Hestisdabest
Member
Going off the past game, a single raid won't be enough..Unless they change alot of things up (I doubt it) people are going to get bored of the raid really quickly.
Yup pretty much :/
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Anyone else disappointed with Destiny 2 reveal?
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Yup pretty much :/
What? Where?
They've already confirmed there's much more content here than there was back when Destiny only had one raid.
A proper campaign is the only thing here that fits the required sequel feature list. But if they're just as short and the same press this button and defend for 3 waves we got from Destiny 1 they're going to be destroyed for it and rightly so. Outside of a comprehensive campaign really nothing shown is exiting expansion territory.
One each 3 sounds better IMO
Exploratory
Banned
People saying aww only 1 raid....there's a lot about D2 I don't like. That isn't one of them. More than 1 raid is a horrible idea. Let the community focus on 1 at a time.
ethomaz
Banned
NullPointer
Member
Yeah. I'd be jazzed about a grounds-up rethink of the game's systems, but I haven't seen it yet.
The biggest change I see on the PvE front is the changes to weapon slots, ie. kinetic, energy and heavy.
Am I still going to burn through the campaign and be left with running bounties and patrols on low level content, one story mission daily and a small handful of strikes to run endlessly before the next DLC? Are the truly rewarding side missions going to be relegated to short public event or timed mini-horde or boss rushes?
How does Destiny 2 change up the grind? Is there any auto-scaling or auto-balancing or torment levels? When I boot up Destiny on any given night how many missions will be available for me to play, at my level, and that offer good drops or upgrades? Will new DLC increase that number or decrease it? Can I tailor my build and gear to make bosses less spongy (outside of pure DPS)? Is infusion expanded? Should we expect a gear reset with each subsequent DLC or can we carry over and upgrade everything we've acquired to that point?
Can I customize armor and weaponry more in D2? Is PvE and PvP still tied at the hip to where balancing one can lead to negative effects on the other? Any improvements to netcode in PvP? Any changes to gear normalization? Does D2 allow for larger combat scenarios? Larger groups of enemies to tackle?
I agree. I also think some D1 diehards will want to stay with their characters for a while. But by and large, I don't think consumers have forgotten getting burned by the first one. Yes there is a vocal and sizeable fanbase for D1, but I don't see destiny 2 selling much outside of that group unless the content and reviews are much better.
I think Bungie cashed in on their goodwill/pedigree in the first one and since this looks like the same game engine with the same content issues, I predict somewhat lower sales at launch.
Yeah the first game had the gloss of Bungie going multiplat. Which rightfully helped the game a lot.
I personally found the first game tedious after a while. A shame as the actual controls and stuff like the sparrow were great, but the world was repetitive and not fun to explore. The weapons lacked kick and the waves of enemies style battles were simply dead boring.
So far I'm not seeing those things really improved here for my own tastes. I guess if the game scratches that loot grinding need for a player they'll be into this.
D2 is going to sell buckets. I don't think this is really debatable at this point.
Psychoward
Banned
Borderlands 3 would be hung from the tallest internet tower if there weren't any new classes introduced lol
Speaking of Destiny being compared to similar-ish games
"Oh no there's too much end-game content at launch, we'd rather just have a single raid and pay $20 for the next one!"
Speaking of Destiny being compared to similar-ish games
Can you imagine if this was used as an excuse for an actual MMO? lol
"Oh no there's too much end-game content at launch, we'd rather just have a single raid and pay $20 for the next one!"
Seems to me like they are embracing the grind. I would be willing to bet the storytelling is a bit clearer, maybe some minor QoL improvements like raid matchmaking or reduced load times (perhaps story cutscenes can act to mask these with the increased RAM of PS4 over last gen consoles).
But my guess is this is a cookie cutter sequel, forced by the contract with Activision. Pretty sure it was leaked that they need to release 3 games in X years plus DLC else the dev loses some money.
