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Anime art style games with no sexualized characters?
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
So what? Are you going to deny that her appearance helps show what kind of character she is? It doesn't have to be necessary. They can just make the character invisible except for a sign she wears around her neck that says "I'm kind of skanky" but instead they go about establishing it different ways for different characters. There being multiple ways to show a character's personality does not make one way less valid.
It's not like breasts have to be hidden away unless it's absolutely, positively, world-savingly necessary that they come out.
I can screw all the ladies and almost yosuke, I dunno about tame.
That and teacher skank
Again, context. No other characters dress like this. It makes little sense that she would dress like this. Even in an imagined Japanese school, I hardly think something like that would go down well with most of the administration. It's played off as parody in Great Teacher Onizuka, but in other school-based stories, teachers are fired for stuff like that (even in manga). I'm not saying that it's right, only that playing with societal norms is odd if it's inconsistent. Which it is in the case of the two characters I mentioned. In effect, it's playing off caricatures as characters in a game that has characters who aren't caricatures.
I never played Ni No Kuni, but Chrono Trigger and Earthbound certainly have their fair share of tropes. Not that I actually find them damaging, they are intended to be plot points and don't really define the game
(Marle being rescued explains the Butterfly Effect, Paula being rescued defines her psychic abilities and explains them for the rest of the party - later explains the Giygas encounter).
KojiKnight
Member
I'll say it again, you can't mention sexuality in Chrono Trigger without mentioning Flea
Derp. My mind imagined a non-existing "main" into the thread title. Although I may not have seen all the clothing options, I think all of those were pretty okay.
Haha, so true.I'll say it again, you can't mention sexuality in Chrono Trigger without mentioning Flea
Still, Flea is 1000% Toriyama. He seems to really like gender inversion.
I'm not denying anything, there is a massive problem. But white knights put a smoke screen over it by focussing on the wrong problem. Bitching about short skirts, exposed skin and shit is actual sexism and misogyny.
Well if you can't understand that that's the point, there's not much point in discussing it with you.
Rise being sexualized in ads and stuff is a big part of her arc. As a typical Japanese "teen idol" or whatever, she puts on this show and shoes off her body and leaves the impression that she's that kind of person, when she's actually kind of uncomfortable with it and that's why she's in town in the first place, to take a break from all of that. And relationships being implicitly sexual is not the same as characters being sexualized. Characters don't have to be asexual to not be sexualized.
I'll give you the bath scenes, though. Especially the new one they added to Golden. That was just shameless. Where the hell did Naoto get those boobs, anyway?
Dark Octave
Banned
I love Final Fantasy IX but Realm's outfit is just all kinds of wrong.
Dude, I get that that's the point. I also get that there's no context for it, and thus it's a bit inexplicable.
Rise implied that she always had them, in the discussion where they did the check-up.
It's about ice cream trejo. Ice cream.
A Black Falcon
Member
Videogames rarely do. They can't, it'd be way too boring...
Good point, I'd forgotten that some of the Russian women soldiers did wear skirts (I doubt the pilots did...). But ones that long are quite different from the miniskirts of the game...
That's true, the human mind can sexualize almost anything... particularly clothing. The key is that the bits of flesh exposed by the clothing become sexualized. There are lots of examples of this, such as the ankle in the 19th century in Europe, the nape of the neck in premodern Japan, etc. Zettai ryouiki certainly works on that principle.
Good point on the school uniform design of the "military uniforms" in the game. This is a common thing, for Japanese games not set in schools to have the characters in outfits that look a LOT like school uniforms, and it's certainly done for fanservicey reasons.
That's much better.
Um, of course? Sure you can find some examples of places where men wore skirts/kilts, but in most of Europe since the Dark Ages that divide has been clear. And even when men did have kilts and such, the divide was clear -- generally men could wear less, while before the 20th century women were virtually always expected to wear ankle to floor length dresses.
