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[Guileless]

What am I missing here? Because I did a find for parts of this quote and it's no where in the article the OP posted.

My bad, that quote comes from this Reason interview with Bourdain published today. It is so similar to the earlier one from eater that I looked at when the thread was created last week that I just thought they were the same thing. Should've known better, he's been doing PR like crazy for his new cookbook, I heard him on The Splendid Table and read an interview with him in Food & Wine recently also.

 

[EdibleKnife]

My bad, that quote comes from this Reason interview with Bourdain published today. It is so similar to the earlier one from eater that I looked at when the thread was created last week that I just thought they were the same thing. Should've known better, he's been doing PR like crazy for his new cookbook, I heard him on The Splendid Table and read an interview with him in Food & Wine recently also.

Ah well there you go. Unlike him, I haven't spent alot of time in gun-country, I've lived there. I've seen the guns kill minorities and the gun tonters turned into victims or folk heroes. I've seen the bible thumpers say they should act Christ-like and act a whole other way when the doors close. They wish my contempt for them was as dehumanizing as or dangerous as theirs is for the people they see as pariahs or abominations. The mistake people make is thinking that the views of such people are only different rather than actively damaging to society as a whole. Homophobia isn't just different, it's harmful. Sexism isn't just different, it's dehumanizing. Racism and prejudice aren't just different, they''re destructive. Anti-environmentalism/science denial isn't just different, it's suicidal. I'd love to find common ground if the ground that those people found most valuable wasn't ground that involved bigotry, inequality and the denial of civil rights from people different from them.

 

[Shig]

He's right though.

The left should do a lot more with finding common ground with the right. Even if you might not get their support, at least you'll probably motivate the next generation.

That's been the long game for years. We're seeing the next generation we were working on 'turning' now, only to find it's full of alt-right goons and literal Nazis.

Trying to play nice with the other side isn't working out so well. It only helps give legitimacy to viewpoints that deserve none. The left needs to go on the offensive, don't just briefly rebut Republicans' untruths and policies that actively seek to harm others, BURY them. When Republicans screw up or say something stupid, hammer it relentlessly, with the same tenacity that they would do with our gaffes. If the parties went hit-for-hit and neither side pulled their punches, the Blue corner would annihilate the Red corner. Stop holding back out of respect, it's clear the opponent clearly has no such hang-ups. They want blood, show 'em theirs.

 

[KingK]

Yeah, we should definitely break bread with people who think we are subhuman for being of x descent/having x sexuality

You know, I agree with the sentiment of never giving up on people and always trying, and I do still try to politely discuss politics with republicans whenever the chance comes up, hoping they'll be different. But yeah, literally every republican voter I've ever discussed politics with can't talk politics for 30 minutes without saying some heinous, racist shit (it usually takes much less than 30 minutes). I've tried calmly explaining why that's wrong, but usually that's when the conversation reaches a dead end. I mean fuck, I've heard one of my uncles call my cousin's husband and daughters (4 and 6 years old), his own grandchildren, the N word before.

There's a scene in the Hateful Eight, when Walton Goggins first gets in the wagon with Sam Jackson and Kurt Russell. Eventually he says some racist confederate shit and Jackson pulls his gun, then Goggins is all "oh, I'm sorry! You got me talking politics..." I love that scene because it's hilarious and perfectly reminds me of every conversation I've had with conservatives.

There has literally been only one exception to that in my life, and it was my sophomore dorm mate who is now a consistent liberal. And honestly, politics doesn't have to get brought up for them to show their ass. I can't count how many times co-workers, classmates, or even random strangers in the supermarket will make a gross racist joke or "observation" or whatever and expect me to laugh or agree because I'm white. Or how many looks my girlfriend (who's black) and I have gotten while out on a date.

So yeah, I'll keep trying, but I certainly don't blame anyone, especially any POC, for just avoiding these people. And I'm not an east coast elite. I'm a poor, rural, white Midwesterner born and raised as a poor, rural, white Midwesterner. For all the talk post-election of bubbles and being willing to talk to different people, I just have to shake my head. Because it really, truly is white, rural America who are in the biggest bubble, and the most unwilling to listen to anything that doesn't reinforce their beliefs.

 

[Bolivar687]

Trying to play nice with the other side isn't working out so well. It only helps give legitimacy to viewpoints that deserve none. The left needs to go on the offensive, don't just briefly rebut Republicans' untruths and policies that actively seek to harm others, BURY them. When Republicans screw up or say something stupid, hammer it relentlessly, with the same tenacity that they would do with our gaffes. If the parties went hit-for-hit and neither side pulled their punches, the Blue corner would annihilate the Red corner. Stop holding back out of respect, it's clear the opponent clearly has no such hang-ups. They want blood, show 'em theirs.

Thats what Hillary did.

 

[capitalCORN]

Thats what Hillary did.