Still, I would have thought 36 months was long enough to revamp the engine. Especially since it seemed they had kind of abandoned D1, it really makes me curious what such a large team was working on.
Relative to D1? Why?
Of course they will pump out a bunch of advertising for D2. But I bet the returns are lower than D1 and we'll see reduced take-up.
Captain Smirk
Member
Yep a new raid every 3 months, 4 each year would be perfect, by the 12th raid your basically breezing through it hoping for the missing exotic you haven't got yet
Weird, you'd think your questions would be answered by the reveal event. Instead of having a presentation while saying almost nothing of substance about what was wrong with the first and actually detailing what was done to improve what matters.
The fact that someone actually walked onto that stage and said something to the effect of "We've never had this many story missions or cinematics in a Destiny game." was absolutely insane.
geordiemp
Member
Only players who have never had the please of a raid would say only one raid, I agree.
One of my finest gaming memories last 20 years was my first vault of glass, it was something else.
Sums up many of my thoughts/questions well, and why I was disappointed with the reveal.
Also fully admitting that my expectations were clearly too high, having let the talk about a full revamp from the ground up push my hype to unreachable levels. The seemingly credible rumors about the massive Saturn patrol area, outposts, etc made me hope that they were taking a step towards more RPG elements. I wanted crafting. A new class, a new race, be it playable or enemy. I wanted to see them finally break free of the engine that hobbled them for so long and go nuts, instead of just playing it safe. The footage of Amanda picking you up in the Homecoming mission just felt like another twist of the knife, since our ships are still just screensaver decorations.
Having said all that, I'll most likely still get the game, and I'm sure it'll still play great. I'm just pretty bummed that, at least based on the little bit we've gotten so far, it's once again not the game I hoped for.
There are people who actively want to play a single raid for months?
Destiny 2 is desperately going to need stuff to do daily/weekly once the campaign is over*. Considerably more than 6 strikes and/or 1 raid would be a start. Also, free roam that isn't laughably bad.
*This means at release, not months down the line.
Destiny 2 is desperately going to need stuff to do daily/weekly once the campaign is over*. Considerably more than 6 strikes and/or 1 raid would be a start. Also, free roam that isn't laughably bad.
*This means at release, not months down the line.
I mean, ask anyone whether they want more content or less content, and realistically no one is going to say "Hey, yeah, give me less content. And make me pay for it too!" But theres an actual argument to be made for quality v quantity.
For example you could put eleven - eleven! - new classes into Borderlands 3 and you're going to end up with redundancies, repeats, imbalances, and cool ideas spread out over the eleven characters instead of, say, what could have been four or five focused designs.
And then you're still stuck playing Borderlands instead of a much better game (lol).
Regarding your comment about raids, WoW, an "actual MMO," has launched several times with only one "current" raid to start. And its never been a problem? The benefit of having one raid is you get to focus the raid team on putting all their effort into one good release, and you get to focus the entire community on one raid. The more options the community has, the more spread out they are, and generally they all stick with either the most efficient (as we see with strikes or dungeons) or the "fun" one. Anecdotally, I ran Karazhan more times than I ran any of the three raids available at the beginning of Mists of Pandaria because more people wanted to run it, it was relevant longer, and it was a better use of everyones time.
Besides, if you have one raid with twelve encounters, and three raids with four encounters, isn't that technically the same amount of content? The road to cynically comparing content by numbers instead of quality is fraught and paved with salt. One Mario is worth a dozen Yooka-Laylees.
whalleywhat
Member
Seeing as their entire rationale for running back all of their statements about Destiny 1 being a platform was that major changes necessitated a new game, the extent to which all of the footage I've seen thus far looks a whole lot like Destiny is... surprising? (Maybe not, given what's been going on between Activision and Bungie). Maybe there are bigger changes than can be noticed at first glance, but these changes are what they need to be leading with, not "Liked Destiny? Here's more." Yes, it will keep uncritical Destiny fans happy, but so would a stream of $40 DLCs, not another $60+ game. They need to address all the people who bought the first game and thought it had major problems and all the fence-sitters, which I thought was the point of starting over. As it is, it just looks like a cash grab.
