Obviously I can't force you, but you don't see that kind of dismissive comment as incredibly close-minded? We both want better representation, but when something is sexualized, there better be a damn good reason for it. Nier has a damn good reason for it, unlikely literally every other instance in gaming I can think of.
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Anyone else notice a pattern here? (Nier: Automata, GR 2, and Horizon: Zero Dawn)
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Obviously I can't force you, but you don't see that kind of dismissive comment as incredibly close-minded? We both want better representation, but when something is sexualized, there better be a damn good reason for it. Nier has a damn good reason for it, unlikely literally every other instance in gaming I can think of.
YianGaruga
Banned
Crossing Eden having extreme views disguised as being progressive is nothing new
That's what I want to avoid though. I don't want to be the type of person using the weak rebuttal of "I like this outfit, so that means it must be fine". I'll like 2B's design regardless of what anyone says, but that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the points/concerns other people have made, or see it from their perspective of why they consider it to be inappropriate. As for the practicality part, I only mentioned the high heels due to that being a common trend in that is often criticized when it makes an appearance.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
...in which you reason your racist statements and racist beliefs as well intentioned racism.
Does the exposed midriff make her look less like a tribal hunter? I mean actual tribes who live in hot territories wear even far less.
Movalpolos
Banned
Cool. I'll just put the resident racist that GAF allows on this board on my ignore list then. Haven't had to do that for awhile.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Eh, maybe you're right, but I honestly don't care because I'm never going to play that game.
All while being irritatingly self-serious about it, yes. You can't tell me that TLoU is as devoted to fun, cool concepts as even Jak 2 was. It's about having a message now, despite that message often being thin and unearned.
And I liked TLoU!
The presence of the characters on sites like Pornhub increases visibility of the product, not to mention the mountains and mountains of SFW-ish fanart people have made too.
This is also really creepy in an entirely different way, tbh.
Well that's fine. Thinking it is needlessly sexy or whatever is one thing, but I don't see an item being impractical as valid criticism.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Did you not read that post?
Based on your posts ITT you seem to have some sort of vendetta against me.
FFS are you seriously saying that the acknowledgement of different design philosophies and critiquing one side while also critiquing plenty of aspects of another is fucking racism? I don't think you know what racism means and holy shit do not attend an art university.
Jak and Daxter was incredibly self serious despite the comic relief, it was a story about a dude who at some point in his later life becomes a messiah and builds the best civilization ever in the future in a self perpetuating cycle where he always goes back and does it again. And the messages behind a lot of games are actually quite good. The message of TLOU is not unearned at all.
Again this still boils down to creepy nerds being nerds. I very much doubt the reason for Overwatch's success is due to creeps making porn about the characters. Especially since as you say, there is a shit ton of other fan art that's SFW. Which I would say is much more influential since the characterization is so thin in the game itself that the fan art, comics, and shorts are what people latch on to.
Desexualizing a character who's meant to be the daughter of the main protagonist and thus shouldn't be sexualized is not creepy. I can understand the sentiment.
If you say so. If you're fine with it, I'll just spoil it for you later and why it's fantastic and a rare example of meaningful sexualization. At a Christmas party now, so can't do it atm.
So are you saying the default outfit does not make sense ?
Because I can accept this....
My take is that the default outfit implies the weather where she lives is cold... therefore a hot outfit would not make much sense.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
So because of how the character is dressed/designed, you wouldn't play it?
Silly, but it's your money.
I mean, let's not act like this has 0 merit, considering some of the games that exist out there lol
YianGaruga
Banned
I do? You showed your ass all by yourself, I'm not sure what I have to do with it. Didn't you notice the ~15 other people attacking you for your shitty views?
Don't try and deflect, this isn't about me.
Vanguard771
Member
This started on page one unfortunately.Wait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.
The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...
YianGaruga
Banned
Wait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.
The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...
Kat is so fucking awesome I can't wait for GR2 screw everyone else
She's cute (as in adorable, not sexy) and awesome and acrobatic and can wear whatever she wants
Thank you. AND I AGREE!!!!! I cant wait to see the next part of her exciting adventure!
Wait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.
The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...
You right now:
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Again, you seem to have some sort of vendetta, i'll tell you the same thing I told the last person who had a vendetta and was very transparent about it. Get over it.