The Democratic effort wasn't simply a singular source. There was enough interference and meddling effort to depress voters, particularly in the hands of those who would't stop spouting "BOTH SIDES!". The right was energized and whipped to a froth like rabid dogs shown raw meat by 'the 'refreshing' candour of Trump.

 

[BocoDragon]

That's been the long game for years. We're seeing the next generation we were working on 'turning' now, only to find it's full of alt-right goons and literal Nazis.

Trying to play nice with the other side isn't working out so well. It only helps give legitimacy to viewpoints that deserve none. The left needs to go on the offensive, don't just briefly rebut Republicans' untruths and policies that actively seek to harm others, BURY them. When Republicans screw up or say something stupid, hammer it relentlessly, with the same tenacity that they would do with our gaffes. If the parties went hit-for-hit and neither side pulled their punches, the Blue corner would annihilate the Red corner. Stop holding back out of respect, it's clear the opponent clearly has no such hang-ups. They want blood, show 'em theirs.

Yup.

I have a feeling embattled liberals might have finally learned a thing or two from the Trump offensive. "FIRE EVERYTHING".

 

[KingK]

Thats what Hillary did.

She did that for social issues, but her futile attempts to win over suburban republican women meant that she intentionally separated Donald Trump from the Republican party, which basically just gave people an out of "oh, well even Hillary says regular republicans aren't that bad. I'm sure they'll keep Donald in check." She didn't attack the Republican party once, and lavished praise on plenty of Republican politicians.

Her insistence on playing nice with the Republican party meant that she didn't really attack their economic platform from any sort of moral perspective, despite the Ryan budget containing many measures that are morally objectionable and deserve to be destroyed.

So yeah, she did that with social issues but on economics she either ignored it or played nice with Republicans. Unfortunately, too many people don't care either way about issues that don't directly affect them. So I think her stance on social issues actually helped her, not hurt her. I would not change much in how she approached that. Her issue was that she just neglected to make a strong economic case or go scorched earth on the Republicans' insane economic policies in addition to, not instead of, the social justice case.

 

[Bolivar687]

She did that for social issues, but her futile attempts to win over suburban republican women meant that she intentionally separated Donald Trump from the Republican party, which basically just gave people an out of "oh, well even Hillary says regular republicans aren't that bad. I'm sure they'll keep Donald in check." She didn't attack the Republican party once, and lavished praise on plenty of Republican politicians.

Her insistence on playing nice with the Republican party meant that she didn't really attack their economic platform from any sort of moral perspective, despite the Ryan budget containing many measures that are morally objectionable and deserve to be destroyed.

So yeah, she did that with social issues but on economics she either ignored it or played nice with Republicans. Unfortunately, too many people don't care either way about issues that don't directly affect them. So I think her stance on social issues actually helped her, not hurt her. I would not change much in how she approached that. Her issue was that she just neglected to make a strong economic case or go scorched earth on the Republicans' insane economic policies in addition to, not instead of, the social justice case.

I hardly ever heard Hillary talk about social issues. Almost all of her advertising was exclusively soundbites of Donald Trump. The Democrat for my Senate race did the same against the opponent and lost as well, also despite a lead in the polls.

I keep seeing False-EquivalencyGAF saying they're tired of the left playing nice, after Democrats took things to a whole new level of cringe this election cycle.

 

[capitalCORN]

I hardly ever heard Hillary talk about social issues. Almost all of her advertising was exclusively soundbites of Donald Trump. The Democrat for my Senate race did the same against the opponent and lost as well, also despite a lead in the polls.

I keep seeing False-EquivalencyGAF saying they're tired of playing nice after this election cycle took things to a whole new level of cringe.

That's the media failling. How many Clinton rallies were aired on news networks? How many did Trump get? The fact that calling out a fascist isn't enough is downright terrifying, and a reality now.

 

[cdyhybrid]

You guys missed the best part.

That's a two-way street. Let me know when they're willing to do the same.

 

[KingK]

I hardly ever heard Hillary talk about social issues. Almost all of her advertising was exclusively soundbites of Donald Trump. The Democrat for my Senate race did the same against the opponent and lost as well, also despite a lead in the polls.

I keep seeing False-EquivalencyGAF saying they're tired of the left playing nice, after Democrats took things to a whole new level of cringe this election cycle.

Well, I would agree that she didn't spend enough time/resources talking up herself and the Democrats as opposed to tearing down Trump. But part of that is that people didn't trust a word she said about her plans anyway, which goes back to her being a terrible candidate and I don't really want to get into that too much.

But from a strategy point of view, the point I was making is that all of those negative Trump soundbites you're talking about were focused on social issues, and laser focused on Donald Trump himself, rather than the Republican party. In fact she went out of her way in many ways to put as much distance as possible between Trump and the party he represents. She didn't once launch any serious attack against Republican economic policy or the Republican party at large. This is what I mean by "playing nice."

