon and other games of their caliber are so popular is because they are easy to pick up. Having a set of extremely strong core gameplay mechanics is what will make or break a game and for a FPS control is paramount. The controls just feel right and do not require the average user to fight with them. Therein lies the problem, the average consumer will not take the time to learn or adjust to the controls of Killzone especially when they can just put CoD or any other shooter in that controls just fine for them.

I did mention other issues but the controls are easily the main issue at hand. Also I agree with the immersion aspect of Killzone, it’s probably the best I have seen in a pure shooter and is one of the reasons I wish that the controls were more responsive.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Are you being serious?

Totally. I told you it would sound backwards. But hey, it worked for me. I spent days in the beta trying to get it to control more like, say, COD4, but I gave up. Turned down the sensitivity (vertical at about half of horizontal) and it clicked. Well, as much as KZ2 can click. Really, though, I had more luck lining up shots by strafing than by traditional aiming.

 

[VULKIN]

You may want to try turning down the sensitivity before you give up on the game. Sounds backwards, I know, but it meshes with the weighted motion, whereas higher sensitivity seems to conflict with it.

I play much better with the sensitivity up. But I still have issues with the controlls.

 

[Dirtbag]

I think the low selling status of this game compared to other more successful titles is due to one thing: brand. Pumping out a quick sequel will only net the same amount of people who bought the first and second titles.

Well assuming the sequel runs on the same engine, and uses much of the same assets with improvements, this could keep development costs much lower allowing for more money to pump into a reasonable marketing campaign.

I also think the game was hurt by being too hardcore and confusing to the average gamer.
The MP is not immediately accessible no matter how many of you GAFers want to deny it, and as such never caught fire in the face of the COD franchise. The game needs to be easier to use from a systems standpoint, and could benefit from some more forgiving controls, decent tutorials, and less confusing huds.

 

[Zhuk]

Anyone who posted this in the official KZ2 thread would have been eaten alive by the militant group of fanboys there as it would be a perceived criticism of the title to discuss the poor sales of the game.

I think this is a discussion that GAF needed to have, especially after a game which received such incredibly hype failed to make a splash in the water.

 

[Dash Kappei]

You guys sound exactly like the 1up podcast.

KZ2 is a great game regardless if it sold 6 copies or 6 million copies, it obviously sold enough for them to do another one and that is all that matters, unless you work for GG or Sony, don't fucking worry about how many units a game sells (unless it's not enough for a sequel to be made).

I swear sometimes people are so fucking thick, every fucking time some disappointing sales numbers are posted for the PS3/Nintendo/X360 game-of-choice crowd and someone post something like Sinpes here.

I do care.
Yep, I enjoy sales-age and many others involved with gaming in general do.
Call it a passion/interest/hobby if you like, something like that, it shouldn't be too hard to understand, you know?

Spoiler

And yet it seems it is (that hard). Every-fucking-time.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I really hope there is no sequel. Guerrilla has proven that it can develop a good FPS, but now it's time to ditch that old corpse and put their obvious talents to work on something else.

How about a dirty, mean mech game?

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Anyone who posted this in the official KZ2 thread would have been eaten alive by the militant group of fanboys there as it would be a perceived criticism of the title to discuss the poor sales of the game.

I think this is a discussion that GAF needed to have, especially after a game which received such incredibly hype failed to make a splash in the water.

That thread is quite possibly the worst thread on GAF.

No seriously.

 

[bigswords]

let me pile on the hate in a sales thread!

I was a previously defender of the KZ2 multiplayer but after playing the pc version of TF2. Seriously kz2 is a retarded shitty version of it. Just think of it as u can only play as a soldier in TF2 then only after hitting certain xp you can play as a medic and etc...

And having a fixed number of sentries bots? ugh.. shitty! In TF2 I could have the whole team as engineers with sentries all over the place but it can still be broken by a demo or spy...

And to have the option to not allow any class in a server? Wow that shows how fucking balanced the game is.

Shitty game and I can't believe I defended that piece of turd in a plastic bluray shit case.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I think your theory is BS. You guys get wrapped up in stuff, but the average Joe is not part of this "controversy". I lent KZ2 to my boss, who just finshed Far Cry 2 and then Resistance 2. He is about half way through KZ2 and I asked about his impressions, he knows nothing about the game, no bias or hype. He loves the immersion, he said it's "like being in war". I asked him what he thought of the controls, he thought they were "realistic" which is exactly what GG was after. Of course if he was a fanboy who talks about games more than enjoying them he would go on and on with crazy theories and complaints about non-existent issues.

And like every other game that fails to meet sales expectations quality is quickly dismissed as a possible factor.

This is something i find to be really annoying. No game fails because of how good/bad it is, nope it's purely because of marketing.