I mean somehow this turned into me apparently being racist against Japanese people because I too irately critiqued a common design philosophy amongst their games. Which as a minority, is absolutely ridiculous, gotta give it credit for being an original tear down of my character. ¯\_(Ծ_ԾWait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.
The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...
_/¯
neohwa
Junior Member
I thought Xmas eve is the day when people go crazy? Parasite Eve taught me that.
neohwa
Junior Member
That they are more creative, brave, and fashionable?
Pre-ordered both Nier and GR2, but I'mma wait on Horizon. Buying too many games already, and it comes off more as a game that I should wait for reviews first.
YianGaruga
Banned
same
I know I will enjoy GR2 and NieR, Horizon could turn out to be a boring open world sidequestathon. We'll see
bryanee
Member
I had no interest in either Gravity Rush 2 or Nier before the demos. Since playing them I've pre-ordered them and I'm about to buy the first GR game. Horizon has been a day one game since it was announced, robodino's man.
YianGaruga
Banned
Well you sure showed me! Still not seeing the proof of having a vendetta
whatI mean somehow this turned into me apparently being racist against Japanese people because I too irately critiqued a common design philosophy amongst their games. Which as a minority, is absolutely ridiculous, gotta give it credit for being an original tear down of my character. ¯\_(Ծ_Ծ
you're doing this again?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Do you consider designing yet another doll faced protagonist who in multiple ways gets sexualized to be creative or brave? Or going against what used to be incredibly common design tropes and putting much more thought into the design of a character WITHOUT sexualization due to her gender? Which one is more creative to you?
It really doesn't dude. Seriously.
Everyone but the devs, and Levine is as attached to his character as Neil Druckmann is to Ellie. I don't know if you've ever designed a character legitimately but it's a long process.
You seem to think the following is true:
Meaning that behind the scenes you're pissy by my posts instead of actually addressing them.
Yes because I know what actual fucking racism is. And am incredibly offended at the accusation. Because you didn't put any thought into that fucking accusation at all. Gee, why would it seem like I am more often critiquing the place that is stagnating in terms of representation to the point that designers AND fans openly brag about the inclusion of their fetishes in their designs, I wonder why, in a world where I critique all examples that are meant to maintain the status quo in how women are represented in games and media, and thus, are treated in real life, would critique the place that absolutely is not helping in that regard, whether it's with overtly sexist designs like Quiet or Cidney, terrible alternate outfits for reasonably designed character like Kat or Moira Burton, or terrible reasons for overt sexualization, like Kaine's need to wear lingerie being because she wants to show as much human skin as possible, or horribly written romances, like childhood friends having undying love for the main character. So yea, I have a huge issue with being called a racist and the accusation that my view:women should be represented better. Is extreme. By saying "we like to use our brains," i'm referring more to the creativity and amount of thought that goes into a character design, I wasn't calling Japanese character designers inherently stupid ffs.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Don't worry I'm not white so I can say whatever racist statement I want
Also I attended an art university maybe so that makes it double okay tbhhhh
Also I attended an art university maybe so that makes it double okay tbhhhh
sensui-tomo
Member
Why are you calling people who are attracted to something different creepy? Don't kink shame, it's like old people calling LGBT creepy because they don't like it.(PS they're wrong). It's not anyone's place to call people names.
Edit: making sure I add this little note here, before CE brings it up possibly, anyone thinking of lewd stuff with underaged characters from games is wrong and I'm not endorsing that. People who like that particular stuff need help to get rid of that mental illness.
I have all three pre-ordered. Trying to decide whether or not I can justify the $190 for the Black Box Edition of Nier.
there's a line between acknowledging different design philosophies between cultures and insinuating that the design philosophy from another culture that you are critiquing is the result of the other culture's inherent stupidity or unwillingness to use their brains, and you crossed it, b.
it'd be a lot easier to say "wow i worded that a really dumb way i'm sorry this is what i actually meant" instead of getting belligerent and defensive about it, but i guess that's hard to do when you've clearly demonstrated that you actually believe the garbage your fingers spewed.
Save that money imo
Kudo
Member
Black Box already sold out in EU, I was too late.
Nier and GR 2 are Day 1 definitely, not sure about Horizon.