Agreed. Cash grab might be a bit on the harsh side because I'm sure the people who LOVED D1 will also love D2, as opposed to shitting out a game that relies on title only.
But I think the people who love D1 (many of whom seem to be in this thread) suffer from an echo chamber, that thought TTK somehow made things right with the people who were originally burned by D1. The reason TTK got such strong impressions is because only people who love D1 are willing to pay $40/$30 for a small sliver of new content.
But actually, I think this might be the right move for Bungie, the more I think about it. You have a crowd that is super addicted to your game / to the loot grind. They've demonstrated they are willing to shell out a bunch of money for 5-10 hours of fresh content, and are happy to replay that content again and again and again. In that world, you don't really want to unleash a ton of new content. It's better to keep them coming back and paying more for tiny doses.
edit: Basically, forgo the customers that don't want to endlessly replay content / pay a lot for very little. Those customers would just lead to a negative backlash anyway. Focus on the hardcore and milk them for what they are happy to pay.
You're talking absolute nonsense.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
Very much this: or every 3 months or so - what was shown for D2 was amazing though, I'm not sure why people are acting like it was underwhelming....it hit all the right buttons for me (a veteran since Alpha).
Aren't you the poster who just last page talked about how we should have "reasonable discussion"?
Anyways I'm muting you because I think you are a part of the fan base that likes to tone police and decide what is and what is not "reasonable". Basically we are allowed to critique how some weapons were slightly unbalanced, but the idea that $30 for a few maps and a raid or two is overpriced? Oh that's absolute nonsense.
Reasonable discussion is good, but so is calling out ridiculous stuff like the part I bolded.
Unless you'd like to further clarify that part and explain what I'm getting wrong, but I guess that's off the cards now.
The Taken King brought with it:
Entirely new area, art and all
New world content in that area
New campaign missions
Three new subclasses
New enemy "race"
Four new strikes
Three new pvp competitive modes
Eight new pvp maps
New raid
And Year Two, which brought with it:
Year One content improvements
A new leveling system
Bounty improvements
Quest improvements
New social features
Faction/reputation improvements
Legendary Marks
Armsday
Vault space improvements
The Taken King was a huge update. For a lot of people, it was the "Reaper of Souls" of Destiny 1.
Sorry I'm not trying to make this personal but I look at that and don't see much. There seems to be a fair amount of repetition, like:
Entirely new area, art and all
New world content in that area
New campaign missions
I'm not sure what differentiates a new area vs new world content. And how many of the campaign missions / strike missions were located in the same area but just had different objectives / spawn points? For the new enemy race, how many different cannon-fodder enemies were there? Excluding bosses / mini-bosses, I mean.
For me, for content it looks like 7-8 campaign missions, 4 strikes, some pvp maps (unclear if these are also on the same maps as the strikes?), and a new raid.
For gameplay they added 3 new subclasses and some pvp modes.
For the rest, it seems like the standard stuff you'd expect in a patch -- minor QoL fixes like vault space or leveling adjustment. Except if I recall correctly, there was also a bunch of new items / gear that made anyone without TTK basically uncompetitive in MP, right?
edit: Basically, it might be a decent $15 expansion, but not the second coming. I don't doubt that for a lot of people actually playing, that it was like the "Reaper of Souls", but for people that "checked out" after realizing how little Destiny 1 provided I don't think TTK made it a suddenly much better game. If anything, I think a lot of the Reaper of Souls improvements (like removing Auction house and changing drop rates) helped D3 even if you didn't buy RoS. But with TTK, if you don't buy it, you're kind of s.o.l. because the new gear is gated behind the content, right?
edit 2: Put another way, if you're not the kind of person who likes to replay content, TTK doesn't add that much, right? Maybe 5-10 hours of gameplay. If you're already a fan of the gameplay loop, then sure it can add hundreds or thousands of hours. I only played D3 once at launch but still felt it was a reasonable value. 20-30 hours and a kind of interesting, if over the top, story. I bought Destiny 1 for $15 and feel the 10-15 hours I spent with it was okay, though I was never motivated enough to actually finish due to the poor story and the requirements to grind levels to move to the next story mission. But at $10-15, I'll admit there was enough content there for someone who doesn't like to replay it.
