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Apple can't take the heat, tells MS to pull ads
- Thread starter DogWelder
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longdi
Banned
Last time when it was IBM, Thinkpads are famous for being rugged super quality laptop workstations. That is why when Lenovo bought over IBM laptop business, they kept the Thinkpad brand and designs. I got one Centrino thinkpad under IBM that is almost 7 years, still can use even after many bumps. The design look 99% like the above! Duhhhhhh!
StoOgE said:PC's have more than one manufacturer. I find the Vaio line to be fucking sexy.
Mine looks a bit different than this (silver instead of black) and I prefer it's look to the iBooks.
I got a Vaio Z recently too, fucking sexiest computer ever:
Kind of a crap picture, but Macs aren't the only computers that can look good (and cost a shit ton of money).
Cant0na said:
This is why Apple can CRY SOME MOAR, you can't poke fun with ads like these and then cry when Microsoft responds. (Yes I know that the ad is now outdated, they will probably be forced to update it).
One fallacy I find in the criticism of Apple's Macbooks, is that instead of being compared to their competitors premium notebook PCs, the Macs are set against the competitions entry-level to consumer class products.
Example: The 13" Macbook Pro will be set against a Sony Vaio CS instead of the premium grade Vaio Z.
Point being, there are just as many notebook PCs in Best Buy which are "overpriced" as there are Macbooks. Once you step into the premium 15" mobile market, the prices on both sides of the fence are fairly parallel, and that isn't portrayed well.
At first the 17" MBP looks like it is way ahead of the 16 inch plus pack price-wise, but choose a notebook like the Sony VAIO FW, Dell's Studio XPS 16, or HP's HDX16t, and configure it to specs which are roughly the equivalent of the 17" MBP (~2.8GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, discreet graphics, 500GB HDD, 1080p-1200p LCD...), and you'll see that they're literally within hundreds of each other.
In the end, you see, Apple's pricing is right in with the average $ per box of the market segment it's set itself against. Apple's main shortcoming (to me) is the lack of a Blu-ray option.
OS preferences aside, I really see buying notebooks as I do buying cars. Yes, both of these new cars will get me where I want to go, just like two machines can house the same hardware, so it's the amenities that sway my decision. The design of the chassis, the keyboard, the screen, the OS, the customer support, etc. No one is always going to choose the cheapest of the two, when they have the money to do otherwise. If you are drawn to Apple's product, I don't care why, just buy it. I'll never own one, but you sure as hell can.
I think the commercials are brilliant, only because the average consumer doesn't have as much knowledge of the mobile world as I do. These people are on a budget which cuts out every Apple product except the Macbook. That isn't Apple's fault.
Example: The 13" Macbook Pro will be set against a Sony Vaio CS instead of the premium grade Vaio Z.
Point being, there are just as many notebook PCs in Best Buy which are "overpriced" as there are Macbooks. Once you step into the premium 15" mobile market, the prices on both sides of the fence are fairly parallel, and that isn't portrayed well.
At first the 17" MBP looks like it is way ahead of the 16 inch plus pack price-wise, but choose a notebook like the Sony VAIO FW, Dell's Studio XPS 16, or HP's HDX16t, and configure it to specs which are roughly the equivalent of the 17" MBP (~2.8GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, discreet graphics, 500GB HDD, 1080p-1200p LCD...), and you'll see that they're literally within hundreds of each other.
In the end, you see, Apple's pricing is right in with the average $ per box of the market segment it's set itself against. Apple's main shortcoming (to me) is the lack of a Blu-ray option.
OS preferences aside, I really see buying notebooks as I do buying cars. Yes, both of these new cars will get me where I want to go, just like two machines can house the same hardware, so it's the amenities that sway my decision. The design of the chassis, the keyboard, the screen, the OS, the customer support, etc. No one is always going to choose the cheapest of the two, when they have the money to do otherwise. If you are drawn to Apple's product, I don't care why, just buy it. I'll never own one, but you sure as hell can.
I think the commercials are brilliant, only because the average consumer doesn't have as much knowledge of the mobile world as I do. These people are on a budget which cuts out every Apple product except the Macbook. That isn't Apple's fault.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Cant0na said:
oh yeah. PC fanboys sure are more mature:
from the comments.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
quadriplegicjon said:
Thinking about quoting a youtube comment is funny.
