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Anyone else creeped the **** out by old cartoons?

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Mustaphadamus

Mustaphadamus

Member
tedtropy said:
From the bad animation, to the blatant racist overtones, style of the drawings, voiceovers, and music there's just something about old cartoons that have always creeped me out. Even now I'm watching Astro Boy episodes on Adult Swim and know it's bound to give me nightmares, although I'm fascinated with how many anime stylings this show basically created that are still apparent to this day. WW2 propaganda cartoons are the worst of them all.

1930's style Micky Mouse will murder us all.
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I was watching the original dumbo with my son and man the racism was simmered to a perfection.
 
J

Jacobi

Banned
So... Would you find this drawing racist ? It's from a cartoon I'm working on right now...
i136575_skinhead6.gif
 
D

Dali

Member
Rlan said:
The only ones that have truly freaked me out are the Rotoscoped or Racist Betty Boop ones. They're just scary.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HaZOXF83zBg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NIxHfwhckcs
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Yeah those are awesome. I started two Diggs a long time ago to let people know they can download them in addition to the original Superman cartoons (and a lot more stuff) from archive.org. They are now in the public domain.

If you liked those, download "You, Rascal You" (featuring Louis Armstrong in black face) and "The Old Man and the Mountain" (another Cab Calloway one).
 
D

Dali

Member
I mentioned this in the Tintin thread, but here is an actual link to it. It's an early Bugs Bunny cartoon where Elmer actually catches him. It's at the end, but it has Bugs, Elmer and a firing squad all singing in black face. I originally saw this on cartoon network when the station was in it's infancy, but since then the blackface part has been edited out wherever they air it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uah9ZY9YOw
 
T

thomaser

Member
This is not a cartoon, and it's not that old, but recent studies have shown that Pompel & Pilt is the main cause of up to 30% of psychological traumas, anxiety and other mental disturbances in Norwegians between 30-35. The innocent tales of two good-natured reparateurs turn into nightmares as they're constantly chased by the sinister caretaker Gorgon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kNJNe7HGE
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
I remember so many racist cartoons, it really hurt to see some things. The blackface was a staple of many cartoons. Oddly enough I wasn't too offended by Bosko... I don't really know why though.
 
J

J2 Cool

Member
Dolphin said:
And contrary to what someone else said before, the black stereotypes in these cartoons are very different from the stereotypes used for other people. The black stereotypes are inhuman to the point where they bear more similarity to animals from the cartoons than people. It's very sinister.
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True, that's the worst part about it. You look at the cartoon Blackace posted and it's just ridiculous. There's an obvious line crossed between racism of the times and being severely racist even. I think Clampett's meanwhile was very offensive, but did create characters. So White, Prince Chawmin, and the witch were actually seperatable, unique characters. Racism was abound in the film, but I'd classify it of the time more so than a personal statement in this case.

I'm speaking on this cartoons design individually, and I think a few others I'm not as knowing of may fit under there, that their design's offensiveness come from an approach they make to animation and cartoons in general with any character. The quality is awful on this, which may skew the viewer, but they're not purely dark black with stereotypes piled on. Some screengrabs..



And the cartoon's character actions are more dynamic than some of the other cartoons. The concept was obviously created in humor of parodying Snow White. Making them the central core of the story. Emotionally, narratively, entertainment-wise. Again, not saying it's not racist. I think it is, but one I think is a production of it's time, mixed with trying to be edgy and Looney Tunes' zaniness they applied to anything. Specifically Clampett, who defined that edginess/wackyness. I don't think they outpushed their other cartoons with this cartoon, or pulled back on any humanity. They didn't rise above or exist below anything else in his cartoons as entertainment. They pretty much fit in.

Anyway, I'm curious to know what Song of the South's truly like. That's Disney's biggest racist cartoon according to word of mouth. The name's implies more racism than I've seen in screengrabs and very short clips aired in documentaries on Disney - which would skim over the film. Does anyone know particularly what was done in that cartoon? And what was your impression of it.

beelzebozo said:
this cartoon may be my most favorite thing ever.
"book revue," directed by robert clampett
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It's my favorite. I love the Danny K bit with Daffy.
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
J2 Cool said:
Anyway, I'm curious to know what Song of the South's truly like. That's Disney's biggest racist cartoon according to word of mouth. The name's implies more racism than I've seen in screengrabs and very short clips aired in documentaries on Disney - which would skim over the film. Does anyone know particularly what was done in that cartoon? And what was your impression of it.
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Song of the South isn't particularly difficult to find. People say it's extremely racist but I'm iffy on the matter--the story's set in the Reconstruction Era South, a time when blacks were still being heavily depended upon as servants. The blacks in the film are all real people--no animations--and they're pretty much on equal footing with most of the other real people in the film; aside from their stations in life, there isn't much to imply any real racist undertones. The worst that's in the film is a young black boy who behaves and talks like a complete idiot--aside from him, the other blacks are handled as cultured, respected, intelligent individuals.

A lot of people say that Uncle Remus's stories are inherently racist; this has been a topic of debate ever since the first compilation of the tales in the 1860's. The dialect the stories were written in, an exaggerated deep southern, has been pointed to as being an indication of racist smearing, as well as the intent of the original author. Disney's decision to adapt these stories seems highly questionable to us as modern audiences, but it seems difficult to imagine how it was viewed when the film was made (1946).

I'd like to see a DVD release of the film if only to see a documentary explaining the decision to use these stories, and whether it was believed this would stir much controversy. Knowing what we know of 40's culture, however, I doubt it would have. Just for example, IMDB's trivia for this film states:

"It is alleged that James Baskett, a Black man, was unable to attend the film's premiere in Atlanta because no hotel would give him a room".