I think the question in my mind was whether Destiny 2 would be more of the same, that is, a game whose value is derived solely from replaying content again and again, or a game that can still provide value without that repetition. I may pick Destiny 2 when it hits $10 (probably not $15 since I never finished D1) or maybe a trilogy remake in 5-10 years at $20.
Nydius
Member
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree. Destiny MTs are the perfect example of the problem with modern gaming MTs.
Consider this from the perspective of a day 1 player like myself. I paid $60 for the game at release, then another $35 for the expansion pass. Another $30 for Taken King upgrade. Then they came out with Eververse where they claimed the money earned through the Silver store would help subsidize more frequent updates.
First off, let's point out the obvious laughable part of that statement: This game already made tons of money. It had the backing of a highly reputable developer and one of the most lucrative publishers. It didn't NEED microtransactions to subsidize anything. Then, what did all these transactions get us really? Very little, if you think about it. A few periodic seasonal events that were designed, mostly, to push the sales of more boxes, Sparrow Racing League, and the "April Update" which just retooled Prison of Elders and relaunched it. When they did finally come up with a MAJOR update in Rise of Iron, it was yet another pay-for expansion... $10 more than Taken King with demonstrably less content.
Day one purchasers who have kept their content current have been absolutely raked over the coals and Bungie still had the audacity to try to sell the idea that they needed to sell MTs to pay for development? GTFO with that nonsense. Eververse is the prime example of pernicious greed in AAA games.
Your WoW comparison doesn't really hold water because Blizzard never once said they needed the money from those MTs to promote development nor did they ever integrate MT-related loot boxes into the core game itself. In WoW, the store tab can be completely ignored - in Destiny the MTs were integrated into the core gameplay loop, with Tess bugging you every time you walked by her in the Tower and the game itself "rewarding" you with the boxes as a weekly reminder that you can buy some more.
Oh jeez, as sort of a casual observer to this stuff, this was way worse than I expected. I played 10-15 hours of D1 and never bought TTK (I might have for $5 or so), so I sort of checked out. I thought the "MTs" discussed were limited to the limited-content expansions. I thought those were bad enough for MP focused people, since they locked the far more competitive gear behind the expansions. But Eververse sounds pretty rotten as well.
veloxStrix
Banned
Good post. I completely agree. Even if you don't "need" to purchase any of the microtransactions, the whole thing still reeks a bit. Overwatch and Titanfall offers content for free and microtransactions to cover that. Destiny asks for 100+ dollars over its lifespan and then would like you to donate some more for "additional content" (and dancing).
Laurel_McFang
Member
It still doesn't solve the basic condrum of why I would rather still play the original Halo rather than Destiny. It's just a surprisingly thin line of paint on a game that seems stretched thin, by skinner box MMO style rewards. Halo is fine, enjoyable, has great world design, Destiny is fun and has great world design, but it also wants me to play it everyday for no reason. Its like being stuck in an elevator with a sociopath who slowly picks away your defenses trying to get you to do what he wants. Destiny needs compelling fun reasons to play with others which exist in the PvP, but it has yet to solve the co-op problems entirely.
It still feels like Bungie is in some weird panic mode unable to completely get its stuff together and perform the way it used to. Maybe the Activision buy out is to blame? Maybe the senior staff that left? Maybe to much Zep in the hallways? Don't iterate on a flawed idea, find a new one.
It still feels like Bungie is in some weird panic mode unable to completely get its stuff together and perform the way it used to. Maybe the Activision buy out is to blame? Maybe the senior staff that left? Maybe to much Zep in the hallways? Don't iterate on a flawed idea, find a new one.