Despite KZ2 getting more advertising than 95% of other games (only games like Halo, gears etc exceed it) the entire success or lack thereof is blamed on the marketing.

There are many things within the game that turn people off, most have been mentioned already.

1. new players - It is extremely unfriendly to new players. There are things which need to be unlocked which gamers expect to have right from the start. Not having these and being put at a disadvantage is a real turn off.

2. Finding games - It is so damn hard to find a game let alone a good game. I'm not going to say anything else because i think even the big fans of the game agree with this.

3. Lag - It might not be the same all over the world but i get tons of lag even when playing with other locals.

4. Controls - I don't mind the controls and i was able to complete the game on the hardest difficulty so i can't really complain to much. I just much prefer the controls in gears/halo/COD. Most of my friends with the game don't like the controls and we have went straight back to halo/gears for our MP needs.

5. No co-op - I don't care how much it is downplayed in the official thread this is a major selling point. It's the reason why i haven't been compelled to pick up the SP since completing it and have no intentions to. People want to enjoy the experience with their friends.

The co-op campaign is one of the main things people like about halo, it is so well done and to me personally it is the main selling point of the game. I have replayed halo 1,2 and 3 many times.

6. Balance - The assault class is the worst offender. I'm not going to bother going in depth but this is a real turn off. There is a reason why people want to turn off certain classes.

Also i have to lol at your example describing the controls as realistic. It is nothing like being realistic and even if it was how does that benefit the game? People are playing for fun and if the controls aren't providing this they won't keep going just because it feels 'real'.

 

[Omar Ismail]

I also think it's interesting to see if there's an actual NEGATIVE effect by the rabid community.

With the hype going on for so long, and the community becoming so insular and rabid, then any criticism of their sacred cow gets pounced upon with reckless abandon. We saw many many many examples of that... X-play review included.

Contrast that with something like the Official Street Fighter thread where the people in there are far friendlier and inviting. People share their criticisms with the games, and they're discussed intelligently, newbies are helped along the skills curve etc. It's a community newcomers WANT to be a part of, whereas the KZ2 community became too hardcore for its own good.

I see it as similar to the demo thing... a good demo can help, just like a good community can. But a bad demo can really hinder, just like an overly rabid community.

I would argue that the extremely fanatical community is what hurt the Gamecube in some ways.

 

[MirageDwarf]

After people raving about how much better MP is than other games, I thought it would have legs because of combination of MP gameplay + no competition at release and until MW2 release + exclusivity. It still sold very poorly so far.

 

[CrushDance]

Typical. lol @ lowlycook

 

[Gully State]

And like every other game that fails to meet sales expectations quality is quickly dismissed as a possible factor.

This is something i find to be really annoying. No game fails because of how good/bad it is, nope it's purely because of marketing.

Despite KZ2 getting more advertising than 95% of other games (only games like Halo, gears etc exceed it) the entire success or lack thereof is blamed on the marketing.

There are many things within the game that turn people off, most have been mentioned already.

1. new players - It is extremely unfriendly to new players. There are things which need to be unlocked which gamers expect to have right from the start. Not having these and being put at a disadvantage is a real turn off.

2. Finding games - It is so damn hard to find a game let alone a good game. I'm not going to say anything else because i think even the big fans of the game agree with this.

3. Lag - It might not be the same all over the world but i get tons of lag even when playing with other locals.

4. Controls - I don't mind the controls and i was able to complete the game on the hardest difficulty so i can't really complain to much. I just much prefer the controls in gears/halo/COD. Most of my friends with the game don't like the controls and we have went straight back to halo/gears for our MP needs.

5. No co-op - I don't care how much it is downplayed in the official thread this is a major selling point. It's the reason why i haven't been compelled to pick up the SP since completing it and have no intentions to. People want to enjoy the experience with their friends.

The co-op campaign is one of the main things people like about halo, it is so well done and to me personally it is the main selling point of the game. I have replayed halo 1,2 and 3 many times.

6. Balance - The assault class is the worst offender. I'm not going to bother going in depth but this is a real turn off. There is a reason why people want to turn off certain classes.

Also i have to lol at your example describing the controls as realistic. It is nothing like being realistic and even if it was how does that benefit the game? People are playing for fun and if the controls aren't providing this they won't keep going just because it feels 'real'.

You pretty much nailed every single reason why I stopped playing killzone 2. Everything about the game screams initial frustration. The only one you missed is the poor implimentation of that tactitioner's spawn points. Being able to literally throw a spawn point onto an objective and turn a potentially tactical skirmish into a clusterfuck was the last straw for me.

My only gripe with the controls was in single player as having to hold down L2 for cover and toggle ADS with either R3 or L1 were both equally unintuitive.