I think her going brutal in annihilating Trump's bigotry was the right call, but it wasn't enough to stop there. I think the only people that hurt her with were never going to vote Democrat anyway. The problem is that a lot of people who we needed to vote Democrat just didn't care about that stuff one way or the other. She didn't present a compelling economic case or call out the atrocities present in the Republican economic policies, and in fact helped paint the Republican party as a principled resistance to the worst aspects of Trump. This created an environment where people felt they could just stay home, or even vote for Trump in some cases, because a Republican Congress would "keep Donald in check" on his more extreme and racist statements. But there's a lot of extreme and subtly, rather than explicitly, racist policy that the entire Republican party supports that she just didn't address or call out during the campaign.

 

[Shig]

Thats what Hillary did.

She got a few barbs in, but nah, overall she played the moderate and moved past plenty of Trump's gaffes after a couple mentions. And the 'liberal' media did the same. Like I said, refuting something in a statement or two and then moving on isn't the answer. You've got to keep the other party's dirty laundry armed and at the ready, show it off at every opportunity. Conservatives have proven how effective that permanence is, look how much emails and Benghazi stayed in the news despite them being a bunch of absolute nothing. Apply that pressure to issues that are something, and don't just give up if it doesn't take immediately.

I said it before and I'll say it again, her not seizing on Trump's admittance to not paying contractors was an enormous missed opportunity. If she would have pressed that, found some character witnesses, driven it home that if he screwed these workers, he'd screw anyone, that could have been her golden ticket with the blue collar segment she lost. She instead dropped that entirely and went in hard on him slighting women and minorities, but here's the thing about that; A significant portion of the population doesn't give a fuck about misogyny or racism. A large percentage are active participants or enablers of that. Whereas nobody, NOBODY likes getting stiffed for their work. She dropped the issue that played with 100% of voters and went hard on the issue that played with under half of them. Not exactly killer instinct.

 

[Snowybreak]

This man is probably one of the major reasons I grew into the person I am today. Seeing a somewhat unveiled version of the world revelling in such a singular passion (food) was my gateway to the passion I have now. The writing and descriptions of what he saw and ate all throughout the world during No Reservations made me seek out these simple pleasures later in life, causing me to attempt to recreate what I saw and morph it into something more unique and personal.

If I was writing a paper in high school about the most influential person in my life, it would probably have to be this man.

 

[Chaplain]

Yeah, we should definitely break bread with people who think we are subhuman for being of x descent/having x sexuality

Its been done many times before in various ways. One such example is from Corrie ten Boom. Read her story of when she met one of her concentration camp guard's after WW2 had ended.

Corrie ten Boom on Forgiveness

“ ‘You mentioned Ravensbruck in your talk,’ he was saying, ‘I was a guard there.’ No, he did not remember me.

“ ‘But since that time,’ he went on, ‘I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fräulein,’ again the hand came out—’will you forgive me?’

“And I stood there—I whose sins had again and again to be forgiven—and could not forgive. Betsie had died in that place—could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking?

“It could not have been many seconds that he stood there—hand held out—but to me it seemed hours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.

“For I had to do it—I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us. ‘If you do not forgive men their trespasses,’ Jesus says, ‘neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.’

“I knew it not only as a commandment of God, but as a daily experience. Since the end of the war I had had a home in Holland for victims of Nazi brutality. Those who were able to forgive their former enemies were able also to return to the outside world and rebuild their lives, no matter what the physical scars. Those who nursed their bitterness remained invalids. It was as simple and as horrible as that.

“And still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart. But forgiveness is not an emotion—I knew that too. Forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart. ‘… Help!’ I prayed silently. ‘I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.’

“And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.

“ ‘I forgive you, brother!’ I cried. ‘With all my heart!’

“For a long moment we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely, as I did then”

 

[RPGCrazied]

Break bread with the alt right? I don't think so Anthony. I do like your show though.

 

[capitalCORN]

Its been done many times before in various ways. One such example is from Corrie ten Boom. Read her story of when she met one of her concentration camp guard's after WW2 had ended.

Tell me one time high minded liberal issues were the focus of the election. It's was a fucking circus, it's been a circus for as long as time. It's bluster and rhetoric that stirs people's hearts, not a long form essay to sate the mind. It's about catchphrases, and creating fervour out of stadium chants. The right played every since card they had, and then went in even harder on their shit smeared message. And people saw that display and felt excited, even emancipating. The right took a fucking fascist to the White House, while the greater nation collective yawned at the sight. This is not status quo, we don't skirmish in the middle then back off. You dig your feet in, double down on conviction, and fight back from very first inch. Because there's a lot of progress that can be lost now, and this is where the fight becomes about lives.

 

[Slayven]

If there is a subset of "progressives" and "liberals" that want to do some weird form of masochism masterbation by pretending bigotry is a valid viewpoint. More power to you.

But folks that got lives on the line will continue to do their own thing

"But Slayven keep talking like that and you will lose again"

I am a black man in America I am use to it, y'all the ones that got to get use to the struggle.

Cause it is not about me hugging a klan member, you just don't want to call out racist Poppop and Uncle Clyde