Taken King was $40. Rise of Iron was $30.
Microtransactions have always been largely cosmetic. MT gear comes with perks and can be leveled up so you can still wear great looking MT gear at max level, but the best items still come from raids and high-level PVP.
TheTylerDurden
Member
I think for the most part, many of the D2 differences are invisible to people who aren't super intimate with the game. The reveal was unquestionably for the fans of the game. Not much needed to be explained, the differences jumped off the screen.
This won't mean much to non-fans, but the story alone is a huge deal. The idea that the tower is lost and we get to see the vanguard using their powers and working with more 'at stake' is a big change that will have more impact for fans.
The outlay of the plans for clans, guided games - everything said there was for fans who may have been frustrated with their inability to access certain content because of lack of matchmaking systems. Bungie has come up with what I think is some creative attempts to make raid matchmaking with guided games, and greater team building with more robust clan integration.
But this will mean nothing to anyone who hasn't already played. I saw so many things that will positively change the way I play the game. This is no DLC for me, it's a huge change to some pretty core things.
I can easily see that Bungie (intentionally or otherwise) did not aim this reveal at new players - at all, with the exception of offering on PC. The entire narrative of the reveal was Bungie talking to fans, they didn't have to "explain" much.
My primary worry was that gunplay would have been drastically changed to take away the magic of that experience. It seems that worry was unfounded, and those things were kept as is, which I am grateful for.
This won't mean much to non-fans, but the story alone is a huge deal. The idea that the tower is lost and we get to see the vanguard using their powers and working with more 'at stake' is a big change that will have more impact for fans.
The outlay of the plans for clans, guided games - everything said there was for fans who may have been frustrated with their inability to access certain content because of lack of matchmaking systems. Bungie has come up with what I think is some creative attempts to make raid matchmaking with guided games, and greater team building with more robust clan integration.
But this will mean nothing to anyone who hasn't already played. I saw so many things that will positively change the way I play the game. This is no DLC for me, it's a huge change to some pretty core things.
I can easily see that Bungie (intentionally or otherwise) did not aim this reveal at new players - at all, with the exception of offering on PC. The entire narrative of the reveal was Bungie talking to fans, they didn't have to "explain" much.
My primary worry was that gunplay would have been drastically changed to take away the magic of that experience. It seems that worry was unfounded, and those things were kept as is, which I am grateful for.
Seyfert
Member
Im disappoint but i guess i will eat it up anyway because i want my cayde figurine.
In the end, i just want to playthrough their story campaign just like Borderland game. I dont interest in everything they try to throw to me. For community (i heard destiny community is one of the best) but because i dont have time to dedicate for so i dont care
In the end, i just want to playthrough their story campaign just like Borderland game. I dont interest in everything they try to throw to me. For community (i heard destiny community is one of the best) but because i dont have time to dedicate for so i dont care
CrudeDiatribe
Member
The story missions had very little overlap in the geography covered until you got into the post-main-story mission story missions/quests. All told there was a lot more than 8 missions.
The Taken enemies, while mostly re-using existing models with the new ugly white/grey/black skins, are more interesting and difficult foes, each with a new mechanic differentiating them from their peers and the source enemies.
PvP maps are entirely different from PvE content (except the 4 small missions that used a PvP space for a mission, but it was re-using the PvP maps and not multipurpose levels like in Halo Reach).
For normal PvP, no, you're not remembering correctly damage/health are normalized so item/character level does not matter. For the two end-game PvP modes you do need to have the expansions to be competitive because level differences scale damage taken and given. The non-cynical justification is that this allows unbalanced items from Year 1 to not be useful.
It was the second coming for the game, though. Massive improvements in many areas that needed it, and TTK (and the patch a week prior) did suddenly make it much more enjoyable.
I quit playing Destiny a few weeks after it came out because it was boring and disappointing. I came back just prior to TTK's release because I met some people at a party who said I should check it out again. I'm glad I did.