Nier lead has a superb design. Thigh exposure is not controversial. Watch absolutely any sporting event that doesn't take place in the cold and find out.
Again, you seem to have some sort of vendetta, i'll tell you the same thing I told the last person who had a vendetta and was very transparent about it. Get over it.
I mean somehow this turned into me apparently being racist against Japanese people because I too irately critiqued a common design philosophy amongst their games. Which as a minority, is absolutely ridiculous, gotta give it credit for being an original tear down of my character. ¯_(Ծ_Ծ
You're doing this again? I didn't want a have to drag up old shit, but in the past you went to bat hard for DSP, a YouTuber who made incredibly racist imitations of Asians and went on a SEVERAL minutes long anti-Semitic rant about stomping Jews in a video game.
But I guess that's okay because you're NOT white. Is the racist YouTuber also not white? I guess that handwaves away shitty behavior every time.
I think neither of the two is outrageous, given the game's setup.
For example, we know there will be different environments and climates in the game, so it's possible the skimpier outfit is typical of a warmer area of the game's world. Obviously the player will be allowed to wear it wherever she wants, but that's a concession the devs have to make (in a triple A product at least) to not make the game a chore.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I have GR2 preordered but I'm not getting it at launch. I chose Tales of Berseria instead.
Getting both Horizon and NieR: A, at launch tho.
Let me bring up FFX-2. Even though they leads are sexualized, didn't take away the fact the game was still fun to play. I loved doing the sphere changes into a new outfit.
Getting both Horizon and NieR: A, at launch tho.
Let me bring up FFX-2. Even though they leads are sexualized, didn't take away the fact the game was still fun to play. I loved doing the sphere changes into a new outfit.
Because this is what he does. A couple of days ago he was referring to benign women's silhouettes as strippers and porn stars (the strong implication being that strippers and adult actors are bad people that he can make examples of in his arguments).
But it's cool, guys... the sexism, slut shaming, etc. It's okay because he's not white.
Serenade_King
Banned
It sucks but since the thread is already like this I might as well ask this. Can someone tell me of a actual sexualized male design? Like I have read threads about the subject and when it comes to women there are those that are debatable like 2B but I can say an example of a non-sexualized female for example Ellie from TLoU and a sexualized one like Kagura from Onechambara and no one will debate it because is so clear. But when it comes to male sexualized characters and examples they're usually disregarded as either being power fantasy or "a joke" like for example Raiden from MGS and the naked scene. Just showing skin isn't enough like with females since guys like Kratos or barbarians in general tend to only use a loincloth but it's not to be sexual but to be shown as powerful and costumes like Sailor Chris Redfield are treated as joke costumes when people talk about it. The only example I though I knew for sure was that guy on the Final Fantasy movile game(mobios I think?) that looks like a male version of "armor bikini" but even that was being debated as not sexual by some people on the threads that mentioned it.Wait, what happened in my thread? Guys, chill. It is XMAS eve. Can we have ONE day where we talk about games in a relaxing, positive way? This thread was meant to be positive, and look what happened.
The mods are gonna end up locking tnis, and I dont blame them...
So to summarize, is there a sexualized male character that can't be debated as being something else? I legit want to know and I'm not asking to have a reply fight with anyone.
bryanee
Member
Oh I have Tales pre-ordered as well. First Tales game since Symphonia.
...uh
YianGaruga
Banned
this guy
and this guy
Japanese games are full of this if you know where to look. They make characters that are attractive to male and female audiences. Not equally maybe, but there are a ton of both
Vaan doesn't even have alternate outfits to cover him up!!!!!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Uh ok, please don't compare not being into fapping to video game characters to being against LBGT, thanks.
There's literally an entire post on the last page where I did this, i've clarified multiple times what I meant by that statement. ಠ_ಠ
First of all, that was several years ago and I am completely against that dude's content especially when he tried to defend GG as a reasonable movement. And I was more against the severe harassment and doxxing. I at that time even straight up said that I didn't find those anti-semitic jokes to be funny at all and understood why they were offensive. And can honestly say that defending the actions of that dude absolutely was unacceptable and I am absolutely sorry for that. As it took WAY too long for me to realize that he's a terrible dude who makes terrible jokes, that while they don't seem to represent his views on race issues, are not acceptable to make.
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