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[Taruranto]

Uh ok, please don't compare not being into fapping to video game characters to being against LBGT, thanks.

what about LBGT that faps to videogame characters

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Let's be real you're into anime you should be used to the creepy tag from randoms

 

[Fhtagn]

I'm:

1. All in favor of more women protagonists.

2. Tired of game genres I like pandering to fans who like sexy characters, because it's alienating me.

For example, I loved Cave before they became moe obsessed and their later games are truly embarrassing to me.

I like difficult action games but I'd like at least the option to have the character put some damn pants on.

The older I get, the more intensely I dislike fan service.

 

[Serenade_King]

this guy


and this guy

I would've also say those two but is really hard to say with people (expecially here) since with Gladiolus can be said that he is a power fantasy but Van does look only like a sexualized male to me.

 

[Crossing Eden]

what about LBGT that faps to videogame characters

I mean I would still find that a bit creepy, to elaborate on this, I'm a 3D animator, so for me, while working with a rig, that rig is like my child, I wouldn't want people to fap to my child or to use a rig I created for that purpose.

I'm:

1. All in favor of more women protagonists.

2. Tired of game genres I like pandering to fans who like sexy characters, because it's alienating me.

For example, I loved Cave before they became moe obsessed and their later games are truly embarrassing to me.

I like difficult action games but I'd like at least the option to have the character put some damn pants on.

The older I get, the more intensely I dislike fan service.

Oi this is something we hadn't even touched on ITT is that representation is seemingly getting worse.

 

[Mega]

Holy shit, you weren't kidding.

https://youtu.be/rTW4NCE1YzA

I was referring to a thread on GAF from 2014. Is that Crossing Eden in that video? WTF?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

If you say so. If you're fine with it, I'll just spoil it for you later and why it's fantastic and a rare example of meaningful sexualization. At a Christmas party now, so can't do it atm.

Uh, ok. I honestly really don't care but if you feel like it, have fun.

So because of how the character is dressed/designed, you wouldn't play it?

Silly, but it's your money.

What? Where are you getting this? I didn't say that. Jesus christ pay attention to the conversation thread before butting in. We're talking about the old PS3 game, and I'm not playing it because that game doesn't interest me at all, never has, and I have other games to spend my money on.

 

[neohwa]

Do you consider designing yet another doll faced protagonist who in multiple ways gets sexualized to be creative or brave? Or going against what used to be incredibly common design tropes and putting much more thought into the design of a character WITHOUT sexualization due to her gender? Which one is more creative to you?

Western games are like this: Design male characters as a male, and design female character also as a male. See Injustice.

Japanese games: Design male as a male, female as a female.

Less thought are put into designing Western characters there is no argument about it. They either dress like NPC characters or completely naked. See Heavy Rain, GTA, Witcher, etc. For example, I was greeted by a naked female character in Witcher 3 just from the beginning intro, which was downright offensive for me.

The reason of that is most gaming developers are male, so they have no clue on how to design a female character or what they would wear.

Japanese game developers put more thoughts and research into designing characters and outfits that's for sure. See DoA, Soul Calibur, etc. Female showing some skin because they can and they look good in it, much like some male showing some muscle because they can and look good in it.

If you think female shouldn't dress like a female then I dunno what to say.

 

[Kaisos]

So to summarize, is there a sexualized male character that can't be debated as being something else? I legit want to know and I'm not asking to have a reply fight with anyone.

Maki here would be a good place to start.

Anything Japanese and intended for adult women usually has characters like this to some degree though.

 

[sjay1994]

Wait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.

The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...

I dunno man, but I think your thread is close for the record of "most derails" right behind the last of us part 2 announce thread.

From people going yeah this is a positive to "no look at how sexualized these alt outfits made to pander to creeps", to midriff being nonsensical to stawman arguements about why doesn't western RPG male character have same outfits as Japanese game female characters, to FFXV is a bad game, to Crossing Eden is apparently a racist.

What a ride.

 

[sensui-tomo]

I mean I would still find that a bit creepy, to elaborate on this, I'm a 3D animator, so for me, while working with a rig, that rig is like my child, I wouldn't want people to fap to my child or to use a rig I created for that purpose.