Considering that the series is theoretically set in the 1500s realistically she wouldn't be dressed or armed like that at all, but that's a different problem.That's clearly not what a real-life soldier-of-the-gods, warrior-woman would wear if she set off to destroy an evil sword. She'd want to wear something more like what she wore in Soul Blade. (At least on top. She probably could have used some tights.)
Side note: the fact that her boobs grew so much between her first and last appearances is just another way in which she's been sexualized.
I mean, that's a classical Greek inspired costume, and the Greeks stopped believing in the Olympian gods somewhere after the fall of Rome... but I know, games like Soul Calibur don't care even the slightest bit about actual historical accuracy. As a history major I can't help but find that annoying. (But about the tights, that costume is inspired by classical Greek outfits, and in classical Greece I don't think they had anything like tights. They probably had some kind of leggings, but I don't think it was common... and while most women in classical Greece wore long garments, some doing sports and such did wear shorter ones like that. The breast armor Soul Blade Sophitia has on is purely fantasy stuff, though. But again, that's all stuff that had vanished a thousand years before the games are set.)
As for sexualization though, she started out somewhat sexualized, but they amped it up hugely through each of the next three games, that's for sure.
You are right that sexualized designs do not have to lead to a misogynistic narrative or characterization, but it usually does, because the people serializing the design usually use negative gender stereotypes for that character in the story as well. Also there is of course the issue of whether stereotyped imagery like that is misogynistic by definition; I'm not sure what I think on this one, and do think that actions or words are the most important part and not just character designs, but some things go far enough that it can play a role on its own I think.
Fair enough
Though in Hanako's case, I wouldn't respect her OR like her. To reiterate, there's absolutely no reason for the protagonists to empathize or be "nice" to Hanako. (We really should have gotten a Hanako SL though, I want to know what makes her tick)
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Making sweeping generalizations and being morally indignant increases dopamine levels I guess.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Mainline SMT games are pretty good about player characters and NPCs being reasonably dressed and avoiding the usual geek fetish anime tropes. The summons are another story, but they are more fucked-up hellish lust-beasts than pandering.
How about Advance Wars and Pokemon? Can't think of any offenders off the top of my head.
EDIT: Damn, I forgot about Lash. She's not too bad, but that trench coat won't keep you warm when you're wearing a sports bra and leggings.
How about Advance Wars and Pokemon? Can't think of any offenders off the top of my head.
EDIT: Damn, I forgot about Lash. She's not too bad, but that trench coat won't keep you warm when you're wearing a sports bra and leggings.
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Lash is actually not that bad. She's an eccentric young goth girl genius. Her fashion sense isn't really as suspect as the more serious characters. Her midriff fits her character, but a lot of the other ones don't.
By the same logic, Sami is actually okay, because she's a foot soldier and tends to move around a lot. Wearing a tank top (even thought it exposes the midriff) isn't too out there. Although that gun probably chafes like a bitch.
googleplex
Member
Why? She's wearing leggings and huge poofy pants held up by suspenders.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Why should anime-style games have completely
unsexualised main characters? Because "cartoons"
are supposed to be squeaky clean and family friendly?
Now, I know there are plenty of Japanese games with
character designs done in really bad taste (especially the
loli shit), but that is no reason to go to the other extreme,
to make every female character dressed like a nun, just to be PC.
unsexualised main characters? Because "cartoons"
are supposed to be squeaky clean and family friendly?
Now, I know there are plenty of Japanese games with
character designs done in really bad taste (especially the
loli shit), but that is no reason to go to the other extreme,
to make every female character dressed like a nun, just to be PC.
I don't find anything wrong with Rachel. Sure, it doesn't make sense for someone of her importance to be wearing a tube top underneath fatigues, but she gives off more of a buddy vibe, not really sexualized like Nell was. I agree about Sami, she always struck me as more tomboyish with that top than promiscuous. Girl Rambo, pretty cool stuff. Didn't play Days of Ruin, though. Ugh, some of those suck.