Actually quoting a youtube comment...
Even merely reading them is like slipping sandpaper into your eye sockets.
Check out the Samsung NC10. Gorgeous netbook with a perfect keyboard... and yes, it doesn't have a keypad. Ignore the newer version though with its shitty speakers spoiling the look.Karakand said:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001O94FY8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Marty Chinn
Member
Karakand said:
Heh, that reminds me. When I was looking at my sister's MBP, I asked her, how do you hit page up and page down and she had no idea. How do you hit page up and page down on those things?
I love the new Safari and I like my iPhone. I would never buy an Apple desktop or laptop.
I want the best hardware.
I want bleeding edge.
I don't want to pay over the odds for less performance.
I don't want an alien OS.
I want application continuity from work to home.
I don't want to fiddle with formats.
I don't want to wait for the Mac version.
I want the option to be able to fix hardware myself.
I want the option to able to upgrade the hardware myself.
The question of aesthetics is mute because some brands look just as nice.
The minority always shout the loudest and the Apple are the minority. Microsoft is fine with them having their 10% share of the market, since it stops them getting another ridiculous fine...not in my beloved EU though <3.
What I find funny is people who feel the need to protect the honour of a $250bn corporation against attack from a smaller rival. It's good Apple are there, it's stops MS from being complacent but Apple are no threat to MS what so ever.
I want the best hardware.
I want bleeding edge.
I don't want to pay over the odds for less performance.
I don't want an alien OS.
I want application continuity from work to home.
I don't want to fiddle with formats.
I don't want to wait for the Mac version.
I want the option to be able to fix hardware myself.
I want the option to able to upgrade the hardware myself.
The question of aesthetics is mute because some brands look just as nice.
The minority always shout the loudest and the Apple are the minority. Microsoft is fine with them having their 10% share of the market, since it stops them getting another ridiculous fine...not in my beloved EU though <3.
What I find funny is people who feel the need to protect the honour of a $250bn corporation against attack from a smaller rival. It's good Apple are there, it's stops MS from being complacent but Apple are no threat to MS what so ever.
avaya said:
I agree with all your reasons for not using a Mac.
But I have a comment about your last point: when it comes to mindshare and brand image, MS is treating Apple like they are a threat.
that's why they started the "I'm a PC" and the laptop hunters ads in the first place. as a direct response and counterpoint to the Apple ads.
I've said many times before on Gaf. MS, having ~90% of OS marketshare, has zero reason to bring up Apple in their ads.
it's the Coke and Pepsi scenario. Coke is the market leader and never, never brings up Pespi. they just use branding ads, really. Pepsi, as the smaller company was the one doing comparisons and taking jabs at Coke in their ads (at least more so in the 80s).
Yet MS is behaving like Pepsi in these campaigns by referencing Apple. It suggests that MS is freaked out by how Apple has the "cool" image and MS is seemingly obsessed with taking that down.
Just thought I'd bring this up since this thread is theoretically about adverting and not just about old Mac v. PC debates.
You take care of a threat before it gets out of hand... I that's how marketing and PR works. You don't wait for something to get dangerous, you squash things as quickly as possible (while treading the anti-trust line lol).
Note, I am definitely not pro Microsoft, but in their ads, they are doing nothing wrong (except they do have to update their old ad, obviously).
Note, I am definitely not pro Microsoft, but in their ads, they are doing nothing wrong (except they do have to update their old ad, obviously).
Marty Chinn
Member
SnakeXs said:
I thought we tried that and all we got was Home and End functionality.
Team Jones
Member
Now that I own a Sony Vaio I've committed myself to only owning Sony Vaio's... they are sex!
*These pictures were a catch all of some my gadgets because GAF always has some kind of 'post your ... ' thread
*These pictures were a catch all of some my gadgets because GAF always has some kind of 'post your ... ' thread
Team Jones said:Now that I own a Sony Vaio I've committed myself to only owning Sony Vaio's... they are sex!
*These pictures were a catch all of some my gadgets because GAF always has some kind of 'post your ... ' thread
Great laptops, but get a laptop cooler, man. I had an FZ-290 and had the video card burn out. It was the 8800M GT, which was a flawed card and had overheating problems in Macbooks, Vaio's, everything, but eventually mine burned up after 16 months.
