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I may remember that incorrectly but the special edition changed over the years and more and more stuff was added/changed... right?

I don't remember the vader NOOO in the VHS versions... but I have not watched them in nearly 20 years.

 

[JettDash]

Exactly! It's completely redundant!

I still don't see why it matters.

If that was in the original would anybody give a shit? I doubt it very much.

 

[spineduke]

Is it really necessary to get upset about something so trivial?

It's valid criticism - I don't really understand your thread. You can be reductive about any film criticism and call it "getting upset at trivial shit" - its just a movie after all.

 

[verboten84]

I still don't see why it matters.

It mattered enough to you to make a thread.

 

[JettDash]

It's valid criticism - I don't really understand your thread. You can be reductive about any film criticism and call it "getting upset at trivial shit" - its just a movie after all.

I understand film criticism. I don't understand actually get mad about it.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

OP, people have listed the reasons why these changes are for the worse many times but instead of addressing them, you're painting a narrative of these people being mad.

What are your favourite Star Wars films?

 

[ScaryShark]

I still don't see why it matters.

If that was in the original would anybody give a shit? I doubt it very much.

...but it wasn't the original. It wouldn't have been as effective if it was.

The 'no' is delivered in a way that Vader never acted like and is totally out of place. It's completely unnecessary. No one was ever confused by that scene about Vader's internal feelings.

 

[MMarston]

Is it really necessary to get upset about something so trivial?

I don't personally mind the changes myself -- likely because I was mostly raised on the non-original versions -- but this is far from trivial.


And as others have put it, it's necessarily the changes themselves, but the adamant refusal to release the original ones that have gotten people in a tussle.

 

[Nydius]

You can not like them but actually getting mad is just ridiculous.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to be mad, especially if you're a late 30/early 40 something who grew up the series in theaters and/or on VHS. Those versions have been altered multiple times and the original versions have been completely removed from sale.

I remember people defending the SE after it came out with the major changes and added CGI crap by saying "Oh, it's now Lucas' original vision!". 20 years after the fact? GTFO of here with that! For 20 years the trilogy was his original vision, when he finally decided to capitalize on DVD he used it as an excuse to add more unnecessary fluff. I would give less than a shit about that or squabbles about who likes which version more if I merely had the option to buy blu-ray versions of the unmolested, pre-SE, trilogy.

 

[spineduke]

I understand film criticism. I don't understand actually get mad about it.

You're not emotionally invested in the films like some others are. That's alright.

 

[Nekketsu Kõha]

I own them and I can't rewatch them. Maybe that is crazy. Actually that with the prequels and now Disney I can't take the franchise serious at all anymore. Done with SW. Will still watch ep 8 and 9 but that's it.

 

[verboten84]

Honestly, I could give a crap about Lucas or anyone else making changes to these films.

What makes me mad is not releasing the originals.

Even Ridley Scott in his drunken senility released almost every version of Blade Runner on BD.

 

[danm999]

I understand film criticism. I don't understand actually get mad about it.

You started off with "upset" and after people have explained why they don't like the changes you started shifting the goalposts to "mad".

You might not be discussing this in good faith.

 

[Bronx-Man]

OP, people have listed the reasons why these changes are for the worse many times but instead of addressing them, you're painting a narrative of these people being mad.

What are your favourite Star Wars films?

the one where the guy says 'beam me up scotty'

 

[54-46!]

"Why are people mad about A? LOL get over it nerds"

"It's because X, Y and Z."

"LOL Y u mad though?"

This is what this thread reads like.

 

[Monocle]

George was either trolling or he must genuinely believe that everyone watching is on the autistic spectrum and can't understand Vader's emotions without some exposition. Maybe George is a bit autistic himself.

Well you see the thing most people don't realize about Darth Vader is that he's actually wearing a helmet, so you can't see if he's smiling or frowning the way you can with most other people.

So really what George Lucas was doing when he added the line was applying his instincts as a visionary filmmaker to help viewers relate to Darth Vader better in a key scene where his emotions were quite literally concealed from the audience.

That's really the difference between an artist and a simple technician. The technician says "alright, we see his head turning back and forth. Now we have the shot of Vader looking at his master and his son." The artist goes a step beyond and considers what the audience needs to know, not just what they have to see.