It was less expensive than The Taken King, though halfway between the cost of House of Wolves and The Taken King.
Personally, I found it very easy to ignore.
I do agree that the purpose of the MTs was oversold but that's as far as my complaints with it go. The items you can get are purely cosmetic and it is in no way pay-to-win.
I bought the Thriller dance emote because ... Thriller.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty disappointed, yeah. I don't have time to write up a big thing about it but I'm not particularly exited at the moment with what we've seen
They really should have kept it like their previous livestreams, where they announced a new feature and then spent 10-15 minutes demonstrating and exploring that feature in-game. That would have at least demonstrably shown the value of all the stuff they are introducing.
Instead what we got was:
Guy On Stage: "Alright, we've got this new feature and it's going to be awesome! Check out this video."
Guy In Video: "Alright, we've got this new feature and it's going to be awesome!"
Too much telling, not enough showing. As tedious as the HoW and TTK livestreams could get, at least they actually showed off the new systems and gameplay. Simply proclaiming the greatness of new features is not going to win over skeptics.
Instead what we got was:
Guy On Stage: "Alright, we've got this new feature and it's going to be awesome! Check out this video."
Guy In Video: "Alright, we've got this new feature and it's going to be awesome!"
Too much telling, not enough showing. As tedious as the HoW and TTK livestreams could get, at least they actually showed off the new systems and gameplay. Simply proclaiming the greatness of new features is not going to win over skeptics.
I agree about the context behind them implementing micro transactions and the ensuing nothingness that appeared from them but I don't believe that the mt they implemented were inherently damaging. Now that we're here in the end of the games lifetime their addition is definitely souring though.
texhnolyze
Banned
Well, damn.
So, how much money should I prepare to be able to play Destiny 2 for at least 2 years? Minus MT.
Depends
These are prices at release and don't reflect discounts, price decreases, or complete editions (see below for that)
Destiny 1 $60
Dlc 1 + dlc 2 $35
Dlc 1 $20
Dlc 2 $20
Expansion 1 $40
Expansion 2 $30
Total dlc: 105 or 110
Total destiny: $165 or $170
Note: expansion 1 and 2 contained free updates to the game that added new content and remixed (recycled) some old content.
Note: expansion 1 released with a legendary version for $60 that contained base game, first two dlc, and expansion 1
Note: expansion 2 had a complete edition that came with all content for $60
Right now you can buy ALL of d1 for $40 on amazon (compared to veterans who have probably payed around 170 sans micro transactions). We have no idea how much the entirety of d2 will cost but you can see the pricing on amazon right now.
2017-2018: Destiny 2 + Expansion Pass would be $80-$85 if you are willing to buy from Amazon Prime or Best Buy Gamers' Club Unlocked.
2018-2019: Who knows? If they do an expansion at the same price as The Taken King, it would be an additional $30.
texhnolyze
Banned
Ugh.. So season pass only contains dlc 1 & 2, right?
Was there no season pass/expansion pass for year 2?
Year 2 was only one single purchase -- $30 for current players, $40 for new users. All updates after that were free (but less substantial than the paid Year 1 updates).
No, for year two if you already had bought the first two dlc you paid $40 for expansion. If you had never paid destiny you paid $60. People who only bought the first dlc at $20 got the most shafted as their options were to pay a full $60 (legendary edition: dlc 1, 2, expansion) or (dlc 2 and expansion). We don't currently know the breadth of d2s first dlc but d1 first dlc were sort of a rip off. Dlc 1 had barely any content (but to be fair it was $20/35 for both dlc) and was regarded from bad to ok. Second dlc had the same amount of content (sans a real raid) but was regarded well as it brought awesome changes and updates to the game for pvp especially. Summer of dlc 2 before the first expansion is regarded as the pvp golden age by many.
I don't remember it being $30 for current players. I remember paying a full $40 however the second expansion was $30.