Heck, I'd advise anyone with a laptop to spend $20-30 and get a good laptop cooler from Newegg. They're cramming a high amount of heat into a small package and trying to dispurse it, sometimes the internal fans need help. But I have noticed that some Macbook Pro's I've used do get really hot when running graphically intensive stuff, so I'd definitely recommend a cooler when using those, if possible.
K.Jack said:
Look at you with your pragmatism. Get off the fence, hippie!
Seriously though, that's pretty much what's forgotten when people compare Apple's computers to PCs. Generally Apple make computers that don't really overlap with what's out there in the PC space and where they do, the prices are pretty much the same.
You aren't just comparing spec-to-spec. You've also got to take build quality and form factor and software into account too. I had to go Mac because no PC manufacturer builds an all-in-one like the iMac. I could get a noisy box with better specs for the same price, but that wasn't what I was after. And don't get me started on people who compare the Xeon-based Mac Pro workstations to budget Core 2-based gaming rigs and start crying about "$2000 Apple tax".
Ultimately, we're in a computer market that has never had so much brilliant choice for consumers of all budgets and all needs. We should be embracing that, not decrying anyone with different priorities as wrong.
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Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
KTallguy said:I got a Vaio Z recently too, fucking sexiest computer ever:
Kind of a crap picture, but Macs aren't the only computers that can look good (and cost a shit ton of money).
This is why Apple can CRY SOME MOAR, you can't poke fun with ads like these and then cry when Microsoft responds. (Yes I know that the ad is now outdated, they will probably be forced to update it).
Wallpaper source please?
Chiggs said:True story: Today, I went out shopping for a mini pc for my den. I had every intent of buying a Mac Mini. Excellent design + fairly beefy specs. At the Apple Store, one of the configured models that caught my eye was a 2.26ghz Core 2 Duo and 4GB of DDR3. The price? $1049.00!
WTF.
Not satisfied with the standard $599.99 or $799.99 models, I headed to Best Buy and demo'd a Gateway SX2800 slimline.
While not hideous, its design isn't as good as the Mini, and it's fairly bigger. However, the specs...
Quad Core (Q8200)
Vista 64 w/free Windows 7 upgrade
4GB DDR3 (expandable to 8)
DVD-RW
Intel x4500 (you can specify 32MB to 1GB)
HDMI out
PCI Xpress 16 slot for video upgrades
640GB HDD
Shitloads of USB 2.0 ports + 1 Firewire
Card readers galore
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/gateway-sx2800-01/4505-3118_7-33699400.html
Price: $509.00. Suffice to say, I walked out of the store with the machine in hand (posting from it now).
Quite frankly, a decently configured Mac Mini is the very definition of a rip-off (might as well go for the iMac), and I hope Apple either drops the price, or follows the rumors by phasing it out.
Kind of unfair to compare the mini to a computer that's six and a half times larger, but I agree that paying a grand for a mac mini would be stupid. The only logical choice is to buy the cheap one and upgrade the ram and HDD yourself. There's no real world difference between 2.0 and 2.2 ghz
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
I have a macbook....and an iPhone...but I still like Windows a lot.
Am I bisexual gaf?
Am I bisexual gaf?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That keyboard is amazing - the first thing I thought is that you've made some crazy Spectrum 48K mod on your laptop. I have to say I love it.KTallguy said:
Pristine_Condition
Member
KTallguy said:
Uh, the point is not that the ad is outdated. Even though it is.
The real point is that Microsoft's ad was deceptive from it's inception, (as proven by the 20 second point in the ad where their voicover claims a 13" MacBook "is $2000") and they've continued to try and deceive consumers with the ad without making the needed corrections. Microsoft's ad here was blatantly deceptive the day it aired.
To recap...Here's the ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysbi5v_p7Q4
At 20 seconds in to the video, Lauren says "This Mac is $2000" Only, it can't be a $2000 computer. That's a 13" Macbook. The 13" Macbook was never retailed at $2000. Even fully-loaded, the max you could spend at any time on that model was $1599, which is nowhere close to $2000, and nowhere close to the Microsoft cOO's claim of "LOL $100" either.
In a bit of camera bait-and-switch, THIS is the pricetag shown to back up Lauren's voiceover that the 13" Macbook "is $2000."