 

[Aselith]

Remember, sales numbers indicate how good a game is.

u mad?

 

[Proc]

After people raving about how much better MP is than other games, I thought it would have legs because of combination of MP gameplay + no competition at release and until MW2 release + exclusivity. It still sold very poorly so far.

I don't think it was enough to pull ps3 players away from CoD4 and World at War. Its tough to compete with CoD.

 

[McBradders]

That thread is quite possibly the worst thread on GAF.

No seriously.

It's not that, it was more the horrendous splashing of GIF's in completely unrelated topics and the vehement defense force that would pop up in almost any graphics related thread. Certainly did nothing to endear me to a game I was already umming and ah-ing over in terms of my opinion.

With regards to the game and its sales, well, it simply wasn't that good. It's lower than expected sales are not a surprise, especially after the demo, I only picked it up myself because it was cheap and wanted to give it a chance.

Probably shouldn't have.

 

[duk]

This proves pretty graphics will only get you so much, but this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success.

 

[Gully State]

This proves pretty graphics will only get you so much, but this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success.

You mean 3rd time's the charm. It's hard for me to think that Sony endow GG with an even larger budget for the next Killzone.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The backlash is more of a response to the ridiculous claims PS3 fanboys were making about the game's potential to be the latest PS3 savior. The game made no impact on the "console wars" and has largely been forgotten by most gamers, which proves it certainly wasn't in the category as a Halo or Gears of War. That in no way suggests the game sucks. People are complaining about the weak controls, and I'd agree, but overall I enjoyed the little time I spent playing it

 

[jakncoke]

how many copies did Killzone sell?

 

[MWS Natural]

This proves pretty graphics will only get you so much, but this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success.

Yeah, RE2 is a great example of this...

 

[speedpop]

I don't get the criticisms towards this thread. It's a worthwhile discussion on the reasons why such an anticipated title eventually fizzled into the wind.

It's not as if I am pasting countless Kerberos pictures all over the place.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah, RE2 is a great example of this...

What? Are you saying that RE2 was only good graphics? That it was a great first attempt or that it did poorly? Are we talking about Resident Evil 2 here?

 

[Gully State]

How much longer do you guys think GG will further support Killzone 2? And what will we see?

 

[MWS Natural]

What? Are you saying that RE2 was only good graphics? That it was a great first attempt or that it did poorly? Are we talking about Resident Evil 2 here?

"..this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success"

Many said the same thing about Resistance 2 before it came out. Just because a game just falls short of greatness does not mean the next iteration in the series will be better. You can only hope and......."wait for" it.

 

[JoJo13]

"..this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success"

Many said the same thing about Resistance 2 before it came out. Just because a game just falls short of greatness does not mean the next iteration in the series will be better. You can only hope and......."wait for" it.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/killzone2

This was never an issue about quality, quit making it one.

There are much worse issues with much bigger shooters, yet they have gone on to sell far better even with two iterations.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"..this is a great first attempt, I am sure the next KZ will fix a lot of the issues and be a bigger success"

Many said the same thing about Resistance 2 before it came out. Just because a game just falls short of greatness does not mean the next iteration in the series will be better. You can only hope and......."wait for" it.

Ahh... I wasn't accustomed to seeing Resistance 2 abbreviated as "RE2". RE2 has always been reserved for Resident Evil 2 in my book.

 

[SickBoy]

I think this thread has taken a turn a little, which I think is fine because this is a better place to objectively discuss Killzone than the official thread (another strike against official threads, IMO).

But I think the numbers are alright. Probably not what was expected, but respectable.

As for the game, I recently got rid of my copy. I put a lot of time into it by my standards (don't have huge amounts of gaming time anymore), but I started to grow tired of it. IMO, multiplayer is good, but needed improvements. Frankly, I enjoyed it more when I was a lower-ranked player among other low-ranked players where we were all carrying peashooters instead of rocket launchers and sniper rifles.

I also think the map pack came out too early. I wasn't ready to pay $10 for new maps, and the fact that there was no way to exclude new map games from server searches was kinda crappy (not that there weren't enough servers running without new maps, however).

For a long while I had intended to go through the single-player again, but instead I figured I should get the value out of it while I could. When it gets cheap I may choose to get it again...

All in all, though, I loved the game, and I thought it offered more than enough to make it very much worth it for me. This surprised me a little because I probably went into it with a more critical eye since I was mildly disgusted by all the shouting down of pre-launch criticism (Edge's 7 as an example).

 

[Gully State]

Anyone else feel that Warzone isn't as dynamic as advertised? When I first played, it felt fresh, but once you figure out that all the objectives and spawns are always in the same spots, it starts getting mundane.