Thank you for the better answer, you could have just said that you feel like the parent who knows their kid is having sex and that makes you feel awkward instead of not clarifying why you find people to be creepy/creeps.

 

[YianGaruga]

If they didn't want people masturbating to them maybe Blizzard shouldn't have given all female characters in Overwatch big asses and skintight suits

just a thought

damn those creepy nerds!

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Holy shit, you weren't kidding.

https://youtu.be/rTW4NCE1YzA

Boy...that sure is something.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Western games are like this: Design male characters as a male, and design female character also as a male. See Injustice.

Japanese games: Design male as a male, female as a female.

[....]

If you think female shouldn't dress like a female then I dunno what to say.

What the hell is this shit?

Reminds me of this:

If they didn't want people masturbating to them maybe Blizzard shouldn't have given all female characters in Overwatch big asses and skintight suits

That is quite true. Blizzard should improve its female representation that's for sure!

 

[Serenade_King]

If they didn't want people masturbating to them maybe Blizzard shouldn't have given all female characters in Overwatch big asses and skintight suits

just a thought

damn those creepy nerds!

You're right but to be fair rule 34 would've still be a thing.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Western games are like this: Design male characters as a male, and design female character also as a male. See Injustice.

What in the world dude? Injustice character designs are not designed as male:Injustice looks like this:

What about that is designed like a male? They're rocking boob armor and lingerie for fighting. What the hell. Injustice is an example of what I usually complain about.

It's more like this is becoming an ever increasing sentiment:
design men with believability in mind, also design women with believability in mind

Japanese games: Design male as a male, female as a female.

More male protagonists in Japanese games look feminine and there's no such thing as "design a female as a female." You realize men and women can be born and look androgynous? And that not dressing in a skimpy outfit doesn't equate to dressing like a man. Your post is sexist AF.

Less thought are put into designing Western characters there is no argument about it. They either dress like NPC characters or completely naked. See Heavy Rain, GTA, Witcher, etc. For example, I was greeted by a naked female character in Witcher 3 just from the beginning intro, which was downright offensive for me.

Ellie, Chloe, Faith, Aloy, Evie, Emily, are designed like npcs? And yes western games usually actually involve sex in some form more often than Japanese games. Witcher being the most prominent example. But they try to make those relationships more believable and not "have two conversations, go on a mission specific to my character, and then i'll fuck you." Bioware is also trying to make that happen with more character scenes besides the two fucking. And don't even get me started on anything David Cage has made when it comes to women.

The reason of that is most gaming developers are male, so they have no clue on how to design a female character or what they would wear.

More women work in the gaming industry here in the west dude.

Japanese game developers put more thoughts and research into designing characters and outfits that's for sure. See DoA, Soul Calibur, etc. Female showing some skin because they can and they look good in it, much like some male showing some muscle because they can and look good in it.

If you think female shouldn't dress like a female then I dunno what to say.

I think the issue is that there's a "dress like a female" mentality going through your post....Ivy isn't "dressed like a female."

 

[DemWalls]

Western games are like this: Design male characters as a male, and design female character also as a male. See Injustice.

Japanese games: Design male as a male, female as a female.

Less thought are put into designing Western characters there is no argument about it. They either dress like NPC characters or completely naked. See Heavy Rain, GTA, Witcher, etc. For example, I was greeted by a naked female character in Witcher 3 just from the beginning intro, which was downright offensive for me.

The reason of that is most gaming developers are male, so they have no clue on how to design a female character or what they would wear.

Japanese game developers put more thoughts and research into designing characters and outfits that's for sure. See DoA, Soul Calibur, etc. Female showing some skin because they can and they look good in it, much like some male showing some muscle because they can and look good in it.

If you think female shouldn't dress like a female then I dunno what to say.

Come on, you're better than this.

This is just as unkind as what Crossing's said about Japanese developers a few pages ago.

 

[Kaisos]

Tabata literally doesn't get it because in Japan, the (male) userbase usually wants female party members because they want to look at something cute or attractive. Like the notion of representation doesn't even occur to him. I'd call it a cultural thing?

 

[Laiza]

The older I get, the more intensely I dislike fan service.

Ayup. It's so frequently creatively bankrupt that I can't help but treat it as an automatic knock against the game if it's included without thought. I see so much of it that it's just become old. It's boring now. There's nothing interesting about yet another outfit designed to expose cleavage, midriff, shoulders, and thighs.