It's a testament to George Lucas's profound insight that he went back and clarified a big scene that any ordinary technician would have let stand. George Lucas might love his fancy costumes and effects, but at the end of the day he's a storyteller at heart.

 

[JettDash]

You started off with "upset" and after people have explained why they don't like the changes you started shifting the goalposts to "mad".

You might not be discussing this in good faith.

I meant the two as synonyms.

If you see the two as having two different definitions, I don't understand getting mad or upset.

 

[Bronx-Man]

what if JettDash was George Lucas all along

 

[F!ReW!Re]

I love star wars. Grew up with the original trilogy as a kid.
I'm nowhere near fanatical though. Just think that except for the special effect enhancements, none of the changes actually enhance the film.
Like most of the CGI shit added in looks so out of place (transitions scenes in Moss Eisley, singer at Jabba's palace or young Anakin edited into RotJ).

I think the most annoying thing is to only be able to watch the unedited version if you download the despecialized edition.
Which I guess is what annoys most people; that we're being force fed these shitty changes.

I couldn't have cared less if George had brought out a "Director's Cut' where he added all of this shit in. It's the fact that no other versions are available...

 

[ScaryShark]

Here's what Steven Spielberg had to say about his own infamous version of E.T.:

Speaking for myself, you know, I tried this once and I lived to regret it. Not because of fan outrage, but simply because I was disappointed in myself. I was overly sensitive to some of the criticism ET got from parent groups when it was first released in '82 having to do with Eliot saying "Penis Breath" or the guns...and then there were certain brilliant, but rough around the edges close ups of ET that I always felt, if technology ever evolves to the point where I can do some facial enhancement for ET, I'd like to. So I did an ET pass for like the third release of the movie and it was okay for a while, but then I realized that what I had done was I had robbed the people who loved ET of their memories of ET. And I regretted that. (massive applause) And the only contrition that I could possibly do because I felt bad about that was, the only contrition that I really performed was when ET came out on DVD for the first time, I asked Universal, I didn't ask Universal, I said you're gonna do this, when you release this on DVD you have to come out for the same price of one DVD, you have to put two movies in the box and one movie will be the 1982 version and the other will be the digitally enhanced version. I'd like to ask you this, let's do a little poll here, cause I know we're coming out with the blu-ray of ET, if I just came out with one ET on blu-ray, 1982, would anyone object to that? (loud NO from the audience). Okay then, so be it. (huge applause)

http://allthingsfangirl.blogspot.com/2011/09/on-scene-raiders-of-lost-ark-30th.html

The biggest difference between E.T. and the OT is that E.T.'s unaltered version never went out of print and was attached to the special edition version. So even though plenty of people disliked the altered version, fans were always able to get the original and usually packed in with the changed version.

If the originals were out you'd never hear anyone complain about it again in a meaningful way.

 

[JettDash]

what if JettDash was George Lucas all along

I wish.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Honestly, I could give a crap about Lucas or anyone else making changes to these films.

What makes me mad is not releasing the originals.

Even Ridley Scott in his drunken senility released almost every version of Blade Runner on BD.

So, you do care?

 

[MMarston]

"Why are people mad about A? LOL get over it nerds"

"It's because X, Y and Z."

"LOL Y u mad though?"

This is what this thread reads like.

Getting flashbacks to that one Nier Automata thread on gaming-side

"Hey, do I really need to replay this game five times to get the true ending."

"No, it's not the same playthrough each time at all because X, Y, and Z."

"Fuck this. I'm not playing it anyway."

 

[danm999]

I meant the two as synonyms.

They are not.

If you see the two as having two different definitions, I don't understand getting mad or upset.

Because they can't buy the versions they like anymore.

 

[Doctor Shatner]

Maybe not the most egregious of the bunch, but holy shit the first time I heard this I couldn't stop laughing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yxuDU8gims

 

[ScaryShark]

Maybe not the most egregious of the bunch, but holy shit the first time I heard this I couldn't stop laughing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yxuDU8gims

Holy fuck. Just WHY.

 

[TheGameshark]

Honestly if they gave me proper boba fett voice I'd ignore a lot of the other shit George added.

 

[Moose Biscuits]

Yeah, OP, fuck people getting upset at things you're not personally interested or invested in, right?

How about coming to these people without an obvious bias, without calling them things like 'crazy'; that you just listen to their concerns, and understand, without judgement. Maybe have something called empathy.