Black Door
Banned
0/10
I don't think anyone is calling for a ban on sexy characters, just discussing how questionable tropes often get pulled into anime-style games for no reason. And it's relevant, because Japan has a large gender gap issue right now; these sexual attitudes can be indicators of destructive tendencies in how women are viewed.
Oh, do explain what is the right problem then?
Anyway having girls dress in short skirts, exposed skin and other forms of over sexualizations as default in games contribute to the objectification of women in video games. They are there as "eye-candy" for the male gamers. Deny it all you want.
I don't think Rachel is that bad either really but she doesn't have a good excuse as Sami and Lash.
The DoR designs are hilarious though. Look at that sniper dude, you'd think he was an underwear model.
Don't buy Soul Calibur or play Ivy. Problem solved.
take your own advice and stay out of the thread if you don't like what we're talking about. problem solved.
You responded to this:
With "because I don't like this character." Changing everything because you don't like a character is really stupid.
Objectification of women contributes to objectification of women. It's not having the characters dress in short skirts which is the problem, the problem has more to do with why the characters are dressed in short skirts.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Well, that is fine with me. It just seemed to me that several posters here were just listing characters and evaluating them on a list of forbidden articles of clothing, cup size or personality traits. Not a very smart way to discuss this issue.
I think sexualising a character should be completely ok, as long as it fits with the character's personality and the overall theme and tone of the game. Simply suggesting that a woman - either real or fictional - shouldn't wear miniskirts or have big breasts suggests some pretty conservative values which I certainly can't subscribe to (and many feminists wouldn't either.).
then we're in agreement with each other. like I said "I'm all for sexy, just have some modicum of taste"
tbh I misread myself so I won't expect others to figure out that the ivy pic was meant as an example.
though from your response I sure got the impression you don't give a fuck
So Dead or Alive and Senran Kagura.
On the other hand Selvaria, mini-skirts, and Alicia's swimsuit don't fit the theme and tone of VC1 so there's no justifiable reason for them to be there other than to serve as eye-candy.
The Rise thing is weird. She's sexualized right there in the narrative. But I think for a character to be sexualized in this case, when talking about her design, she has to be unnecessarily sexual for no reason beyond fanservice. But I can see where you're coming from with it.
I don't remember the swimsuit thing, but... probably not.
Heaven forbid we have a conversation.
Read the exact question he is responding to, read how he responded to it, and try again.
Can you elaborate on the "large gender gap" comment? As far as I am aware, Japanese manga and anime has been far more successful at developing a female audience than American comics. The Japanese market has a much larger number of works aimed primarily at women than what you see in the US. As a whole, American fantasy art, be it in Comics, trading cards, or videogames, has major problems of its own with over-sexualization of women and appealing to a female audience.
Japanese games such as the Atelier series or Harvest Moon seem to have done a much better job at directly appealing to female fans than many Western games. So why are you claiming that there is a gender gap issue in particular with anime art-styles?
Most of the designs aren't that bad, but yeah it does have one or two which are really err... questionable.
Ding ding ding. It's the attitude behind the character design that matters. People who play Panty Shot Schoolgirls 12 may not all have fucked up attitudes towards women, but there's little denying that a game like that is perpetuating an attitude that girls and women are to be subservient lingerie models, fetish material. Whereas a character design like this:
or this:
Present clearly feminine figures with little destructive fetishization. The rule of thumb I use is, would I feel uncomfortable if someone viewed my mother/daughter/girlfriend in the way that this character is viewed by its intended audience?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Many of you guys here should look toward becoming Amish.
Neon_Icarus
Member
Yeah, to be honest, I'm fine with the existence of games like Dead or Alive (as long as they don't actually sexualise children). They are what they are and don't pretend to be anything else.
Meanwhile, Selvaria's design really sticks out in a negative way among the (mostly pretty classy) designs of the original Valkyria Chronicles. It has nothing to do with her personality or story at all and is clearly there just to sell figurines.