I wish we could see more cool stuff like Samus's various suits, the nanosuit from Crysis (why don't we have female equivalents of this sort of thing?), the proper plate armor you see in the Souls games, and so on and so forth. It's just distressing how rare it is to actually get to play games with armor and outfits that have that level of thought put into them.

We need more of the good stuff, less of the bad. That's all I want.

You're right but to be fair rule 34 would've still be a thing.

That's more reason NOT to bother oversexualizing game characters when it makes no sense to. The fans will already do it for you!

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

What? Where are you getting this? I didn't say that. Jesus christ pay attention to the conversation thread before butting in. We're talking about the old PS3 game, and I'm not playing it because that game doesn't interest me at all, never has, and I have other games to spend my money on.

K.

Let me ask you this then, are you interested in the games listed in the OP?

 

[YianGaruga]

Western game design: Make everyone realistic and be careful not to offend anyone. Trying to be "artistic" and deliver a message

Japanese game design: Male characters are designed to appeal to a female audience, female characters are designed to appeal to a male audience, realism doesn't matter. Trying to be fun entertainment and escapism

This is more accurate

And guess what, both are fine!

 

[Kinyou]

So are you saying the default outfit does not make sense ?
Because I can accept this....

My take is that the default outfit implies the weather where she lives is cold... therefore a hot outfit would not make much sense.

I believe the game will have her journey across the country. She comes from a cold territory but passes this tropical region which I imagine will also have differently dressed tribes.

 

[FloweryMarston]

Reading this slow descent into madness. What the hell is that DSP video? On christmas eve...

 

[collige]

If they didn't want people masturbating to them maybe Blizzard shouldn't have given all female characters in Overwatch big asses and skintight suits

just a thought

damn those creepy nerds!

If they didn't want people masturbating to them they should've prepared themselves 'cause that shit is gonna happen regardless.

 

[Fhtagn]

I mean I would still find that a bit creepy, to elaborate on this, I'm a 3D animator, so for me, while working with a rig, that rig is like my child, I wouldn't want people to fap to my child or to use a rig I created for that purpose.


Oi this is something we hadn't even touched on ITT is that representation is seemingly getting worse.

What's happening is that the market has shrunk, and so smaller companies chase money from people who like fetishes or moe or whatever, in turn alienating people who don't want to play games that veer into that territory, forcing a doubling down on the fetish audience, etc, until they go out of business. (thinking of Cave specifically here.)

 

[That1BlackGuy]

I can say with certainty that sex does sell. If you don't regularly run with those circles then you likely won't know the business end of it, I know many erotic/cheesecake artists that make bank off of their work whether through crowdfunding, commissions, subscriptions and/or selling their work at local events (I was recently linked to a Waypoint article on this). The issue I see regularly with opponents of sex sells is they're looking at it through a rather extremist and narrow lens; adding cheesecake to a project doesn't have to be all-or-nothing to benefit from it. Dead of Alive doesn't need to sell a millions copies to be successful, but it can rake in extraordinary amount of dollars in DLC costumes. A game with a sexualized character can draw extra awareness to it that it didn't have before (see how Dragon's Crown profited off its controversy). A project with these elements in them doesn't necessarily need to draw pure dollars only, they can benefit from cheesecake in other ways. Whether that's right or wrong depends on your views, but the benefits are there.

Speaking to a more broad point, creators are going to create what is aesthetically pleasing to them, sexist or not. How the west has progressed in terms of female character presentation is undoubtedly admirable, but that doesn't give cheesecake critics a free pass to pass cultural superiority over other creators and their consumers because they choose to ignore that feedback and make/consume more titty/thong armor.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

K.

Let me ask you this then, are you interested in the games listed in the OP?

I am very interested in Horizon (based on gameplay footage) and moderately interested in Gravity Rush 2 (based on the demo). I am not interested in Nier Automata because the demo was trash.

Why are you asking me, anyway?

Tabata literally doesn't get it because in Japan, the (male) userbase usually wants female party members because they want to look at something cute or attractive. Like the notion of representation doesn't even occur to him. I'd call it a cultural thing?