Personally, I've not seen the SW films for a few years and had no idea of that extra 'NOO' inserted into ROTJ. That sounds silly as all get out.

 

[Nydius]

Maybe not the most egregious of the bunch, but holy shit the first time I heard this I couldn't stop laughing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yxuDU8gims

Reminds me of the various "All Changes" comparison videos that popped up a couple years ago that shows original release compared to latest blu-ray releases.

Here's the first "All Changes" comparison video for Episode 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNbzSH84mj0

 

[Slaythe]

He IS Anakin.

I really don't get the hate for that change. It was a nice way to bridge the two trilogies.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Yeah, OP, fuck people getting upset at things you're not personally interested or invested in, right?

How about coming to these people without an obvious bias, without calling them things like 'crazy'; that you just listen to their concerns, and understand, without judgement. Maybe have something called empathy.

Personally, I've not seen the SW films for a few years and had no idea of that extra 'NOO' inserted into ROTJ. That sounds silly as all get out.

It is done the most poor way it could've been.

 

[JettDash]

Yeah, OP, fuck people getting upset at things you're not personally interested or invested in, right?

How about coming to these people without an obvious bias, without calling them things like 'crazy'; that you just listen to their concerns, and understand, without judgement. Maybe have something called empathy.

Personally, I've not seen the SW films for a few years and had no idea of that extra 'NOO' inserted into ROTJ. That sounds silly as all get out.

I'm personally interested in it. As I said in the OP I own 1-6 in Blu-ray.

I also own The Force Awakens and Rouge One on Disney Movies.

 

[Shaanyboi]

The changes are dumb. I roll my eyes when I see them. I also roll my eyes at the anger that swirls around every aspect of them.

 

[DBT85]

I have the first 6 on Blu Ray and I'm fine with it. Yeah I'd rather a few bits hadn't been done but frankly not enough to whine about it all the time. Fuck, I even watch all 3 prequels.

It's not like I'm not a fan either, I've seen all of the animated series, played kotor, and I have like £800 worth of Star Wars UCS Lego on my dining table and in the middle of September I'll add the new (probably £600) Falcon.

I just can't get that worked up about that shit.

George can't fuck it up any more (and I'm under no delusion, he did fuck up in many many ways) . Let us all rejoice and thank him for his creation.

However, I would really appreciate it if Disney released a full release of the theatrical cuts just to make people happy.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Some of the changes do bother me but life's too short to get too irate over them.

Then again, I'm a younger fan so I haven't been watching the films for thirty/forty years. I'd buy the theatrical cuts if they were ever released on Blu-ray.

 

[Alienfan]

I don't think the changes are bad concepts, they were all just done on the cheap / rushed - the space stuff looks good. I hope Disney remaster the remasters some day

 

[davepoobond]

i remember being so excited for the special editions.

"Wow they improved them and added new stuff!"

i remember being very disappointed and not really knowing what was added... i think the explosions were the only noticeably improved thing to me

 

[Ushojax]

He IS Anakin.

I really don't get the hate for that change. It was a nice way to bridge the two trilogies.

Do you like the evil stare that doesn't match the eyeline of Ben and Yoda?

It doesn't even make sense why he looks like that, George insists he "died" on Mustafar but that's nonsense. He died on the Death Star in Luke's arms, as a shrivelled old man.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Well you see the thing most people don't realize about Darth Vader is that he's actually wearing a helmet, so you can't see if he's smiling or frowning the way you can with most other people.

So really what George Lucas was doing when he added the line was applying his instincts as a visionary filmmaker to help viewers relate to Darth Vader better in a key scene where his emotions were quite literally concealed from the audience.

That's really the difference between an artist and a simple technician. The technician says "alright, we see his head turning back and forth. Now we have the shot of Vader looking at his master and his son." The artist goes a step beyond and considers what the audience needs to know, not just what they have to see.

It's a testament to George Lucas's profound insight that he went back and clarified a big scene that any ordinary technician would have let stand. George Lucas might love his fancy costumes and effects, but at the end of the day he's a storyteller at heart.

Not sure if serious... in case of seriousness, not knowing what Vader thought in that moment made it a better scene, made the end of RotJ more surprising and have more impact. Everyone thought he would be cold and indifferent to his own son and later the picture became more clear that the emperor was the one interested in Luke Skywalker, so Vader was emotionally distant, a machine and was only carrying out his masters commands. The added scream diminishes the entire chain of the Luke wanting to convert his father story arc.