Clearly society didn't hold the same sort of open mindset we have now. Having watched it, I can say that Song of the South walks a fine line between Racist and Acceptable for its setting, yet it should also be taken into consideration that our definition of what's racist is significantly different from that of individuals in the 40's.
 
N

Novid

Banned
Clearly, there have been discussions about this for years.

But the fact of the matter is that the 1940's are considered the golden age of animation, not just by animation fans but animation historians as well. If you look outside of the racist overtones of that era, the majority of the animation is very beautfull. Of course many of the historians call the 1980's a dark age, while they forget the 1970's were horrendus outside of six or seven shows in that 9-12 year period (1969-1980) the majority of which were anime that came very late in the 1970's.

You also have the note that these animations wernt ment for children nessarlly. There wasnt a "Childrens market" outside of certain animation (mostly Disney) and this was not created until the late 50's. Then, already animation was under Hays Code, so alot of the animatiors wanted to do with Betty and Popeye had to change up. The only way that they can be agressive, was to do such things like this, and do proprganda pieces for WWII. But thats only like a third of the majority of animation produced then.
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
FTWer said:
seems like a good time to ask this, was Walt Disney really a nazi symphathizer or is that just a myth?
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Walt was actually a huge supporter of America's entry into the war. He pushed for the government to enter, supported their decision by dedicating much of his team's efforts towards creating training and informational videos, and made many pro-America propaganda shorts during WWII.

People say he was a known anti-semitic, but I've never seen anyone bother to support it. All one needs to see that he supported entry into the fray of WWII is the Disney On The Front Lines DVDs, which are widely available.
 
Blackace

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
blame space said:
Awww, so that cartoon isn't real? I was ready to openly mock Mormons.
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the cartoon is a mockery of what the mormons believe.. it is funny enough without adding stuff.. the urban myth that the mormans own a large part of coke or sometimes pepsi (which was the first version I heard) and that is why cola is ok to drink but not coffee or tea... which isn't true
 
F

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
JzeroT1437 said:
Walt was actually a huge supporter of America's entry into the war. He pushed for the government to enter, supported their decision by dedicating much of his team's efforts towards creating training and informational videos, and made many pro-America propaganda shorts during WWII.

People say he was a known anti-semitic, but I've never seen anyone bother to support it. All one needs to see that he supported entry into the fray of WWII is the Disney On The Front Lines DVDs, which are widely available.
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Well technically weren't most of those propaganda videos anti-Japanese & not so much anti-nazi?
After all George H. Bush's father, Percy Bush, was a avid nazi supporter & helped them launder money, but when the war broke out he switched side quick enough to enlist his son to fight in it.
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
FTWer said:
Well technically weren't most of those propaganda videos anti-Japanese & not so much anti-nazi?
After all George H. Bush's father, Percy Bush, was a avid nazi supporter & helped them launder money, but when the war broke out he switched side quick enough to enlist his son to fight in it.
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Not from what I've seen. There are a couple of cartoons made, such as "The Fuhrer's Face" and "Education for Death", which are directly opposed to the Nazis and openly ridicules Hitler.

It is true that most of the morale-boosting shorts featured negative Japanese imagery (much like the way Indians are portrayed in Peter Pan, etc), but there are no cartoons directly aimed at the war in the Pacific. It would therefore seem that Walt and his animators felt the Nazis were a more dangerous party to be concerned with.

I still have yet to see any evidence that Walt was anti-semitic. People always throw it around like it was a fact, but I've never seen any proof--it feels more like one of those rumors that get perpetuated to smear the image of a good man.
 
E

explodet

Member
I take the whole "Walt Disney was anti-semitic" thing as seriously as I take the "Walt Disney's head is cryogenically frozen" thing.
 
H

hobbitx

Member
explodet said:
I take the whole "Walt Disney was anti-semitic" thing as seriously as I take the "Walt Disney's head is cryogenically frozen" thing.
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For the most part Disney doesn't appear to have had strong political views--his politics seemed to turn on whatever it took to keep his studio going. It's likely his interest in the German American Bund sprang from a desire to forge relationships with Germany for possible film distribution there. On the other hand, there was a lot of antisemitic feeling in the Disney studio. While no one can specifically attribute bias to Disney himself, Jewish people were ready fodder for the animators' gags and Disney approved every scene in every short the studio made. In one scene in the original version of "The Three Little Pigs," the Big Bad Wolf comes to the door dressed as a stereotypical Jewish peddler. Disney changed the scene after complaints from Jewish groups. They didn't catch them all, though. In the short "The Opry House" Mickey Mouse is seen dressed and dancing as a Hasidic Jew.
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Interesting...
 
J

JzeroT1437

Member
I've read about the Bund meetings, but as the article points out, Walt's attendance and personal political beliefs were ambiguous at best. The fact that he dedicated most of his staff to wartime efforts and approved the anti-nazi cartoons himself would seem to undermine his attendance at these events.

It's difficult to say why he was there, but I don't really think that a dancing Hasidic Mickey is proof enough to show that he hated Jews.
 
H

hobbitx

Member
I didn't really either with the simple culture references, but I think the article was implying those references were anti-semitic sentient within the studio spilling over into the work. That article really didn't explain much, you'd think with all the people whispering this for so long someone would seriously address it, true or not.

Found some more not so 'spooky', but quite mature and out there older stuff.
Rooty Toot Toot......Riiiiight in the snoot!
The Rise of Duton Lang
Disney Mars and Beyond
I almost swear this is that astrobiology cartoon I saw, but I'm certain there was one Warner Bros. made that aired on Looney Tunes which was just freaky considering how serious in tone the animation was.
 
G

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
I wrote a paper last semester about racist and sexist overtones in cartoons in the 20th century. It really is amazing how different the world was.
 
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