Western game design: Make everyone realistic and be careful not to offend anyone

Japanese game design: Male characters are designed to appeal to a female audience, female characters are designed to appeal to a male audience, realism doesn't matter

This is more accurate

Careful, I'm pretty sure generalizing about regional design patterns make you a racist, I learned this in this thread...

 

[YianGaruga]

If they didn't want people masturbating to them they should've prepared themselves 'cause that shit is gonna happen regardless.

The number of people that will masturbate to Aloy (?) is significantly lower than the same for Widowmaker.

I know what you're saying, but Overwatch was 100% designed with sex appeal (i.e. sex sells) in mind.

Careful, I'm pretty sure generalizing about regional design patterns make you a racist, I learned this in this thread...

It makes you a racist if you call one of the two stupid and inherently worse because you don't like it

 

[sjay1994]

Reading this slow descent into madness. What the hell is that DSP video? On christmas eve...

Well DSP and masturbation do correlate, but man this thread has left the rails and flying into the stratosphere.

I'm basically just checking to see how far from the OP it will go.

Happy Holidays everyone

 

[Kinyou]

if it's hotter out first of all she's wearing more armor everywhere EXCEPT for her stomach and she's already wearing an undershirt, it's just seemingly pulled up for some odd reason.

The extra amor she's wearing looks super light to me. Like on her arms it's just strapped around.Her armpits are completely free for example.

Also, again, what if she pulls the undershirt up to sweat less? I mean if she only has an undershirt to cover that area anyway it doesnt make much of a difference regarding armor.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Tabata literally doesn't get it because in Japan, the (male) userbase usually wants female party members because they want to look at something cute or attractive. Like the notion of representation doesn't even occur to him. I'd call it a cultural thing?

As more and more western people get involved with the development of FF shouldn't this be changing? And ofc they take into account the wants of the western audience to an absurd degree, FFXV ten years ago was gonna take place in a very very Tokyo inspired Insomnia.

Ayup. It's so frequently creatively bankrupt that I can't help but treat it as an automatic knock against the game if it's included without thought. I see so much of it that it's just become old. It's boring now. There's nothing interesting about yet another outfit designed to expose cleavage, midriff, shoulders, and thighs.

I wish we could see more cool stuff like Samus's various suits, the nanosuit from Crysis (why don't we have female equivalents of this sort of thing?), the proper plate armor you see in the Souls games, and so on and so forth. It's just distressing how rare it is to actually get to play games with armor and outfits that have that level of thought put into them.

We need more of the good stuff, less of the bad. That's all I want.

Basically this.

The extra amor she's wearing looks super light to me. Like on her arms it's just strapped around.Her armpits are completely free for example.

Also, again, what if she pulls the undershirt up to sweat less? I mean if she only has an undershirt to cover that area anyway it doesnt make much of a difference regarding armor.

I'm thinking most of her armor is gonna be super light but armor in general is more useful than a linen shirt.

 

[LotusHD]

Western game design: Make everyone realistic and be careful not to offend anyone. Trying to be "artistic" and deliver a message

Japanese game design: Male characters are designed to appeal to a female audience, female characters are designed to appeal to a male audience, realism doesn't matter. Trying to be fun entertainment and escapism

This is more accurate

And guess what, both are fine!

Well, all I can say is lately I've definitely been gravitating to games that are less and less realistic nowadays, the most recent of which also happen to be Japanese games.

 

[Fhtagn]

The number of people that will masturbate to Aloy (?) is significantly lower than the same for Widowmaker.

I know what you're saying, but Overwatch was 100% designed with sex appeal (i.e. sex sells) in mind.

I only know Overwatch from media coverage and a little bit of youtubing but the big difference that strikes me is that Overwatch seems to be trying (not necessarily succeeding, but trying at least) to be genuinely inclusive in a "sexy for everyone!" kind of way where none of it is so egregious as to alienate someone with other tastes, whereas Neir has deisgns that are so over the top it feels more niche/alienating.

Am I offbase?

 

[collige]

The number of people that will masturbate to Aloy (?) is significantly lower than the same for Widowmaker.

I know what you're saying, but Overwatch was 100% designed with sex appeal (i.e. sex sells) in mind.