 

[paperboywriter]

people getting upset over star wars are loons in my book.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

There will always be people who seek out the "purest", most "correct" version of films and attempt to preserve/enjoy/share those versions with others. It's why you have folks who constantly seek out original prints of old movies, work on fan restorations, etc.. There's nothing particularly noteworthy about Star Wars purists except the sheer quantity, which is only a byproduct of the immense and virtually unparalleled scale of the fandom over the last four decades. Of course there's going to be significant amount of people who are both dedicated Star Wars fans and obsessed with getting the "true", original experience.

And honestly, just look at the gifs in this thread. These are damn near objectively worse "improvements" in every single case. It's not just about purism - he made the movies lesser, and regardless of whether the amount by which he did it is noticeable or problematic enough to other people, nothing is strange about being the person who is bothered by that. It's entirely acceptably for people to be upset about their favorite movies getting dozens of nonsensical tweaks and alterations that make for lesser quality film. Especially when George refused to make the original cut available in any quality level beyond that of a somewhat rough DVD transfer sourced from a Laserdisc master.

 

[deadlast]

He IS Anakin.

I really don't get the hate for that change. It was a nice way to bridge the two trilogies.

Why all the other ghosts old but him?

GL just went through changing shit for no reason, other than to try and force the prequels down the fans throats.
I have the special editions and the theatrical release on DVD. I like the cleaning up of shots, but I don't care for changing scenes.

 

[Zampano]

I don't really care about Star Wars but the special edition situation is awful. Mainly the fact that they're the only official option.

Usually if a director returns to a film to make changes they don't try to airbrush the original from history - Apocalypse Now, Alien, Aliens are good examples. You have a choice.

I would buy theatrical cuts in a heartbeat but won't spend a penny on those films in the currently available versions.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I don't consider myself a Star Wars fan but I do enjoy watching New Hope and Empire Strikes Back once in a while, I always go for the despecialized editions. Do the special editions completely ruin the films? No. But they are inferior and therefore fans are upset that the better versions aren't readily available on a modern format. Simple as that, there's nothing crazy about it.

 

[Glass Rebel]

OP cares so little he made a thread about it.

 

[Princess Viola]

I feel a lot of stuff in the Special Editions is non-offensive changes, although the biggest issue, for me, is the simple fact that the original unedited films aren't available. Which, quite frankly, is insulting to those who actually worked on these films but had their stuff replaced with CGI .

 

[GamerJM]

Individually each change isn't really anything to get too upset over, but collectively they fail pretty hard to do anything but lower the quality of the films.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

He IS Anakin.

I really don't get the hate for that change. It was a nice way to bridge the two trilogies.

It's a way to bridge the two trilogies, but not a nice one, because it makes absolutely no sense. Why did he spirit de-age but Obi-Wan's and Yoda's didn't? I know it's supposed to be him before he fell to the dark side, but why? The whole point was that Anakin was redeemed, despite that supposedly being impossible. The best I can parse from the implications is that old Anakin actually wasn't fully redeemed (so Luke was kind of wrong and kind of failed), but redeemed just enough that... I dunno, the ghost of his old self escaped the half-evil clutches of Darth Vader's spirit... or something? Even being generous and going with that, the whole thing is kind of nonsensical and clashes with the main themes and story beats of the movie anyway. To say nothing of the fact that why the fuck isn't Luke like "WTF?", lol.

I highly doubt George put that much thought into it anyway. It's all part of George's last minute "oh shit, I forgot these movies are supposed to actually connect to the old ones somehow" push he did with Revenge of the Sith (which many of these changes were rolled into the budget and production of, like Ian McDiarmid in ESB which at least made sense, despite unnecessary dialog changes and "improper" compositing). Ya know, like how in the final 5 minutes of the movie everyone is suddenly thrust into the exact place they occupy at the beginning of A New Hope, where they apparently remain still for the next 20 years. He really wasn't trying to hard with the Hayden* insert, it was just him going "here, this'll paper over the other dozen inconsistencies between the trilogy! Or something, whatever."

*(and of course, there's the other reason people hated it: ya know, Hayden. Some folks ain't particularly fond of him, fair or not)