The price shown is for a 15" MacBookPRO, not the 13" MacBook that the commercial shows when Lauren says "This Mac is $2000."
So, the ad was always deceptive, not just after some Apple price cuts. And the Macbook shown in the ad when Lauren says "This Mac is $2000?" That Mac is either $1,024.99 or $1319.00 now.
That's at least $680.99 less than what Microsoft is showing in those ads, and as much as a $975.00 savings.
...
Judging by the COO of Microsoft's PR spin tactic of claiming it's only around "$100" when it's closer to more a $700-$900 deception in the ad, Microsoft fully intends on continuing to try to deceive the public with that ad.
Kevin Turner's comments were designed to switch the press' attention and consumers' attention away from the fact that they got called out by Apple because their ad is deceptive to consumers. It seems to be working, judging by the amount of idiots in this thread who want to talk about anything and everything but the FACTS surrounding the deceptive ad, or the spin tactics of Microsoft's Chief Operating Officer,.
This thread is almost 800 posts now, and I don't see anyone hammering Kevin Turner for being an obvious corporate asshat who apparently laughs at the fact that his company is lying to consumers in his ad. I don't see anyone hammering him for continuing to try and deceive when tries to minimize Apple's legitimate complaints about the ad when he claims "they took like $100 off or something," when the difference in the price Microsoft claims in the ad is as much as over $900.
In fact, Kevin Turner, instead of being concerned that his company got caught lying about another company in a major ad campaign, laughs it off, saying "It was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business," and "I did cartwheels down the hallway" when he was called about the deceptive ads.
For a Chief Operating Officer of a major corporation to have such a cavalier attitude in public about deceiving the public should be shocking...but there's hardly a word of scorn or even mild concern on NeoGAF.
Hell, the mods won't even change the thread title to reflect the facts. Instead, this thread continues to pander to the fanboys on both sides with their stupid petty OT arguments. I guess the mods want it that way?
I guess Microsoft's tactics are working. I guess they will continue to try and deceive the public with this ad and laugh in the face of honest business practices too. Nobody seems to care. They'll show you idiots something shiny to distract you, or fan the flames of your stupid fanboy war, and you'll all go the direction they want you to, instead of looking at what they are actually doing.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
We get it Pristine! They show the wrong model in the commercial. But honestly, it's hard to tell that that is a 13" model and not the 15" and they don't expressly say in the commercial that it is the 13" model, they just show it, inferring that it is a MacBook.
Steve Youngblood
Member
You sound like a fun guy to have at a party.Pristine_Condition said:
Phobophile
A scientist and gentleman in the manner of Batman.
I've never really noticed before or mentioned this, but holy fuck these juniors.Cant0na said:
Pristine_Condition
Member
Steve Youngblood said:
Yeah. Sorry for being on-topic. I'll try to post like a dipshit from now on. Good to see I've got plenty of examples in this thread to go by.
i got so many microsoft products yesterday:
vista home PREMIUM (64-bit)
office HOME
sidewinder x8 mouse
sidewinder x6 keyboard
flight simulator x deluxe
super ironic considering this thread, but yeah i actually felt pretty proud putting my money where my mouth is. :lol
vista home PREMIUM (64-bit)
office HOME
sidewinder x8 mouse
sidewinder x6 keyboard
flight simulator x deluxe
super ironic considering this thread, but yeah i actually felt pretty proud putting my money where my mouth is. :lol
jonnybryce
Member
LCfiner said:
Exactly. Any non-fanboy war comments are simply ignored to keep the fan warz going.
Hooray.
Pristine_Condition said:
Omg, post this 10 more times please. 9 isn't enough.
In the end, it doesn't bother me. Their message still holds true. Any people being swayed by these ads aren't going to remember or realize what Mac was flashed in their face for one second on the commercial, just the message that PCs are cheaper than Macs, which is true. Apple's whole campaign is lies and misleading, so who cares. This is a fuck up, but it's one fuck up. It's not like this campaign is built on lies.
Do you honestly think that any mainstream consumer watching the ad has any idea what size screen that is? I don't get why showing the incorrect size is such a big deal to you. The price drop, sure. But they never say "THIS IS A 13 INCH SCREEN FOR $1999" When they show the price tag, it says 15.4. That's what matters.
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