It makes you a racist if you call one of the two stupid

I'd say that's because
1. Overwatch has a ensemble cast that's set up for shipping
and more importantly
2. Horizon isn't out yet and even once it releases, it'll be vastly less popular due to the fact that's it's a console exclusive and isn't made by fucking Blizzard

 

[YianGaruga]

As more and more western people get involved with the development of FF shouldn't this be changing?.

This allso applies to male characters. There's no reason for it to change

I only know Overwatch from media coverage and a little bit of youtubing but the big difference that strikes me is that Overwatch seems to be trying (not necessarily succeeding, but trying at least) to be genuinely inclusive in a "sexy for everyone!" kind of way where none of it is so egregious as to alienate someone with other tastes, whereas Neir has deisgns that are so over the top it feels more niche/alienating.

Am I offbase?

No I agree! But a lot of Japanese games try to be sexy for everyone too. Overwatch actually has a very Japanese approach to character design imo. Look at Final Fantasy. The male characters that look "too feminine" to a western audience are 100% designed to appeal to (teenage?) japanese girls.

Nier also has a boy android that I'm sure a lot of girls will find cute. It seems to skew more towards a male audience, but not everything can be 50/50. It would make things boring. I'm 100% for there being overall an equal amount of content for everyone, but not by making every single game equally appealing and ruining it in the process.

 

[Astral Dog]

Relative to how they ground things in the setting more often than not compared to Japan. Not that they don't put thought into it but there is a huge problem of sexism there even more so than here when it comes to the design of female characters and that only becomes more apparent as time moves forward since a lot of their studios haven't budged in that regard even for their biggest games, last year we got Quiet, this year we got Cidney, two prominent examples, there's also the issue of alts being completely unreasonable and more like dressing up a doll than an outfit that a character would genuinely wear, nothing about Moara Burton's character makes this ok:

or Sherry:

.

But, what about Christopher Crossing

Or Gladios

Spoiler

not very sensible for a Zombie apicalypse

 

[Crossing Eden]

It makes you a racist if you call one of the two stupid and inherently worse because you don't like it

Dude, one side inherently treating women worse than another side IS worse. It's not just a matter of not liking it like we're talking about preferring different game design philosophies for RPGs. It's straight up about the representation and treatment of women. Equality is incredibly important for not just the game industry but the world as a whole. Japan treating women worse than we do, (honestly consider the context of that statement), is absolutely not something worth fighting for.

But, what about Christopher Crossing

Or Gladios

I do want more male fanservice outfits if a game is gonna include them for women, only thing is, fanservice outfits for males is rare, like, that Gladio outfit isn't in the game, he puts on a tank top if you take off his jacket. Chris Redfield is a hunk, but Leon has never gotten any sexy outfits. Neither did Jake. So that stuff is appreciated but rare when it comes to male equivalents.

 

[Yasumi]

I was referring to a thread on GAF from 2014. Is that Crossing Eden in that video? WTF?

Guess so. I googled Crossing Eden DSP, found he went by another name previously, checked it, and that video popped up. I wasn't expecting that.

 

[yaffi]

what

you're doing this again?

Remember that Blade & Souls thread? I remember that Blade & Souls thread.

On topic: I'm pretty interested in Nier Automata; Gravity Rush 2 not so much since I haven't played the first one yet. Horizon is in buy for half the price territory for now.

 

[YianGaruga]

Dude, one side inherently treating women worse than another side IS worse. It's not just a matter of not liking it like we're talking about preferring different game design philosophies for RPGs. It's straight up about the representation and treatment of women. Equality is incredibly important for not just the game industry but the world as a whole. Japan treating women worse than we do, (honestly consider the context of that statement), is absolutely not something worth fighting for.

That's no excuse for making racist statements

that Gladio outfit isn't in the game, he puts on a tank top if you take off his jacket..

Yeah, no one likes skin-tight tanktops on ripped dudes...

 

[Laiza]

That's no excuse for making racist statements.

That is not a rebuttal.

Stop bringing up things unrelated to the actual argument at hand. Ad hom is considered a fallacy for a bloody reason. If you're going to keep being this disingenuous in your arguments you really should just leave the thread since you're not really contributing anything at that point.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Back on topic and Vex I sincerely apologize for the derail. Interested in Horizon as that genuinely seems like a fun game with a possibly great female protagonist, worried about the story based on the studio's history with great premises and lore but floundered execution. After hands on time with both not interested in the gameplay loop of Nier as i'm pretty over Platinum's gameplay style at this point and don't think it can carry an open world game or GR as i'm not a big fan of the aesthetic but do see why people are so into it, and find the character designs of both to be pretty off-putting.

That's no excuse for making racist statements

It's already been explained to you what was meant by the statement, if you genuinely find that statement racist I'll edit it to be less irate or to make it so that it can't be interpreted as something that's racist. Would that alleviate the issue or would you still think i'm somehow racist against Japanese developers?

Yeah, no one likes skin-tight tanktops on ripped dudes...

Really not a fan of tanktops due to the "wife beater" nickname but wonder why they created a render of him shirtless and then didn't keep it in the game for people who wanna see him shirtless.

 

[LotusHD]

Gravity Rush 2 not so much since I haven't played the first one yet.

Well get to it then

 

[YianGaruga]

That is not a rebuttal.

Neither was CE's post a rebuttal to my original post. I'm not going to indulge his attempts to deflect from his garbage views.

I've made plenty of other posts explaining my view on and defending Japanese character and game design. Feel free to reply to those, but don't tell me to shut up.

i'm willing to drop the subject, but I only replied to Morrigan Stark who brought it up again in an attempt to discredit what I said. I'm not gonna just let that slide

 

[yaffi]

Well get to it then

I had it on the Vita but couldn't deal with the controls; will probably rebuy on PS4 some time in the future.

 

[AlucardGV]

Yeah, no one likes skin-tight tanktops on ripped dudes...

ON A BODYGUARD, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO DRESS LIKE THIS

 

[Riposte]

Ayup. It's so frequently creatively bankrupt that I can't help but treat it as an automatic knock against the game if it's included without thought. I see so much of it that it's just become old. It's boring now. There's nothing interesting about yet another outfit designed to expose cleavage, midriff, shoulders, and thighs.

This seems dishonest. The motivation in backlash against sexualized character designs, particularly of female characters, doesn't really have anything to do it being old-hat or tired. It's not like you want them to take a year off showing off tits and ass and then come back reinvigorated with bigger boobs and fatter butts. You are not "bored" of it, you simply find it sexist or misogynistic and so on - morally repugnant; any conversation on the matter immediately brings this to light and reveals any sort of concern over the not trying hard enough to be simply filler. This is why "it's lazy" is bullshit (as it always is, whatever the criticism is), because it has nothing to do with the amount of effort put into something (unless the only effort that counts is the effort that went into pleasing the person speaking).

CrossingEden's brain statement is stupid for a lot of reasons, one of them being that sex appeal happens in the brain. Everything involving character design, happens in the brain. Aesthetics, happens in the brain. They say "it's an art, not a science", but that doesn't mean it doesn't uses your brain. His "But is it practical!?" itself is just a means to an end, to challenge morally repugnant art.

Don't worry I'm not white so I can say whatever racist statement I want

Also I attended an art university maybe so that makes it double okay tbhhhh

Please do not speak down to the genius of character design, who can embarrass an entire nation with his portfolio. You'll be the one embarrassed once Ubisoft finally hires him to work on Assassins Creed XV.

 

[Basketball]

Buttcheeks hold progress down.

anyone who thinks like this is an idiot

 

[neohwa]

What the hell is this shit?

Where did I say all female should dress like Cindy? Don't assume things or make things up.

Also Cindy was designed by an Italian developer. No thoughts put into her being another example by Western devs.

What in the world dude? Injustice character designs are not designed as male:Injustice looks like this:

They have been criticized by being man-face from majority of fans. Also they move and were animated like a male character. Play the game compared to Soul Calibur.

design men with believability in mind, also design women with believability in mind

None of them are believable. Fighting robots that shoot laser with Aloy's default costume are not going to work.

And that not dressing in a skimpy outfit doesn't equate to dressing like a man.

Where did I suggest such things? Don't make things up.

I think the issue is that there's a "dress like a female" mentality going through your post....Ivy isn't "dressed like a female."

I was thinking more about Talim or Xianghua or Hilde. Again don't make things up.

 

[Nya]

Yeah, no one likes skin-tight tanktops on ripped dudes...

That, and XV is literally every fujiyoshi dream come true.